Ziemer is a great leader. I have a ton of faith that he’s the right voice to right the ship in the locker room after last year’s fiasco.
I was actually unimpressed with him as a Captain during the World Championships last year, but when he came back to the Gophers during the second half of the season, he really seemed to emerge as a leader.
Ziemer is a great leader. I have a ton of faith that he’s the right voice to right the ship in the locker room after last year’s fiasco.
I was actually unimpressed with him as a Captain during the World Championships last year, but when he came back to the Gophers during the second half of the season, he really seemed to emerge as a leader.
Curious on why you were not impressed with Ziemer being the captain during the World Championships last year.
Ziemer is a great leader. I have a ton of faith that he’s the right voice to right the ship in the locker room after last year’s fiasco.
I was actually unimpressed with him as a Captain during the World Championships last year, but when he came back to the Gophers during the second half of the season, he really seemed to emerge as a leader.
Curious on why you were not impressed with Ziemer being the captain during the World Championships last year.
Based the previous couple of years, watching McGroarty and Leonard go out and setting the tone with their play, edge, and attitude --- I didn't see that from Ziemer. Its possible his style is just different and it was always there, but it just wasn't as apparent to me.
However, as I indicated, I did see that more from him in the Gophers second half.
Based the previous couple of years, watching McGroarty and Leonard go out and setting the tone with their play, edge, and attitude --- I didn't see that from Ziemer
part of it is, the back to back WJC gold teams just had a much higher level of talent and cohesiveness. Those NTDP cohorts were really tight on and off the ice, something I think the NTDP is starting to miss w/ these last 1-2 years
So now we are to the point of questioning our captain? IMHO, Ziemer was one of the few players last year that busted his ass every game. He has been a leader at every level. I had to check to see if I was on Gopherhole or Whioux Sports.
Looking down from my High Horse
Morality Police
Not very objective
For the record I’m not questioning him at all. I just think McGroarty and Leonard are a slightly different level. Captain often doesn’t mean best player on the team.
Not sure why this is even a conversation, the Wisconsin sweep at home told me all I needed to know about our leadership group. All three guys w/ letters for this upcoming year (+Hendrickson) drove the bus that weekend
I still suspect that there was some sort of mutual agreement given the amount of time it took Coyle to pull the trigger. Totally possible Coyle offered Bob the choice between staying with a bunch of stipulations or leaving and taking the check.
Motzko sold his house near the cities before last season even began and his other home is much farther away. So I tend to think this was likely to happen anyhow no matter how last season went. IDK if he decided to do that after the "unexpected" (debatable lol) departure of some of the guys from the 24-25 team but if I had to guess with zero inside info that probably was part of it (along with the NCAA changes that affect recruiting etc).
Re: the new recruiting landscape. Bob picking up Finn McLaughlin and nobody else from CHL last offseason seemed to be (1) a bit of a panic move, and (2) a sign that we got caught w/ our pants down on CHL recruiting.
As if we had to do something rather than nothing, but Bob had been unprepared to jump into the CHL mix so we just scooped up somebody who had been drafted and previously committed to another power program. Without doing our due diligence. That's my impression at least.
Obvs the days of us only recruiting Minnesotans are long gone and Wood was a slam-dunk Canadian pickup, but he played 2 years in Hockey East. Just didn't seem like we had a good handle on CHL recruiting whatsoever, aside from the very last batch of Bob commits. Even then, those guys were mostly still US/Minnesota kids who happened to play in CHL this past season.
Yeah that was a big part of why change was needed as well as the need for a GM to handle the player relation side of things (ie not get caught of guard by ppl leaving). It just lightens the load of an already stressful difficult job that has a ton of different responsibilities.
The 2023 B1G championship is currently on Big Ten network and I have two conclusions. One, this game was so winnable. Two, I hate to say it but with the way we played Michigan deserved to win that game. The amount of missed opportunities, over-handling of the puck, and sloppy play by the Gophers is insane. Michigan did what it took to frustrate the Gophers and we played right into their hands. Pitlick had that sweet goal. He also had what feels like 1,000 drop passes to absolutely no one lol. But man, watching those two rosters duke it out will never get old.
If the refs called Portillo for kicking the posts off 11 times who knows how that game ends. But yeah that also wasn't the best game the Gophers played that year.
Two, I hate to say it but with the way we played Michigan deserved to win that game. The amount of missed opportunities, over-handling of the puck, and sloppy play by the Gophers is insane. Michigan did what it took to frustrate the Gophers and we played right into their hands.
Having rewatched both the 2022 and 2023 B1G title games countless times, I've concluded that although the final scores were identical, the 2023 game was a much bigger dud than 2022 in hindsight.
Why I feel the 2022 game had better vibes despite the loss:
(1) Nelson scored off the opening draw and Mariucci exploded. (In 2023 our top line actually came close to doing it too w/ a beautiful tic-tac-toe set play, Snuggerud hit the post)
(2) Even though we were down 4-1 after 2 periods in 2022, half of Michigan's 4 goals were fluky bounces and the other half were decent skill plays. In '23 we let McGroarty copy-paste the same exact goal 2x in 2min, then we let Duke do the same in the 3rd to give the game away. After gaining the lead <2min into that 3rd.
(3) For the entire 3rd in 2022 Michigan was on the ropes, if you rewatch that game's tape we were constantly generating grade-A chances even during the (BS) 5min major. In 2023 once Michigan went up 4-3 they just sat back and salted the game away, it was a snoozefest after that 2nd Duke goal. I remember how frustrating it was to see us get bottled up in our own zone for long stretches in the 2023 game, something which almost never happened that entire season.
(4) At the time, 2022 wasn't a repeat of the previous year's disappointment; expectations were lower coming in, partly because we hadn't swept & won 3of4 vs. Michigan in the 2021-22 regular season. And we had just won the 2021 B1G tourney so it was kinda like "eh can't win it every year I guess 🤷♂️"
Two, I hate to say it but with the way we played Michigan deserved to win that game. The amount of missed opportunities, over-handling of the puck, and sloppy play by the Gophers is insane. Michigan did what it took to frustrate the Gophers and we played right into their hands.
Having rewatched both the 2022 and 2023 B1G title games countless times, I've concluded that although the final scores were identical, the 2023 game was a much bigger dud than 2022 in hindsight.
Why I feel the 2022 game had better vibes despite the loss:
(1) Nelson scored off the opening draw and Mariucci exploded. (In 2023 our top line actually came close to doing it too w/ a beautiful tic-tac-toe set play, Snuggerud hit the post)
(2) Even though we were down 4-1 after 2 periods in 2022, half of Michigan's 4 goals were fluky bounces and the other half were decent skill plays. In '23 we let McGroarty copy-paste the same exact goal 2x in 2min, then we let Duke do the same in the 3rd to give the game away. After gaining the lead <2min into that 3rd.
(3) For the entire 3rd in 2022 Michigan was on the ropes, if you rewatch that game's tape we were constantly generating grade-A chances even during the (BS) 5min major. In 2023 once Michigan went up 4-3 they just sat back and salted the game away, it was a snoozefest after that 2nd Duke goal. I remember how frustrating it was to see us get bottled up in our own zone for long stretches in the 2023 game, something which almost never happened that entire season.
(4) At the time, 2022 wasn't a repeat of the previous year's disappointment; expectations were lower coming in, partly because we hadn't swept & won 3of4 vs. Michigan in the 2021-22 regular season. And we had just won the 2021 B1G tourney so it was kinda like "eh can't win it every year I guess 🤷♂️"
I could not understand how the Gophers could lose back to back Big Ten tournaments at their home rink
Not a completely outrageous goal by any means but...
That's 10 more wins from last year's team. Should be the minimum expected.
I think it's too early to make that call. Ludtke is their 5th or 6th highest returning scorer and many fans here don't expect him to get significant ice time. DiPasquo has to have better numbers although Strahl could push him for time? Their PP was impressive last year but the PK was abysmal - while the PK can only go up it's too early to claim the new staff will turn it into a strength. The NC SOS is also no slouch.
The Gophers team defense last year was horribad. Not just the defenseman. Couldn't seem to gain any sustained attack in the O zone. Of course the goaltending stats are going to be bad.
Not a completely outrageous goal by any means but...
That's 10 more wins from last year's team. Should be the minimum expected.
I think it's too early to make that call. Ludtke is their 5th or 6th highest returning scorer and many fans here don't expect him to get significant ice time. DiPasquo has to have better numbers although Strahl could push him for time? Their PP was impressive last year but the PK was abysmal - while the PK can only go up it's too early to claim the new staff will turn it into a strength. The NC SOS is also no slouch.
The Gophers team defense last year was horribad. Not just the defenseman. Couldn't seem to gain any sustained attack in the O zone. Of course the goaltending stats are going to be bad.
Without DiPasquo, last year could have been much much worse. He kept us in a lot of games. Motzko just kept giving Airey chance after chance.
Not a completely outrageous goal by any means but...
That's 10 more wins from last year's team. Should be the minimum expected.
I think it's too early to make that call. Ludtke is their 5th or 6th highest returning scorer and many fans here don't expect him to get significant ice time. DiPasquo has to have better numbers although Strahl could push him for time? Their PP was impressive last year but the PK was abysmal - while the PK can only go up it's too early to claim the new staff will turn it into a strength. The NC SOS is also no slouch.
The Gophers team defense last year was horribad. Not just the defenseman. Couldn't seem to gain any sustained attack in the O zone. Of course the goaltending stats are going to be bad.
Without DiPasquo, last year could have been much much worse. He kept us in a lot of games. Motzko just kept giving Airey chance after chance.
people keep saying LDP was a great goalie for us last season but I'm not so sure. We only won 11 games, so how many did he steal for us? Denver, maybe Wisco game 1 at home, any others? I guess maybe the 3-2 W @ Yost as well, but I don't remember.
To be clear, obviously our team had much more glaring issues; I am not a goaltending expert; and I mean this entirely on a statistical / technical level. Certainly seems like a standup guy, and I'm 100% fine with constructing rosters in the mold of "talented skaters + 'good enough' goalie".
Di Pasquo stood on his head for long stretches of last season. Putting up a .910 playing behind last year’s d core is nothing short of a miracle. Excited to see what he can do behind the new and improved blue line.
Not a completely outrageous goal by any means but...
That's 10 more wins from last year's team. Should be the minimum expected.
I think it's too early to make that call. Ludtke is their 5th or 6th highest returning scorer and many fans here don't expect him to get significant ice time. DiPasquo has to have better numbers although Strahl could push him for time? Their PP was impressive last year but the PK was abysmal - while the PK can only go up it's too early to claim the new staff will turn it into a strength. The NC SOS is also no slouch.
The Gophers team defense last year was horribad. Not just the defenseman. Couldn't seem to gain any sustained attack in the O zone. Of course the goaltending stats are going to be bad.
Without DiPasquo, last year could have been much much worse. He kept us in a lot of games. Motzko just kept giving Airey chance after chance.
people keep saying LDP was a great goalie for us last season but I'm not so sure. We only won 11 games, so how many did he steal for us? Denver, maybe Wisco game 1 at home, any others? I guess maybe the 3-2 W @ Yost as well, but I don't remember.
To be clear, obviously our team had much more glaring issues; I am not a goaltending expert; and I mean this entirely on a statistical / technical level. Certainly seems like a standup guy, and I'm 100% fine with constructing rosters in the mold of "talented skaters + 'good enough' goalie".
when you only win 11 games, it's rather hard to steal many. Goalie analytics and xG at the college level are poor and only uses 6 different shot locations, which is far too few. He has pretty poor stats against the high danger chances supposedly, and has a lower fraction of his shots that are from high danger places, however some of that is just sheer volume as we had the 4th worst Corsi percentage in the entire country last year and the worst PK in the country, so that skews your goalies numbers a bit.
I'd say he's a good college goalie. Were times he was lights out and times he had bad games. Airey was worse, but also did not play other than as a backup after the flub he had vs PSU (after he was pretty solid against them in the 1st half series).
I don't really think looking at how many wins a goalie stole is the best way of looking at this. He def stole wins vs North Dakota, Denver, Michigan, Wisconsin, and the SO win vs Michigan State off the top of my head (so like half the teams' wins lmfao) but a better way to look at this is how many goals above expected he saved regardless of whether the team won, lost, or "tied". He definitely has some games where he gave up more goals than expected but the reverse is also true. There's also limitations to that data because it doesn't factor in passing (cross ice and behind the net passes have a much higher chance of scoring, whereas I think xG is only factoring in the type of shot and its location). Fatigue is also another thing, if the puck is in your zone more often then eventually it's gonna take a toll physically which also affects the mental. Goalies don't only have to react to the shots they save but also shots that go wide or get blocked. With butterfly goaltending being the norm that means you're basically going down on your knees for every shot attempt. It's also worth noting that once Motzko finally stopped playing Airey that doubled his workload and fatigue becomes more of an issue in the second of back to back games.
I do think LDP is better than any goalie I can think of in a while for the Gophers, he's better than LaFontaine or Close, for Lucia you'd have to go back to Wilcox. The biggest knock on LDP imo is that he had some really bad clunker games where he let in some weird goals but that's just part of the gig.
however some of that is just sheer volume as we had the 4th worst Corsi percentage in the entire country last year and the worst PK in the country, so that skews your goalies numbers a bit.
Lol I almost forgot how bad the PK was 🤣. That system was absolutely atrocious and adds to my argument about the passing, just think about how many high danger passes that system allowed and how the expected goals system (as it currently exists) can't really capture it. If the PK was mediocre instead of atrocious his numbers would've been much better across the board.
I don't really think looking at how many wins a goalie stole is the best way of looking at this. He def stole wins vs North Dakota, Denver, Michigan, Wisconsin, and the SO win vs Michigan State off the top of my head (so like half the teams' wins lmfao) but a better way to look at this is how many goals above expected he saved regardless of whether the team won, lost, or "tied". He definitely has some games where he gave up more goals than expected but the reverse is also true. There's also limitations to that data because it doesn't factor in passing (cross ice and behind the net passes have a much higher chance of scoring, whereas I think xG is only factoring in the type of shot and its location). Fatigue is also another thing, if the puck is in your zone more often then eventually it's gonna take a toll physically which also affects the mental. Goalies don't only have to react to the shots they save but also shots that go wide or get blocked. With butterfly goaltending being the norm that means you're basically going down on your knees for every shot attempt. It's also worth noting that once Motzko finally stopped playing Airey that doubled his workload and fatigue becomes more of an issue in the second of back to back games.
I do think LDP is better than any goalie I can think of in a while for the Gophers, he's better than LaFontaine or Close, for Lucia you'd have to go back to Wilcox. The biggest knock on LDP imo is that he had some really bad clunker games where he let in some weird goals but that's just part of the gig.
however some of that is just sheer volume as we had the 4th worst Corsi percentage in the entire country last year and the worst PK in the country, so that skews your goalies numbers a bit.
Lol I almost forgot how bad the PK was 🤣. That system was absolutely atrocious and adds to my argument about the passing, just think about how many high danger passes that system allowed and how the expected goals system (as it currently exists) can't really capture it. If the PK was mediocre instead of atrocious his numbers would've been much better across the board.
Interested to see what PK Martin installs. Whatever system Miller had going wasn’t it.
After the Tampa Turmoil Martin talked about how it is hard to transition back to being aggressive after going into a shell.
My sense is Steve Miller is a great coach but perhaps his strategy hasn’t moved with the times and Martin will bring a fresh perspective. Talent also helps and it’s easy to have a strong PK when you roll out Faber and Ryan Johnson.
I don't really think looking at how many wins a goalie stole is the best way of looking at this. He def stole wins vs North Dakota, Denver, Michigan, Wisconsin, and the SO win vs Michigan State off the top of my head (so like half the teams' wins lmfao) but a better way to look at this is how many goals above expected he saved regardless of whether the team won, lost, or "tied". He definitely has some games where he gave up more goals than expected but the reverse is also true. There's also limitations to that data because it doesn't factor in passing (cross ice and behind the net passes have a much higher chance of scoring, whereas I think xG is only factoring in the type of shot and its location). Fatigue is also another thing, if the puck is in your zone more often then eventually it's gonna take a toll physically which also affects the mental. Goalies don't only have to react to the shots they save but also shots that go wide or get blocked. With butterfly goaltending being the norm that means you're basically going down on your knees for every shot attempt. It's also worth noting that once Motzko finally stopped playing Airey that doubled his workload and fatigue becomes more of an issue in the second of back to back games.
I do think LDP is better than any goalie I can think of in a while for the Gophers, he's better than LaFontaine or Close, for Lucia you'd have to go back to Wilcox. The biggest knock on LDP imo is that he had some really bad clunker games where he let in some weird goals but that's just part of the gig.
however some of that is just sheer volume as we had the 4th worst Corsi percentage in the entire country last year and the worst PK in the country, so that skews your goalies numbers a bit.
Lol I almost forgot how bad the PK was 🤣. That system was absolutely atrocious and adds to my argument about the passing, just think about how many high danger passes that system allowed and how the expected goals system (as it currently exists) can't really capture it. If the PK was mediocre instead of atrocious his numbers would've been much better across the board.
on 1st bold, yeah that's what CHN does and his metrics are pretty mediocre (-4.7 GSAA). You are correct they do not have factors adjusting for rebounds, cross ice passing, etc, which is why I included our terrible PK and shot share, which often are signs you are not controlling play and giving up looks (he gets no credit when someone misses the net; kind of wild, but he and Airey faced 2388 shot attempts against with 1218 on net with 574 blocks, 51% on net and 24% blocked. for context we took 1718 total shot attempts last year). Lots of added time to be on and locked on. college hockey tracking isn't great yet, but is something to go off of.
Think we'll see more this year on your 2nd bold. The team defense and puck control will be dramatically better this year. That's always been the knock on Closer is that the teams ahead of him were dominant. Don't know if that's quite true for Laffer's Richter year.
That all said, we'll see if he answers the bell. Strahl looks to be a much more solid tender who will push him much more
In the latest podcast Ziemer talked about how some alumni are back and working out with the boys in the summer. Assuming it’s guys like Knies, LaCombe, Snuggerud, Faber who I know come back in the offseason.
Does anyone know if we still do a pro camp in August or something? I know we did for the longest time under Lucia and can’t remember if it continued under Motzko. Would be a very valuable thing to have players of Knies, Comber, Snuggy, Fabes back hanging around the team as they trickle in for first semester. Not to mention August is the time most recruits are shown around. Would go a long ways in recruiting.
In the latest podcast Ziemer talked about how some alumni are back and working out with the boys in the summer. Assuming it’s guys like Knies, LaCombe, Snuggerud, Faber who I know come back in the offseason.
In the latest podcast Ziemer talked about how some alumni are back and working out with the boys in the summer. Assuming it’s guys like Knies, LaCombe, Snuggerud, Faber who I know come back in the offseason.
Vanek did this his whole career, IIRC.
Most Gopher pros do. Helps that a lot of them are Minnesotan. But even Haula and Vanek like you mentioned as well.
Think we'll see more this year on your 2nd bold. The team defense and puck control will be dramatically better this year. That's always been the knock on Closer is that the teams ahead of him were dominant. Don't know if that's quite true for Laffer's Hobey (*Richter) year.
2020-21 was actually Bob's highest win% season, our team / overall stats for that year were elite across the board. See below
Highlights + our national rank for each stat (per game unless otherwise stated):
T-2nd most goals-for (3.8; #1 UND scored 3.9)
T-6th fewest goals against (2.1; right behind a 3 way tie at #3/2.0)
5th best team shooting%
6th best team save%
5th most SH goals-for
11th best PK%
Starting off 10-0 plus that one weekend vs. ASU (total goals were 20-2) probably helped keep us on top for most counting stats. Covid cancels mostly took weaker teams (PSU, OSU) off our schedule, so we played more games vs. the stronger half of B1G than some of our conference-mates did.
Think we'll see more this year on your 2nd bold. The team defense and puck control will be dramatically better this year. That's always been the knock on Closer is that the teams ahead of him were dominant. Don't know if that's quite true for Laffer's Hobey (*Richter) year.
2020-21 was actually Bob's highest win% season, our team / overall stats for that year were elite across the board. See below
Highlights + national rank in each stat (per game):
T-2nd most goals-for (3.8; #1 UND had 3.9)
T-6th best goals-against (2.1; right behind a 3 way tie at #3/2.0)
5th-best team shooting%
6th-best team save%
5th most SH goals-for
11th best PK%
The 10-0 start, plus that one weekend vs. ASU (20-2 total goals) probably all helped us stay on top in the counting stats that year. Covid cancellations mostly impacted the weaker teams on our schedule, so we played more of our games against the stronger half of B1G.
they also lost 12-2 in a weekend at home to wisconsin and got swept at home by notre dame. the big ten was bad that year outside of Cole Caufield. was the year schedules were fucky and half the teams played very few games (with a slew that played none). don't get me wrong, the team was good.
personally i think the close argument that the teams were just really good is dumb and lazy, but we rehash that one every year. he outplayed laffer the year laffer left midseason (though debate how much of that was him being torn to sign). He gets the wrap because of how each of his 3 seasons ended, imo, particularly because of the soft one he gave up against QU and the couple against BU.
and thanks for the correction in writing richter instead of hobey. was what i meant
aaaanyway, will be a much better crew in front of LDP this fall. Just need whichever goalie it is this fall to be solid and peak in spring a la Denver and this team can be very, very dangerous
After the Tampa Turmoil Martin talked about how it is hard to transition back to being aggressive after going into a shell.
My sense is Steve Miller is a great coach but perhaps his strategy hasn’t moved with the times and Martin will bring a fresh perspective. Talent also helps and it’s easy to have a strong PK when you roll out Faber and Ryan Johnson.
I vaguely recall our PK used to be much more aggressive before Miller came in. Like back when our main PKers up front were Meyers-Nelson and Walker-McLaughlin.
Was Raboin running our PK back then? Don't think it was Stu Bickel, he wasn't around super long.
(1) they also lost 12-2 in a weekend at home to wisconsin and got swept at home by notre dame. (2) the big ten was bad that year outside of Cole Caufield.
(1) Eh, I feel like Denver (+UMD back in the day) has always had a few series go sideways like that every single year where they end up winning a natty. That year we swept Michigan w/ all those top-5 draft picks, and we got our revenge against Wisconsin when it mattered.
(2) IMO it's basically impossible to tell whether B1G was weak or strong that year. 3 teams got tourney bids (4 if you count Notre Dame, who was originally going to replace Michigan but then got covid as well. Man that season really was a cluster lol) but only 2 B1G teams got to play. Happy to admit that Wisconsin sucked, although we've lost to a weaker Bemidji team more recently despite us having an objectively great roster.
But I'd think our first-round smackdown on Omaha counts for something. Mankato just had our number, so that game doesn't tell us anything about B1G's overall strength 😆
More seriously, both us and Michigan ran with pretty similar / comparable rosters the next season (2021-22) and both teams finished top-5 in pairwise with a Frozen Four appearance. IMO that shows B1G was most likely a decently strong league the year before.
Think we'll see more this year on your 2nd bold. The team defense and puck control will be dramatically better this year. That's always been the knock on Closer is that the teams ahead of him were dominant. Don't know if that's quite true for Laffer's Hobey (*Richter) year.
2020-21 was actually Bob's highest win% season, our team / overall stats for that year were elite across the board. See below
Highlights + our national rank for each stat (per game unless otherwise stated):
T-2nd most goals-for (3.8; #1 UND scored 3.9)
T-6th fewest goals against (2.1; right behind a 3 way tie at #3/2.0)
5th best team shooting%
6th best team save%
5th most SH goals-for
11th best PK%
Starting off 10-0 plus that one weekend vs. ASU (total goals were 20-2) probably helped keep us on top for most counting stats. Covid cancels mostly took weaker teams (PSU, OSU) off our schedule, so we played more games vs. the stronger half of B1G than some of our conference-mates did.
If you want a real kicker, the 2020-21 season is technically the best Gopher hockey season ever (by win %). I was shocked to see we’ve never had a season above .800 but it’s true.
If you want a real kicker, the 2020-21 season is technically the best Gopher hockey season ever (by win %). I was shocked to see we’ve never had a season above .800 but it’s true.
Semi related, this reminded me of a very funny stat from Gopher hockey's distant past.
USC (Trojans, not Cocks) just so happens to be one of like, <5 collegiate men's ice hockey teams with a winning all-time record vs. the Gophers through multiple games. While there are a bunch of teams who are 1-0 against us all-time, almost nobody has been able to consistently beat us a majority of the time over multiple games / seasons.
I believe the last time we faced USC in men's ice hockey was during WW2 or shortly before.
@mikeeruzione11 fantastic is a strong word. He was above average. You want to watch Brian Bischel at notre dame that guy stole games like no ones business.
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24131129/gallery_image.JPG "Hey_Sioux_Suck")
