Given the lines from above (or adjust as you see fit):
Kvasnicka-Mooney-Ziemer
Hendrickson-Moe-Cullen
Moore-Clark-Ludtke
Katz-Townsend-Pritchard
---------------------------------
Is that top line (or any combination) a Big Ten Championship / Frozen Four caliber of line?
Ziemer had a fantastic season, Mooney showed flashes, stuff to like about some of the others, newcomers are always unknowns, but it seems like light years from Knies / Cooley / Snuggerud --- which is an all time great line, but still.
But compare that to the top lines from Michigan, MSU, and PSU this year ---- still seems lacking in firepower.
Pahlsson hasn't given the team much. He's a good skater but not much more.
Speaking of which, Clark has some vertical speed, but he's undersized, loses puck battles, and can't score. These are the kind of holes in a lineup that equate to losses.
i like how hard Clark skates, but the kid needs to finish checks and battle. Fine bottom 6 player but that kind of thing bothers me so much when you can easily finish a check which adds exponentially to your teams forecheck and they pull drive bys. He’s not the only one guilty of it but when Mooney is finishing checks at a higher clip than guys who should be effort players, that’s a problem
Given the lines from above (or adjust as you see fit):
Kvasnicka-Mooney-Ziemer
Hendrickson-Moe-Cullen
Moore-Clark-Ludtke
Katz-Townsend-Pritchard
---------------------------------
Is that top line (or any combination) a Big Ten Championship / Frozen Four caliber of line?
Ziemer had a fantastic season, Mooney showed flashes, stuff to like about some of the others, newcomers are always unknowns, but it seems like light years from Knies / Cooley / Snuggerud --- which is an all time great line, but still.
But compare that to the top lines from Michigan, MSU, and PSU this year ---- still seems lacking in firepower.
Michigans top line (listed) is Hughes (24 year old undrafted), Perron (21 year old 3rd round), and Moldenauer (21 year old 3rd round).
MSU Stramel (21 year old 1st), martone (19 year old 1st), Russell (24 year old undrafted).
Yes you can have a top line like that (though I’d probably argue you balance differently).
the problem is that top line is currently 18 (Mooney), freshly 20 (Ziemer) and 18 (Kvasnicka or Cullen)
it’s the same problem of the entire team this year is they’re young or the old guys are not good enough to carry play (Clark, Pahlsson, Ludkte, Falloon, etc).
If you’re rolling all top line talent it is fine (part of why a Ziemer, Mooney, Cullen line would probably produce just fine), but almost everyone who’s really up there has some old guys who are really lighting it up and we have none of those (which is why the approach to the portal is so damn mind boggling from Bob when you say we want to get older and heavier, that doesn’t need to be a 4 year process and you don’t solve it bringing in Katz next year or expecting the above mentioned older players to turn into those guys).
secondarily, those teams kill you with depth and multiple lines who can hurt you. The line chart listed is still not there from a depth standpoint and is part of why I’d be fine shuttling in more bodies who are older to fill. That entire bottom line plus Clark can all be scratching and fighting to fill the bottom 6. no reason to have it be all freshmen and Sophs when you can bring in 22-24 year old jrs and srs with mn ties to fill those minutes, hit and put pressure on teams (it’s why for every martone and lee you need some shoudys and mannistos)
this is also why when Bob says we’re young but people cite the average age, it’s just not an apples to apples move. I don’t like him playing the card because he chose this approach, but there’s a reason why all our young lines are getting hammered by the top big ten teams. And when you look at it in the context of the age of lamb-Mooney-Ziemer, their talent is on par, you just can’t do it with only that line when you see they’re also still significantly younger than those 2 teams top lines and minute eaters
Is that top line (or any combination) a Big Ten Championship / Frozen Four caliber of line?
Ziemer had a fantastic season, Mooney showed flashes, stuff to like about some of the others, newcomers are always unknowns, but it seems like light years from Knies / Cooley / Snuggerud --- which is an all time great line, but still.
Two things to keep in mind. First, Cooley and Snuggerud were part of a generational NTDP cohort, which combined with COVID 5th years and the portal to create the conditions for the blue bloods’ resurgence starting in 2020. Second, our D corps struggles mightily to get the top line going.
2? That gives us 3 d-men.Max Burkholder (CC) and or Tanner Henricks (SCSU) are the dream portal dmen. Burkholder is a Chaska guy who played with the Gopher cohort of Koster, Pitlick, Snuggerud, Rinzel. Henricks played at Shattuck with Whipple and Ziemer and was Rombach’s partner in Lincoln.
it’s and. Definitely and and not or. They need 2 experienced guys. It is not ok to keep putting rud or begley on the ice and McLaughlin a healthy scratch at his best right now (I’d be real ok with telling to go back to jr as he looks scared of making mistakes right now)
not saying those are the guys, but you need 2
2? That gives us 3 d-men.Max Burkholder (CC) and or Tanner Henricks (SCSU) are the dream portal dmen. Burkholder is a Chaska guy who played with the Gopher cohort of Koster, Pitlick, Snuggerud, Rinzel. Henricks played at Shattuck with Whipple and Ziemer and was Rombach’s partner in Lincoln.
it’s and. Definitely and and not or. They need 2 experienced guys. It is not ok to keep putting rud or begley on the ice and McLaughlin a healthy scratch at his best right now (I’d be real ok with telling to go back to jr as he looks scared of making mistakes right now)
not saying those are the guys, but you need 2
I’m good with whipple and Rombach (he has improved dramatically despite how hard people are on him) staying. Gruba is fine as a 2nd-3rd pair with someone mobile. Add 2 plus Harper and Grimes.
i get people hate on Rombach and acknowledge the flaw of the stat , but he and Whipple are the only 2 defensemen who are not minuses in +/- on the year
if people want to run gruba off, I get it. But trying to bring in 3-4 portal guys is going to be tough
5 in in some fashion would be my feeling of however you want to do that, though I wouldn’t count on Phillips being one of those
No clue what Phillips brings next year. Feel like we have to bring him in or he bolts. Seems penciled into the 7th d role already
Thats mainly a result of playing third pairing minutes against bottom six players while mittlestadt and his partner (Gruba recently) eat up 30 mins a night. Rombach could eventually be fine anchoring a dynamic Dman and improve but I can’t think of many moments where he stood out in a good way.2? That gives us 3 d-men.Max Burkholder (CC) and or Tanner Henricks (SCSU) are the dream portal dmen. Burkholder is a Chaska guy who played with the Gopher cohort of Koster, Pitlick, Snuggerud, Rinzel. Henricks played at Shattuck with Whipple and Ziemer and was Rombach’s partner in Lincoln.
it’s and. Definitely and and not or. They need 2 experienced guys. It is not ok to keep putting rud or begley on the ice and McLaughlin a healthy scratch at his best right now (I’d be real ok with telling to go back to jr as he looks scared of making mistakes right now)
not saying those are the guys, but you need 2
I’m good with whipple and Rombach (he has improved dramatically despite how hard people are on him) staying. Gruba is fine as a 2nd-3rd pair with someone mobile. Add 2 plus Harper and Grimes.
i get people hate on Rombach and acknowledge the flaw of the stat , but he and Whipple are the only 2 defensemen who are not minuses in +/- on the year
if people want to run gruba off, I get it. But trying to bring in 3-4 portal guys is going to be tough
5 in in some fashion would be my feeling of however you want to do that, though I wouldn’t count on Phillips being one of those
Thats mainly a result of playing third pairing minutes against bottom six players while mittlestadt and his partner (Gruba recently) eat up 30 mins a night. Rombach could eventually be fine anchoring a dynamic Dman and improve but I can’t think of many moments where he stood out in a good way.2? That gives us 3 d-men.Max Burkholder (CC) and or Tanner Henricks (SCSU) are the dream portal dmen. Burkholder is a Chaska guy who played with the Gopher cohort of Koster, Pitlick, Snuggerud, Rinzel. Henricks played at Shattuck with Whipple and Ziemer and was Rombach’s partner in Lincoln.
it’s and. Definitely and and not or. They need 2 experienced guys. It is not ok to keep putting rud or begley on the ice and McLaughlin a healthy scratch at his best right now (I’d be real ok with telling to go back to jr as he looks scared of making mistakes right now)
not saying those are the guys, but you need 2
I’m good with whipple and Rombach (he has improved dramatically despite how hard people are on him) staying. Gruba is fine as a 2nd-3rd pair with someone mobile. Add 2 plus Harper and Grimes.
i get people hate on Rombach and acknowledge the flaw of the stat , but he and Whipple are the only 2 defensemen who are not minuses in +/- on the year
if people want to run gruba off, I get it. But trying to bring in 3-4 portal guys is going to be tough
5 in in some fashion would be my feeling of however you want to do that, though I wouldn’t count on Phillips being one of those
there’s 120 d minutes to go around. They don’t all need to play 20. I’m not saying he’s going to be an anchor playing 25 or even in your top 2 pairs, but he’s gotten better and most defensemen see their biggest jump in year 2 (see Whipple). Do I think he can play 15 next year? Yeah. More alluding to that he’s made less glaring bad mistakes like we saw early. I’m fine with him being completely unnoticeable (even though that’s hard with his size). He’s just about to turn 19, he will get better and better
whipple-portal
gruba-mobile portal
rombach, Harper, grimes
that’s a serviceable 7 though I’d love one more older guy mixed in there. Rud, Begley and McLaughlin should not see the ice. That’s why I said 2 is an absolute must though
Well 30 mins is probably an underestimate and the point was more that the useless stat is probably more a reflection of playing against bottom six guys while having fresher legs. Either way he could pan out but I don’t put any stock in that stat for a reason.
Well 30 mins is probably an underestimate and the point was more that the useless stat is probably more a reflection of playing against bottom six guys while having fresher legs. Either way he could pan out but I don’t put any stock in that stat for a reason.
No I hear you and I don’t really either, but given how frequently he was getting scored on earlier this year, while still playing those limited minutes and is doing so against the big ten, he has taken some encouraging steps is more what I’m saying to the point where he’s not a liability continually like he looked really early this year.
Ok, Grimes vs. Phillips --- who would you rather see in uniform, and are you OK if the other walks.
Also, to those doubters who thought Bobby Brink would never be in a Minnesota uniform, he is today...LOL.
Also, to those doubters who thought Bobby Brink would never be in a Minnesota uniform, he is today...LOL.
Seems kind of silly to be talking either or with recruits when you currently have maybe 2 quality defensemen returning next year.Ok, Grimes vs. Phillips --- who would you rather see in uniform, and are you OK if the other walks.
Also, to those doubters who thought Bobby Brink would never be in a Minnesota uniform, he is today...LOL.
Ok, Grimes vs. Phillips --- who would you rather see in uniform, and are you OK if the other walks.
Also, to those doubters who thought Bobby Brink would never be in a Minnesota uniform, he is today...LOL.
Grimes and yes.
Phillips is not at a point where his skating is ready for B10 hockey.
tbh they both could remain in Jr and that would be fine, but Grimes looks more ready from a skating standpoint and is currently 10th in points by defensemen and leads the defensemen in the league in non-PP points.
Seems kind of silly to be talking either or with recruits when you currently have maybe 2 quality defensemen returning next year.Ok, Grimes vs. Phillips --- who would you rather see in uniform, and are you OK if the other walks.
Also, to those doubters who thought Bobby Brink would never be in a Minnesota uniform, he is today...LOL.
I was basing my question off the previously presented scenario:
whipple-portal
gruba-mobile portal
rombach, Harper, grimes
Plus it doesn't seem as either Phillips or Grimes move the needle for most people here
It's still difficult to have that discussion without knowing what happened to the dead weight from the current roster, and who filled the holes in this hypothetical top 4.Seems kind of silly to be talking either or with recruits when you currently have maybe 2 quality defensemen returning next year.Ok, Grimes vs. Phillips --- who would you rather see in uniform, and are you OK if the other walks.
Also, to those doubters who thought Bobby Brink would never be in a Minnesota uniform, he is today...LOL.
I was basing my question off the previously presented scenario:
whipple-portal
gruba-mobile portal
rombach, Harper, grimes
Plus it doesn't seem as either Phillips or Grimes move the needle for most people here
Whipple is a portal threat?
Whipple is a portal threat?
The above is hypothetically pairing him with a portal defensemen. Assuming multiple adds in portal safe if the roster is to improve quickly.
Seems kind of silly to be talking either or with recruits when you currently have maybe 2 quality defensemen returning next year.Ok, Grimes vs. Phillips --- who would you rather see in uniform, and are you OK if the other walks.
Also, to those doubters who thought Bobby Brink would never be in a Minnesota uniform, he is today...LOL.
I was basing my question off the previously presented scenario:
whipple-portal
gruba-mobile portal
rombach, Harper, grimes
Plus it doesn't seem as either Phillips or Grimes move the needle for most people here
Grimes is leading the USHL in +/- for D with +27 and 10th in points 7-22-29. I don't know where people think their finding significantly better options, the portal, possibly. Although those seem to be the same people that want to point out the years that Williams, Braccini or Bartoszkiewicz are having for having worse Jrs performances than what Grimes is doing. You can't have it both ways. I think Bob still knows how to find guys even though we had one down year. I trust his eye for talent still.
Seems kind of silly to be talking either or with recruits when you currently have maybe 2 quality defensemen returning next year.Ok, Grimes vs. Phillips --- who would you rather see in uniform, and are you OK if the other walks.
Also, to those doubters who thought Bobby Brink would never be in a Minnesota uniform, he is today...LOL.
I was basing my question off the previously presented scenario:
whipple-portal
gruba-mobile portal
rombach, Harper, grimes
Plus it doesn't seem as either Phillips or Grimes move the needle for most people here
Grimes is leading the USHL in +/- for D with +27 and 10th in points 7-22-29. I don't know where people think their finding significantly better options, the portal, possibly. Although those seem to be the same people that want to point out the years that Williams, Braccini or Bartoszkiewicz are having for having worse Jrs performances than what Grimes is doing. You can't have it both ways. I think Bob still knows how to find guys even though we had one down year. I trust his eye for talent still.
i like grimes as well as the comp from the poster who mentioned he seems Koster like. Every team can use a solid, steady puck mover like that
If Grimes were from Apple Valley and not Locust Valley, Long Island there would be considerably more excitement for him.
If the dude makes the team better next year I don’t think most of us care where he’s from 😆
I know nothing about the kid, never seen him play, and truly hope he's an instant All-American. But, if Koster is the expectation/comparable? That's not something that would excite me.If Grimes were from Apple Valley and not Locust Valley, Long Island there would be considerably more excitement for him.
Koster and Luke Mitts will end up close to each other in career points total, around the 80 point mark. If the Gophers get that from Grimes, I think we all would be happy.
I actually give a @#$* about the Twins
Looking down from my High Horse
Morality Police
if Koster is the expectation/comparable? That's not something that would excite me.
Koster was great in his role from his first game of his freshman year, what are you talking about dude. Especially while Faber LaCombe and Johnson were all away winning WJC gold in 2021, we didn’t miss a beat because freshman Koster stepped up.
Koster wasn't a good playerif Koster is the expectation/comparable? That's not something that would excite me.
Koster was great in his role from his first game of his freshman year, what are you talking about dude. Especially while Faber LaCombe and Johnson were all away winning WJC gold in 2021, we didn’t miss a beat because freshman Koster stepped up.
Good Lord.
Koster wasn't a good playerif Koster is the expectation/comparable? That's not something that would excite me.
Koster was great in his role from his first game of his freshman year, what are you talking about dude. Especially while Faber LaCombe and Johnson were all away winning WJC gold in 2021, we didn’t miss a beat because freshman Koster stepped up.
You’re on an island with that take
I'd say freshman Koster was great, but he didn't seem to progress a ton over the next few years. Whether or not that was due to injuries, hard to say. He was a steady guy throughout his time at the U, but I really expected him to take that next step at some point, but it never really seemed to happen.
good thing that I have almost 200 games worth of video and statistics to support my opinion thenKoster wasn't a good playerif Koster is the expectation/comparable? That's not something that would excite me.
Koster was great in his role from his first game of his freshman year, what are you talking about dude. Especially while Faber LaCombe and Johnson were all away winning WJC gold in 2021, we didn’t miss a beat because freshman Koster stepped up.
You’re on an island with that take
What stats are we talking in college hockey? Pretty sure everyone only has access to the absolute bare min/bare bones stats. The dude doesn't really have NHL size but he was a good college Dman.
And if he was in our team this year, he would have helped our D core tremendously.
What did he do really well?What stats are we talking in college hockey? Pretty sure everyone only has access to the absolute bare min/bare bones stats. The dude doesn't really have NHL size but he was a good college Dman.
I'd say freshman Koster was great, but he didn't seem to progress a ton over the next few years. Whether or not that was due to injuries, hard to say. He was a steady guy throughout his time at the U, but I really expected him to take that next step at some point, but it never really seemed to happen.
he never looked quite the same after getting injured in the first week of practices in 2023-24, maybe took a step back, kinda like Nevers that same year too. By the time he was back Rinzel had significantly lapped him as our go-to offensive D-man.
What stats are we talking in college hockey? Pretty sure everyone only has access to the absolute bare min/bare bones stats. The dude doesn't really have NHL size but he was a good college Dman.
What did he do really well?
a lethal wrister and keeping O-zone cycles alive, his trademark “take it around the net and slip a pass to the forward in the slot” resulted in a ton of goals for us.
If your standard for “good college player” is literally Brock Faber then you’re going to be disappointed all the time.
Transitioning the puck and providing offensive zone support. He was just overshadowed by guys like LaCombe and Rinzel which is why he was the PP2 guy mainly.What did he do really well?What stats are we talking in college hockey? Pretty sure everyone only has access to the absolute bare min/bare bones stats. The dude doesn't really have NHL size but he was a good college Dman.
lethal wrister? Cmon man. 18 goals over 180 games.What stats are we talking in college hockey? Pretty sure everyone only has access to the absolute bare min/bare bones stats. The dude doesn't really have NHL size but he was a good college Dman.
What did he do really well?
a lethal wrister and keeping O-zone cycles alive, his trademark “take it around the net and slip a pass to the forward in the slot” resulted in a ton of goals for us.
If your standard for “good college player” is literally Brock Faber then you’re going to be disappointed all the time.
My standard for good college defensemen would be guys like Chesley, R. Johnson, J. Bischoff, Skjei, Fairchild. I think Mittelstadt is on the edge of that. I don't think Koster was awful, but there is a gap between being good and just being another guy.
I agree with all of this. But, for me, what he wasn't very good at overshadows those things.Transitioning the puck and providing offensive zone support. He was just overshadowed by guys like LaCombe and Rinzel which is why he was the PP2 guy mainly.What did he do really well?What stats are we talking in college hockey? Pretty sure everyone only has access to the absolute bare min/bare bones stats. The dude doesn't really have NHL size but he was a good college Dman.
And if he was in our team this year, he would have helped our D core tremendously.
This is true. However, I think some of the guys/girls on this message board might help our D core this year. 🤣
And if he was in our team this year, he would have helped our D core tremendously.
This is true. However, I think some of the guys/girls on this message board might help our D core this year. 🤣
I never said it was a high bar to clear. 😀
Koster to me seemed more like Ben Marshall who was a good depth offensive Dman and fine defensively. Not as good as the team USA guys or NHL mainstays but definitely an above average NCAA Dman.
lethal wrister? Cmon man. 18 goals over 180 games.What stats are we talking in college hockey? Pretty sure everyone only has access to the absolute bare min/bare bones stats. The dude doesn't really have NHL size but he was a good college Dman.
What did he do really well?
a lethal wrister and keeping O-zone cycles alive, his trademark “take it around the net and slip a pass to the forward in the slot” resulted in a ton of goals for us.
If your standard for “good college player” is literally Brock Faber then you’re going to be disappointed all the time.
My standard for good college defensemen would be guys like Chesley, R. Johnson, J. Bischoff, Skjei, Fairchild. I think Mittelstadt is on the edge of that. I don't think Koster was awful, but there is a gap between being good and just being another guy.
he was on PP2 for his entire college career and yet scored a bunch of goals in the biggest games he played in. The B1G title game in 2021; against BU in the frozen four; 3 goals in 1 weekend vs. OSU when LaCombe was out injured; the goal that clinched our share of the B1G title last year.
Chesley’s gaffes were far more glaring every year they played together
good thing that I have almost 200 games worth of video and statistics to support my opinion thenKoster wasn't a good playerif Koster is the expectation/comparable? That's not something that would excite me.
Koster was great in his role from his first game of his freshman year, what are you talking about dude. Especially while Faber LaCombe and Johnson were all away winning WJC gold in 2021, we didn’t miss a beat because freshman Koster stepped up.
You’re on an island with that take
Listen no one’s saying he was Mike freaking Crowley but your original take of “Koster was not a good player” is pretty out there.
Mike Koster might be the greatest defenseman that I’ve ever seen play the game of hockey.
good thing that I have almost 200 games worth of video and statistics to support my opinion thenKoster wasn't a good playerif Koster is the expectation/comparable? That's not something that would excite me.
Koster was great in his role from his first game of his freshman year, what are you talking about dude. Especially while Faber LaCombe and Johnson were all away winning WJC gold in 2021, we didn’t miss a beat because freshman Koster stepped up.
You’re on an island with that take
That you clearly never looked at. You have it, but don't understand it.
Mike Koster wasn't a great player, but he was a good player. The 2nd highest scoring defenseman on a team that made it to the National Championship game. If he is your BEST defenseman, or perhaps even your 2nd best, you aren't going to be national championship contender. But if he is part of your 6 defensemen you have a solid core on the blue line.
Count me in on the side that thinks he was a solid college defenseman. He'd get top minutes on this team along with #20.
Potentially hours away from the conclusion of the worst season of many of our lifetimes, which in turn could lead into one of the crazier offseasons in recent memory and this board is debating the legacy of Mike Koster.
Gotta love GPL😄
Potentially hours away from the conclusion of the worst season of many of our lifetimes, which in turn could lead into one of the crazier offseasons in recent memory and this board is debating the legacy of Mike Koster.
Gotta love GPL😄
GPL has become....Wisconsinites, living in the past.
My God, the toll the season has had on us.....
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.