We're looking at this from a fan perspective, which is to say the consumer.
Motzko and Coyle are running a business and need to start acting like it.
They knew they had a big problem this summer and it's probably worse than they thought. In the days when players can jump anytime they want, the program can also get anyone it wants. If they don't, next season will be 2025/26 Part II. Worse, doing nothing might cause the talent to jump.
I'm as ardent a fan as anyone and have held season tickets since Mariucci opened. It's been a fun ride but the wheels are wobbling for me. NIL and the portal have turned college hockey into the minor leagues, and if that's the direction they're going, I might as well see the real thing in St. Paul.
Down year? Ok, I can deal with that but only if I have reason to believe the following season is a reward for tolerating a season of development. I'm not seeing that. Is anyone else?
tbh I expect this to be a much more tumultuous offseason from a personnel standpoint. I don’t think Coyle will get rid of Bob and don’t think he should unless Bob says he doesn’t have the fire to get out there and recruit as this was the same thing that happened during his initial rebuild before our really good run.
but yes, imo, the rest of the season needs to be deciding who is here from the standpoint of that rebuild. There are some really good pieces up front (Zeimer, Mooney, Moore, Moe and some good middle to bottom 6 guys who will be comfortable playing that role) on this team that can build you to that, but very lacking in any star power and you lose your top d guys (personally I think Rombach can replace Thomas fine and has made massive strides this year as a defensive defenseman for what I expect as a freshmen) and need some amount of offense and another better defensive option to add in there.
Firstly, I am really hoping this program adds a general manager and/or beefs up the Director of Hockey Ops role to handle some of that roster management. The Whioux AD clearly had the right idea with that.
Second, agreed as to Rombach’s growth. He was very shaky to start the year but has improved fast and now it’s mostly just detail orientation that he’s missing on now.
tbh I expect this to be a much more tumultuous offseason from a personnel standpoint. I don’t think Coyle will get rid of Bob and don’t think he should unless Bob says he doesn’t have the fire to get out there and recruit as this was the same thing that happened during his initial rebuild before our really good run.
but yes, imo, the rest of the season needs to be deciding who is here from the standpoint of that rebuild. There are some really good pieces up front (Zeimer, Mooney, Moore, Moe and some good middle to bottom 6 guys who will be comfortable playing that role) on this team that can build you to that, but very lacking in any star power and you lose your top d guys (personally I think Rombach can replace Thomas fine and has made massive strides this year as a defensive defenseman for what I expect as a freshmen) and need some amount of offense and another better defensive option to add in there.
Firstly, I am really hoping this program adds a general manager and/or beefs up the Director of Hockey Ops role to handle some of that roster management. The Whioux AD clearly had the right idea with that.
Second, agreed as to Rombach’s growth. He was very shaky to start the year but has improved fast and now it’s mostly just detail orientation that he’s missing on now.
Given we're all just playing AD, have been on record about the above and to me I think that's the non-negotiable if you decide that Bob is coming back. If they want to make that Martin to formalize his role that's fine. It does mean you have restructure as you can only have 4 paid coaches (if you're using him for U sponsored travel, etc would envision you have to do this).
Even if its not for big changes in the coming year, you need to start laying the groundwork of those relationships. You can't get away with just entirely ignoring the CHLs existence and Chyzyk is 100% why UND has Reschny and Verhoeff on campus right now and is why they're favorites to land a couple more top tier Canadian kids for next year.
We're looking at this from a fan perspective, which is to say the consumer.
Motzko and Coyle are running a business and need to start acting like it.
They knew they had a big problem this summer and it's probably worse than they thought. In the days when players can jump anytime they want, the program can also get anyone it wants. If they don't, next season will be 2025/26 Part II. Worse, doing nothing might cause the talent to jump.
I'm as ardent a fan as anyone and have held season tickets since Mariucci opened. It's been a fun ride but the wheels are wobbling for me. NIL and the portal have turned college hockey into the minor leagues, and if that's the direction they're going, I might as well see the real thing in St. Paul.
Down year? Ok, I can deal with that but only if I have reason to believe the following season is a reward for tolerating a season of development. I'm not seeing that. Is anyone else?
Think the part that's hard for us as fans is you don't get to know what Bob views regarding the guys coming back and if he's going to change in how he attacks the portal and CHL. There are pieces adding to optimism for next year (LDP should be back so goalie is set with a guy who's been solid, there are some solid forwards who will continue to improve and some of the defensemen have improved quite a bit or are solid), but its the unknown part of that the current pipeline for next year specifically looks like its not bringing you over the top into contention. He won't say they're going to be aggressive in the portal and CHL publicly, but you'll probably know pretty quick if they are based on how many of our internal guys portal out. If the roster sits mostly pat with just the 4 out, which would really surprise me, then yeah it doesn't feel great unless you're pushing out the recruits and landing 4 high draft picks/veterans to replace them rather than freshmen.
The classes are really unbalanced right now for skaters with 7 Fr, 8 So, 3 Jr and 4 Sr. Given that, would not surprise me to see a couple of adds to both the F and D group purely from a class balance standpoint nor to see some guys who are a ways down the lineup transfer out for bigger opportunities
I am going to guess by the end of January that even the blind faith supporters will be questioning this roster and future outlook.
This team still has to play Michigan AND Michigan State 4 teams each.
I have a strong assumption it will be eye opening to those supporting the program without taking a deeper look.
@the-rube you make a good point, although I think we may be referring to two different things. What I think you are referring to is very real impact of hope and belief about/in one’s self/team. It makes a difference because it impacts on how you performs, thus it impacts the outcome.
however, in my case, I am just a fan, my hope and belief have no influence on how the Gophers perform. In this situation I am merely an observer and my hope is irrelevant to the outcome of the game or season.
what I would like to see, and this is at the Croyel level, is for Gopher sports revenue sharing move more into Hockey. I believe Croyel has indicated that he is alowcating $17MM (maybe $15, can’t remember) of the $22MM the gophers get from B1G to Football, and the rest divided up among the other sports.
I think he should take at least $2MM from football and give it to men’s Hockey. Honestly, it’s relatively inconsequential in football when you compare it to Texas, OhSt, spending $35MM before revenue sharing is included. However, for Men’s Hockey, you would have the biggest budget in the country, and it wouldn’t even be close. We would be talking dynasties. The reason we could justify it at Minnesota, is Minnesota is the only Men’s hockey program that is revenue generating, so it wouldn’t even be an investment, you would expect to see revenues increase with Dynasties.
no football reserve use would be gained or lost with the $2mm reduction in football budget. It would be hard to even argue it’s quantifiable.
That will never happen. Football is by FAR the biggest contributor to the budget, there's no way they'll divert the money like that.
Would I like them to? Sure, I'm a much bigger hockey fan than football or bouncy-ball, but, I try to be realistic about these things.
what I would like to see, and this is at the Croyel level, is for Gopher sports revenue sharing move more into Hockey. I believe Croyel has indicated that he is alowcating $17MM (maybe $15, can’t remember) of the $22MM the gophers get from B1G to Football, and the rest divided up among the other sports.
I think he should take at least $2MM from football and give it to men’s Hockey. Honestly, it’s relatively inconsequential in football when you compare it to Texas, OhSt, spending $35MM before revenue sharing is included. However, for Men’s Hockey, you would have the biggest budget in the country, and it wouldn’t even be close. We would be talking dynasties. The reason we could justify it at Minnesota, is Minnesota is the only Men’s hockey program that is revenue generating, so it wouldn’t even be an investment, you would expect to see revenues increase with Dynasties.
no football reserve use would be gained or lost with the $2mm reduction in football budget. It would be hard to even argue it’s quantifiable.
i would be 100% in support of this as the money we get is banked from being cannon fodder for the upper echelon of the B10 sans a large donor coming into changing the calculus, but I am a hockey diehard and football fan
Gopher hockey having that money would put it in the same area of PSU, Michigan, BU and it sounds like MSU for top NIL teams based on the rumors out there. You can still choose to recruit MN heavily, but it sure helps you to keep your stars on campus longer when you can offset the stress about money by making the NIL worth it. Of the teams that are "worth it" marketing wise, its football and hockey. I get you want to be competitive in football and MBB, but I'm 100% there with you we don't have the donor base to even scratch at the middle tier of teams in the current landscape from a NIL standpoint. A modest boost into hockey, and yeah you can lock yourself into a perennial FF contender if you have a coach who understands that and is willing to use it that way.
You're going to have the old guard who will bitch about taking Canadians and wanting a pure MN roster. I think that group will probably be ok if you are winning National Titles and you should be able to manufacture your money back in that NIL keeping Mariucci full given the rink size. I'm a little fearful its going to look like a ghost town down the stretch
that said, there is a 0% chance this happens. your better bet is a Gopher hockey centric NIL collective gets together (whether the GHC or DTA gets more run). To make the money even up is a lot more achievable in hockey than anywhere else with our alumni and fan base, but Gopher fans (joy of MN; I say this with love as a MN lifer who never intends to leave) are cheap comparatively to many of our peers, in part because we are drilled in comparative ticket prices as well as due to what additional options you have here in the cities and that we don't live in a "college town" with not much else there for demand
You're going to have the old guard who will bitch about taking Canadians and wanting a pure MN roster. I think that group will probably be ok if you are winning National Titles
Anyone whining like that is 10 years behind the 8ball. For quite a while now kids haven’t come into college hockey as like, true freshmen riding high on scoring a hatty in the prior year’s state tourney. Recruiting the NTDP and elite (mainly MN-native) kids in CHL will determine how this program’s foreseeable future plays out
Reading all these posts about roster construction just has me thinking about some of the wagon teams Motzko built from 2020-2025. Did he just up and forget how to do it? I find that hard to believe. I think what we’re seeing is a mass pro exodus coinciding with a handful of players not nearly reaching the level they were expected to.
The million dollar question is can Bob call a spade a spade and address the roster in the offseason or do old habits die hard and we trot out what we have next season.
Been hammering the same point for weeks but this offseason will tell us everything we need to know.
curious to see how this plays out with gopher fans and admin. i was looking at the schedule during the few weeks off and i was thinking, damn its possible we might not even win a game in january. i dont know enough about future recruits talent etc... but from what it sounds like people saying is that a player the caliber or snuggy/cooley/knies isnt coming next year either. i saw someone mention gopher hockey should be comparable to oh st football. are we realistically looking at another year of this? if so how is this happening being a blue blood program?
The difference then was he couldn't completely revamp the roster to his liking and inherited however many Lucia guys, some of which were destined to fail like Lucius (and his brother never even got here). Now he has nobody to blame but himself.
tbh I expect this to be a much more tumultuous offseason from a personnel standpoint. I don’t think Coyle will get rid of Bob and don’t think he should unless Bob says he doesn’t have the fire to get out there and recruit as this was the same thing that happened during his initial rebuild before our really good run.
At this point it'd have to be one hell of an offseason to quickly turn things around, they need an offensive 1D, 2D, 1C, 2C 😰. And to your point they can't afford to lose either of the two top 6 forwards they currently have, if they do then Motzko is almost certainly gone, at that point there's literally no reason to bring him back as you now have a full rebuild.We're looking at this from a fan perspective, which is to say the consumer.
Motzko and Coyle are running a business and need to start acting like it.
They knew they had a big problem this summer and it's probably worse than they thought. In the days when players can jump anytime they want, the program can also get anyone it wants. If they don't, next season will be 2025/26 Part II. Worse, doing nothing might cause the talent to jump.
I'm as ardent a fan as anyone and have held season tickets since Mariucci opened. It's been a fun ride but the wheels are wobbling for me. NIL and the portal have turned college hockey into the minor leagues, and if that's the direction they're going, I might as well see the real thing in St. Paul.
Down year? Ok, I can deal with that but only if I have reason to believe the following season is a reward for tolerating a season of development. I'm not seeing that. Is anyone else?
I think this seasons schedule will make it very difficult to make the playoffs, we have been very good under Bob for the last 7 seasons
Aloha!
I think this seasons schedule will make it very difficult to make the playoffs, we have been very good under Bob for the last 7 seasons
For better or for worse, sports is a “what have you done lately” type of business. Things don’t seem set to turnaround quickly.
People can mull over that Qpac game until hell freezes over, lord knows I spent much of last night thinking about how the games we played in Unhappy Valley circa Feb 2023 were just vastly higher-quality hockey in every respect, including our opponent’s talent level at that time, BUT for me that not what defines Bob’s tenure because we were right there and the very last play of the very last game in a special season doesn’t wipe out the 40 games (80 w/ the year before) before it where you could see us building and building for our moment.
Right now they need to make drastic and immediate moves to shore up the overall team. They should even be setting aside considerations of “will doing X hinder Y or Z player’s individual development” because no matter what, losing derails development and it derails the overall program’s health.
The difference then was he couldn't completely revamp the roster to his liking and inherited however many Lucia guys, some of which were destined to fail like Lucius (and his brother never even got here). Now he has nobody to blame but himself.
tbh I expect this to be a much more tumultuous offseason from a personnel standpoint. I don’t think Coyle will get rid of Bob and don’t think he should unless Bob says he doesn’t have the fire to get out there and recruit as this was the same thing that happened during his initial rebuild before our really good run.
At this point it'd have to be one hell of an offseason to quickly turn things around, they need an offensive 1D, 2D, 1C, 2C 😰. And to your point they can't afford to lose either of the two top 6 forwards they currently have, if they do then Motzko is almost certainly gone, at that point there's literally no reason to bring him back as you now have a full rebuild.We're looking at this from a fan perspective, which is to say the consumer.
Motzko and Coyle are running a business and need to start acting like it.
They knew they had a big problem this summer and it's probably worse than they thought. In the days when players can jump anytime they want, the program can also get anyone it wants. If they don't, next season will be 2025/26 Part II. Worse, doing nothing might cause the talent to jump.
I'm as ardent a fan as anyone and have held season tickets since Mariucci opened. It's been a fun ride but the wheels are wobbling for me. NIL and the portal have turned college hockey into the minor leagues, and if that's the direction they're going, I might as well see the real thing in St. Paul.
Down year? Ok, I can deal with that but only if I have reason to believe the following season is a reward for tolerating a season of development. I'm not seeing that. Is anyone else?
just for clarity sake, yes I think Bob definitely gets some/most/all the blame for this and being too unwilling to go harder in the portal/CHL leading to this. wasn't trying to say he wasn't (nor do I think you were necessarily saying that either), just that he's done a full rebuild before and has done so building from the bottom up rather than patching it but he has also "missed" on some guys he's brought in to try stop gap things (McLaughlin. Ludkte has not looked like his Fr self; DiPasquo has been solid and Pritchard as expected) while I think also realizing he wanted to maintain a little roster flexibility (it is literally the only reason I can come up with for leaving the last slot open rather than filling it was he viewed this as a dev/building year and wanted to get these guys time).
I don't think he's going to be able to sit on this roster for multiple reasons. The portal being what it is, you're going to see kids look elsewhere who are here as well as guys looking to move up. Hate that we're in this spot that this is the discussion, but also excited to see how the guys grow the rest of the year with hope for this year as well as the ability to address it much more dynamically than in the past
The biggest issue I have with Motzko is it seems like he's entirely reliant on recruiting and how well he does that determines the success level of the team. If they don't have an absolute wagon then they aren't going back to the title game and we saw that in the years before and after that where they got absolutely owned by the Cows or got flat out beat by BU, last year was even worse where I had zero confidence they'd beat UMass after whatever that was we witnessed vs Notre Dame. All the credit in the world for recruiting those teams as they were super entertaining to watch, I just don't really get the idea that he's gonna coach a team well beyond its talent level and getting back to a roster of that caliber will take at least 2 if not 3 years.
@the-rube you make a good point, although I think we may be referring to two different things. What I think you are referring to is very real impact of hope and belief about/in one’s self/team. It makes a difference because it impacts on how you performs, thus it impacts the outcome.
however, in my case, I am just a fan, my hope and belief have no influence on how the Gophers perform. In this situation I am merely an observer and my hope is irrelevant to the outcome of the game or season.
We, as fans, have no impact. IMO, it does diminish hope, because we still somehow THINK we have influence. 😉 See also: superstitions.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
If they don't have an absolute wagon then they aren't going back to the title game and we saw that in the years before and after that where they got absolutely owned by the Cows or got flat out beat by BU, last year was even worse where I had zero confidence they'd beat UMass after whatever that was we witnessed vs Notre Dame.
On 3 of these 4 occasions they beat themselves, i.e. underperformed relative to roster talent. Firstly, our 2021 team steamrolled most of the competition save for 2 bad weekends (ND & Wisconsin) and then panicked in that last game vs. Mankato. Next, in 2022 it was mostly the same roster plus several key guys taking big steps forward & Knies, and objectively speaking Denver that year really didn’t achieve that much more than us beyond weathering the Mankato storm. Thirdly, in that 2024 BU game we were clearly overmatched but those boys played their hearts out, and it easily goes the other way if (1) puck doesn’t hop over Brodzinski’s stick late, (2) Pitlick gets >1min, 30s ice time in the 3rd, or (3) Carl Fish, who was a -3 thru 2 periods and accordingly sat most of that 3rd, hadn’t been slotted in as Rinzel’s D partner for half of that season. Lastly, I believe that we wouldn’t see that meltdown vs. ND a year ago and even get by with one or two less clunkers vs. MSU and @ Michigan if Bob had (a) committed to Souliere as the guy for the year, you could see how much more confident everyone was with him in net; and (b) not overcooked the line chart by cycling new centers in for each pair of wings every single series.
the Michigan B1G championships are basically the same exact story which sums up our program from 2020-23. More than enough talent to win the game outright, but never could stop making it harder for ourselves.
and in writing this out I realize how much of these earlier than expected exits do ultimately boil down to failures in coaching. Tony Granato kept his job for many years because of Cole Caufield, and maybe Jaxon Nelson (or Bryce Brodzinski- lol!) was that guy for Bob’s locker room.
The BU game came down to goaltending more than anything imo with Close letting in 2 bad goals and their goalie making some nice saves. They probably were outmatched by BU too but that kinda speaks to my original point that they never seem to exceed their talent level to win a big game ala Denver (who shouldn't have beat the Cows but had insane goaltending weather the storm long enough for them to score and get a lead). You're right, it does seem like questionable coaching decisions were part of the problem those years and even with years of near perfect recruiting they couldn't quite get it done vs Q or Michigan.If they don't have an absolute wagon then they aren't going back to the title game and we saw that in the years before and after that where they got absolutely owned by the Cows or got flat out beat by BU, last year was even worse where I had zero confidence they'd beat UMass after whatever that was we witnessed vs Notre Dame.
On 3 of these 4 occasions they beat themselves, i.e. underperformed relative to roster talent. Firstly, our 2021 team steamrolled most of the competition save for 2 bad weekends (ND & Wisconsin) and then panicked in that last game vs. Mankato. Next, in 2022 it was mostly the same roster plus several key guys taking big steps forward & Knies, and objectively speaking Denver that year really didn’t achieve that much more than us beyond weathering the Mankato storm. Thirdly, in that 2024 BU game we were clearly overmatched but those boys played their hearts out, and it easily goes the other way if (1) puck doesn’t hop over Brodzinski’s stick late, (2) Pitlick gets >1min, 30s ice time in the 3rd, or (3) Carl Fish, who was a -3 thru 2 periods and accordingly sat most of that 3rd, hadn’t been slotted in as Rinzel’s D partner for half of that season. Lastly, I believe that we wouldn’t see that meltdown vs. ND a year ago and even get by with one or two less clunkers vs. MSU and @ Michigan if Bob had (a) committed to Souliere as the guy for the year, you could see how much more confident everyone was with him in net; and (b) not overcooked the line chart by cycling new centers in for each pair of wings every single series.
the Michigan B1G championships are basically the same exact story which sums up our program from 2020-23. More than enough talent to win the game outright, but never could stop making it harder for ourselves.
and in writing this out I realize how much of these earlier than expected exits do ultimately boil down to failures in coaching. Tony Granato kept his job for many years because of Cole Caufield, and maybe Jaxon Nelson (or Bryce Brodzinski- lol!) was that guy for Bob’s locker room.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't get the obsession with these CHL players. I couldn't care less what league or nationality a player comes from but all things being equal who is more likely to stay an extra year? Do Faber, Lacombe, Johnson(Cali but legacy player), Snuggerud, Chesley and others stay 3 or 4 years if their from Saskatchewan? The 2 most recent underclassmen to leave early were both from out of state. It's not like the majority of these CHL players are coming in and dominating college hockey either. Of the top 20 in points per game right now 2 are from the CHL, 14 from the USHL and 6 are from the state of Minnesota. Superstar Gavin McKenna is 48th and of the 48 is dead last in +/- at -3. Cayden Lindstrom was taken 4th overall in his draft and has 4 points, yet people want the U to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to these unproven kids when you can find equal or better college players for free in your own back yard? People seem to judge other teams recruiting classes on hype but only judge gopher players in hindsight. Like yeah maybe Gruba and Pahlsson don't pan out but that doesn't change the fact that every team in the country were after them and Bob won the recruiting battle. People were losing their minds when Lutner and Trottier committed elsewhere but both are looking like they are going to be undrafted while Cullen and Harper could be first or second round picks. I'd take Kvasnicka, Cullen and Harper at this point as a whole over Berchild, Trottier and Lutner every day of the week.
The main reason people are mentioning it is because there aren’t that many other avenues (besides the transfer portal and we don’t know who will be in it) to improve quickly and get help on the blue line or at center. If the gophers had guys like that in the pipeline it’d be one thing but Phillips clearly isn’t that type of player. All else equal I agree, the team needs to get the best recruits from this state but if the talent level is down or they go elsewhere then that kinda needs to be plan B.
"Companies go through tough times, our company is going through a time right now"- Motzko
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gopher-hockey-weekly-01-12-26/id1466088193?i=1000744916954
Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
Lol, I remember when Motzko got hired and they did some interview with him that got broadcast to facebook. They were fielding questions and whoever they picked got some gopher lottery merchandise, so I asked something along the lines of what he intended to change with how the team plays, given that they're changing coaches for a reason or something like that. I of course was thinking along the lines that Lucia probably got forced into retirement rather than just deciding to retire when I asked that 😆 and Motzko and the interviewer kinda went, "uhhhh???? 🤨 ".Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
it will be darkly amusing if getting swept @ Penn State turns out to be the final straw for multiple consecutive Gophers head coaches
Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
it will be darkly amusing if getting swept @ Penn State turns out to be the final straw for multiple consecutive Gophers head coaches
that 17-18 team losing 4 consecutive just win one games vs PSU still is complete and utter insanity, especially given what PSU was at that time
Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
it will be darkly amusing if getting swept @ Penn State turns out to be the final straw for multiple consecutive Gophers head coaches
that 17-18 team losing 4 consecutive just win one games vs PSU still is complete and utter insanity, especially given what PSU was at that time
If I remember correctly, simply taking the very last game of 4 to OT and then losing would have sufficed for an NCAA berth. We were tied late and then gave up that GWG w/ <2min to play in regulation. Whatever the opposite of a lottery ticket might be, I should’ve bought tons of them
Just one? When was the last time that the Gophers didn't finish the season in a worse spot than the previous season?Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
So, Lucia should have been fired after the 08-09 season, by that logic? Lost the regional final in 07, 1st round of regionals in 08, missed the tourney in 09. 3 years of declining results, same setup as Bob right now (lost regional final in 2024, 1st round in 2025, almost certainly missing the tournament this year)
Edit: And in response to your question, 3 seasons ago... National Championship game, then, the results listed here. Amazing how fast people think it's OK to fire a coach when they're in the middle of a bad season the year after tying for the Conference championship.
Just one? When was the last time that the Gophers didn't finish the season in a worse spot than the previous season?Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
Heading into 2024-25; at least once Snuggerud confirmed he’d be back for junior year and we got Wood + Souliere in the portal. 2023-24 had been a transition year, and our 24-25 roster upgraded or stayed strong across the board. Didn’t pan out with those ND and UMass debacles, but that’s really the first time Bob has had a “Lucia special” late-season/first-round dud type of year.
So, Lucia should have been fired after the 08-09 season, by that logic? Lost the regional final in 07, 1st round of regionals in 08, missed the tourney in 09. 3 years of declining results, same setup as Bob right now (lost regional final in 2024, 1st round in 2025, almost certainly missing the tournament this year)
Bob doesn’t have b2b titles from his 3rd and 4th years to lean on, and Lucia’s dud teams all hovered around .500 and 16th-25th in the pairwise. That was basically his floor
Funny... the Gophers tied for the conference championship last year, nobody seems to remember that.
Is this year bad? Of course. Anybody that says it isn't clearly isn't paying attention.
Does one bad year mean we should fire the coach? It's starting to sound like SiouxSports around here these days.
the Gophers tied for the conference championship last year, nobody seems to remember that.
Everyone remembers it, the season’s overall results were disappointing and it was an objectively stacked team that failed to click a few too many times when it really mattered. Or, less charitably… conference regular season titles are dime a dozen for the Gophs plus our B1G co-champions took it us several times.
its not one bad year that people are upset about; it’s (1) the uninspiring play on the ice, (2) we’re getting really lucky when we do manage to score on occasional rush chances between long stretches hemmed in our own zone; (3) the seeming lack of mid/near-term future prospects for a turnaround, and (4) lack of decisive action to address roster gaps, even just to fill the last roster spot.
Funny... the Gophers tied for the conference championship last year, nobody seems to remember that.
Is this year bad? Of course. Anybody that says it isn't clearly isn't paying attention.
Does one bad year mean we should fire the coach? It's starting to sound like SiouxSports around here these days.
Which players on this roster makes you think next year will be better?
Yeah, regular season championships have been common for the Gophers... because they've been really good in a top conference in the country.
But, having tied for the championship after a full 24 game regular season is somehow meaningless, while losing in a one-and-done tournament format that drags in huge luck factors (like getting screwed multiple times by the refs in that single game) is a better indicator of that team. Got it.
if Lucia was going to be 65 at the end of the 08/09 season? Yes, it probably would have been smart to fire him thenSo, Lucia should have been fired after the 08-09 season, by that logic? Lost the regional final in 07, 1st round of regionals in 08, missed the tourney in 09. 3 years of declining results, same setup as Bob right now (lost regional final in 2024, 1st round in 2025, almost certainly missing the tournament this year)
Edit: And in response to your question, 3 seasons ago... National Championship game, then, the results listed here. Amazing how fast people think it's OK to fire a coach when they're in the middle of a bad season the year after tying for the Conference championship.
Just one? When was the last time that the Gophers didn't finish the season in a worse spot than the previous season?Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
i cannot wait for you to suggest the Denver should fire Carle this year or next year if they don't get back to the FF or Nightingale from MSU (regional final-->regional semifinal last year).
We were 7 in PWR in 2024 pre tourney, 5 last year. 2023 1, 2022 6, 2021 4.
So 2021 4, regional finals, B10 CT title
2022 6 FF semis, B10 RS title
2023 1 FF title, B10 RS title
2024 7 regional finals
2025 5 regional semis, B10 RS title
Looks like treading water (with overall net positive) the last 2 years. 24 and 25 both had looks of contenders who needed things to go right if they were going to win it. It didn't, just the difference of the exact moment it happened where the season would end each year (we had to come back vs Omaha in the 3rd to even play BU with Nelson basically willing them to win). There's no shame in that.
It's how it is basically every year for every team. Shit WMU went to double OT in their 1st round game and again against DU. Sometimes it works out. Most of the time it doesn't.
That said, this is the first time things have looked this "bad" since probably the middle of the Lucia tenure (imo; end of Lucia tenure wasn't good, but wasn't this bad) and if one (Coyle) wants to project its no better next year, then yeah I get what you're saying. But to try and say 24 vs 25 was markedly different, I just don't see that being true objectively when you're weighing the entirety of the season.
I can deal with a down year but when the future looks dim, I get cranky.
I don't pay too much attention to which recruits are coming when, but if people expect freshman players to come in here next season to turn things around, that's wishful thinking. After graduation losses, there really isn’t much of a base left to build on. I hate to say it, but if the Gophers don't go heavily into the portal sweepstakes this off season, next year will be an extension of this one.
and who is on next seasons non conference schedule?
beyond UND @ Mariucci, we won’t know until September
if you don't view last season as a bad one, then our standards are quite far apart.Funny... the Gophers tied for the conference championship last year, nobody seems to remember that.
Is this year bad? Of course. Anybody that says it isn't clearly isn't paying attention.
Does one bad year mean we should fire the coach? It's starting to sound like SiouxSports around here these days.
if you don't view last season as a bad one, then our standards are quite far apart.Funny... the Gophers tied for the conference championship last year, nobody seems to remember that.
Is this year bad? Of course. Anybody that says it isn't clearly isn't paying attention.
Does one bad year mean we should fire the coach? It's starting to sound like SiouxSports around here these days.
it definitely wasn’t a bad one
it wasn’t a great one either but it wasn’t bad
Yep... more and more like SiouxSports every time I look.
Tying for the conference championship and making the NCAA tournament as the #5 overall seed is now considered a "Bad Season" around here.
Did you really just compare Motzko to David Carle? That's a really bad take.Just one? When was the last time that the Gophers didn't finish the season in a worse spot than the previous season?Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
i cannot wait for you to suggest the Denver should fire Carle this year or next year if they don't get back to the FF or Nightingale from MSU (regional final-->regional semifinal last year).
We were 7 in PWR in 2024 pre tourney, 5 last year. 2023 1, 2022 6, 2021 4.
So 2021 4, regional finals, B10 CT title
2022 6 FF semis, B10 RS title
2023 1 FF title, B10 RS title
2024 7 regional finals
2025 5 regional semis, B10 RS title
Looks like treading water (with overall net positive) the last 2 years. 24 and 25 both had looks of contenders who needed things to go right if they were going to win it. It didn't, just the difference of the exact moment it happened where the season would end each year (we had to come back vs Omaha in the 3rd to even play BU with Nelson basically willing them to win). There's no shame in that.
It's how it is basically every year for every team. Shit WMU went to double OT in their 1st round game and again against DU. Sometimes it works out. Most of the time it doesn't.
That said, this is the first time things have looked this "bad" since probably the middle of the Lucia tenure (imo; end of Lucia tenure wasn't good, but wasn't this bad) and if one (Coyle) wants to project its no better next year, then yeah I get what you're saying. But to try and say 24 vs 25 was markedly different, I just don't see that being true objectively when you're weighing the entirety of the season.
If Motzko was 45 years old this would be a completely different discussion. Why would you consider giving a coach 2+ years to rebuild a program when it's unlikely that he will even want to coach 5-6 years from now?
The current roster needs at least 3 forwards and probably 3 dmen who are better than anyone they have currently if they want to compete in any way. I don't follow the recruiting near as close as a lot of people on this site do, but from what I understand, they don't have anyone like that coming in next year. What's the point of kicking the can down the road another year for a coach who isn't in the long term plan?
They lost a best of 3 to Notre Dame before that, that was way more embarrassing. Tying for conference champions was good and mostly done on the back of a really good first half of the season but the 2nd half wasn't great and they couldn't beat the co-champion a single time. The season wasn't terrible overall because of the hot start but it was part of a yearly decline culminating in the team bottoming out this year. The success of Motzko's teams are a near 1:1 correlation to how much talent is on the roster (last year you could maybe argue they underachieved) and we have yet to see his team overachieve with weaker recruiting classes.Yeah, regular season championships have been common for the Gophers... because they've been really good in a top conference in the country.
But, having tied for the championship after a full 24 game regular season is somehow meaningless, while losing in a one-and-done tournament format that drags in huge luck factors (like getting screwed multiple times by the refs in that single game) is a better indicator of that team. Got it.
I have no idea how long Motzko wants to keep coaching but the guy is almost 65 and close to retirement age anyhow, it probably won't even come down to firing him. But you have to admit this is uncharted territory, Lucia's worst team ended in 24th with a similar amount of talent.
Did you really just compare Motzko to David Carle? That's a really bad take.Just one? When was the last time that the Gophers didn't finish the season in a worse spot than the previous season?Guess what happens to the 65 year old CEO when the company goes through a multiple year downturn?
then I guess we’re in and supportive of Bob being our coach for next year at minimum given this is just one 😉
in reality, I don’t think Bob is naive enough to think he will be given 2-3 years by this fan base if the team isn’t playing better. He saw what happened to Lucia and his teams at the end
i cannot wait for you to suggest the Denver should fire Carle this year or next year if they don't get back to the FF or Nightingale from MSU (regional final-->regional semifinal last year).
We were 7 in PWR in 2024 pre tourney, 5 last year. 2023 1, 2022 6, 2021 4.
So 2021 4, regional finals, B10 CT title
2022 6 FF semis, B10 RS title
2023 1 FF title, B10 RS title
2024 7 regional finals
2025 5 regional semis, B10 RS title
Looks like treading water (with overall net positive) the last 2 years. 24 and 25 both had looks of contenders who needed things to go right if they were going to win it. It didn't, just the difference of the exact moment it happened where the season would end each year (we had to come back vs Omaha in the 3rd to even play BU with Nelson basically willing them to win). There's no shame in that.
It's how it is basically every year for every team. Shit WMU went to double OT in their 1st round game and again against DU. Sometimes it works out. Most of the time it doesn't.
That said, this is the first time things have looked this "bad" since probably the middle of the Lucia tenure (imo; end of Lucia tenure wasn't good, but wasn't this bad) and if one (Coyle) wants to project its no better next year, then yeah I get what you're saying. But to try and say 24 vs 25 was markedly different, I just don't see that being true objectively when you're weighing the entirety of the season.
If Motzko was 45 years old this would be a completely different discussion. Why would you consider giving a coach 2+ years to rebuild a program when it's unlikely that he will even want to coach 5-6 years from now?
The current roster needs at least 3 forwards and probably 3 dmen who are better than anyone they have currently if they want to compete in any way. I don't follow the recruiting near as close as a lot of people on this site do, but from what I understand, they don't have anyone like that coming in next year. What's the point of kicking the can down the road another year for a coach who isn't in the long term plan?
picking an arbitrary "worse position than last year" is a really bad take when the position is top 5-8 in every single year. Hence the joy of picking another hyperbolic take
For DU, given we're only talking about "trends" while ignoring the overall body of work. Look at this very scary Denver trend, also coming off a sweep to WMU and they lost to us; all must be over
2026: Currently 11
2025: 9 PWR, FF semis
2024: 3, title, CT title
2023: 4, regional semis, RS title
That's 2 straight years of downtrend if they don't at least make the FF again (egad how will they ever survive?!). I'm not the one who brought up a trend. If you want to fire him for this year exclusively, that's fine as this year is 100%, undeniably, to this point a failure. To try hold last year like it was a failure is silly.
Projecting out 5-6 years down the road right now is an even more silly option, particularly in the era of the portal and CHL. That's the only part of the post-season meeting I care about if I'm running the program. If Bob is given the resources and is inflexible on those 2 areas, then yeah absolutely move on (alluding to what they need for next year as you aptly do; hence why I said if its a repeat next year, he's gone. If it's looking like he's setting up a repeat, I can also understand moving on). If finishing 5th in the PWR while winning a RS title is a failure, you're going to end up unhappy with the next coach as well.
On recruiting, W Cullen just came out as the highest ranked NTDPer in the central scouting rankings (23rd in NA); Berchild is 69th. Lutner isn't even listed any longer. DU has also pivoted and started targeting older CHL kids and graduates their only top 2 round guy this year (Lorenz who just never has panned out; he's a Wild draft pick). My point being, there are multiple ways to get places (as you allude to, you have zero worry in how Denver is doing, hence the inclusion of where their guys sit right now) and Bob told everyone we were going to transition and get older while supplementing our stars when we could get them. We're seeing it right now. The current roster needs that getting older, it is not as devoid of talent that can win as doom and gloomers want to say given they've beaten multiple top 10 teams this year with their ranking looking like complete and utter trash because of losses to LIU and Tech.
The game has changed in terms of player movement (imo). Recruiting is going to change substantially (its part of why there are so many more uncommitted kids). I see a vision in the pipeline with some solid kids coming down the way with Conboy and Harper as well and we'll see what Geiger and McArthur dev to (with adding in the idea that you are frontrunners in getting J Cullen). Kvasnicka has also jumped up a bunch of projection charts after having a pretty blah draft year. Next year's D core is gross but the forwards should be pretty decent depending on who all comes in.
If Bob starts committing guys like Rud and Begley again (I was very happy he cut ties with Reid) to fill gaps, then yes there's an issue. But he's actually done a pretty reasonable job on addressing a back to back sparse set of MN classes with what's on tap down the road (which I'd expect those kids are far more likely to stay committed regardless of coach).
I get it. We're all pissed off that this season is occurring and no one ever wants to feel like you're just watching a slow death. But unless you have someone listed who is a feasible target that you think somehow changes what 2 years from now looks like, you're just shuffling deck chairs with a guy who views it as a caretaker type job while trying to play Gopher hockey which won't change in that time span. If he was Hastings and coaching and recruiting to that style, fine I could see it. What he's got in place for a rebuild seems like pretty good blocks to me on paper to this point.
Yep... more and more like SiouxSports every time I look.
Tying for the conference championship and making the NCAA tournament as the #5 overall seed is now considered a "Bad Season" around here.
I will ask again since you like to throw blanket statements around without any detail or analysis.
Which players/recruits make you think next year will be any better?
Yep... more and more like SiouxSports every time I look.
Tying for the conference championship and making the NCAA tournament as the #5 overall seed is now considered a "Bad Season" around here.
I will ask again since you like to throw blanket statements around without any detail or analysis.
Which players/recruits make you think next year will be any better?
the counter to that is, which attainable players/recruits do you want to get to make next year better?
I don't love Bob. I think he's done a pretty good job. I'm fine if we move on provided you know exactly who they're hiring and would actually give them resources, hire a GM, etc. and elevate hockey back to what it should be at this institution. This isn't as simple as Barr/Raboin/somehow in delusion land Nightingale walks in the door and your whipping CHL kids in the door right and left and somehow there are now 5 more Minnesota kids in the upper echelon of the Central Scouting rankings.