given what’s happened with Verhoeff coming in as consensus first d man and now dropping down draft boards
which is absurd to me because it logically means that McKenna’s stock has climbed back up a bit, which does align with McKenna being the consensus #1 right now. (see: ESPN, Wheeler)
NHL scouts don’t seem to fully understand how much the NCAA postseason differs from CHL, and how Verhoeff’s usage/role shifted as a result of that.
I feel this year’s draft class (at the very top at least) may go down as one of the worst in recent history, because I can already see that McKenna has a much higher risk of busting relative to other #1 picks but no one seems to be updating their own draft rankings accordingly. Character issues, compete-level issues, one-dimensional perimeter play style, cheats on offense when the puck is in his own zone, a college head coach with ~zero track record of developing pro players, I could go on and on.
And if they’re missing so badly on the #1 projected, then how badly are the scouts missing lower down on their draft boards?
Who knows though, McKenna could certainly prove me wrong and actually turn into that generational talent he was hyped to be.
For those of you that follow the recruiting closely, any guesses on the top 6 center in Canada that is most likely to end up here?
Gophers are a top line center away from being a national title contender. Gonna be a fun year!
given what’s happened with Verhoeff coming in as consensus first d man and now dropping down draft boards
which is absurd to me because it logically means that McKenna’s stock has climbed back up a bit, which does align with McKenna being the consensus #1 right now. (see: ESPN, Wheeler)
NHL scouts don’t seem to fully understand how much the NCAA postseason differs from CHL, and how Verhoeff’s usage/role shifted as a result of that.
I feel this year’s draft class (at the very top at least) may go down as one of the worst in recent history, because I can already see that McKenna has a much higher risk of busting relative to other #1 picks but no one seems to be updating their own draft rankings accordingly. Character issues, compete-level issues, one-dimensional perimeter play style, cheats on offense when the puck is in his own zone, a college head coach with ~zero track record of developing pro players, I could go on and on.
And if they’re missing so badly on the #1 projected, then how badly are the scouts missing lower down on their draft boards?
Who knows though, McKenna could certainly prove me wrong and actually turn into that generational talent he was hyped to be.
tbh I don’t think McKenna has become more the consensus 1. He went from generational, can’t miss, next mcdavid to all the things you mentioned. Preseason there was no way anyone would’ve mentioned stenberg at the same time and now it’s happening.
I think Verhoeff has dropped as he’s looked overwhelmed at times and that’s going to raise questions on as he moves up. Add that to some chl guys having really good seasons and it’s a mosh pit for the d guys.
Fantastic news on Smith. Excellent offseason on the back end.
For those of you that follow the recruiting closely, any guesses on the top 6 center in Canada that is most likely to end up here?
I don't think anyone has a good read on this tbh. Assuming they do add there, it may come out of left field.
So what is the story behind his injury status? I have heard/seen various reports.
he needs major surgery. Injury thought to be lesser but more significant, ducks want operated on
Any idea when he will be available?
too early to know but I think having surgery now would make it likely he’s ready come fall pending how his rehab goes
Hearing the surgery went smoothly — no complications, and he should be ready come October. How long he stays is another question, but worst case he's a great one-year rental.
Awesome news. I love the back end going into next season.
@mikeeruzione11 really do not want to watch this team get murdered on faceoffs again. I think that was the biggest problem with Clark and Pahlsson. They spent their whole shift chasing because they lost the draw.
Reading some of the tweets about Smith coming and seeing some "prospective" line charts and the tongue wagging about landing Dupont makes me wonder....with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
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Reading some of the tweets about Smith coming and seeing some "prospective" line charts and the tongue wagging about landing Dupont makes me wonder....with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
Hard to give up goals from the other blue line. 😉
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with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
Just simply score 6 a night!
All jokes aside, your high enders on the squad I believe are also fairly responsible on the defensive side (Smith's metrics seem to indicate anyways, the W is so offense driven like most high-end junior leagues, things can skew).
It'll even out, but we saw what having a bunch of defensemen without the ability or perhaps the freedom to hop in on plays on the opposite side of the ice does to a team.. Good to see the pendulum swing hard in the other direction.
I was still nervous about offense from the blue line before Smith officialy joined the fold. He is not a panacea which papers over all those concerns but a big piece of the puzzle. I have optimism Rombach makes strides but he is unlikely to ever bring a lot of offense and there are several candidates for more shutdown roles; too many offensive-minded defensemen is the least of my concerns. This blue line looks strong on paper.
Reading some of the tweets about Smith coming and seeing some "prospective" line charts and the tongue wagging about landing Dupont makes me wonder....with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
think I’d classify both Murr and Smith as 2 way defensemen. Harper would’ve been more your offensive defenseman if he would’ve stuck and come in. All metrics seem to indicate these guys put in work on both ends.
I have optimism Rombach makes strides but he is unlikely to ever bring a lot of offense
That's ok, as long as he can become a good stay at home shutdown type of guy, he balances out the core pretty well.
think I’d classify both Murr and Smith as 2 way defensemen.
Murr? Did more work getting out of the d-zone than work inside it in the games I saw this past season. He had an awful January where he got walked around by sub-par competition. He is an above average defenseman and usually isn't a defensive liability but he works more in the one direction than both.
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think I’d classify both Murr and Smith as 2 way defensemen.
Murr? Did more work getting out of the d-zone than work inside it in the games I saw this past season. He had an awful January where he got walked around by sub-par competition. He is an above average defenseman and usually isn't a defensive liability but he works more in the one direction than both.
https://twitter.com/nhlfoley/status/2050648659713204536?s=46
Maybe my brain is just stuck on last year's Gopher squad and how they approached a team defense or lack thereof. Murr's stats get a hand from a team structure that relies on everyone on the ice being accountable defensively. He could play the way he did for the last two years because he had Ralfs Bergmanis as his d-partner who carried that defensive load in the d-zone.
Larson hopefully will bring that same defensive accountable system to the Gophers to allow those offensive minded defenseman to play their game. Again, Murr isn't a defensive liability but he is far from a lock down d-man or a two way defenseman IMO
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Last year's defense couldn't do anything with the puck on their stick which meant struggling to exit the D zone, get through the neutral zone, and maintain offensive zone time. Whipple seemed like the only one who was competent in any of those areas besides LM and he's more of a defense first guy. Like others said him and Rombach can probably handle the shut down D responsibilities and could benefit from partners who are good at carrying the puck and making plays in the offensive zone. Then you just need a third who's not terrible defensively and you should be fine.
Either way the biggest issue with the D last year was the lack of confidence with the puck on their stick which reminded me of the worse Lucia teams that missed the playoffs (or even the one that lost to Notre Dame round 1) and Motzko's first year. You're not gonna have a successful team if the forwards win a forecheck, start cycling and throw it to the point only for whoever the Dman is to just sit at the corner of the blue line and dump it back in making them tire themselves out over and over again. You do need Dmen who are competent at stopping back door passes and being positionally sound in their own zone but generally that's not a rare skill to possess at this level. We'll see about other things like gap control and the ability to break up zone entries but given Larson's background I kinda doubt he's only getting flashy offensive only Dmen (like Morgan Rielly is in the NHL).
Maybe my brain is just stuck on last year's Gopher squad and how they approached a team defense or lack thereof. Murr's stats get a hand from a team structure that relies on everyone on the ice being accountable defensively. He could play the way he did for the last two years because he had Ralfs Bergmanis as his d-partner who carried that defensive load in the d-zone.
Larson hopefully will bring that same defensive accountable system to the Gophers to allow those offensive minded defenseman to play their game. Again, Murr isn't a defensive liability but he is far from a lock down d-man or a two way defenseman IMO
based on who he’s cut, yeah I’d 100% say that’s the plan. On Murr, Foleys cards are pretty damn good at isolating the individual rather than just be team stats. He is a smaller dude though so I’d expect we’re pairing him with one of the larger guys and smith will pair with someone else
So what is the story behind his injury status? I have heard/seen various reports.
he needs major surgery. Injury thought to be lesser but more significant, ducks want operated on
Any idea when he will be available?
too early to know but I think having surgery now would make it likely he’s ready come fall pending how his rehab goes
Hearing the surgery went smoothly — no complications, and he should be ready come October. How long he stays is another question, but worst case he's a great one-year rental.
that’s some excellent news and you deal with the how long down the road for a great player
Is Evan Murr God’s gift to hockey? No, but every team in the country would take him in a heartbeat.
Is Evan Murr God’s gift to hockey? No, but every team in the country would take him in a heartbeat.
this. 2x All-American defenders (esp. right handed ones) don’t grow on trees, and they literally never hit the portal.
Plus it’s likely somewhat harder for Mankato players to earn those All-American votes, considering their school/program is def not a big brand-name one. And Murr’s fancy-stats have probably been distorted a little due to him playing for Mankato and needing to fill a certain role(s). Like, I doubt L.Mitts has very good fancy-stats either from this past year, but it’s not reflective of what he could do in a different role for a better team.
Really good article focused on Brooks Cullen with a little bit of talk about Joey and Wyatt. Not a lot of Gopher specific talk, more about Brooks growing up and his game (late bloomer, intensity, hockey IQ, PKer, etc). Behind a paywall...not sure how to post the text I guess.
Reading some of the tweets about Smith coming and seeing some "prospective" line charts and the tongue wagging about landing Dupont makes me wonder....with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
Smith LEADS the whole CHL with a +65 +/-... I think he'll be fine.
Reading some of the tweets about Smith coming and seeing some "prospective" line charts and the tongue wagging about landing Dupont makes me wonder....with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
Smith LEADS the whole CHL with a +65 +/-... I think he'll be fine.
It's just me but I don't get enamored with +/- stats. Smith has 24 PP points so that skews that number just a bit. Just like Murr, I am certain Smith isn't a defensive liability but he isn't locking down guys or moving guys who are standing in front of the goalie.
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PP points don't count for +/- and being +65 in 65 games is ridiculously impressive for any leagueReading some of the tweets about Smith coming and seeing some "prospective" line charts and the tongue wagging about landing Dupont makes me wonder....with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
Smith LEADS the whole CHL with a +65 +/-... I think he'll be fine.
It's just me but I don't get enamored with +/- stats. Smith has 24 PP points so that skews that number just a bit. Just like Murr, I am certain Smith isn't a defensive liability but he isn't locking down guys or moving guys who are standing in front of the goalie.
I agree that plus minus is just one measure. I do not see how his own points skew plus minus. It remains: was he on the ice for a team goal vs a goal against the team. He gets no more credit if he scored or assisted.
While I agree that +/- isn't the be-all end-all of indicators, +/- doesn't include Powerplay goals (shorthanded goals do count)Reading some of the tweets about Smith coming and seeing some "prospective" line charts and the tongue wagging about landing Dupont makes me wonder....with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
Smith LEADS the whole CHL with a +65 +/-... I think he'll be fine.
It's just me but I don't get enamored with +/- stats. Smith has 24 PP points so that skews that number just a bit. Just like Murr, I am certain Smith isn't a defensive liability but he isn't locking down guys or moving guys who are standing in front of the goalie.
Reading some of the tweets about Smith coming and seeing some "prospective" line charts and the tongue wagging about landing Dupont makes me wonder....with all these offensive defenseman...who is going to play defense?
Smith LEADS the whole CHL with a +65 +/-... I think he'll be fine.
It's just me but I don't get enamored with +/- stats. Smith has 24 PP points so that skews that number just a bit. Just like Murr, I am certain Smith isn't a defensive liability but he isn't locking down guys or moving guys who are standing in front of the goalie.
Did you watch games last year? You seem to have a bone to pick with the upcoming defensive roster, one that is immensely better than what we had last season. Maybe you're upset about Murr leaving the Mavs, but I don't see how anyone can be negative on the work Larson is doing on the back end.
I've been on record saying that +/- is a crap stat for a whole bunch of reasons but +65 is kinda insane and is indicative of getting a lot of ice time on a team that outscores its opponents. And I kinda doubt he's a passenger just coasting off of his teammates given some of his other individual stats. It's not always easy to say how well some of these guys are going to fare against stronger competition in the NCAA but I imagine he won't be worse than Gruba lol.
Smith has 24 PP points so that skews his [+65] just a bit.
PP goals don’t count for +/-. The powerplay unit on the ice doesn’t get a +1 and the PKers don’t get a -1.
That makes his +65 very impressive. PP merchants tend to have a relatively poor +/-, because much of their scoring has no effect on it.
I think it is just sour grapes since Murr left Mankato.
I think it is just sour grapes since Murr left Mankato.
Are they gonna come up with a super clever nickname like they did for Pritchard? 😂
I think it is just sour grapes since Murr left Mankato.
I'm not a Mankato fan. I just have seen Murr play a decent amount and have tempered expectations of his abilities. I don't remember people clamoring for Jake Livingstone after he was two time CCHA defenseman of the year and a All-American. Some of you are Googling his name as you read this.
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I don't remember people clamoring for Jake Livingstone after he was two time CCHA defenseman of the year and a All-American.
Jake Livingstone? He signed his ELC the week after the Fargo regional in 2023...
I’m not convinced he will ever wear a Gopher sweater…or be good enough to do so.
Formerly known as davey j.
I would assume Luca Jarvis. Not sure why so down on him...will see how it shakes out with him next year in Canada.
I would assume Luca Jarvis.
With him moving up to the W, I would say we'll have a better understanding of his "worthiness" come April next year.
That Tri City team just kind of stunk, low scoring, below .500. Better supporting cast may lend itself to better development for him.
I’m not convinced he will ever wear a Gopher sweater…or be good enough to do so.
Well, you did say Bobby Brink was going to come to the U.. 😉
I actually give a @#$* about the Twins
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Just saw Murr at graduation. Asked him who was going to play any defense next year. He told me that it's not his problem
I’ve watched some of Lofgren in the Clark Cup playoffs. He defends very hard and is really physical. Add that to the fact he’s Fargo’s leading dman scorer. Really nice depth piece.
I’ve watched some of Lofgren in the Clark Cup playoffs. He defends very hard and is really physical. Add that to the fact he’s Fargo’s leading dman scorer. Really nice depth piece.
I am still scarred by high scoring hitting dmen who played for the force.
I’ve watched some of Lofgren in the Clark Cup playoffs. He defends very hard and is really physical. Add that to the fact he’s Fargo’s leading dman scorer. Really nice depth piece.
I am still scarred by high scoring hitting dmen who played for the force.
Nate Schmidt didn’t do it for ya, huh? 😉
I’ve watched some of Lofgren in the Clark Cup playoffs. He defends very hard and is really physical. Add that to the fact he’s Fargo’s leading dman scorer. Really nice depth piece.
I am still scarred by high scoring hitting dmen who played for the force.
Nate Schmidt didn’t do it for ya, huh? 😉
it may be that every time i end up in fargo watching hockey at Scheels I still see Leo's face on the walls for some random promo they do.
I still see Leo's face on the walls
In fairness, Leo was a lot of fun in Fargo... We'll just have to hold onto that..
Playing poorly during the regular season won’t get you far. And won’t allow you to play in playoffs.Like clockwork Carter Casey turns it on in the playoffs yet again. He’s got a .937 through three games after posting an .882 in the regular season. If he keeps this up he’s got a good chance of getting drafted.
Throughout his career at Grand Rapids, Waterloo and Medicine Hat he’s done his best work in the playoffs.
Med Hat is a hard one to read. His teammate was .007 Sv% ahead of him. They seem to give a lot of high danger chances but are an offensive wagon so they win. Casey has been lights out in playoffs seeing over 30 shots a game, which is up quite a bit from his regular season workload.
He did also generally get a lot better through the season. It's nice to see someone who shines when the lights get brightest and steal you a game
Not to be a Debbie Downer but Med Hat had 3 NHL picks on D and another D who will be a D1 player...and they had Heger who will get drafted until they traded him to Lethbridge. Rocking a .882 SA% while only facing 25 SOG per game on a wagon of a team that scored just over 5 goals per game in the W isn't great, not a lot of pressure when you know your team is gonna tuck 5 goals per game.
Playing poorly during the regular season won’t get you far. And won’t allow you to play in playoffs.Like clockwork Carter Casey turns it on in the playoffs yet again. He’s got a .937 through three games after posting an .882 in the regular season. If he keeps this up he’s got a good chance of getting drafted.
Throughout his career at Grand Rapids, Waterloo and Medicine Hat he’s done his best work in the playoffs.
Med Hat is a hard one to read. His teammate was .007 Sv% ahead of him. They seem to give a lot of high danger chances but are an offensive wagon so they win. Casey has been lights out in playoffs seeing over 30 shots a game, which is up quite a bit from his regular season workload.
He did also generally get a lot better through the season. It's nice to see someone who shines when the lights get brightest and steal you a game
Not to be a Debbie Downer but Med Hat had 3 NHL picks on D and another D who will be a D1 player...and they had Heger who will get drafted until they traded him to Lethbridge. Rocking a .882 SA% while only facing 25 SOG per game on a wagon of a team that scored just over 5 goals per game in the W isn't great, not a lot of pressure when you know your team is gonna tuck 5 goals per game.
having draft picks is great for skill. do you watch how they play? Same type of deal watching PSU or some of our Gopher teams of hte past. High end skill and run and gun leads to high danger chances coming back the other way at times. There's a reason Med Hat led the league in scoring
There are a great number of goalie scouts who really like his game, athleticism, etc. He's not ranked in any scouting reports just for fun. He is nowhere near ready nor a finished product at this point. I'd suspect he goes in the late rounds but if you're MN, you're definitely not rushing him. Generally, he was better as the year went on. We'll see what next year brings. If he continues to improve, excellent. I don't think anyone has said he's the second coming with where he's at right now