Back of the napkin math plus what I've seen in practice: 1-2 years' worth of men's hockey operating expenses + a stipulation to not discuss this matter publicly, would be a plausible early offer from ASU.
Seems like an odd metric, unless it is the quiet low-ball offer, and I don't think their attorney is new at this. And the “keep quiet” would be very costly -- I cant even imagine how much. I imagine this is ASU-university level financial pain, not just hockey program or athletic dept-level pain.
Of course this is all premature, and we know the only winners are the partners at the law firm. Certainly no one else.
Right off the bat, it says "all 3 coaches" were present.
ASU men's hockey lists 4coaches.
Greg Powers, Head Coach
Alex Hicks, Assistant Coach
Mike Corbett, Assistant Coach
Jimmy Mullin, Assistant Coach
Workout was roughly 1.5 hours long.
I'm no expert but I really doubt it was safe to give the players only 2 breaks for water; one at 20min, one at ~85min (let's say).
Report doesn't say whether the players could stop and drink water freely during the workout, which makes me assume the worst case. Because if they had unrestricted access to water, ASU would've simply said that. So these guys were likely working out for up to 1 hour+ straight w/o being able to freely hydrate.
I haven't yet read the attached safety guidelines that ASU claims to have been following. But my gut instinct, plus a distinct lack of facts from the specific workout where Mayich suffered his injury, tells me ASU f'd up here. I'm sure the prep and immediate emergency response was fine, but the report is extremely light on details from the workout. If those details would exonerate ASU, they'd share them freely.
Right off the bat, it says "all 3 coaches" were present.
ASU men's hockey lists 4coaches.
Greg Powers, Head Coach
Alex Hicks, Assistant Coach
Mike Corbett, Assistant Coach
Jimmy Mullin, Assistant Coach
Workout was roughly 1.5 hours long.
I'm no expert but I really doubt it was safe to give the players only 2 breaks for water; one at 20min, one at ~85min (let's say).
Report doesn't say whether the players could stop and drink water freely during the workout, which makes me assume the worst case. Because if they had unrestricted access to water, ASU would've simply said that. So these guys were likely working out for up to 1 hour+ straight w/o being able to freely hydrate.
I haven't yet read the attached safety guidelines that ASU claims to have been following. But my gut instinct, plus a distinct lack of facts from the specific workout where Mayich suffered his injury, tells me ASU f'd up here. I'm sure the prep and immediate emergency response was fine, but the report is extremely light on details from the workout. If those details would exonerate ASU, they'd share them freely.
Assumedly they were not working out for the full hour, but were also standing on turf in the sun which is effectively baking you. The entire thing is dumb and unsafe. ASU is going to clear themselves and their trainers with ziesel and the coaching staff being the only culpable parties possibly based on this
“ The ASU Hockey team coaching staff requested permission for Ziesel to speak to the team but did not submit a plan of training activities for review by ASU’s strength and conditioning coaches prior to the event.“
The report is going to try say he was cleared, has been there for 8 days (though with minimal outdoor activity and now we decided to do 1-2 hours straight of it) and that this was a freak accident. Def is a civil case if the fam wants it that seems like they didn’t follow a duty of care imo.
Right off the bat, it says "all 3 coaches" were present.
ASU men's hockey lists 4coaches.
Greg Powers, Head Coach
Alex Hicks, Assistant Coach
Mike Corbett, Assistant Coach
Jimmy Mullin, Assistant Coach
Workout was roughly 1.5 hours long.
I'm no expert but I really doubt it was safe to give the players only 2 breaks for water; one at 20min, one at ~85min (let's say).
Report doesn't say whether the players could stop and drink water freely during the workout, which makes me assume the worst case. Because if they had unrestricted access to water, ASU would've simply said that. So these guys were likely working out for up to 1 hour+ straight w/o being able to freely hydrate.
I haven't yet read the attached safety guidelines that ASU claims to have been following. But my gut instinct, plus a distinct lack of facts from the specific workout where Mayich suffered his injury, tells me ASU f'd up here. I'm sure the prep and immediate emergency response was fine, but the report is extremely light on details from the workout. If those details would exonerate ASU, they'd share them freely.
There is a well known measurement called wet bulb temperature, and it related to evaporative cooling. It can be calculated or a thermometer is available on Amazon for $40. My calculation, based on what information is available, indicates -expert or not- you are right. And the lack of acclimatization is an issue not addressed, and in many ways is THE issue.
Even if rosters get expanded to 28 I feel like you should still sit at 26 and hold two spots open for emergency midseason adds. Don’t want too many players bogging down practices. 15F, 8D, 3G is kind of the perfect number.
We finally made it! Outside the MN-MTU top 20 matchup, only a couple weekends of real intrigue early. I don't count exhibitions (BC-MSU obviously would be good here)
UMass-CC will carry some water in the HE-NCHC rankings but more interested to see if CC is back this year or not. Year 6 for Mayotte and still no NCAAs. Has to change at some point and college hockey is more fun with CC being respectable
Merrimack-QU has the potential to carry some water for Merrimack in a year they should be around the bubble in theory. HE is probably the conference i'm most interested to see how it shakes out after how bad it was last year (3 tourney teams and all gone in the regional semis)
Seven Arizona State men’s hockey players asked the university’s president to place the Sun Devils’ coaching staff on administrative leave pending further investigation into the workout that left sophomore transfer Matthew Mayich on life support.
In a 26-page letter sent to ASU president Michael Crow on Monday, the players disputed numerous findings from the university’s initial review of the Aug. 20 workout, writing that Mayich did not receive water and was provided inadequate medical care after his collapse.
Powers initially downplayed Mayich’s condition, the players wrote. They said Powers told them Mayich needed only an IV after he suffered “just a little heat stroke” and he had “seen this a million times.”
After the ambulance carrying Mayich left Sun Angel Stadium, the players wrote, Powers told them they were “closer to making the Frozen Four because of the workout and Matthew having pushed himself to the maximum.” The next day, the players wrote, Powers told them he had received “good news” and Mayich would be fine. The team then hit the ice for practice.
“From what we could tell, at no point did Coach Powers seem to appreciate the severity of the situation,” the players wrote.
Looking down from my High Horse
Morality Police
Not very objective
Mr Positive
Just so many reasons why I know this won't work for the Hawkeyes. The biggest reason is still money. Iowa athletic donors WILL NOT funnel money away from football and basketball to support a niche sport that is not even a high school sport in the state. I don't see Iowa spending $4-6M a year on a sport that may not even earn enough to cover their expenses. Then you have the world of NIL, again what donor will spend $$$ on an athlete in the sport they know little to nothing about. Iowa would have to drop probably $20M to update the onsite facilities to "try" to compete with other B1G schools and some other Minnesota schools to "try" to lure them to Iowa City/Coralville.
I am theofficial Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!
Just so many reasons why I know this won't work for the Hawkeyes. The biggest reason is still money. Iowa athletic donors WILL NOT funnel money away from football and basketball AND WRESTLING to support a niche sport that is not even a high school sport in the state. I don't see Iowa spending $4-6M a year on a sport that may not even earn enough to cover their expenses. Then you have the world of NIL, again what donor will spend $$$ on an athlete in the sport they know little to nothing about. Iowa would have to drop probably $20M to update the onsite facilities to "try" to compete with other B1G schools and some other Minnesota schools to "try" to lure them to Iowa City/Coralville.
Edited.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Seven Arizona State men’s hockey players asked the university’s president to place the Sun Devils’ coaching staff on administrative leave pending further investigation into the workout that left sophomore transfer Matthew Mayich on life support.
In a 26-page letter sent to ASU president Michael Crow on Monday, the players disputed numerous findings from the university’s initial review of the Aug. 20 workout, writing that Mayich did not receive water and was provided inadequate medical care after his collapse.
Powers initially downplayed Mayich’s condition, the players wrote. They said Powers told them Mayich needed only an IV after he suffered “just a little heat stroke” and he had “seen this a million times.”
After the ambulance carrying Mayich left Sun Angel Stadium, the players wrote, Powers told them they were “closer to making the Frozen Four because of the workout and Matthew having pushed himself to the maximum.” The next day, the players wrote, Powers told them he had received “good news” and Mayich would be fine. The team then hit the ice for practice.
“From what we could tell, at no point did Coach Powers seem to appreciate the severity of the situation,” the players wrote.
Just so many reasons why I know this won't work for the Hawkeyes. The biggest reason is still money. Iowa athletic donors WILL NOT funnel money away from football and basketball to support a niche sport that is not even a high school sport in the state. I don't see Iowa spending $4-6M a year on a sport that may not even earn enough to cover their expenses. Then you have the world of NIL, again what donor will spend $$$ on an athlete in the sport they know little to nothing about. Iowa would have to drop probably $20M to update the onsite facilities to "try" to compete with other B1G schools and some other Minnesota schools to "try" to lure them to Iowa City/Coralville.
From ESPN, TBH I didnt compare the articles, but the ESPN one is certainly damning form first to last sentence.
Just a small excerpt from the ESPN article:
"Ziesel's attorney, Buddy Rake, told ESPN that players were never denied water and that his client did not determine water breaks because the school has a hydration policy. He also said that no player vomited during the workout and that Mayich did not show any signs of distress until after Ziesel left, shortly before the final activity.
"The workout was not punishing unless you consider flutter kicks, pushups planks, and sprints punishing," he said.
No one took Mayich's core temperature after he collapsed and he was kept in direct sun for several minutes before he was moved, according to the players. They said there was no cold water immersion tub or ice chest on the field, as required by ASU policy. "Nothing effectively cooled him" in the 17 minutes it took emergency medical services to arrive, the players wrote.
The players said Powers told them afterward that Mayich's condition was "'just a little heat stroke' and 'heat exhaustion,' that he had 'seen this a million times,' and that Matthew 'just needs an IV.’""
My response: “yes, counselor, all those activities are considered punishing in dangerous heat”. “Mr. Powers, please define ‘a little heat stroke’."
This is worse and worse for ASU, and they have done a terrible job of managing it so far.
The players are doing the right thing, and standing up for someone who they may have known for one or two days.
Is this a “shut down the program and let the players transfer” type of situation. I do not know any precedent for this, and of course the players are in the midst of a semester of school, but what are the alternatives?
1. Allow Powers and staff to stay on?
2. Bring in a whole new staff three days before season is to begin -- leading to attempts to reschedule and/or forfeit games?
3. Allow players to transfer now (probably not workable)?
4. Allow players to transfer at mid season and build in guidelines (roster exemptions, not counting against year of eligibility of player -- Im brainstorming here)?
At what point does ASU move from ‘saving the hockey program’ to ‘saving the athletic department’ damage control?
Just so many reasons why I know this won't work for the Hawkeyes. The biggest reason is still money. Iowa athletic donors WILL NOT funnel money away from football and basketball to support a niche sport that is not even a high school sport in the state. I don't see Iowa spending $4-6M a year on a sport that may not even earn enough to cover their expenses. Then you have the world of NIL, again what donor will spend $$$ on an athlete in the sport they know little to nothing about. Iowa would have to drop probably $20M to update the onsite facilities to "try" to compete with other B1G schools and some other Minnesota schools to "try" to lure them to Iowa City/Coralville.
I blame their hideous uniforms.
And so much support for hockey the ECHL team was shut down....
The attorney for the player and the family (I am assuming he represents the player as well), responded that the entire coaching staff should have been placed on leave. Not sure if I disagree....
Also the article stated body temp was 107.5 F. Two comments. Some digital thermometers top off at 107.5. If they initiated ice therapy pre hospital, which should have been done as the hospital was alerted to a head related illness, his peak temp was likely several degrees above this.
No sure why the AD was in a “players only” meeting -- perhaps invited.
The attorney for the player and the family (I am assuming he represents the player as well), responded that the entire coaching staff should have been placed on leave. Not sure if I disagree....
Also the article stated body temp was 107.5 F. Two comments. Some digital thermometers top off at 107.5. If they initiated ice therapy pre hospital, which should have been done as the hospital was alerted to a head related illness, his peak temp was likely several degrees above this.
No sure why the AD was in a “players only” meeting -- perhaps invited.
This has been six weeks.
They should’ve all been put on leave if they participated in the workout.
and agree 100% they badly failed this kid in the action when the heat illness was finally recognized. Time is tissue when it comes to the brain.
tbh I don’t really see how the AD stays employed after this as this is an egregious failure to follow department policy from the start it seems and the failure to act until now looks infinitely worse with each passing day
It's almost like ASU is refusing to make any changes because they believe that any change would be an admission of guilt. I am most definitely NOT a lawyer, but I know we've got at least a couple that are on GPL, so if what I say here is wrong, I certainly welcome any correction.
From a legal standpoint, making a change after an adverse event is generally NOT an admission of guilt on its own. For example, if I have two or three steps leading up to my door, without a railing, and someone falls off and injures themselves, if I go an add a railing afterward, they can't argue in court "look, he added a railing, he knew it was dangerous." No, I didn't know then, but I do now, so, I'm fixing it. On the flip side, if I don't add the railing, and a year later someone else takes the same fall, they CAN argue "he already had someone fall like this, so he knew that it was something that needed fixing, but he didn't, so, he owes me more for being careless."
Obviously, from a PR perspective, that works differently, but, they're so completely and utterly screwed on PR front from how the last month and a half have played out, there's no point in still holding back on making a real, meaningful change.
One of the Assistant AD's tweeted out some "clarity" on the captain group. The C's and two of the A's are permanent and will rotate one other A per game. I think they are just rewarding some guys for their roles that they have exemplified on and off the ice within the team. It is amusing how many people are commenting about this on X though.
I am theofficial Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!
“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
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“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
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“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
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That is such a bizarre system I first thought it had to be satire.
The two C's and two A's (all seniors) make complete sense but these other three are all in their second year (two are underclassmen) in the program so I don't get it. It is comical to see most of the college hockey world comment on this on X...and then watching the Chattin' Chuckleheads troll those people.
I am theofficial Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!
Plante-Plante-Plante line could be debuting tonight at Amsoil vs Long Island. tUMD last run at a Frozen Four (during the Sandelin era) begins tonight. 🐶
@jankwi01 Has little to do with upcoming recruiting classes, this season with rarely occurring returning Hobey winner & Zam & Shaug & Victor & Arnott up front with blue line featuring Ty & Kleber & Pionk & Cleveland shud be a WAGON. If they have a G emerge by mid-season…they’ll be tuff to handle. And then a half dozen of them will likely sign pro deals after this season. So ya, last jail break run before Sandy retires in few years is my thought.
@jankwi01 Has little to do with upcoming recruiting classes, this season with rarely occurring returning Hobey winner & Zam & Shaug & Victor & Arnott up front with blue line featuring Ty & Kleber & Pionk & Cleveland shud be a WAGON. If they have a G emerge by mid-season…they’ll be tuff to handle. And then a half dozen of them will likely sign pro deals after this season. So ya, last jail break run before Sandy retires in few years is my thought.
Gonna be devastating for dogs fans when they lose to the gophers in the FF semis before the gophers take out Michigan to win the title
Watching BC @ Michigan State exhibition on B1G+ right now. Camera has a big smudge or water droplet in left-center of frame. Just frickin wipe it down my God! Do they not see their own feed live??
Stoked for another year full of this sloppy, careless work by the many awful B1G+ crews these poverty schools manage to find.
It's an embarrassment, and I'm beyond sick of the "it's student-run so be nice!" excuse. 1 year of B1G+ costs $90/year at face value.
@jankwi01 Has little to do with upcoming recruiting classes, this season with rarely occurring returning Hobey winner & Zam & Shaug & Victor & Arnott up front with blue line featuring Ty & Kleber & Pionk & Cleveland shud be a WAGON. If they have a G emerge by mid-season…they’ll be tuff to handle. And then a half dozen of them will likely sign pro deals after this season. So ya, last jail break run before Sandy retires in few years is my thought.
Gonna be devastating for dogs fans when they lose to the gophers in the FF semis before the gophers take out Michigan to win the title
Our little brothers up north will love seeing Wyatt Cullen make snow angels after he scores the natty-clinching GWG. 9 seconds into OT
@jankwi01 Has little to do with upcoming recruiting classes, this season with rarely occurring returning Hobey winner & Zam & Shaug & Victor & Arnott up front with blue line featuring Ty & Kleber & Pionk & Cleveland shud be a WAGON. If they have a G emerge by mid-season…they’ll be tuff to handle. And then a half dozen of them will likely sign pro deals after this season. So ya, last jail break run before Sandy retires in few years is my thought.
Gonna be devastating for dogs fans when they lose to the gophers in the FF semis before the gophers take out Michigan to win the title
I’d be delighted if the UMD 🐶 & Gophers met in the 2027 Frozen Four…for both squads! 😉 And most Gopher fans would too.
