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frozen4champs
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The quest for their 1st Super Bowl appearance since Super Bowl XI starts now. They need a coach first.

Should the Vikings get nervous that they may not get the guy they wanted?

[media] https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1493607353828188160 [/media]

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gator
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The Power Trip morning show and especially Meat Sauce was babbling about this.

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
frozen4champs
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Sounds like it will happen on Thursday.

[media] https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1493641742066884611 [/media]

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g-manpuck
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PA said on KFAN this morning that he got a message from the Vikings that he was asked to be at TCO on Thursday for a Vikings Entertainment event. He couldn't confirm that this was going to be the subject but did guess that it was.

I am the official Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!


   
frozen4champs
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Oh Boy

[media] https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1503153379018788865 [/media]

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team2tank
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frozen4champs wrote:

What is the Cap hit?


   
frozen4champs
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team2tank wrote:

frozen4champs wrote:

What is the Cap hit?

This is what I found..

[media] https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1503153545893367811 [/media]

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team2tank
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frozen4champs wrote:

team2tank wrote:

frozen4champs wrote:

What is the Cap hit?

This is what I found..

[media] https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1503153545893367811 [/media]br>

Makes sense.

No way he was a Viking and playing the last year under his other deal. Same as Rodgers.

Either restructure or he was gone.


   
Bigbeer
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Great.

Not sure if this makes it harder or easier to trade him but I’m not optimistic. Sounds like they’re not talking to Houston about Watson.


   
Jerry Peters fka DAWoJ
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Bigbeer wrote:

Great.

Not sure if this makes it harder or easier to trade him but I’m not optimistic. Sounds like they’re not talking to Houston about Watson.

I wouldn't take Watson if he agreed to play for free.


   
Sunbone
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I’ve already soured on the new regime.


   
The Rube
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Watson still has civil suits to deal with.

Cousins hasn't had the same OC for 2 years in a row w/MN.

He HAD leads in games, and the D blew it.

Finally: O-line. Questionable.

Kirk. Is. Not. The. Issue.

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Beauner
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Interesting to see if this extension makes him a more interesting trade piece. Lower cap hits and no longer a one year deal would likely make it more palatable for a trade partner. Obviously with the NTC he has to approve it but if one of the major hangups on a trade was his cap hit this season, I'd guess this eases some concern.


   
Thirty-Four
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The Rube wrote:

Watson still has civil suits to deal with.

Cousins hasn't had the same OC for 2 years in a row w/MN.

He HAD leads in games, and the D blew it.

Finally: O-line. Questionable.

Kirk. Is. Not. The. Issue.

Agreed on Watson. Cousins’ contract is an issue. I don’t thinking kicking the can ahead another year is a great plan, we’ll see.


   




J22
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sunbone wrote:

I’ve already soured on the new regime.

If Cousins plays another down for the Vikings, then they're already failures.


   
The Rube
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Kirk's number is big, don't get me wrong. There are rumors of Danielle to BUF, that would help the cap, also.

There is no pleasing the Kirk haters. I can only say that the blame should be placed elsewhere.

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
Beauner
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The Rube wrote:

Watson still has civil suits to deal with.

Cousins hasn't had the same OC for 2 years in a row w/MN.

He HAD leads in games, and the D blew it.

Finally: O-line. Questionable.

Kirk. Is. Not. The. Issue.

Four QBs played 16 or more games last season that got sacked as infrequently as Kirk did. Kirk was sacked 28 times. So was Mahomes and Mac Jones (Mahomes is significantly more elusive obviously) were both sacked 28 times. Josh Allen was sacked 26 times and is significantly more mobile. Tom Brady was sacked 22 times.

The OL was considerably better than "questionable" last season.


   
The Rube
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It's deeper than sacks, and you know this. ;) It's amount of time before they get to the QB. Kirk threw it away a few times, rightfully, to avoid the sack.

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
frozen4champs
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LoL

[media] https://twitter.com/AndyMacSports/status/1503176650753822722 [/media]

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Bladepuller
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I think I've pointed out before that pressure up the middle is faster to get to the QB & also limits visibility for the QB to get rid of the ball.

RG & to a lesser degree the OC is a problem(s) for the Vikings.

Kirk is what he is; a professional who doesn't get hurt & can't carry an offense. He can run one though.


   
Beauner
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The Rube wrote:

It's deeper than sacks, and you know this. ;) It's amount of time before they get to the QB. Kirk threw it away a few times, rightfully, to avoid the sack.

It is deeper than sacks. But he was 5th in YPA and 10th in completion percentage using the same 16 game baseline. So this meme that he threw the ball away a ton or did nothing but checkdowns is just wrong. The interior OL had unquestionably some very poor games, but to act like he was constantly under pressure is wrong.


   




Beauner
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Bladepuller wrote:

I think I've pointed out before that pressure up the middle is faster to get to the QB & also limits visibility for the QB to get rid of the ball.

RG & to a lesser degree the OC is a problem(s) for the Vikings.

Kirk is what he is; a professional who doesn't get hurt & can't carry an offense. He can run one though.

Udoh was definitely below average at RG. Hopefully Wyatt Davis can step up next season.


   
The Rube
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Beauner wrote:

The Rube wrote:

It's deeper than sacks, and you know this. ;) It's amount of time before they get to the QB. Kirk threw it away a few times, rightfully, to avoid the sack.

It is deeper than sacks. But he was 5th in YPA and 10th in completion percentage using the same 16 game baseline. So this meme that he threw the ball away a ton or did nothing but checkdowns is just wrong. The interior OL had unquestionably some very poor games, but to act like he was constantly under pressure is wrong.

He wasn't constantly under pressure. The O-Line did contribute a lot to his woes, or should I say blame, in the matter.

He can manage a game, and put the team in place to win a game. Sometimes lead them to a win, with heroics and such. Is he a Brady/ARodg/Allen/Mahomes? Hell no. I still would put him top 10 QB in the league.

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
ScoobyDoo
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Top 10?. No.


   
The Rube
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ScoobyDoo wrote:
Top 10?. No.

Start naming the 10 better than him. I already named 4. Lamar Jackson is 5. Go. Name five QBs better than Kirk.

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
Bertogliat
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Kirk isn’t a bad WB. He just isn’t good enough to will a team to victory. No team fears Kirk Cousins. He isn’t good enough to have a cap killing contract. So I am happy he’s restructured. I still think he’s overpaid.

But the Vikes were bare assed over a barrel.


   
The Rube
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Bertogliat wrote:

Kirk isn’t a bad WB. He just isn’t good enough to will a team to victory. No team fears Kirk Cousins. He isn’t good enough to have a cap killing contract. So I am happy he’s restructured. I still think he’s overpaid.

But the Vikes were bare assed over a barrel.

He won't WIN a game with last minute heroics. But he'll be damned if he loses one for you. He'll put points on the board. Then, let the rest of the team finish up.

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
Beauner
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The Rube wrote:

Bertogliat wrote:

Kirk isn’t a bad WB. He just isn’t good enough to will a team to victory. No team fears Kirk Cousins. He isn’t good enough to have a cap killing contract. So I am happy he’s restructured. I still think he’s overpaid.

But the Vikes were bare assed over a barrel.

He won't WIN a game with last minute heroics. But he'll be damned if he loses one for you. He'll put points on the board. Then, let the rest of the team finish up.

He put the team in position to win via "last minute heroics" multiple times over the last couple seasons... kickers missing chip shots and defensive collapses aren't his fault. Unless people want to blame him for not spending enough time on the go-ahead drive.

In the last two seasons he has 7 fourth quarter comebacks/GW drives on his record. And that only counts for games the team WON. I can think of 3-4 more that would have fit that category if the defense didn't piss down their legs (or the kicker could make a chip shot).

Hell, even the Bengals game he drove the team down the field for a FG to send to OT and had the team at the edge of FG range again in OT before Dalvin's not-a-fumble was ruled a fumble. ?‍♂️ They were down 21-7 and 24-14 at different times in the fourth quarter and forced OT.


   




Thirty-Four
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Kirk is a top 12-15 QB, which can lead to a title in certain circumstances. I don’t believe, however, that a QB rated as near mediocre, has won a Super Bowl while so highly compensated, comparable, in the cap era.


   
Sunbone
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Anybody that thinks that Cousins is going to lead a team to a Super Bowl is out of their mind in my opinion. I’m hoping Beauner’s right that the extension will make him easier to trade. But I’m really doubting that is what they are thinking.


   
Thirty-Four
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The scary thing to me on reviewing the Cousin’s situation here? If Jay Cutler had any of whatever public mojo Cousin’s has: He might still be our quarterback. ?


   
The Rube
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The Rube wrote:

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Top 10?. No.

Start naming the 10 better than him. I already named 4. Lamar Jackson is 5. Go. Name five QBs better than Kirk.

Since he couldn't do it, Thrity-Four, maybe you can. :)

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
ScoobyDoo
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Kirk ranks 13th. Not top 10.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-end-of-2021-nfl-season-rankings


   
JWG
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sunbone wrote:

Anybody that thinks that Cousins is going to lead a team to a Super Bowl is out of their mind in my opinion. I’m hoping Beauner’s right that the extension will make him easier to trade. But I’m really doubting that is what they are thinking.

He has a no trade clause.

But maybe had to do it to get a deal that was cap friendly as they were running out of time to make the 3/16 deadline to be under the cap.


   
Hammy
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I don't mind the deal. If there was some obvious (realistic) alternative that gave the team a better opportunity to win, I'd be all ears.

But I am not convinced there is somebody else out there (within reason from a trade cost perspective) that would be a better option. Somebody like Watson would be expensive in a trade (and also from a cap hit).

I certainly doubt any rookie QB in this class would step in and be better.

Unless you just want to blow it all up and (probably) stink on offense (which probably won't sit well with guys like Jefferson and Cook), I don't see getting rid of Cousins as the right move right now.


   




Beauner
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ScoobyDoo wrote:

Kirk is better than at least two QBs on that list ahead of him, IMO.

I'm taking him over Derek Carr and I'm without question taking him over Ryan Tannehill. For me (and apparently Amari Cooper) he's about on par with Dak Prescott. Top 10ish (maybe 11),


   
Beauner
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Hammy wrote:

I don't mind the deal. If there was some obvious (realistic) alternative that gave the team a better opportunity to win, I'd be all ears.

But I am not convinced there is somebody else out there (within reason from a trade cost perspective) that would be a better option. Somebody like Watson would be expensive in a trade (and also from a cap hit).

I certainly doubt any rookie QB in this class would step in and be better.

Unless you just want to blow it all up and (probably) stink on offense (which probably won't sit well with guys like Jefferson and Cook), I don't see getting rid of Cousins as the right move right now.

Exactly.

And I don't think the new coaching staff and front office took this job as their first premier role and said "Let's blow this thing apart and tank for 3 years" because there is no guarantee they'd keep their job, let alone find another job if/when they got fired.

I would assume KOC looked at the roster and said "We can win with these offensive weapons" (which they probably can, TBH, JJ is a top 10 WR, Thielen is top 20-25, Dalvin is one of the 3-4 best RBs in the league, Irv Smith Jr./Tyler Conklin are both effective pass catchers at TE). I doubt a new coach is going to take a job and say "Let's dismantle this whole team and suck for 3 years while we try to rebuild, and then i get 4 games of my fourth season to keep my job!"


   
JWG
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Unless your QB is Mahommes, Rodgers, or Brady (again) you're never satisfied with whoever is at that position. Cousins is a good QB and a top QB in the league. You can choose to believe it or not, that's fine, but he is not the single limiting factor to the Vikings being great. More teams in the league than not would take Cousins as their QB.


   
J22
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The Rube wrote:

The Rube wrote:

ScoobyDoo wrote:
Top 10?. No.

Start naming the 10 better than him. I already named 4. Lamar Jackson is 5. Go. Name five QBs better than Kirk.

Since he couldn't do it, Thrity-Four, maybe you can. :)

Mahomes

Rodgers

Brady

Watson

Prescott

Jackson

Burrow

Allen

Murray

Wilson

Stafford

Herbert

There's 12 that aren't even debatable. Cousins fits in somewhere after those 12 with guys like Ryan, Wentz, Garappolo, Carr, Tannehill, and Jones.


   
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Even if you exclude Watson due to his legal issues…the other 11 are not debatable. Prescott can make something out of nothing, Cousins can’t. Lamar Jackson brings a running element that no other QB brings and was a league MVP. All the others are in a completely different tier than Cousins. I hope KOC can coach him up, and hopefully he will be more aggressive and not so much a check down Charlie under KOC. But in terms of improvising when a play breaks down, Kirk is what he is ☝️


   
Bigbeer
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Beauner wrote:

ScoobyDoo wrote:

Kirk is better than at least two QBs on that list ahead of him, IMO.

I'm taking him over Derek Carr and I'm without question taking him over Ryan Tannehill. For me (and apparently Amari Cooper) he's about on par with Dak Prescott. Top 10ish (maybe 11),

While that’s true they also have Lamar Jackson and 3-4 other young QBs ranked behind him on that list that should definitely be ahead of him if you factor in age and potential. He’s middle of the pack making too much money. Once Spielman extended his deal the first time it screwed up the Vikings for years. And why he’s getting all guaranteed money is beyond me.

And the Dolphins just signed Bridgewater to be Tua’s backup. I know he’s from Miami but the Vikings couldn’t get him to come back here and be a backup? My assumption is they are already putting as much money as they can into the QB position.


   
Bigbeer
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Question asked to Willie McGinest on NFL Network:

“Vikings extended Cousins, is this the right move for them?”

His answer:”it’s the right move for them, but not anybody else…he’s made $230 million and his career record is 61-62-2”


   




Bertogliat
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He’s the Bert Blyleven of football.


   
frozen4champs
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[media] https://twitter.com/SKORNorth/status/1503532350378024967 [/media]

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J22
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Bertogliat wrote:

He’s the Bert Blyleven of football.

Blyleven showed up in big games


   
Sunbone
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J22 wrote:

Bertogliat wrote:

He’s the Bert Blyleven of football.

Blyleven showed up in big games

And won two titles. So, nothing like Cousins at all.


   
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Bigbeer wrote:

Question asked to Willie McGinest on NFL Network:

“Vikings extended Cousins, is this the right move for them?”

His answer:”it’s the right move for them, but not anybody else…he’s made $230 million and his career record is 61-62-2”

What a perfect answer.


   
The Rube
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ScoobyDoo wrote:

Well, using passer rating for a career, Cousins is better than Brady: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_career_passer_rating_leaders

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. ;)

Edit: better yet, IMO, I think Kirk is about 7th-8th best in the league right now (the top 5 are rock solid, cannot argue otherwise: Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Jackson).

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
The Rube
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frozen4champs wrote:

Bills fans are very sad, but they understand. They think the Vikes made a great move here, given MN's D situation.

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   




frozen4champs
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[media] https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1503669950262784009 [/media]

I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.


   
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