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[Closed] Minnesota Twins – 2022

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Chris83
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Twins now equidistant from first place and Kansas City Royals...11 games.


   
JWG
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The Twins are going to use injuries as an excuse. Unfortunate ad the fall apart was started before that. 


   
Beauner
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Posted by: @jwg

The Twins are going to use injuries as an excuse. Unfortunate ad the fall apart was started before that. 

Did it?

The team lost Paddack in April and Ober in June. Then Mahle got hurt after they made a move for an frontline SP.  Kiriloff and Larnach both had their seasons ended in June (Larnach) and July (Kiriloff). Lewis was out for the year in May.

 

With all those they were mostly able to tread water for a while with Buxton and Polanco in the lineup. 

Celestino has come plummeting back down to earth and so has Miranda after Miranda was incredible for a couple months.

They didn't kill them once, but it's hard for me to argue that it wasn't death by a thousand cuts.


   
Cowgirl
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The Twins are completely rebranding.  
I was told by someone who works at Target Field that they are getting rid of Minnie and Paul, the TC logo will change, and the “m” logo as we know it will look something akin to the marlins logo:

The only jersey colors for next year will be white, navy, and cream.  They've already placed their orders and are locked in for five years to the new design.   Apparently the wives got to help with some of design input (and they wondered why $500 fur coats wouldn’t be a good seller). 
This all to try and attract the younger crowd.  Sounds like it’s a fine way to alienate the older crowd so expect some weird clothing.  
New jerseys with a different logo that still cost $300 aren’t what kids will buy, nor will it create more interest in a game that is steadily becoming less like the game we knew as kids.  It certainly isn’t going to make the team any better.  

the new logos will drop November 18th. 
can’t say I’m looking forward to it.  :/


   
Slap Shot
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Posted by: @cowgirl

The Twins are completely rebranding.  
I was told by someone who works at Target Field that they are getting rid of Minnie and Paul, the TC logo will change, and the “m” logo as we know it will look something akin to the marlins logo:

The only jersey colors for next year will be white, navy, and cream.  They've already placed their orders and are locked in for five years to the new design.   Apparently the wives got to help with some of design input (and they wondered why $500 fur coats wouldn’t be a good seller). 
This all to try and attract the younger crowd.  Sounds like it’s a fine way to alienate the older crowd so expect some weird clothing.  
New jerseys with a different logo that still cost $300 aren’t what kids will buy, nor will it create more interest in a game that is steadily becoming less like the game we knew as kids.  It certainly isn’t going to make the team any better.  

the new logos will drop November 18th. 
can’t say I’m looking forward to it.  :/

 

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!


   
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Bertogliat
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Pohlads, time to sell.


   
Composer
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Non-sequiter


   




Bertogliat
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If they're trying to attract a younger crowd, the Twins need new ownership who is willing to invest in pitching.  The current business model is not working and rebranding isn't going to change anything.  

Go ahead and take down the giant Minny and Paul sign in centerfield and replace it with a lazer show and rave bar.  You're pitching will still suck.


   
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streakygopher
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The minny and paul logo is sacrosanct. 

 

Apparently, the Twins are as bad in the marketing office as they are on the field. What are they going to ditch next, the interlacing T/C logo?

 

Oh well, I'm sure the change to the logo will get them into the playoffs.

 

 

 

 


   
gator
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Is the Twins marketing dept. ran by the same group of idiots that run the "U" marketing dept?!?!?!

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
HandyNotDan
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Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @jwg

The Twins are going to use injuries as an excuse. Unfortunate ad the fall apart was started before that. 

Did it?

The team lost Paddack in April and Ober in June. Then Mahle got hurt after they made a move for an frontline SP.  Kiriloff and Larnach both had their seasons ended in June (Larnach) and July (Kiriloff). Lewis was out for the year in May.

 

With all those they were mostly able to tread water for a while with Buxton and Polanco in the lineup. 

Celestino has come plummeting back down to earth and so has Miranda after Miranda was incredible for a couple months.

They didn't kill them once, but it's hard for me to argue that it wasn't death by a thousand cuts.

Lots of teams have injuries...they find ways to not fall off the cliff.  The Twins depth is a problem and their lack of pitching is bordering on malpractice.  The team is not built to withstand the riggers of the season imho.  Of course it also isn't built to win in the postseason so...

In other words...The Twins Way sucks.


   
Beauner
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Posted by: @handyman
Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @jwg

The Twins are going to use injuries as an excuse. Unfortunate ad the fall apart was started before that. 

Did it?

The team lost Paddack in April and Ober in June. Then Mahle got hurt after they made a move for an frontline SP.  Kiriloff and Larnach both had their seasons ended in June (Larnach) and July (Kiriloff). Lewis was out for the year in May.

 

With all those they were mostly able to tread water for a while with Buxton and Polanco in the lineup. 

Celestino has come plummeting back down to earth and so has Miranda after Miranda was incredible for a couple months.

They didn't kill them once, but it's hard for me to argue that it wasn't death by a thousand cuts.

Lots of teams have injuries...they find ways to not fall off the cliff.  The Twins depth is a problem and their lack of pitching is bordering on malpractice.  The team is not built to withstand the riggers of the season imho.  Of course it also isn't built to win in the postseason so...

In other words...The Twins Way sucks.

The problem is the guys who were supposed to be the depth also got hurt. When you're playing the depth's depth a lot of teams are going to be in trouble. Especially teams like the Twins who were counting on some of their young talent to come up and be difference makers. 

You could also make the argument that if any Twins team was going to be "built for the postseason" this would have been it (if they stayed healthy). Three very good SPs with Ryan, Gray, and Mahle, plus a guy like Ober, who has been very effective, as a game 4 SP. With fireballers like Duran and Lopez out of the bullpen late in the game. 

 

Even with all the injuries they're going to finish (probably) a couple games below .500 which IIRC was right around where Vegas had them at the beginning of the season (IIRC they were like 80.5 or 81.5).

 

Next year they return Maeda, Mahle, Paddack (I assume he'll be close to ready near the beginning of the season since he got hurt so early), Alcala, and Stashak from injury. 

A rotation of Gray-Ryan-Maeda-Mahle-Paddack/Ober/Winder is a pretty good rotation. With Alcala, Jax, Stashak, Duran, Thielbar, and Lopez in the bullpen they've got some arms to work with. Simeon Woods-Richardson (the pitcher acquired in the Berrios trade) has been outstanding in AA and AAA this summer as well and is potentially knocking on the door for next season as well. 

The big question in the air is what happens with Correa. I expect he'll probably opt out and try to explore free agency but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he comes back for another season either because this is potentially a loaded free agency window for shortstops (Trea Turner is a FA, Bogaerts can opt out, Dansby Swanson is a FA). Correa could see that and decide to come back for another season as the highest paid infielder in the league, and then test the FA waters in 2023 too.  

 

They just need to figure out a way to get Kiriloff's wrist healthy and keep it healthy. Nick Gordon's bat has definitely impressed me and his outfield defense is seemingly getting better each day. I wouldn't totally hate them moving off Kepler, who just hasn't been nearly as good as he looked 3 years ago (there is some hope that the shift ban helps him since he pulls on the ground a lot, but that's minimal hope IMO). 

 

Obviously a frustrating season to be soooooo bad the last month and a half but for the first time in a long time I feel like our starting rotation going into next season actually looks really good. 


   
Bertogliat
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If the starting rotation has promise it is a shame they won't be allowed to pitch past the 5th inning.  You better also have a good bullpen with that rigid managerial philosophy. 

I'd be curious if they continue with that into the playoffs.


   
Beauner
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Posted by: @bertogliat

If the starting rotation has promise it is a shame they won't be allowed to pitch past the 5th inning.  You better also have a good bullpen with that rigid managerial philosophy. 

I'd be curious if they continue with that into the playoffs.

With Stashak and Alcala set to return to the bullpen next season after missing all (or virtually all) season, combined with the return of Lopez, Duran, Jax, hopefully Thielbar and Fulmer they'd have 7 very solid bullpen options for middle to later innings. 

 

I'm curious to see what they'll do with the pitching coach. 


   




frozen4champs
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https://twitter.com/dohyoungpark/status/1575576079599013888

I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.


   
Karlsson
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Not a big Jake Cave fan, but this is great. Also, he’s not wrong. 

https://twitter.com/jakecave8/status/1576044234830143488?s=46&t=o4-JSVQAWZ_xvl6F1YlSCA


   
The Rube
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I would say that was an extraordinary effort, so no E. 

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
Steve MN
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They called THAT an error?!?!?

I've barely followed the team this year, and wouldn't know Jake Cave if he sat down next to me at the bar and bought me a drink, but how on earth is that anything but a hit?  Nothing really abnormal in today's game on the positioning, decent play, no screwup on the throw.

If the defensive play would have been made and I say "Dayum, what a play" ... Not making that play can't possibly be an error

B1G refs... corrupt, or just incompetent?


   
Greyeagle
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Guys named Brooks make that play. Not too many others do. 

“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”

― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
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Greyeagle
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Happy birthday, Sir!

https://twitter.com/baseballhall/status/1576215406724931585?s=20&t=xgIp-E_4R-D9rvSWgVyb5Q

“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”

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Composer
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Now there have been at least two people complaining about the Twins’ depth.  No team has a 40 man roster of players all major league ready.  The Twins have gone way deeper than 40.  Sometimes injuries are an ‘excuse’.  


   




Beauner
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To echo Composer's post above 

 

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1576586526435475457?t=d7U8DWRs6QnrS8rF1qd30g&s=19


   
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College Hockey Addict
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With the loss last night the Twins are now 0-3 this month. Although, this is not surprising the Twins never win in October. Wink #Ugh #MaybeNextYear


   
Beauner
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Arraez is currently about 4pts ahead of Aaron Judge for the batting title, which would block Judge from winning the AL Triple Crown. 

He aggravated his tight hamstring in their series against Detroit IIRC and has not played the last two games. 

 

If Arraez wins the batting title, at least one Twin will beat a Yankee in October 😉 


   
College Hockey Addict
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And Yankee fans are pissed saying the Twins are resting Arraez just so he can win the batting title. Oh darn. 


   
Bertogliat
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Posted by: @karlsson

Not a big Jake Cave fan, but this is great. Also, he’s not wrong. 

https://twitter.com/jakecave8/status/1576044234830143488?s=46&t=o4-JSVQAWZ_xvl6F1YlSCA

The bases were empty.  Why did they take 3 earned runs off the books?


   
College Hockey Addict
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BTW when are people going to stop acting like total RBIs is a big three stat (triple crown)?

Much more important is percentage of guys knocked in.

If two guys play a similar amount of games and one hits with 300 guys on base driving in 120 and the other guy comes up with 200 guys on base and drives in 100. The second hitter is more clutch even though he drove in 20 less.

 


   




College Hockey Addict
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@bertogliat

The Twins scored a bunch of runs with two outs where if an out is made on the play in question the inning would have been over before the Twins scored the two out runs since there would have been three outs.

IMO this is not an error it is a shift induced infield hit. 


   
Karlsson
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Posted by: @collegehockeyaddict

And Yankee fans are pissed saying the Twins are resting Arraez just so he can win the batting title. Oh darn. 

I think a big reason they’re mad is because they think Reusse and Zulgad are something other than hate-click harvesters.


   
College Hockey Addict
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@karlsson Yep Reusse and Zulgad are all about the click bait. Got to keep their engagement up. In today's world it is part of the job. Although I do think trolling people goes along with their personalities too so it is a win/win situation for them.


   
Beauner
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Posted by: @bertogliat
Posted by: @karlsson

Not a big Jake Cave fan, but this is great. Also, he’s not wrong. 

https://twitter.com/jakecave8/status/1576044234830143488?s=46&t=o4-JSVQAWZ_xvl6F1YlSCA

The bases were empty.  Why did they take 3 earned runs off the books?

If they consider Cave's play an error, he would have been the second out of the inning so he would be an unearned run. Arraez lined out two batters later which would have been the third out. Then Correa singled to score two runs.


   
HandyNotDan
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Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @handyman
Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @jwg

The Twins are going to use injuries as an excuse. Unfortunate ad the fall apart was started before that. 

Did it?

The team lost Paddack in April and Ober in June. Then Mahle got hurt after they made a move for an frontline SP.  Kiriloff and Larnach both had their seasons ended in June (Larnach) and July (Kiriloff). Lewis was out for the year in May.

 

With all those they were mostly able to tread water for a while with Buxton and Polanco in the lineup. 

Celestino has come plummeting back down to earth and so has Miranda after Miranda was incredible for a couple months.

They didn't kill them once, but it's hard for me to argue that it wasn't death by a thousand cuts.

Lots of teams have injuries...they find ways to not fall off the cliff.  The Twins depth is a problem and their lack of pitching is bordering on malpractice.  The team is not built to withstand the riggers of the season imho.  Of course it also isn't built to win in the postseason so...

In other words...The Twins Way sucks.

The problem is the guys who were supposed to be the depth also got hurt. When you're playing the depth's depth a lot of teams are going to be in trouble. Especially teams like the Twins who were counting on some of their young talent to come up and be difference makers. 

You could also make the argument that if any Twins team was going to be "built for the postseason" this would have been it (if they stayed healthy). Three very good SPs with Ryan, Gray, and Mahle, plus a guy like Ober, who has been very effective, as a game 4 SP. With fireballers like Duran and Lopez out of the bullpen late in the game. 

 

Even with all the injuries they're going to finish (probably) a couple games below .500 which IIRC was right around where Vegas had them at the beginning of the season (IIRC they were like 80.5 or 81.5).

 

Next year they return Maeda, Mahle, Paddack (I assume he'll be close to ready near the beginning of the season since he got hurt so early), Alcala, and Stashak from injury. 

A rotation of Gray-Ryan-Maeda-Mahle-Paddack/Ober/Winder is a pretty good rotation. With Alcala, Jax, Stashak, Duran, Thielbar, and Lopez in the bullpen they've got some arms to work with. Simeon Woods-Richardson (the pitcher acquired in the Berrios trade) has been outstanding in AA and AAA this summer as well and is potentially knocking on the door for next season as well. 

The big question in the air is what happens with Correa. I expect he'll probably opt out and try to explore free agency but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he comes back for another season either because this is potentially a loaded free agency window for shortstops (Trea Turner is a FA, Bogaerts can opt out, Dansby Swanson is a FA). Correa could see that and decide to come back for another season as the highest paid infielder in the league, and then test the FA waters in 2023 too.  

 

They just need to figure out a way to get Kiriloff's wrist healthy and keep it healthy. Nick Gordon's bat has definitely impressed me and his outfield defense is seemingly getting better each day. I wouldn't totally hate them moving off Kepler, who just hasn't been nearly as good as he looked 3 years ago (there is some hope that the shift ban helps him since he pulls on the ground a lot, but that's minimal hope IMO). 

 

Obviously a frustrating season to be soooooo bad the last month and a half but for the first time in a long time I feel like our starting rotation going into next season actually looks really good. 

Look man, I get you are the Twins "Ducky and Bunny" Guy and I respect that...but jesus this is PA discussing a 5-11 Vikings level, almost approaching Sid level.

I could go point by point, but there is no reason.  The problem with the "these guys are coming back from injury" canard is 1) we don't know they will come back effective and 2) we can't assume they won't get hurt again next year.  That is what I mean by "The Twins Way sucks" it is basically assuming next year everything will be more advantageous with none of the problems.  Byron Buxton is the perfect microcosm of everything that the Twins stand for and why they fail.  He has a ton of talent, literally all of the tools to be a superstar.  Every year people like Aaron Gleeman and John Bonnes (along with other baseball people around here) pimp out how his stats are phenomenal and his OPS/OPP/HIV/WARwhatisitgoodfor is fantastic and puts him in the upper echelon of players and blah blah blah.  They talk about how he is the guy who will lead the Twins to the postseason and any possible success.  Meanwhile the guy has only topped 100 games in a season once. (2017)  His average games per season since he entered the league is 73.5! If he was on a team that had more top line talent around him he wouldn't need to shoulder the load so much and taking days off or being on the injured list wouldn't be a big deal...when he is the anchor of your team though that is not a recipe for success.

As for the pitching, sorry but that rotation is not scaring anyone.  

And what is funny is, people will fall for all of the same crap this offseason and pretend this time it will be different.  Gleeman and The Geek will put out their "These are the guys the Twins should/will go after in Free Agency" podcast and we will get quotes from the team about how they plan to be aggressive, and they will get no one of value and fill almost none of the holes.  Then we will hear those same pundits and the team say the things you are saying right now "well we have all these guys coming back from injury so in effect it is like we made a signing because those guys had value before!1!1!" and then we will get a generous helping of "Byron Buxton this and Alex Kiriloff that" and rinse and repeat.  Then, come September, after another uneventful trade season and a lot of injuries we will all be right back here commiserating about all the games lost due to injury and whether depth is an issue. 


   
College Hockey Addict
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The starting rotation for next year is likely Ryan, Gray, Mahle, Meada, and Ober. Four of the five were either on the IL multiple times this season or missed the whole season.

They pitched 147, 119, 120, 0, and 56 innings.

When guys are repeatedly hurt what would make people think there isn't a good chance they miss significant time next year?

When they do the next men up next year will be Winder, Varland, and Woods-Richards. Winder was on the IL multiple times this season (only pitched 64 innings) and the other two have almost no major league experience.

Year and year out the Twins margin for error is low. Teams that have middle of the pack payrolls need so many things to go well to compete with the high payroll teams.

This year 9 of the top 12 payroll teams made the playoffs (which is normal). Boston Red Sox, Chicago White Sox, and Los Angeles Angels didn't. 

The Twins payroll is 16th out 30.

Seattle, Cleveland and Tampa Bay made the playoffs this season with payrolls lower then the Twins.

Seattle just broke the longest streak of not making the playoffs. Cleveland is the only one of the three to ever win the World Series which was back in 1920 and 1948.

For the past 30 years every year the World Series winner has had payroll in the top 12 and had a payroll higher than the Twins except Kansas City in 2015.

There are 30 teams but really only about 12 have a legitimate chance to win the World Series. 

I will be rooting for Seattle to buck this 30 year trend but I will be greatly surprised if they make it past the division round.

The city of Tampa Bay has won enough lately with the Lightening (twice) and the Buccaneers winning championships the past two years.

I have a hard team rooting for divisional opponents (in this case Cleveland).

So for me it's Seattle in the AL and San Diego in the NL. Based on my track record of rooting for teams that haven't won championships they will both likely be out in the first round. Smile  

 


   
Cowgirl
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Can I get the tldr versions of these posts? 

?


   




The Rube
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Posted by: @cowgirl

Can I get the tldr versions of these posts? 

?

We're gonna be in the hunt for the division title at best...again. Hope to see you next year!

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
YoungEagle
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I am intrigued to see Kepler play without teams shifting against him next year. He may surprise people if he stays healthy. 

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GPL's Resident Cabin Enthusiast & Cadets Hockey Fan


   
Composer
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So I did the maths for today.

If Arraez goes….                   Judge need to go….to pass him

0-5                                       3-5 or 2-4 or 2-3 (won’t win with 2-2 or 1-1)

0-4                                       3-5 or 3-4  (Won’t win with 2-4 or worse)

0-3, 0-2 or 0-1.                     Can’t catch Arraez.

 


   
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Calculate Figure It Out GIF

   
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streakygopher
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Posted by: @youngeagle

I am intrigued to see Kepler play without teams shifting against him next year. He may surprise people if he stays healthy. 

That will be interesting...and hopefully he'll be wearing a different uniform.


   
Beauner
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @handyman
Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @handyman
Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @jwg

The Twins are going to use injuries as an excuse. Unfortunate ad the fall apart was started before that. 

Did it?

The team lost Paddack in April and Ober in June. Then Mahle got hurt after they made a move for an frontline SP.  Kiriloff and Larnach both had their seasons ended in June (Larnach) and July (Kiriloff). Lewis was out for the year in May.

 

With all those they were mostly able to tread water for a while with Buxton and Polanco in the lineup. 

Celestino has come plummeting back down to earth and so has Miranda after Miranda was incredible for a couple months.

They didn't kill them once, but it's hard for me to argue that it wasn't death by a thousand cuts.

Lots of teams have injuries...they find ways to not fall off the cliff.  The Twins depth is a problem and their lack of pitching is bordering on malpractice.  The team is not built to withstand the riggers of the season imho.  Of course it also isn't built to win in the postseason so...

In other words...The Twins Way sucks.

The problem is the guys who were supposed to be the depth also got hurt. When you're playing the depth's depth a lot of teams are going to be in trouble. Especially teams like the Twins who were counting on some of their young talent to come up and be difference makers. 

You could also make the argument that if any Twins team was going to be "built for the postseason" this would have been it (if they stayed healthy). Three very good SPs with Ryan, Gray, and Mahle, plus a guy like Ober, who has been very effective, as a game 4 SP. With fireballers like Duran and Lopez out of the bullpen late in the game. 

 

Even with all the injuries they're going to finish (probably) a couple games below .500 which IIRC was right around where Vegas had them at the beginning of the season (IIRC they were like 80.5 or 81.5).

 

Next year they return Maeda, Mahle, Paddack (I assume he'll be close to ready near the beginning of the season since he got hurt so early), Alcala, and Stashak from injury. 

A rotation of Gray-Ryan-Maeda-Mahle-Paddack/Ober/Winder is a pretty good rotation. With Alcala, Jax, Stashak, Duran, Thielbar, and Lopez in the bullpen they've got some arms to work with. Simeon Woods-Richardson (the pitcher acquired in the Berrios trade) has been outstanding in AA and AAA this summer as well and is potentially knocking on the door for next season as well. 

The big question in the air is what happens with Correa. I expect he'll probably opt out and try to explore free agency but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he comes back for another season either because this is potentially a loaded free agency window for shortstops (Trea Turner is a FA, Bogaerts can opt out, Dansby Swanson is a FA). Correa could see that and decide to come back for another season as the highest paid infielder in the league, and then test the FA waters in 2023 too.  

 

They just need to figure out a way to get Kiriloff's wrist healthy and keep it healthy. Nick Gordon's bat has definitely impressed me and his outfield defense is seemingly getting better each day. I wouldn't totally hate them moving off Kepler, who just hasn't been nearly as good as he looked 3 years ago (there is some hope that the shift ban helps him since he pulls on the ground a lot, but that's minimal hope IMO). 

 

Obviously a frustrating season to be soooooo bad the last month and a half but for the first time in a long time I feel like our starting rotation going into next season actually looks really good. 

Look man, I get you are the Twins "Ducky and Bunny" Guy and I respect that...but jesus this is PA discussing a 5-11 Vikings level, almost approaching Sid level.

I could go point by point, but there is no reason.  The problem with the "these guys are coming back from injury" canard is 1) we don't know they will come back effective and 2) we can't assume they won't get hurt again next year.  That is what I mean by "The Twins Way sucks" it is basically assuming next year everything will be more advantageous with none of the problems.  Byron Buxton is the perfect microcosm of everything that the Twins stand for and why they fail.  He has a ton of talent, literally all of the tools to be a superstar.  Every year people like Aaron Gleeman and John Bonnes (along with other baseball people around here) pimp out how his stats are phenomenal and his OPS/OPP/HIV/WARwhatisitgoodfor is fantastic and puts him in the upper echelon of players and blah blah blah.  They talk about how he is the guy who will lead the Twins to the postseason and any possible success.  Meanwhile the guy has only topped 100 games in a season once. (2017)  His average games per season since he entered the league is 73.5! If he was on a team that had more top line talent around him he wouldn't need to shoulder the load so much and taking days off or being on the injured list wouldn't be a big deal...when he is the anchor of your team though that is not a recipe for success.

As for the pitching, sorry but that rotation is not scaring anyone.  

And what is funny is, people will fall for all of the same crap this offseason and pretend this time it will be different.  Gleeman and The Geek will put out their "These are the guys the Twins should/will go after in Free Agency" podcast and we will get quotes from the team about how they plan to be aggressive, and they will get no one of value and fill almost none of the holes.  Then we will hear those same pundits and the team say the things you are saying right now "well we have all these guys coming back from injury so in effect it is like we made a signing because those guys had value before!1!1!" and then we will get a generous helping of "Byron Buxton this and Alex Kiriloff that" and rinse and repeat.  Then, come September, after another uneventful trade season and a lot of injuries we will all be right back here commiserating about all the games lost due to injury and whether depth is an issue. 

I've been called a lot of things when I talk about the Twins but "ducky and bunny" isn't really one I hear very often. Maybe it just seems like it compared to everyone else just coming into this thread to talk about how crappy they are when they lose a game. Remember a few years ago when I was the only one criticizing Gardenhire and talking about how bad a manager he was? 😉 

I guess the "get no one of value during free agency" and "another uneventful trade season" rings a bit hollow for me considering they signed the highest paid position player in baseball during FA and made two big trades at/near the deadline and one before the season even began. They didn't work out. Sometimes that's the way life goes.


   
Bertogliat
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Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @handyman
Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @handyman
Posted by: @beauner
Posted by: @jwg

The Twins are going to use injuries as an excuse. Unfortunate ad the fall apart was started before that. 

Did it?

The team lost Paddack in April and Ober in June. Then Mahle got hurt after they made a move for an frontline SP.  Kiriloff and Larnach both had their seasons ended in June (Larnach) and July (Kiriloff). Lewis was out for the year in May.

 

With all those they were mostly able to tread water for a while with Buxton and Polanco in the lineup. 

Celestino has come plummeting back down to earth and so has Miranda after Miranda was incredible for a couple months.

They didn't kill them once, but it's hard for me to argue that it wasn't death by a thousand cuts.

Lots of teams have injuries...they find ways to not fall off the cliff.  The Twins depth is a problem and their lack of pitching is bordering on malpractice.  The team is not built to withstand the riggers of the season imho.  Of course it also isn't built to win in the postseason so...

In other words...The Twins Way sucks.

The problem is the guys who were supposed to be the depth also got hurt. When you're playing the depth's depth a lot of teams are going to be in trouble. Especially teams like the Twins who were counting on some of their young talent to come up and be difference makers. 

You could also make the argument that if any Twins team was going to be "built for the postseason" this would have been it (if they stayed healthy). Three very good SPs with Ryan, Gray, and Mahle, plus a guy like Ober, who has been very effective, as a game 4 SP. With fireballers like Duran and Lopez out of the bullpen late in the game. 

 

Even with all the injuries they're going to finish (probably) a couple games below .500 which IIRC was right around where Vegas had them at the beginning of the season (IIRC they were like 80.5 or 81.5).

 

Next year they return Maeda, Mahle, Paddack (I assume he'll be close to ready near the beginning of the season since he got hurt so early), Alcala, and Stashak from injury. 

A rotation of Gray-Ryan-Maeda-Mahle-Paddack/Ober/Winder is a pretty good rotation. With Alcala, Jax, Stashak, Duran, Thielbar, and Lopez in the bullpen they've got some arms to work with. Simeon Woods-Richardson (the pitcher acquired in the Berrios trade) has been outstanding in AA and AAA this summer as well and is potentially knocking on the door for next season as well. 

The big question in the air is what happens with Correa. I expect he'll probably opt out and try to explore free agency but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he comes back for another season either because this is potentially a loaded free agency window for shortstops (Trea Turner is a FA, Bogaerts can opt out, Dansby Swanson is a FA). Correa could see that and decide to come back for another season as the highest paid infielder in the league, and then test the FA waters in 2023 too.  

 

They just need to figure out a way to get Kiriloff's wrist healthy and keep it healthy. Nick Gordon's bat has definitely impressed me and his outfield defense is seemingly getting better each day. I wouldn't totally hate them moving off Kepler, who just hasn't been nearly as good as he looked 3 years ago (there is some hope that the shift ban helps him since he pulls on the ground a lot, but that's minimal hope IMO). 

 

Obviously a frustrating season to be soooooo bad the last month and a half but for the first time in a long time I feel like our starting rotation going into next season actually looks really good. 

Look man, I get you are the Twins "Ducky and Bunny" Guy and I respect that...but jesus this is PA discussing a 5-11 Vikings level, almost approaching Sid level.

I could go point by point, but there is no reason.  The problem with the "these guys are coming back from injury" canard is 1) we don't know they will come back effective and 2) we can't assume they won't get hurt again next year.  That is what I mean by "The Twins Way sucks" it is basically assuming next year everything will be more advantageous with none of the problems.  Byron Buxton is the perfect microcosm of everything that the Twins stand for and why they fail.  He has a ton of talent, literally all of the tools to be a superstar.  Every year people like Aaron Gleeman and John Bonnes (along with other baseball people around here) pimp out how his stats are phenomenal and his OPS/OPP/HIV/WARwhatisitgoodfor is fantastic and puts him in the upper echelon of players and blah blah blah.  They talk about how he is the guy who will lead the Twins to the postseason and any possible success.  Meanwhile the guy has only topped 100 games in a season once. (2017)  His average games per season since he entered the league is 73.5! If he was on a team that had more top line talent around him he wouldn't need to shoulder the load so much and taking days off or being on the injured list wouldn't be a big deal...when he is the anchor of your team though that is not a recipe for success.

As for the pitching, sorry but that rotation is not scaring anyone.  

And what is funny is, people will fall for all of the same crap this offseason and pretend this time it will be different.  Gleeman and The Geek will put out their "These are the guys the Twins should/will go after in Free Agency" podcast and we will get quotes from the team about how they plan to be aggressive, and they will get no one of value and fill almost none of the holes.  Then we will hear those same pundits and the team say the things you are saying right now "well we have all these guys coming back from injury so in effect it is like we made a signing because those guys had value before!1!1!" and then we will get a generous helping of "Byron Buxton this and Alex Kiriloff that" and rinse and repeat.  Then, come September, after another uneventful trade season and a lot of injuries we will all be right back here commiserating about all the games lost due to injury and whether depth is an issue. 

I've been called a lot of things when I talk about the Twins but "ducky and bunny" isn't really one I hear very often. Maybe it just seems like it compared to everyone else just coming into this thread to talk about how crappy they are when they lose a game. Remember a few years ago when I was the only one criticizing Gardenhire and talking about how bad a manager he was? 😉 

I guess the "get no one of value during free agency" and "another uneventful trade season" rings a bit hollow for me considering they signed the highest paid position player in baseball during FA and made two big trades at/near the deadline and one before the season even began. They didn't work out. Sometimes that's the way life goes.

The "get no one of value in free agency" is likely from me.  But if that is from me it is always directed at pitchers.  The Twins NEVER pay for upgrades to pitching.

And I get if the Twins want to be middle of the pack for salary most years considering we are from a middle of the pack market.  But when the stars align and you have the offense to be dangerous, you have to spend more (Top 10 in salary?) to upgrade the pitching or you're just wasting everyone's time.  These owners are horse shit.


   




Beauner
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Posted by: @collegehockeyaddict

The starting rotation for next year is likely Ryan, Gray, Mahle, Meada, and Ober. Four of the five were either on the IL multiple times this season or missed the whole season.

They pitched 147, 119, 120, 0, and 56 innings.

When guys are repeatedly hurt what would make people think there isn't a good chance they miss significant time next year?

When they do the next men up next year will be Winder, Varland, and Woods-Richards. Winder was on the IL multiple times this season (only pitched 64 innings) and the other two have almost no major league experience.

 

This is a viable point for the most part. Ober does have a history of injury issues which is why they are cautious with him. Gray has mostly been healthy (this is only the second season in his career where he'll finish the season with fewer than 26 starts, and I don't know for sure if he was hurt the other year - he may have been sent down based on his numbers that season). Ryan has mostly been healthy. Mahle has mostly been healthy. IIRC this is Maeda's first ever injury. Paddack did have TJS a couple years ago and had it again this season which is not super common (repeat UCL injuries/TJS). 

Winder was battling shoulder impingement issues this summer which is a bit weird and concerning, IMO. 

The key is not having ALL of these guys hurt all at the same time. 

My guess is the Twins didn't envision having Dylan Bundy in the rotation all season. They were hoping to be able to DFA him or move him to a long reliever role at some point once our younger guys came up and showed they were ready. But then everyone else got hurt and Bundy was the only one who stayed healthy all year. That's not a great recipe for success. Ultimately they got about what they expected from Bundy and Archer (a few really good starts, a few bad starts, and a lot of mediocre starts). The problem is all the guys they were expecting to take their jobs half way through the season got hurt or regressed. 

 

Lineup-wise, Kepler has fallen off the face of the planet from his peak a couple years ago. An OPS of .666 is embarrassingly bad. Particularly from an everyday corner outfielder. Hopefully between Larnach, Kiriloff, Wallner, or Free Agent RF X they can find a viable replacement to start out there and move Kepler to a spot starter/4th outfielder role. 

I like Urshela well enough to want him to stick around, Polanco is fine at 2B (not spectacular but not going to kill you). 

They need to find a solution at catcher because Sanchez and Jeffers both looked pretty brutal this year. 


   
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Posted by: @composer

So I did the maths for today.

If Arraez goes….                   Judge need to go….to pass him

0-5                                       3-5 or 2-4 or 2-3 (won’t win with 2-2 or 1-1)

0-4                                       3-5 or 3-4  (Won’t win with 2-4 or worse)

0-3, 0-2 or 0-1.                     Can’t catch Arraez.

 

Yankee fans:


Ill Be Back Jim Carrey GIF

   
Karlsson
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https://twitter.com/yankees/status/1577714206861922311?s=46&t=Ww0bO7K3DH4g6JIjsz2uUQ

Judge isn’t starting. If it is a full day off, Arraez takes the AL batting title as long as he doesn’t go 0-8. 


   
Greyeagle
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Posted by: @karlsson

Judge isn’t starting. If it is a full day off, Arraez takes the AL batting title as long as he doesn’t go 0-8. 


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Before anyone gets too cocky, a little research turned up at least three 0-8’s in MLB history.


   
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Posted by: @karlsson

Judge isn’t starting. If it is a full day off, Arraez takes the AL batting title as long as he doesn’t go 0-8. 

Good thing he hit #62 last night. Guarantee he would be in the starting lineup tonight if he didn't.

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
College Hockey Addict
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So far Arraez has walks in both the 1st and 2nd innings. Apparently Davis Martin (the White Sox pitcher) doesn't want to improve Judge's chances to win the batting title by trying to get Arraez out and dropping his batting average. Grinning #Conspiracy Wink  

Are Yankee fans now going to get pissed at Davis?

 


   




Karlsson
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They are actually still blaming the Twins somehow. It’s delicious.

Edit: Arraez pulled for a pinch runner. That’ll do it.


   
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