That was a pretty impressive fake punt by AZ
The dolphins clearly did not want to win this game.
Fine with me. Get them out of the playoffs.
HUGE game next Monday night: Bills/Bengals?! Hooboy. On that note, just warning y'all, might want to get some tissues:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1607182035277484034
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Touchdown Tommy does it again
Never mind sucking the first 3 quarters of the game against a terrible team. 😉
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I still currently put Brady top 5 QB in the league this year, don't get me wrong, arguably in the 6-7 range if you wanna throw bias into it, BUT...
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I still currently put Brady top 5 QB in the league this year, don't get me wrong, arguably in the 6-7 range if you wanna throw bias into it, BUT...
He’s 45 years old, well past his prime, has OL injury issues and should have retired after last year. Somehow still pulling comebacks out of his ass. He’s the GOAT.
I still currently put Brady top 5 QB in the league this year, don't get me wrong, arguably in the 6-7 range if you wanna throw bias into it, BUT...
He’s 45 years old, well past his prime, has OL injury issues and should have retired after last year. Somehow still pulling comebacks out of his ass. He’s the GOAT.
That's the thing about "comebacks." I hate that stat. Many times, the team shouldn't be in that position in the first place, if the QB is that good. 😉
I agree he should have retired last year.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
That's the thing about "comebacks." I hate that stat. Many times, the team shouldn't be in that position in the first place, if the QB is that good. 😉
In today's NFL I agree. The offence has all the advantage in game winning drive. Some of these elite QB's can pinpoint a pass. And with the defense not allowed to touch a receiver, it's not hard for a good QB to make a drive.
Keep your stick on the ice...
I agree he should have retired last year.
My money is he'll be back next year somewhere other than Tampa. He'll sign a one year contract with a legit contender who's a QB away from a Super Bowl run. Miami, Vegas or Detroit?!?!?!
Keep your stick on the ice...
Good Lord now we're discounting the importance of being able to generate coming from behind - because all of the wins without a comeback are just forgotten. Or maybe in the NFL it is rare for any team to dominate the competition game to game or year to year? The other team is also trying to win. I mean Rube your unhealthy disdain for Brady is already well known- don't double down on it. ?
There are only 4 teams in the NFC with a positive point differential.
1) SF at +145
2) PHL at +137
3) DAL at +131
4) MN at +005 (LOL)
if MN makes it out of the 2nd round I’ll be stunned.
Good Lord now we're discounting the importance of being able to generate coming from behind - because all of the wins without a comeback are just forgotten. Or maybe in the NFL it is rare for any team to dominate the competition game to game or year to year? The other team is also trying to win. I mean Rube your unhealthy disdain for Brady is already well known- don't double down on it. ?
I don't hate Brady at all anymore, not since he left the AFC East. 
Helluva player, I just hate the comeback stat and how that somehow makes a great QB.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
if MN makes it out of the 2nd round I’ll be stunned.
You do know San Fran's QB is Brock Purdy?!?!?!
Keep your stick on the ice...
I don't think SF's QB matters. They have CMC and a great defense. 😉
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I don't think SF's QB matters. They have CMC and a great defense. 😉
True... but this past week vs. Washington. San Fran very well could've lost to Washington at home if it wasn't for their defense going nuts mid-way through the 4th quarter.
Keep your stick on the ice...
That was a bad experiment
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1607432421061939203
I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.
Good Lord now we're discounting the importance of being able to generate coming from behind - because all of the wins without a comeback are just forgotten. Or maybe in the NFL it is rare for any team to dominate the competition game to game or year to year? The other team is also trying to win. I mean Rube your unhealthy disdain for Brady is already well known- don't double down on it. ?
I don't hate Brady at all anymore, not since he left the AFC East.
Helluva player, I just hate the comeback stat and how that somehow makes a great QB.
Brady has a hell of a lot more to his resume than just comeback wins, never mind the stat surely doesn't hurt the way you think it does.
Good Lord now we're discounting the importance of being able to generate coming from behind - because all of the wins without a comeback are just forgotten. Or maybe in the NFL it is rare for any team to dominate the competition game to game or year to year? The other team is also trying to win. I mean Rube your unhealthy disdain for Brady is already well known- don't double down on it. ?
I don't hate Brady at all anymore, not since he left the AFC East.
Helluva player, I just hate the comeback stat and how that somehow makes a great QB.
Brady has a hell of a lot more to his resume than just comeback wins, never mind the stat surely doesn't hurt the way you think it does.
I don't think @the-rube is discrediting Brady at all. He just thinks the comeback stat is over inflated making a great QB. And he is referring to the comeback stat for all Qb's not just Brady.
Keep your stick on the ice...
^^^^^^^^^^^this
Elway is the second QB to come to mind, honestly, as far as that stat goes.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Tua in concussion protocol. I honestly fear he may be broken for life if this keeps up. 🙁 This is the 2nd time this season (should have been the 3rd).
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Aikman is such a blowhard that likes to hear himself talk. How that press box has enough room for both Aikman's and Buck's egos is amazing.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Tua in concussion protocol. I honestly fear he may be broken for life if this keeps up. 🙁 This is the 2nd time this season (should have been the 3rd).
Once you get your first, you seem so prone to get more. It just seems your head becomes so much more fragile.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Tua in concussion protocol. I honestly fear he may be broken for life if this keeps up. 🙁 This is the 2nd time this season (should have been the 3rd).
Once you get your first, you seem so prone to get more. It just seems your head becomes so much more fragile.
It does, and I hate to see it happen. I hope Tua takes a long look at would could end up happening, and makes the right decision about his future. This latest one could be nothing, we don't know yet, but it could also be everything. I would rather not see more CTE cases in the future...
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Good Lord now we're discounting the importance of being able to generate coming from behind - because all of the wins without a comeback are just forgotten. Or maybe in the NFL it is rare for any team to dominate the competition game to game or year to year? The other team is also trying to win. I mean Rube your unhealthy disdain for Brady is already well known- don't double down on it. ?
I don't hate Brady at all anymore, not since he left the AFC East.
Helluva player, I just hate the comeback stat and how that somehow makes a great QB.
Brady has a hell of a lot more to his resume than just comeback wins, never mind the stat surely doesn't hurt the way you think it does.
I don't think @the-rube is discrediting Brady at all. He just thinks the comeback stat is over inflated making a great QB. And he is referring to the comeback stat for all Qb's not just Brady.
He's discredited Brady for years and the comeback stat is legit no matter the QB.
How have I discredited Brady? I've said the comeback stat is a terrible stat, and so is the rings argument (the latter goes for all sports).
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
How have I discredited Brady? I've said the comeback stat is a terrible stat, and so is the rings argument (the latter goes for all sports).
Doug Williams has a ring and Dan Marino doesn't is the PERFECT illustration for that.
Keep your stick on the ice...
How have I discredited Brady? I've said the comeback stat is a terrible stat, and so is the rings argument (the latter goes for all sports).
You're asking how you've discredited Brady while in the same post 1) Claim the comeback stat is overrated and 2) saying rings don't matter. Brady doesn't have 1 he has 6 (7?) including one with TB meaning not coached by BB, and he ranks at/near the top for every metric and measuring stick out there.
You've also said iirc you would only begrudgingly rate him in the Top 5 all time. It's ridiculously absurd. Equally absurd is using the Doug Williams to Marino comparison to downplay Brady's GOATness.
It's ok you two can die on this hill alone. ?
How have I discredited Brady? I've said the comeback stat is a terrible stat, and so is the rings argument (the latter goes for all sports).
You're asking how you've discredited Brady while in the same post 1) Claim the comeback stat is overrated and 2) saying rings don't matter. Brady doesn't have 1 he has 6 (7?) including one with TB meaning not coached by BB, and he ranks at/near the top for every metric and measuring stick out there.
You've also said iirc you would only begrudgingly rate him in the Top 5 all time. It's ridiculously absurd. Equally absurd is using the Doug Williams to Marino comparison to downplay Brady's GOATness.
It's ok you two can die on this hill alone. ?
I haven't read the whole thread to know what comeback stat you are referring to. But comebacks can be a bit overrated as it can be argued the reason the team had to come back is because they started the game poorly. Kirk's comeback two weeks ago is incredible. But it was partially incredible because his first half was gawd awful. If he had just played a good game from the beginning there would be no talk about this great comeback.
I would argue that SB wins and comebacks are 2 of the most important metrics for judging a QB. Coming from behind doesn’t mean you played terrible most of the game. And really all the non-HOF QBs to win SBs had some of the greatest defenses in league history propping them up.
I would argue that SB wins and comebacks are 2 of the most important metrics for judging a QB. Coming from behind doesn’t mean you played terrible most of the game. And really all the non-HOF QBs to win SBs had some of the greatest defenses in league history propping them up.
There's the rings argument going down the tubes. 😉 In team sports, rings don't mean as much as they are made out to be.
And half the Vikings fans here say Cousins is crap and the Vikes are not good. Cousins just broke the single season record for comebacks this past Saturday. Huh.
I said Brady is top 5 this season, despite the season he's had. All Time? Yes, top 5. GOAT? THAT is arguable.
Y'all know that Brady doesn't *really* walk on water, right? 😉
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
You can't make this up. Let's see who gets the hilarity in this:
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
That was a bad experiment
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1607432421061939203
This reeks of "We hired Hackett thinking we were going to finalize a trade for Aaron Rodgers. Then we didn't and we realized Hackett sucks."
I would argue that SB wins and comebacks are 2 of the most important metrics for judging a QB. Coming from behind doesn’t mean you played terrible most of the game. And really all the non-HOF QBs to win SBs had some of the greatest defenses in league history propping them up.
There's the rings argument going down the tubes. 😉 In team sports, rings don't mean as much as they are made out to be.
And half the Vikings fans here say Cousins is crap and the Vikes are not good. Cousins just broke the single season record for comebacks this past Saturday. Huh.
I said Brady is top 5 this season, despite the season he's had. All Time? Yes, top 5. GOAT? THAT is arguable.
Y'all know that Brady doesn't *really* walk on water, right? 😉
1 ring…?…maybe. 7? That’s unparalleled
I would argue that SB wins and comebacks are 2 of the most important metrics for judging a QB. Coming from behind doesn’t mean you played terrible most of the game. And really all the non-HOF QBs to win SBs had some of the greatest defenses in league history propping them up.
There's the rings argument going down the tubes. 😉 In team sports, rings don't mean as much as they are made out to be.
And half the Vikings fans here say Cousins is crap and the Vikes are not good. Cousins just broke the single season record for comebacks this past Saturday. Huh.
I said Brady is top 5 this season, despite the season he's had. All Time? Yes, top 5. GOAT? THAT is arguable.
Y'all know that Brady doesn't *really* walk on water, right? 😉
1 ring…?…maybe. 7? That’s unparalleled
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?
Dilfer has a ring. So does Joe Flacco. That's just the NFL.
Luc Longley has more rings than Charles Barkley.
Ray Bourque has ONE ring. ONE. And his long time team gave him permission to go to a new team to get it.
I could go on, but I am hoping you get the point.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Don Beebe has been in 6 Super Bowls. He's not even in the top 300 WRs all time. Just saying.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Brady has played in TEN Super Bowls and his team has won 7 of 10. ANYBODY who doesn’t acknowledge Tom Brady as the GOAT QB of all time is too obtuse to even count with their fingers ?? And this comes from someone who hates the Patriots and only rooted for Brady during the Super Bowl he played for Tampa Bay. There simply is no argument for those who apply a minimal amount of objectivity to the question at hand. And throw in as an andennum that Brady is the All Time leader in passing yards & passing TD’s End of story.I would argue that SB wins and comebacks are 2 of the most important metrics for judging a QB. Coming from behind doesn’t mean you played terrible most of the game. And really all the non-HOF QBs to win SBs had some of the greatest defenses in league history propping them up.
There's the rings argument going down the tubes. 😉 In team sports, rings don't mean as much as they are made out to be.
And half the Vikings fans here say Cousins is crap and the Vikes are not good. Cousins just broke the single season record for comebacks this past Saturday. Huh.
I said Brady is top 5 this season, despite the season he's had. All Time? Yes, top 5. GOAT? THAT is arguable.
Y'all know that Brady doesn't *really* walk on water, right? 😉
Sad news out of Pittsburg, Franco Harris dies day before his number is retired and the 50th anniversary of the Immaculate Reception.
https://twitter.com/nfl_dovkleiman/status/1605529262483771393?s=61&t=S2kqBR6fZgZ72F6rkETxvg
Stumbled across this view that I’d never seen before. Kind of cool.
https://twitter.com/highlghtheaven/status/1495084613076758536?s=20&t=RvwXudc9wxwc3TyWGhnxaQ
The Raiders have told Carr to stay away from team for the rest of the season
Aloha!
I would argue that SB wins and comebacks are 2 of the most important metrics for judging a QB. Coming from behind doesn’t mean you played terrible most of the game. And really all the non-HOF QBs to win SBs had some of the greatest defenses in league history propping them up.
There's the rings argument going down the tubes. 😉 In team sports, rings don't mean as much as they are made out to be.
And half the Vikings fans here say Cousins is crap and the Vikes are not good. Cousins just broke the single season record for comebacks this past Saturday. Huh.
I said Brady is top 5 this season, despite the season he's had. All Time? Yes, top 5. GOAT? THAT is arguable.
Y'all know that Brady doesn't *really* walk on water, right? 😉
No that is the "rings dont matter" argument going down the tubes because it eliminates the lame comebacks by people who don't like certain QBs. The laziest argument ever is "rings dont matter cause Trent Dilfer has one". No, HIS ring doesn't make him a great QB but that doesn't discredit the entire argument. Marino has zero, that doesn't mean rings have no value it just means when push came to shove he didn't win the big game. I know that hurts the people who pretend he is the greatest, but if you can't win the big one (hell maybe get to it more than once it isn't like the Dolphins sucked especially early on) you aren't the greatest. Period end of story. Hell I love Jim Kelly but he does not belong in the convo either. Warren Moon had some of the most impressive stats for his time...no one even jokes he should be named.
Now, does the SB stat get abused to prove stupid points...sure! I remember when Ely won his second SB and people pretended that meant he was better than Peyton...RIDICULOUS! (though it was mighty impressive beating Brady twice including the undefeated year) The rest of his stats prove he is an OK QB who played well in big games. (ironically for a long time Peyton was the exact opposite a great QB who played OK in big games) Jeff Hostetler isn't as good as Phil Simms because they both won a SB with the Giants...career history proves that.
The mark of the best QBs are "who would you want leading your team in the biggest game of the season?". Part of what plays into that is their experience in big games (rings) and their ability to win when the odds are against them. (comebacks) Until Brady most people in and around our age thought Montana was the best...why? BECAUSE OF RINGS AND COMEBACKS! The entire myth of Montana is based on "The Catch" and the massive comebacks or drives in SBs. He will his teams to victories. Brady did as well. Hell until he finally won the only reason anyone thought Elway was in the convo was "The Drive" and situations like that. Until he finally won the SB very few thought of him as the GOAT. (outside of superfans like Marino has) Winning the Big One (it has to be more than once sorry Erin) is part of the calculus.
There is no one stat that proves a QB is the greatest, all factors play in. And yes that includes 4th quarter comebacks and SB wins. They aren't the only stats that matter but they are very important and to deny that is to just try and rig the argument against someone you don't like. Brady is the GOAT. Montana is most likely runner up. You can get lucky and win a SB...you can have everything play out right and have a sweet comeback. (ask Frank Reich) But when your career is filled with big comebacks, huge drives and great play on the biggest stages that is just the way it works. And considering Brady made his bones as the replacement for Bledsoe in a SB they had no business in against the reigning champs as huge underdogs and he lead them on the drive at the end to win it...yeah tell me again how comebacks and SBs (let alone comebacks IN SBs of which he has a few) don't matter.
Dilfer has a ring. So does Joe Flacco. That's just the NFL.
Luc Longley has more rings than Charles Barkley.
Ray Bourque has ONE ring. ONE. And his long time team gave him permission to go to a new team to get it.
I could go on, but I am hoping you get the point.
This is lazy and academically dishonest. It is twisting the narrative because the actual context of the argument is flawed and rather stupid. No one argues Robert Horry or Luc Longley are the GOAT because they are role players, secondary players to the stars. They aren't the reason their team won consistently (not to disparage them in any way, they were very important cogs especially guys like Horry) they needed Kobe, Shaq, Pippen and Michael to win. What do those 4 guys have in common? (4 of the Top 50 players of all time) Dilfer wasn't the starting QB on his team half the year...he was a role player whose job was not to turn the ball over. The D was the leader and star...how many of them are in the HOF and considered amongst the greatest at their position?
The Ray Bourque argument is beyond dumb. No one thinks Ray Bourque is the greatest hockey player ever, and winning a Cup didn't elevate him beyond the level he was (he was going to the HOF whether he won or not) nor was it expected to it was just a "go out on high note" situation...I doubt he would have even ranked in the top 30 all time before or after. You know who would (besides obvious ones like Gordie Howe or Wayne Gretzky) a lot of players that were on the Canadiens...gee I wonder why.
See this is why these arguments are stupid. You pretend like it makes sense to compare Trent Dilfer to say Bret Favre because both have 1 ring and both played in the same era. (hell same division for a while) You pretend that because those data points line up that it proves your point because Dilfer was an average QB most of his career yet won 1 while Favre is HOF and also only won 1. This is middle school level because all you need to do is look at any other stat besides "they have 1!" to know the difference. Context is king and people who make the argument you do always leave out the context because it destroys your argument if you have an IQ high enough to tie your shoes. Winning a ring doesn't make a mediocre player a hall of famer. Winning a ring is the difference though between "Good" and "Great" and everyone else seems to get that. Multiple rings is the difference between "Great" and "One of the Best All Time" and to pretend it doesn't is just lying to yourself. Ask Steve Young what the opinion of him was when he took over for Montana...then ask how it changed after he beat the Chargers in the SB.
Having a ring (or more than one even) shouldn't be used as a sole criteria.
But, when you're playing a game where the average career is less than three and a half years, and you've racked up so many rings you can't wear them all on one hand, that turns into a significant indicator on it's own.
B1G refs... corrupt, or just incompetent?
Mostly tangential to the conversation, but I looked at the 4th quarter comeback leader list and was surprised by some of the names on the list. Admittedly, I've paid only the lightest attention to the NFL over the past 15 or so years, but some of the more recent names jumped out at me, plus that there are so many active or recently active players on the list. In addition to my general ignorance of recent players, is this probably mostly an effect of better longevity these days?
Dilfer has a ring. So does Joe Flacco. That's just the NFL.
Luc Longley has more rings than Charles Barkley.
Ray Bourque has ONE ring. ONE. And his long time team gave him permission to go to a new team to get it.
I could go on, but I am hoping you get the point.This is lazy and academically dishonest. It is twisting the narrative because the actual context of the argument is flawed and rather stupid. No one argues Robert Horry or Luc Longley are the GOAT because they are role players, secondary players to the stars. They aren't the reason their team won consistently (not to disparage them in any way, they were very important cogs especially guys like Horry) they needed Kobe, Shaq, Pippen and Michael to win. What do those 4 guys have in common? (4 of the Top 50 players of all time) Dilfer wasn't the starting QB on his team half the year...he was a role player whose job was not to turn the ball over. The D was the leader and star...how many of them are in the HOF and considered amongst the greatest at their position?
The Ray Bourque argument is beyond dumb. No one thinks Ray Bourque is the greatest hockey player ever, and winning a Cup didn't elevate him beyond the level he was (he was going to the HOF whether he won or not) nor was it expected to it was just a "go out on high note" situation...I doubt he would have even ranked in the top 30 all time before or after. You know who would (besides obvious ones like Gordie Howe or Wayne Gretzky) a lot of players that were on the Canadiens...gee I wonder why.
See this is why these arguments are stupid. You pretend like it makes sense to compare Trent Dilfer to say Bret Favre because both have 1 ring and both played in the same era. (hell same division for a while) You pretend that because those data points line up that it proves your point because Dilfer was an average QB most of his career yet won 1 while Favre is HOF and also only won 1. This is middle school level because all you need to do is look at any other stat besides "they have 1!" to know the difference. Context is king and people who make the argument you do always leave out the context because it destroys your argument if you have an IQ high enough to tie your shoes. Winning a ring doesn't make a mediocre player a hall of famer. Winning a ring is the difference though between "Good" and "Great" and everyone else seems to get that. Multiple rings is the difference between "Great" and "One of the Best All Time" and to pretend it doesn't is just lying to yourself. Ask Steve Young what the opinion of him was when he took over for Montana...then ask how it changed after he beat the Chargers in the SB.
And the bolded parts of your post help me prove my point. A ring shouldn't really matter in the GOAT/great/etc arguments. No one has said Dilfer was better than (insert HOFer). Others have touted players BECAUSE they won a ring/more rings.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Having a ring (or more than one even) shouldn't be used as a sole criteria.
But, when you're playing a game where the average career is less than three and a half years, and you've racked up so many rings you can't wear them all on one hand, that turns into a significant indicator on it's own.
The union of Bill B and Tom is something unlikely to happen again in quite a while. The exact correct coach for the exact QB that Tom is (and vice versa). You want a dynasty? That combo is it.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
There aren’t really any comparables to Brady in terms of being in as favorable of a situation. Their division literally gifted them free wins and home field advantage in the playoffs every year as long as they beat Peyton’s Colts once a year, a team that was generally more flawed in terms of its roster construction and coaching. That alone will get you to the superbowl more than any other QB. This isn’t even getting into winning super bowls because of your defense (either due to your coach cheating or the last second pick on Russell Wilson). Also it’s pretty easy to put together a game winning drive in the Super Bowl when the opposing (Carolina) kicker kicks the ball OOB with a minute left ?.
Brady might still be the best to ever do it, he’s at the very least in a small group of like 5 QBs that can realistically be in that conversation. I just don’t think any of the others had situations that resemble his other than Joe Montana.
And that's why I maintain Brady is arguably not GOAT. He might be GOAT, but it's not the slam dunk that many say it is. Montana and Marino come to mind, for sure.
One COULD look at some pre-1980 QBs, but it's so hard to compare eras of sports, and with the West Coast offense in the 80s...that changed the game immensely. One could even make a small case right now of the rules changes in recent years made to favor the offenses more, but it's too soon to tell on that front.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
You can't have the conversation about GOAT and not include Brady as a legit Top 3 maybe at worst Top 5 candidate. Saying otherwise looks foolish and biased, and that's putting it kindly.
You can't have the conversation about GOAT and not include Brady as a legit Top 3 maybe at worst Top 5 candidate. Saying otherwise looks foolish and biased, and that's putting it kindly.
What do you think I've been saying this whole time?
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.