lmfao, flipping Foligno & Johansson. And sticking Yurov on the 4th line. Are they really going to Rossi all these young forwards? Just send them down to Iowa then and let them play every night and play special teams.
Article in the Athletic about Hynes discussing how scary it is to get young players in your lineup. Dear lord.
Kaprizov-Rossi-Boldy
Johansson-Eriksson Ek-Tarasenko
Trenin-Hartman-Foligno
Ohgren-Yurov-Hinostroza
Brodin-Faber
Buium-Spurgeon
Middleton-Bogosian Wallstedt
What exactly do you mean by Rossi the forwards? Rossi started in the NHL a couple years ago, wasn't ready so he got sent down. Made the team the next year and has been a lineup staple since. He got demoted in the playoffs yes, but Ryan Hartman was better than him in that series. The one move they didn't make that never made sense to me was refusing to put Rossi in Freddy's spot. Freddy accomplished nothing that series to warrant being above Rossi while Rossi managed to produce on the 4th line.
I think there's a good possibility AHL time happening to Ohgren (again) and Yurov. Neither one seized the open 2nd line role in the pre-season. If that line continues to struggle, it would probably force the front office to trade for someone who can play in the middle 6 until Zuccy is back. In the meantime keep getting their feet wet and see if they progress.
If you listen to Russo/LaPanta's podcast, I've always agreed more with LaPanta that you have to earn the job. Vets have been stapled there because nobody has been better than them, and that's the ultimate problem. Russo has always veered the more just put Ohgren there because JoJo can't put up more than 35 points in that role anyway.
Something positive I've seen in the first 2 games this year is that Trenin is noticeably a step quicker. Will be nice if he's not last year's version of himself just being a regular season sled.
What exactly do you mean by Rossi the forwards? Rossi started in the NHL a couple years ago, wasn't ready so he got sent down. Made the team the next year and has been a lineup staple since. He got demoted in the playoffs yes, but Ryan Hartman was better than him in that series. The one move they didn't make that never made sense to me was refusing to put Rossi in Freddy's spot. Freddy accomplished nothing that series to warrant being above Rossi while Rossi managed to produce on the 4th line.
I think there's a good possibility AHL time happening to Ohgren (again) and Yurov. Neither one seized the open 2nd line role in the pre-season. If that line continues to struggle, it would probably force the front office to trade for someone who can play in the middle 6 until Zuccy is back. In the meantime keep getting their feet wet and see if they progress.
If you listen to Russo/LaPanta's podcast, I've always agreed more with LaPanta that you have to earn the job. Vets have been stapled there because nobody has been better than them, and that's the ultimate problem. Russo has always veered the more just put Ohgren there because JoJo can't put up more than 35 points in that role anyway.
Something positive I've seen in the first 2 games this year is that Trenin is noticeably a step quicker. Will be nice if he's not last year's version of himself just being a regular season sled.
Rossi played mostly 4th line in 2022-2023 in his 19 games with the Wild.
What exactly do you mean by Rossi the forwards? Rossi started in the NHL a couple years ago, wasn't ready so he got sent down. Made the team the next year and has been a lineup staple since. He got demoted in the playoffs yes, but Ryan Hartman was better than him in that series. The one move they didn't make that never made sense to me was refusing to put Rossi in Freddy's spot. Freddy accomplished nothing that series to warrant being above Rossi while Rossi managed to produce on the 4th line.
Rossi played mostly 4th line in 2022-2023 in his 19 games with the Wild.
He seems to be in agreement if you read the last sentence.
What exactly do you mean by Rossi the forwards? Rossi started in the NHL a couple years ago, wasn't ready so he got sent down. Made the team the next year and has been a lineup staple since. He got demoted in the playoffs yes, but Ryan Hartman was better than him in that series. The one move they didn't make that never made sense to me was refusing to put Rossi in Freddy's spot. Freddy accomplished nothing that series to warrant being above Rossi while Rossi managed to produce on the 4th line.
Rossi played mostly 4th line in 2022-2023 in his 19 games with the Wild.
He seems to be in agreement if you read the last sentence.
Should have pointed out what in his post I was referring to/answering. "What exactly do you mean by Rossi the forwards."
Putting a young, talented forward on the 4th line.
It rarely does much and isn't good for the development of the player. Unless they are already identified as a grunt.
What exactly do you mean by Rossi the forwards? Rossi started in the NHL a couple years ago, wasn't ready so he got sent down. Made the team the next year and has been a lineup staple since. He got demoted in the playoffs yes, but Ryan Hartman was better than him in that series. The one move they didn't make that never made sense to me was refusing to put Rossi in Freddy's spot. Freddy accomplished nothing that series to warrant being above Rossi while Rossi managed to produce on the 4th line.
Rossi played mostly 4th line in 2022-2023 in his 19 games with the Wild.
He seems to be in agreement if you read the last sentence.
Should have pointed out what in his post I was referring to/answering. "What exactly do you mean by Rossi the forwards."
Putting a young, talented forward on the 4th line.
It rarely does much and isn't good for the development of the player. Unless they are already identified as a grunt.
I get it and can appreciate that. We'd probably be in agreement that Iowa would be a fine spot for at least a while for those guys then. I just don't think in the present moment there's anybody better to stick there. Getting Sturm and Zuccy back will help that, as well as any possible trade.
Being on the 4th line isn't a death sentence either though is the only other point I'd make. Mikko Koivu spent his entire rookie year on the 4th line. And in this case, both Yurov and Ohgren are supposed to be gifted offensively, so they should be able to create together if that's the case and they're ready. Not like they're stuck with the Derek Boogaard's of yesteryear.
Why take a chance with talented youngsters when you have guys like Foligno and Johansson who you know can't do it?
lol…but I also agree 💯 % We know what Foligno & JoJo can do & it’s not consistently produce points on the 2nd line. So why not roll the dice with a young guy?Why take a chance with talented youngsters when you have guys like Foligno and Johansson who you know can't do it?
A 5 on 5 goal might be necessary eventually.
Wallstedt stands tall in the SO & in OT to prevent Wild from kicking a win to the curb.
Wild on a legitimate network Tuesday night!
2nd line has been completely worthless this year. Gonna have to drop Boldy down to line 2 with Ek and Ohgren, put Yurov with Rossi and Kap. Leave line 3. And then I guess put the remaining guys on line 4 and just shelter their minutes.
I would probably try Tarasenko with Kaprizov. Mix up Tarasenko, Ohgren, and Yurov with Boldy and Kaprizov and hope something works.2nd line has been completely worthless this year. Gonna have to drop Boldy down to line 2 with Ek and Ohgren, put Yurov with Rossi and Kap. Leave line 3. And then I guess put the remaining guys on line 4 and just shelter their minutes.
15 goals allowed in their last 3 games? Woof!
3 ENG in there but there is definitely some work to do on defense.15 goals allowed in their last 3 games? Woof!
They played pretty good last night and probably deserved a better fate. There were two empty netters and a deflection off the heel of Bogosian's skate. Penalties, and the ensuing penalty kills, hurt Minnesota last night in the first period, but otherwise they had a decent game.
I think the biggest challenge for this year will be putting the puck in the net. They have some scorers but don't have scoring depth. Same old, same old.
Faber gives ERIK EK a perfect 2-1 pass in OT, he has the entire gaping net to shot at & he clanks it off the near post. Wild subsequently lose. Can’t make this 💩 up! 🙁
Good thing the Wild are continuing the streak of MN men's sports teams embarrassing themselves this weekend.
Every. Single. One. Of. Them.
Good thing the Wild are continuing the streak of MN men's sports teams embarrassing themselves this weekend.
Every. Single. One. Of. Them.
The fat lady hasn’t sung yet!
Maybe they took my post personally. Haha.
The first 14 minutes they had 2 shots and looked disinterested against one of the worst teams in the league.
That was one of the uglier periods of NHL hockey I've seen.
Is it already late March and this is 2 eliminated teams playing out the string?
The penalty kill is just so bad.
The "Vets" have been terrible to start the season. Seems like Hynes' only answer is to play the vets more.
Well 💩
The “icing” on the cake for a Minnesota sports weekend. 🤦♀️
That was hilarious
Every MN team in season lost in the last 4 days, except MN Gophers women's hockey...who beat tUMD, so MN still lost. 😉
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
It's too bad that they don't have a highly skilled offensive defensman who could make a difference in 3x3 hockey.
Its absolutely incredible that Hynes is too cautious to put #8 out in 3x3 OT! lolIt's too bad that they don't have a highly skilled offensive defensman who could make a difference in 3x3 hockey.
Its absolutely incredible that Hynes is too cautious to put #8 out in 3x3 OT! lolIt's too bad that they don't have a highly skilled offensive defensman who could make a difference in 3x3 hockey.
Faber had 3 chances in OT as well. Would’ve been nice to see Zeev getting some of those looks
So it is no secret, I don't like Guerin, and I don't like Hynes either. Everyone had fun with the #FireGuerin after the opening night 5-0 win. But I honestly want to know what gives people excitement about this team? This is the most pessimistic/apathetic towards the team I have been in several seasons.
Guerin "ripped off the bandaid" and did the buyouts. Great. Super. Instead of letting the team deal with that for a few seasons, and stock up on picks and/or prospects, they tried to remain competitive, and won Zero playoff series. And most of the players who have won no playoff series, he has opted to resign to long term contracts. Several guys like Brodin and Spurgeon in particular, their best days of hockey are behind them, and we still have them signed for 2 or 3 more seasons. Foligno, Hartman, Trenin, all for 3 more years. Foligno and Trenin both were overpayments in terms of dollar value and term. Our depth is AHL level players. Any of the youth gets brought up for maybe 2 games to play with those AHL level players, and then they are sent back down for not producing.
Guerin banked on July 1st having a plethora of high end free agents to sign, and going on a spending spree. Instead we have 2 high end forwards (Kaprizov and Boldy) who have little to no help. And a bunch of older players locked into longer term deals, many of which have been on the team for awhile and have no playoff success to show for it. The Tarasenko signing... why? You're hoping he can turn back time 6-7 years?
If the Wild were built to "win now", I understand not playing the younger guys. But they aren't. I'd rather watch Spacek, Lambos, and Bankier get a chance to play, then see Bogosian, Foligno, and Johansson out there getting significant ice time.
Yurov has been talked about. We are supposed to see what he has this year. Instead he is out there with AHL players Jones and Pitlick getting 4 minutes of ice time. Try him on the 2nd or 3rd line when things aren't working? No, that doesn't make any sense.
When Zuccarello and Sturm come back from injury? I am sure he will just get pushed further down and probably be a scratch.
What am I missing? What gets people excited about this team?
As I left GCA last night, I heard people saying "The Wild deserved better", I'd argue they should feel lucky to salvage a point. "I can't believe we dominated them, and lost in OT.", that's not what I saw (other than the 3 minutes and change of OT itself) etc. Maybe I am letting my negative attitude towards the GM, Coach, and Roster construction cloud my judgement, or I am watching a completely different game.
I am admittedly not a Billy G fan either, but I agree. He should be on the hot seat.
I think some of your analysis is fair. I do think that the bad start is amplifying issues to be greater than they really are.
Most of this roster was together last year, and they were in 1st place in the NHL when Kaprizov went down with the injury. Then we lost Ek and others for periods of time and the struggle started. They were also 1 dumb offsides, from a player who definitely shouldn't have been playing, away from taking a 3-2 lead against Vegas in the series and I think they win it if that happens. But they didn't and still haven't won anything so can't annoint shoulda/woulda/couldas.
I think the main problem the team has had is prospects not developing. They were ranked to have the best pipeline like 2 years ago or something, and hardly any of them have panned out. I love having guys like Foligno on the team, but he has to be in a certain role. Having to play him on line 2 early in the year is a major problem. Zuccy will come back and cover that issue again, but the lack of depth is concerning to me.
Yurov is on the 4th line right now because we don't have another center. So the lineup is necessitating he be there. When Sturm comes back, I think we do see him at 2nd line wing, or 3rd line. He's shown some positive growth.
Ohgren on the other hand was basically gifted a golden opportunity to take that 2nd line job, and pissed it away. The defense prospects are all floundering in the AHL. Why would we give them time in the NHL and think they'll magically improve?
I think fans and organizations put too much value on the unknown. Someone "could" be a good player, vs who actually is. When the youth haven't stepped up to take guys like Johansson out of the role we're sick of him playing, that's the bigger problem to me. So I do think Guerin has to make some moves before long here. I agree that some of these guys shouldn't get the playing time they are, but I don't view the solution being in house at the moment.
The Wild have very few people (players and front office) who are anywhere near qualified to be in the role that they are being paid to be in.
the prospects aren't developing because they are being set up to fail. Imagine adding the best offensive defenseman your team has ever had and then playing him with your 4th line and having him watch Jared fucking Spurgeon run the PP and play the 3x3 overtime. Hynes deserves to be fired for that alone.
I think some of your analysis is fair. I do think that the bad start is amplifying issues to be greater than they really are.
Most of this roster was together last year, and they were in 1st place in the NHL when Kaprizov went down with the injury. Then we lost Ek and others for periods of time and the struggle started. They were also 1 dumb offsides, from a player who definitely shouldn't have been playing, away from taking a 3-2 lead against Vegas in the series and I think they win it if that happens. But they didn't and still haven't won anything so can't annoint shoulda/woulda/couldas.
I think the main problem the team has had is prospects not developing. They were ranked to have the best pipeline like 2 years ago or something, and hardly any of them have panned out. I love having guys like Foligno on the team, but he has to be in a certain role. Having to play him on line 2 early in the year is a major problem. Zuccy will come back and cover that issue again, but the lack of depth is concerning to me.
Yurov is on the 4th line right now because we don't have another center. So the lineup is necessitating he be there. When Sturm comes back, I think we do see him at 2nd line wing, or 3rd line. He's shown some positive growth.
Ohgren on the other hand was basically gifted a golden opportunity to take that 2nd line job, and pissed it away. The defense prospects are all floundering in the AHL. Why would we give them time in the NHL and think they'll magically improve?
I think fans and organizations put too much value on the unknown. Someone "could" be a good player, vs who actually is. When the youth haven't stepped up to take guys like Johansson out of the role we're sick of him playing, that's the bigger problem to me. So I do think Guerin has to make some moves before long here. I agree that some of these guys shouldn't get the playing time they are, but I don't view the solution being in house at the moment.
They traded a boatload of assets for offensive defenseman Jiricek. He also gets the majority of his time with players who don't even know what offense is, with the added bonus of zero PP time.
Ohgren didn't piss anything away. He was fine in the preseason. Hynes just needed a reason to play his guys. Guys who have proven over many seasons that they can't do it.
Yurov got to play 1 game with any sort of talent. He scored the game winner that night. Right back to the 4th line the following night.
I get your point, I just disagree with it.
Agree 💯 %. Hynes is so worried about losing his job he’s afraid to play the young players & live with their ups & downs. Zeev should have been paired with Faber since the Blues opener, let old Brodin & Spurgeon play together. And for what Billy gave up the Jiricek, he at least needs to be in the lineup every night, put him with Tarps off Middleton. Yurov shouldn’t be C the 4th line, that’s obvious. He needs to play higher in the lineup. And I simply don’t see diminutive Spurgeon providing anything leadership as C on or off the ice. They send rookies or Hartman to talk to Gorg after losses. They’re not playing good hockey & the HC keeps doubling down on ineffective veterans & giving the young guys less opportunities. It’s maddening!the prospects aren't developing because they are being set up to fail. Imagine adding the best offensive defenseman your team has ever had and then playing him with your 4th line and having him watch Jared fucking Spurgeon run the PP and play the 3x3 overtime. Hynes deserves to be fired for that alone.
I think some of your analysis is fair. I do think that the bad start is amplifying issues to be greater than they really are.
Most of this roster was together last year, and they were in 1st place in the NHL when Kaprizov went down with the injury. Then we lost Ek and others for periods of time and the struggle started. They were also 1 dumb offsides, from a player who definitely shouldn't have been playing, away from taking a 3-2 lead against Vegas in the series and I think they win it if that happens. But they didn't and still haven't won anything so can't annoint shoulda/woulda/couldas.
I think the main problem the team has had is prospects not developing. They were ranked to have the best pipeline like 2 years ago or something, and hardly any of them have panned out. I love having guys like Foligno on the team, but he has to be in a certain role. Having to play him on line 2 early in the year is a major problem. Zuccy will come back and cover that issue again, but the lack of depth is concerning to me.
Yurov is on the 4th line right now because we don't have another center. So the lineup is necessitating he be there. When Sturm comes back, I think we do see him at 2nd line wing, or 3rd line. He's shown some positive growth.
Ohgren on the other hand was basically gifted a golden opportunity to take that 2nd line job, and pissed it away. The defense prospects are all floundering in the AHL. Why would we give them time in the NHL and think they'll magically improve?
I think fans and organizations put too much value on the unknown. Someone "could" be a good player, vs who actually is. When the youth haven't stepped up to take guys like Johansson out of the role we're sick of him playing, that's the bigger problem to me. So I do think Guerin has to make some moves before long here. I agree that some of these guys shouldn't get the playing time they are, but I don't view the solution being in house at the moment.
They traded a boatload of assets for offensive defenseman Jiricek. He also gets the majority of his time with players who don't even know what offense is, with the added bonus of zero PP time.
Ohgren didn't piss anything away. He was fine in the preseason. Hynes just needed a reason to play his guys. Guys who have proven over many seasons that they can't do it.
Yurov got to play 1 game with any sort of talent. He scored the game winner that night. Right back to the 4th line the following night.
Agree 💯 %. Hynes is so worried about losing his job he’s afraid to play the young players & live with their ups & downs. Zeev should have been paired with Faber since the Blues opener, let old Brodin & Spurgeon play together. And for what Billy gave up the Jiricek, he at least needs to be in the lineup every night, put him with Tarps off Middleton. Yurov shouldn’t be C the 4th line, that’s obvious. He needs to play higher in the lineup. And I simply don’t see diminutive Spurgeon providing anything leadership as C on or off the ice. They send rookies or Hartman to talk to Gorg after losses. They’re not playing good hockey & the HC keeps doubling down on ineffective veterans & giving the young guys less opportunities. It’s maddening!the prospects aren't developing because they are being set up to fail. Imagine adding the best offensive defenseman your team has ever had and then playing him with your 4th line and having him watch Jared fucking Spurgeon run the PP and play the 3x3 overtime. Hynes deserves to be fired for that alone.
I think some of your analysis is fair. I do think that the bad start is amplifying issues to be greater than they really are.
Most of this roster was together last year, and they were in 1st place in the NHL when Kaprizov went down with the injury. Then we lost Ek and others for periods of time and the struggle started. They were also 1 dumb offsides, from a player who definitely shouldn't have been playing, away from taking a 3-2 lead against Vegas in the series and I think they win it if that happens. But they didn't and still haven't won anything so can't annoint shoulda/woulda/couldas.
I think the main problem the team has had is prospects not developing. They were ranked to have the best pipeline like 2 years ago or something, and hardly any of them have panned out. I love having guys like Foligno on the team, but he has to be in a certain role. Having to play him on line 2 early in the year is a major problem. Zuccy will come back and cover that issue again, but the lack of depth is concerning to me.
Yurov is on the 4th line right now because we don't have another center. So the lineup is necessitating he be there. When Sturm comes back, I think we do see him at 2nd line wing, or 3rd line. He's shown some positive growth.
Ohgren on the other hand was basically gifted a golden opportunity to take that 2nd line job, and pissed it away. The defense prospects are all floundering in the AHL. Why would we give them time in the NHL and think they'll magically improve?
I think fans and organizations put too much value on the unknown. Someone "could" be a good player, vs who actually is. When the youth haven't stepped up to take guys like Johansson out of the role we're sick of him playing, that's the bigger problem to me. So I do think Guerin has to make some moves before long here. I agree that some of these guys shouldn't get the playing time they are, but I don't view the solution being in house at the moment.
They traded a boatload of assets for offensive defenseman Jiricek. He also gets the majority of his time with players who don't even know what offense is, with the added bonus of zero PP time.
Ohgren didn't piss anything away. He was fine in the preseason. Hynes just needed a reason to play his guys. Guys who have proven over many seasons that they can't do it.
Yurov got to play 1 game with any sort of talent. He scored the game winner that night. Right back to the 4th line the following night.
Speaking of Captains, Billy just met with them. Ironically, having Spurgeon as your Captain is quite embarrassing. And Foligno probably doesn't belong in the NHL at this point, certainly not as a regular.
Boldy is the Captain of this team and to be honest there isn't a close second.
Re above
to me its because they're a team of 2 minds. One that convinced themselves that because they had a good record while playing defensive hockey in the regular season where they blocked shots and played the body that they have a team that can win in postseason despite their really obvious shortcomings.
Instead now they're 30th in GA/G and 27th in GF/G with a bunch of old guys and a crappy pipeline because we make marginal moves every single year (prior due to the buyouts and this year because high impact FAs don't just all hit the market like they do in NHL25). Hynes clearly has the impression we're going to go all out to try win so he's going to play who's "best" in his mind right now as he probably doesn't get next season. That may change if they tell him he's overseeing a rebuild, but they haven't done that in any way which is overselling what this roster actually has on it.
This was my biggest issue with Billy is that it's pretty damn obvious we're lacking in mnay ways and only got a year older, but we've got multiple bloated contracts on old guys who are bottom 6/healthy scratch type guys at this point in their careers but they're locked in for 2-3 years. I have no problem with the MoJo deal at 1 year and minimum, same with Sturm and his 2 years at a reasonable price. But a guy like Foligno for 4 at his age made no sense. Then you're still paying for the Brodin and Spurgeon deals which Spurgeon is going to expire right at the time you're likely going to have to pay Zeev. At some point he needs to make up his mind that you're going to see what you have in development. Unfortunately all the guys you'd want to move have NMCs so who knows if you'll actaully be able to move any of them. doesn't really get much better next year either with KKs cap hit jumping 8mil either
I don't think they have many guys that they need to move. They just need a bunch of actually skilled players that would put the Wild players in their current roles. Spurgeon and Brodin are the only guys that they need to get off the roster ASAP, but even that doesn't make much sense until you have replacements. Probably don't have room for both Ek and Rossi on a good team, but the Wild are miles away from being able to trade either.Re above
to me its because they're a team of 2 minds. One that convinced themselves that because they had a good record while playing defensive hockey in the regular season where they blocked shots and played the body that they have a team that can win in postseason despite their really obvious shortcomings.
Instead now they're 30th in GA/G and 27th in GF/G with a bunch of old guys and a crappy pipeline because we make marginal moves every single year (prior due to the buyouts and this year because high impact FAs don't just all hit the market like they do in NHL25). Hynes clearly has the impression we're going to go all out to try win so he's going to play who's "best" in his mind right now as he probably doesn't get next season. That may change if they tell him he's overseeing a rebuild, but they haven't done that in any way which is overselling what this roster actually has on it.
This was my biggest issue with Billy is that it's pretty damn obvious we're lacking in mnay ways and only got a year older, but we've got multiple bloated contracts on old guys who are bottom 6/healthy scratch type guys at this point in their careers but they're locked in for 2-3 years. I have no problem with the MoJo deal at 1 year and minimum, same with Sturm and his 2 years at a reasonable price. But a guy like Foligno for 4 at his age made no sense. Then you're still paying for the Brodin and Spurgeon deals which Spurgeon is going to expire right at the time you're likely going to have to pay Zeev. At some point he needs to make up his mind that you're going to see what you have in development. Unfortunately all the guys you'd want to move have NMCs so who knows if you'll actaully be able to move any of them. doesn't really get much better next year either with KKs cap hit jumping 8mil either
I think some of your analysis is fair. I do think that the bad start is amplifying issues to be greater than they really are.
Most of this roster was together last year, and they were in 1st place in the NHL when Kaprizov went down with the injury. Then we lost Ek and others for periods of time and the struggle started. They were also 1 dumb offsides, from a player who definitely shouldn't have been playing, away from taking a 3-2 lead against Vegas in the series and I think they win it if that happens. But they didn't and still haven't won anything so can't annoint shoulda/woulda/couldas.
I think the main problem the team has had is prospects not developing. They were ranked to have the best pipeline like 2 years ago or something, and hardly any of them have panned out. I love having guys like Foligno on the team, but he has to be in a certain role. Having to play him on line 2 early in the year is a major problem. Zuccy will come back and cover that issue again, but the lack of depth is concerning to me.
Yurov is on the 4th line right now because we don't have another center. So the lineup is necessitating he be there. When Sturm comes back, I think we do see him at 2nd line wing, or 3rd line. He's shown some positive growth.
Ohgren on the other hand was basically gifted a golden opportunity to take that 2nd line job, and pissed it away. The defense prospects are all floundering in the AHL. Why would we give them time in the NHL and think they'll magically improve?
I think fans and organizations put too much value on the unknown. Someone "could" be a good player, vs who actually is. When the youth haven't stepped up to take guys like Johansson out of the role we're sick of him playing, that's the bigger problem to me. So I do think Guerin has to make some moves before long here. I agree that some of these guys shouldn't get the playing time they are, but I don't view the solution being in house at the moment.
I do put more value in the unknown, than the known quantities of players who aren't getting it done. We've seen this team for several years not get it done. The NHL is getting faster every year, and we keep going with aging, slow vets.
I don't have an issue with Foligno on the team. I take issue with him on the 2nd line. I'd rather see someone who "could be" a good player, or a "Maybe top 6/middle 6" player in that spot than someone who we know is a "Bottom 6" player, trending towards 4th line player. Why couldn't Yurov get a chance on the 2nd line with competent NHL players? I don't know what value Foligno provides on the 2nd line over Yurov, especially when he has never been given the chance. Try it, maybe after 5 or 6 games we can see it just isn't working with him there.
I will disagree with you in that the "known" value of Foligno, Trenin, Johansson, etc. is better than the "unknown". I get not putting in a career AHL guy. But when you have 21, 22, 23 year old guys who you've talked up as the future of the franchise (Yurov, Ohgren, Buium, etc.), why aren't these guys getting more ice time and in higher leverage situations? Sure, maybe they need to get sent to the 4th line to be sent a message if something just isn't clicking. But they never even get the chance to see if something clicks. They get stuck with bubble players who cannot produce either, and then we wonder why the prospects don't do anything.
This franchise has, historically, over-valued their "Known" players, rather than give chances to unknowns. How many players have we seen on this team do nothing, and then get brought back a 2nd time? Sturm, Nyquist, Johansson... and that is just recently. Look at the expansion draft. Haula was never given 2nd line TOI (barring injuries), and Tuch never had a chance (unknown). Instead, they give up both of them just so that we don't lose Dumba or Brodin. Tuch turned into a pretty solid 2nd line forward. Haula had his ups and downs, but is still better than pretty much any player the Wild have trotted out on their third line. Dumba had one good year after that, got hurt the following, and then he and Brodin both tailed off. Dumba more noticeable/rapidly so as his offensive production vanished.
Historically, the Wild had struggled to put the puck in the net. Yet they keep giving extensive ice time to players who have proved they cannot score goals. Or to guys who scored goals in the past, and just cannot anymore. Young guys who 'might' be able to score, aren't really given a chance other than on the 4th line with a couple linemates with a pulse.
I don't think they have many guys that they need to move. They just need a bunch of actually skilled players that would put the Wild players in their current roles. Spurgeon and Brodin are the only guys that they need to get off the roster ASAP, but even that doesn't make much sense until you have replacements. Probably don't have room for both Ek and Rossi on a good team, but the Wild are miles away from being able to trade either.Re above
to me its because they're a team of 2 minds. One that convinced themselves that because they had a good record while playing defensive hockey in the regular season where they blocked shots and played the body that they have a team that can win in postseason despite their really obvious shortcomings.
Instead now they're 30th in GA/G and 27th in GF/G with a bunch of old guys and a crappy pipeline because we make marginal moves every single year (prior due to the buyouts and this year because high impact FAs don't just all hit the market like they do in NHL25). Hynes clearly has the impression we're going to go all out to try win so he's going to play who's "best" in his mind right now as he probably doesn't get next season. That may change if they tell him he's overseeing a rebuild, but they haven't done that in any way which is overselling what this roster actually has on it.
This was my biggest issue with Billy is that it's pretty damn obvious we're lacking in mnay ways and only got a year older, but we've got multiple bloated contracts on old guys who are bottom 6/healthy scratch type guys at this point in their careers but they're locked in for 2-3 years. I have no problem with the MoJo deal at 1 year and minimum, same with Sturm and his 2 years at a reasonable price. But a guy like Foligno for 4 at his age made no sense. Then you're still paying for the Brodin and Spurgeon deals which Spurgeon is going to expire right at the time you're likely going to have to pay Zeev. At some point he needs to make up his mind that you're going to see what you have in development. Unfortunately all the guys you'd want to move have NMCs so who knows if you'll actaully be able to move any of them. doesn't really get much better next year either with KKs cap hit jumping 8mil either
guess my reasoning is more you need the cap room somewhere and their roles are more easily replaced for cheaper cap hits but I agree with your point of the money was better
Yeah that's all fair. You have a different operating objective than Craig is giving the team is where the disconnect is IMO. They are told they have to win now, and having young guys make a lot of mistakes doesn't help that. So I think you're gonna have a bad time continuing to watch lol.
The only reason I think Yurov isn't on line 2 right now is because they need a center for the 4th line. So we could call up a Ben Jones or something to play there in order to move Yurov up, but otherwise I think Yurov stays where he is until Sturm is back. But then who do you scratch in order to play a sled like Jones? I'd rather have all of Trenin, Foligno, JoJo etc in the lineup over Jones. You could call Ohgren up to play there, but he couldn't produce anything in the pre-season with a job up for grabs so I have little faith in him at this point. He's only 21 though and it's his 2nd season in North America so he may still get there, but he's gotta get more assertive.
Once Sturm is back, I agree with moving Yurov up. Yurov is defensively sound and needs to develop his offensive game. So I don't think you're giving up goals with him on the 2nd in general, and like you point out he can develop that offensive game better there.
Buium and Jiricek are getting appropriate ice time right now though. There's a lot of defensive deficiencies there that they both need to work on. I don't have an issue with Spurgeon and Brodin like some do. They're getting towards the end of their deals and I they won't be here long term, but the Wild need them to hold the fort for a bit here while Buium improves.
Yeah that's all fair. You have a different operating objective than Craig is giving the team is where the disconnect is IMO. They are told they have to win now, and having young guys make a lot of mistakes doesn't help that. So I think you're gonna have a bad time continuing to watch lol.
The only reason I think Yurov isn't on line 2 right now is because they need a center for the 4th line. So we could call up a Ben Jones or something to play there in order to move Yurov up, but otherwise I think Yurov stays where he is until Sturm is back. But then who do you scratch in order to play a sled like Jones? I'd rather have all of Trenin, Foligno, JoJo etc in the lineup over Jones. You could call Ohgren up to play there, but he couldn't produce anything in the pre-season with a job up for grabs so I have little faith in him at this point. He's only 21 though and it's his 2nd season in North America so he may still get there, but he's gotta get more assertive.
Once Sturm is back, I agree with moving Yurov up. Yurov is defensively sound and needs to develop his offensive game. So I don't think you're giving up goals with him on the 2nd in general, and like you point out he can develop that offensive game better there.
Buium and Jiricek are getting appropriate ice time right now though. There's a lot of defensive deficiencies there that they both need to work on. I don't have an issue with Spurgeon and Brodin like some do. They're getting towards the end of their deals and I they won't be here long term, but the Wild need them to hold the fort for a bit here while Buium improves.
I mean I guess they are? Brodin still has 2 more years and Spurgeon another 1. They're just bad pairings with what they've assembled for other Dmen on this roster and Buium and Faber are both more finesse defensemen (as is Jiricek). You can't have 2/3 of your D core (minimum) being soft.
I get what you're saying in that you'd ideally let them be able to ramp Buium into the lineup, but Spurgeon has 1 goal and is minus 11 with some of the worst analytics of his career. I don't think the dropoff is quite as steep as you think it is at this point in Spurgeons career.
Spurgeon has also been paired with Buium a lot who thinks he's on a perpetual PP, so some context needed there. Buium also likely another finesse defenseman long term, so yeah I do agree that they need some better grit there.
The no trade protections are dropping off their deals too, so it's not like we couldn't deal them somewhere if there's a market. But if you get rid of a Spurgeon or Brodin, you better get someone back because there's nobody else to take the spot right now.
let's add some of that context. 5 on 5 stats from naturalstattrick-Spurgeon has also been paired with Buium a lot who thinks he's on a perpetual PP, so some context needed there. Buium also likely another finesse defenseman long term, so yeah I do agree that they need some better grit there.
The no trade protections are dropping off their deals too, so it's not like we couldn't deal them somewhere if there's a market. But if you get rid of a Spurgeon or Brodin, you better get someone back because there's nobody else to take the spot right now.
Buium with Spurgeon TOI 85:34 1 goal for 6 goals against
Buium without Spurgeon TOI 67:25 2 goals for 2 goals against
Spurgeon without Buium TOI 80:31 0 goals for 5 goals against
Sure makes sense that Buium would be moving down the lineup and Spurgeon moving up. We can make it even worse when we realize that when he isn't with Buium, Spurgeon has spent most of his time with either Middleton or Brodin while Buium has been with Bogosian and Jiricek. We can also realize that Spurgeon is still being given the high leverage offensive faceoffs despite his inability to provide offence.
Wanna see the PP numbers?
Buium TOI 42:15 10 goals for 0 goals against
Spurgeon TOI 23:28 2 goals for 0 goals against.
No wonder they moved Spurgeon to the top unit. Simply put, Buium being in the lineup but not on the top PP should get every coach on that bench fired immediately. You can argue that Buium's defense needs more work before he can be heavily relied upon during a game. You can probably make a weak argument that he shouldn't even be in the lineup because of that, but there is zero argument for having Buium in the lineup but not on the PP.
In case you want to argue luck or sample size, here's Spurgeon/Middleton. Pretty tough to argue that Middleton is the kind of guy who always looks for offense at the cost of defense.
Middleton with Spurgeon TOI 61:13 0 goals for 5 goals against
Middleton without Spurgeon TOI 94:09 3 goals for 2 goals against
Spurgeon without Middleton TOI 104:52 1 goal for 6 goals against
I see FanDuel is spazzing out again so I can’t watch. What a horseshit outfit. Watch they’ll win tonight, too.
Good to know. Didn’t realize he’s been split from Spurgeon that much. Definitely proves the vets are struggling.
I agree Buium should be on PP1 for the record. His 5 on 5 likely just needs to be sheltered/limited due to defense. He is the future though there’s no disputing that.
You probably disagree with me, but I still feel more comfortable with Spurgeon in bigger 5 on 5 minutes than Buium. I think he’ll regress closer to where he’s historically been than this bad start.
That being said, if there’s a market, I’m also ok moving on from Spurge.
I see FanDuel is spazzing out again so I can’t watch. What a horseshit outfit. Watch they’ll win tonight, too.
I’ve spent 45 minutes resetting passwords trying to make it work and just came here to see if anyone else was finding FanDuel to be a pile of hot steaming garbage tonight. Glad it’s not me. 😂