You take any invite for a bowl game. Only Notre Dame declines bowl games.
Keep your stick on the ice...
There’s no logical reason I can think of to decline a bowl game.
We did decline a bowl bid in 2020, but that was such a cluster of a season that nobody disagreed.
Didn’t realize that, kind of a unique situation with the pandemic and I don’t think vaccines were available at that point.
https://twitter.com/GopherHole/status/1729156573560439256?s=20
Lead the FCS division in passing yards this season. Had 3449 passing yards with 29 TDs and 5 INTs. Also is apparently extremely smart as the article I saw said he posted a 3.9 GPA as a biomedical science and kinesiology major.
Fleck can't coach Football at this level.
He is a hypeman and that is about it. This program is not good at all. The only illusion they have of being respectable is when the schedule is as easy as it can possibly get and they even muff that up.
Fleck can't coach Football at this level.
He is a hypeman and that is about it. This program is not good at all. The only illusion they have of being respectable is when the schedule is as easy as it can possibly get and they even muff that up.
By that order of magnitude neither could Kill, and neither could Brewster.
So who are you going to bring him in that is an immediate upgrade? Because if it isn't an upgrade, you're bound to have a couple years just like this last one, and then some down recruiting years as well.
What coach is going to be able to come in here and turn this program from an "also-ran" into a title contender??? I just don't see it.
I am just as disappointed, but I would give him at least another year to see if he can dig out of this. As a perennial "also-ran" we are bound to have some down years. This year was a really down year. But nearly everyone should be back, and have an extra year of experience. So that is my question, can he actually coach these guys and bring them up, or recruit some better players to replace them, or is he just a blow hard? I haven't seen anything yet that proves it one way or another. To me, next season will be an important one; do the players develop? Or is the program stagnant? That will be a tell-tale sign for me.
When a program is 11th worst in the B1G for booster donations for a 15 year period - which you know translates to poor NIL support - what do people expect? btw I doubt Kill's health would have allowded him to continue at Minnesota for much longer. The pressure of the B1G is infinitely more difficult than whatever division his new program is in.
My post wasn't about firing him. Just simply put, he isn't a good football coach at this level and this isn't a good program.
Excluding Lou Holtz, who has MN had that's better than Fleck in the last 60 years? He's not a bad coach, he' stubborn and needs to adapt and adjust, but he's not a bad coach. He's a particular type of individuals and we may lose a few recruits because of it, but he doesn't apologize for that. He's also honest that it's not just about football, that it's about life. Which, off the field, I'd say he's done an outstanding job. No noise from the program or issues with the athletes, strong academics, etc.
Jim Wacker - bad coach
Tim Brewster - bad coach (good recruiter)
Jerry Kill, decent coach, not a great recruiter but did good things with average talent.
Glen Mason, average all around and completely alienated all the local MN HS coaches.
I've had season tickets every year (with our stint in NC 2014-2017 aside) since 1995 and this past handful of years have been the best of that nearly 30 years.
Fleck is not a good coach, he is a good program manager. And to add to that he is too stubborn and controlling to hire good coaches and let them run the offense and defense their way.
Edit: the last comment is mostly in reference to the offense, overall I'm impressed with what Rossi has done here.
Exactly, it’s not something that’s going to be fixed with a coaching change. Even if you got a better in-game coach there’s no guarantee they’d recruit as well or there wouldn’t be some kind of trade off. There’s also a reason basketball which even got the likes of Tubby Smith as a coach struggled to recruit at a high level and is basically in the same boat. The problem goes deeper than something one coach can fix by themselves.When a program is 11th worst in the B1G for booster donations for a 15 year period - which you know translates to poor NIL support - what do people expect? btw I doubt Kill's health would have allowded him to continue at Minnesota for much longer. The pressure of the B1G is infinitely more difficult than whatever division his new program is in.
As far as PJ being stubborn, name me a coach who isn’t? Nick Saban is stubborn, pretty much every coach I can think of is stubborn, not just in football but in the NHL as well and applies to even the most successful coaches. It’s practically an inherent trait of doing that job and certainly not unique to him.
When a program is 11th worst in the B1G for booster donations for a 15 year period - which you know translates to poor NIL support - what do people expect? btw I doubt Kill's health would have allowded him to continue at Minnesota for much longer. The pressure of the B1G is infinitely more difficult than whatever division his new program is in.
This is part of what is really turning me off from college athletics overall recently. I paid a TON of money to attend the school and only recently finally paid off the loans. I have to pay a lot of money to park, get tickets to attend a game, etc. I've got to buy BIG+ if I want to watch some of the games (hockey). And now I am expected to donate to keep a competitive roster together? In between calls from the university asking for donations to the general scholarship fund.
You can EFF right off with that. Everyone has their hand out for money right now as the cost of everything is rising, but my pay and my wife's pay isn't. Right now we can barely give a small amount to our church, let alone a college athletics department who rakes in millions from TV and Advertising deals. Bless those that have the means to donate to NIL deals, we do not, and quite frankly aren't that interested in that particular 'charity' even if we did have the means.
If this is what college athletics is going to be... I'll just become a casual fan at best, and not go out of my way to bring my kids and bring them up cheering for the team.
My apathy for Gopher Athletics has grown since the dismantling of the WCHA. This depressing football season, the expansion of the "big ten" to 27 teams or whatever the F it is, and the NIL non-sense is only quickening my desire to not be anything more than a casual observer. I guess even though I am a millennial, you can put me in with the old grumpy boomers I guess.
When a program is 11th worst in the B1G for booster donations for a 15 year period - which you know translates to poor NIL support - what do people expect? btw I doubt Kill's health would have allowded him to continue at Minnesota for much longer. The pressure of the B1G is infinitely more difficult than whatever division his new program is in.
This is part of what is really turning me off from college athletics overall recently. I paid a TON of money to attend the school and only recently finally paid off the loans. I have to pay a lot of money to park, get tickets to attend a game, etc. I've got to buy BIG+ if I want to watch some of the games (hockey). And now I am expected to donate to keep a competitive roster together? In between calls from the university asking for donations to the general scholarship fund.
You can EFF right off with that. Everyone has their hand out for money right now as the cost of everything is rising, but my pay and my wife's pay isn't. Right now we can barely give a small amount to our church, let alone a college athletics department who rakes in millions from TV and Advertising deals. Bless those that have the means to donate to NIL deals, we do not, and quite frankly aren't that interested in that particular 'charity' even if we did have the means.
If this is what college athletics is going to be... I'll just become a casual fan at best, and not go out of my way to bring my kids and bring them up cheering for the team.
My apathy for Gopher Athletics has grown since the dismantling of the WCHA. This depressing football season, the expansion of the "big ten" to 27 teams or whatever the F it is, and the NIL non-sense is only quickening my desire to not be anything more than a casual observer. I guess even though I am a millennial, you can put me in with the old grumpy boomers I guess.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel
I do find it kinda interesting that the haves basically call all the shots in NCAA football while the have nots somehow call all the shots in hockey. Seems like we get the worst of both worlds as far as the NCAA is concerned as a gopher fan.
And yeah if I’m donating money it’s going to be to actual real world causes. I’m not certain how much of the allure for recruits in football is NIL money vs everything else, teams like Alabama and OSU were doing perfectly fine before that became a thing. It probably isn’t helping us but the issue for gopher athletics clearly precedes that.
Athan to the transfer portal
https://twitter.com/ryanburnsmn/status/1729562019534115206?s=46&t=UtlPiq7Vt1Te97QT76L7LQ
Hmm.
I do find it kinda interesting that the haves basically call all the shots in NCAA football while the have nots somehow call all the shots in hockey. Seems like we get the worst of both worlds as far as the NCAA is concerned as a gopher fan.
And yeah if I’m donating money it’s going to be to actual real world causes. I’m not certain how much of the allure for recruits in football is NIL money vs everything else, teams like Alabama and OSU were doing perfectly fine before that became a thing. It probably isn’t helping us but the issue for gopher athletics clearly precedes that.
I read an article that the NIL stuff is a factor in recruiting but it's a much bigger factor in the transfer portal than it is in recruiting.
Essentially the reasoning was this: Players aren't allowed to sign anything NIL-related before they get to college (ie: when they are being recruited) so a coach can say "We'll give you this and this and this" to get them to commit to come play at their school, and then the player gets to campus and some of it may not be available. Whereas when they are in the portal the coach can say "Hey we've got 250k here, sign with us and the money will go to your account in 20 minutes".
Found the article here:
https://www.on3.com/nil/news/high-school-football-recruiting-nil-market-irregularity-parents/
So basically the NCAA has created complete and unrestrictive free agency without the pesky issue of contract length. This can't end well...
“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree! There are many schools that won't be able to compete against schools with lots of booster money for NIL. It's going to be the Have's against the Have Nots! Attendance for the have nots will drop& there will be schools that won't have the revenue to keep playing football.
This was a terrible move by the NCAA!
Couldn't the NCAA fix this by just admitting this is a for profit league and treating it like a minor league to the NFL? The AHL had regulation that prevents this chaos so I assume that would be legal. They would have to give players salaries and negotiate contracts but school could be a part of that as well.
Athan to the transfer portal
https://twitter.com/ryanburnsmn/status/1729562019534115206?s=46&t=UtlPiq7Vt1Te97QT76L7LQ
Not surprising since yesterday we offered Max Brosmer out of UNH. I guess he's a pretty good FCS QB. 247 has him as 4-star (90) as a transfer. He was a rivals 2 star high-school ranking, rivals doesn't have a transfer rating on him.
He holds offers from us, Western Michigan, Western Kentucky, and University of Buffalo.
Take that for what you will.
And, yes, the decision to make the transfer portal open no matter the circumstances AND allow NIL without restriction is the death of college sports and likely most Cinderella stories as those type of schools can't compete (a la MN).
there is a god
Couldn't the NCAA fix this by just admitting this is a for profit league and treating it like a minor league to the NFL? The AHL had regulation that prevents this chaos so I assume that would be legal. They would have to give players salaries and negotiate contracts but school could be a part of that as well.
I don't think there are easy fixes here.
Let's keep in mind that technically, the NC$$ does not allow ANY recruitment of players using NIL. Coaches are not supposed to be able to direct NIL dollars under NC$$ rules.
(Edit: remember-- the NC$$ did not want to open up NIL. The Courts forced that, and fear of more lawsuits caused the transfer portal to occur. Don't necessarily blame this on the NC$$-- as much blame as we think they are owed, this isn't their direct doing.)
But ironically, a well-heeled booster shows up at the time of a visit by a kid in the portal and happens to park right next to the recruit's car and have a bag stuffed with cash. That is not against the rules.
(But of course, even if you police the former, how do you prevent the latter? Spend a moment and look into how SMU got an invite into the ACC. That will tell you everything you need to know what is happening to college sports currently)
Note that even if the NC$$ opens up and calls it a for-profit league, it runs into a different issue-- unionization and further antitrust problems. That leads toward all sorts of new rules and costs that schools are currently able to skirt.
Put closer to home, do you think UMD/Bemidji/SCSU/MSU-M will be able to pay their players AND profit from hockey? What will happen to their other sports if they did that?
I posted an article in the College Football thread regarding the Power 5 (well, 4.2) schools looking to discard the NCAA and create their own paid-athlete model. If that happens, what we know as the NC$$ goes away altogether-- and a new world order begins.
Now think of how that affects college hockey.
I agree this won't be fixed easily. I think it's more likely they will have to cut off a foot to save the leg. Schools like UMD or Bemidji will get screwed to try and save schools like Minnesota or Iowa a state. Unfortunately that also probably means screwing over sports like hockey to try and save football. I don't like where this is going...
2nd QB to leave today Drew Votto is hitting the portal
Cole Kramer will be our only scholarship QB for the bowl game and we may enter 2024 with only a walk-on QB if Brosmer doesn't accept (or we'll fall to worse case scenarios). This is something I will blame Fleck for. We skipped a recruiting class at QB to keep Athan and here we are.
Yes, there is a QB in the 2024 class, but he can't be the starter unless we're resigned to another 2023 season.
Dumb question.. If they enter the portal they can't play in the bowl game, or does the team not want them around since they are leaving? I swear I recall a Penn St goalie enter the portal and still was on the team a few years ago. Side note, this is why the portal should not be open until after each sports season is over.
I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.
It’s up to the player and coach as far as I can tell. But I doubt Fleck wants to move forward with someone leaving. Nothing about his persona suggests he’d do that. And I wouldn’t want to risk injury as a player, unless I’m desperate to prove value. I’m which case, the portal probably isn’t a strong choice.
technically, don’t believe the portal opens until 12/4 but regardless they can remove their name at any time
I would assume Athan ends up at either a G5 school or lower. It is going to take a lot of work to fix the kinks in his throwing motion. I think Jeff George was the last guy who was able to sidearm as much as Athan did.
College sports is dying...
Sounds like Fleck informed the QB room there would be competition via the portal and both were so confident and committed they took their ball and ran.
People today just expecting to be given something.
I didn’t realize Kramer has a year of eligibility left and could return. Not that he’d play, but could offer transition support.
This Bosmer kid also only has a year of eligibility left, so not more than a stop gap solution if he accepts. Which, I guess we should know on Monday or so.
Sounds like Fleck informed the QB room there would be competition via the portal and both were so confident and committed they took their ball and ran.
People today just expecting to be given something.
I didn’t realize Kramer has a year of eligibility left and could return. Not that he’d play, but could offer transition support.
This Bosmer kid also only has a year of eligibility left, so not more than a stop gap solution if he accepts. Which, I guess we should know on Monday or so.
Not that it's ideal, but given everything that has happened - the ideal scenario now is probably getting Bosmer to accept and start next year, with Kramer and Drake Lindsey (3* from Fayetteville, Arkansas) as the backup. Then hope like hell that Lindsey can redshirt and take over as the started next year.
I know that Kramer walked on Senior Day, so I believe the expectation was that he wasn't returning - I wonder if he's ready to move on, or if he'd stay as a backup for another year?
I would assume Athan ends up at either a G5 school or lower. It is going to take a lot of work to fix the kinks in his throwing motion. I think Jeff George was the last guy who was able to sidearm as much as Athan did.
College sports is dying...
NIL and Transfer Portal to blame
I would assume Athan ends up at either a G5 school or lower. It is going to take a lot of work to fix the kinks in his throwing motion. I think Jeff George was the last guy who was able to sidearm as much as Athan did.
College sports is dying...
NIL and Transfer Portal to blame
I would add agents advisors to that list.
“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would assume Athan ends up at either a G5 school or lower. It is going to take a lot of work to fix the kinks in his throwing motion. I think Jeff George was the last guy who was able to sidearm as much as Athan did.
College sports is dying...
NIL and Transfer Portal to blame
I would add agents advisors to that list.
Very True
I'm curious how long this goes and how much it blows up before something actually happens to bring control around it. We're seeing supposed $1M transfer offers out there. At some point this is going to force some type of response.
Like, should NU, MN, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, maybe even WI succeed from the B1G and create the "we broke" conference? I joke, but this is going to require some sort of shift in philosophy.
I'm curious how long this goes and how much it blows up before something actually happens to bring control around it. We're seeing supposed $1M transfer offers out there. At some point this is going to force some type of response.
Like, should NU, MN, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, maybe even WI succeed from the B1G and create the "we broke" conference? I joke, but this is going to require some sort of shift in philosophy.
I dont buy those rumors of money at all. They remind me of the crap agents throw out there to get coaches raises. They are trying to create a market.
The problem is the NCAA has no power to stop anything. NIL is not supposed to be "Pay for Play" but that is what it has turned into. It is disgusting. When coaches have to openly speak out about how they are having issues because they can't pony up money we are in a very dark place. I know when Fleck did that it irked some people but what he said was factually true and it is time that people start to realize how far down the rabbit hole we are.
As for your other point...there is two answers to that question both correct. From a competitive standpoint those schools should all join the MAC or CUSA or whatever. Yes even WI and Iowa. The last straw was getting rid of divisions it is going to take a Herculean effort and a very, very very favorable schedule for any of them to finish top 2 even before the Pac-4 join. tOSU is going to get rid of Day soon meaning they will be back to normal levels plus Michigan is a juggernaut post cheating and Penn State is going to enjoy the schedule freedom they have not had being in the East. Even if Iowa or WI somehow sneak to #2 and find a way into the Title Game they are going to still get trounced by whoever is #1. Add 4 more schools to the mix (3 of whom are at least on the level of Penn State with Washington being better IMHO) and...yeah.
The problem is the other correct answer to the question...money. If those schools left they would all destroy their athletic departments. You would be losing that sweet BTN cash not to mention the even split on all bowl money. Never going to happen.
I won't lie, if the rivals went with us (minus Michigan obviously) a Big Ten with most of the old guard and maybe Nebraska could be a lot of fun to be a part of. Then again I would rather we went back to the old way anyways...the regionality of college football was what made it great. Arguing over who won a title based on the polls was fun as heck! The days when going to the Rose Bowl was not a consolation prize.
Sounds like Fleck informed the QB room there would be competition via the portal and both were so confident and committed they took their ball and ran.
People today just expecting to be given something.
I didn’t realize Kramer has a year of eligibility left and could return. Not that he’d play, but could offer transition support.
This Bosmer kid also only has a year of eligibility left, so not more than a stop gap solution if he accepts. Which, I guess we should know on Monday or so.
Not that it's ideal, but given everything that has happened - the ideal scenario now is probably getting Bosmer to accept and start next year, with Kramer and Drake Lindsey (3* from Fayetteville, Arkansas) as the backup. Then hope like hell that Lindsey can redshirt and take over as the started next year.
I know that Kramer walked on Senior Day, so I believe the expectation was that he wasn't returning - I wonder if he's ready to move on, or if he'd stay as a backup for another year?
I dont see much value in Kramer staying outside of being an unofficial coach. He never played enough to be that much of a help imho. If he plans to coach some day though I could see him sticking around.
There is a lot of QBs in the portal already and rumors are everywhere next week could get even crazier. Full on free agency is here and it is going to be impossible to predict. Have I mentioned I hate it? Used to be fun to watch QBs go from unable to get the system to becoming the leader of the team. Now everyone is just a part time rental. Even the NFL isn't this stupid.
Like, should NU, MN, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, maybe even WI succeed from the B1G and create the "we broke" conference? I joke, but this is going to require some sort of shift in philosophy.
I get you are joking, I would as far as outside of Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State and soon to be UCLA, USC, Oregon and Washington could fall into “we broke”.
Keep your stick on the ice...
How do you figure? At least 2 of them will make the CFP every year. All of those schools bring in tons of cash and have no issues bringing in talent. UCLA is the only one that really struggles but they will never not have the resources to compete. Hell 4 of them are amongst the best known helmet schools in the country even when they stink.
I'm saying Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, UCLA, USC, Oregon and Washington will be cream of the crop with money and recourses. Anyone else will just fighting to server year after year hoping to make a dent in the upper echelon.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Ok PJ Go get him
Duke quarterback Riley Leonard enters transfer portal
He will end up at somewhere like Notre Dame. We don't have the $$$ for a transfer like that.
I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.
