#8 Ohio St @ #1 Gop...
 
Notifications
Clear all

[Closed] #8 Ohio St @ #1 Gophers Feb 24 & 25

369 Posts
55 Users
150 Reactions
8,955 Views
upnorthkid
(@upnorthkid)
Broten Level
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 1442
Rep Pts: 3252
 

Head and shoulders the better team out there tonight. OSU had some flurries but the D and goaltending was outstanding. If this team isn’t right there in Tampa it will be a massive let down. So much talent and poise front to back or back to front, however you like to frame it


   
maroon and gold
(@maroon_and_gold)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3318
Rep Pts: 8588
 

OSU shot themselves in the foot. Taking 7 penalties against this team isn’t gonna work I don’t care how good your pk is. Dobes is a clown.


   
frozen4champs
(@frozen4champs)
Mayasich Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5978
Rep Pts: 14234
Post on old board: 9626
Topic starter  

Posted by: @mikeeruzione11

So Motzko confirmed we will get Lacombe back?

Bob said in his postgame that he will miss a couple of weeks. Here is the postgame from Jup.

 

I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.


   
Chill Kessel
(@chill-kessel)
Broten Level
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1120
Rep Pts: 2000
 

Posted by: @maroon_and_gold

OSU shot themselves in the foot. Taking 7 penalties against this team isn’t gonna work I don’t care how good your pk is. Dobes is a clown.

 

I find it hilarious that basically half of the penalties were on the goalie or the coach.

 


   
frozen4champs
(@frozen4champs)
Mayasich Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5978
Rep Pts: 14234
Post on old board: 9626
Topic starter  

What did Faber do to get the unsportsmanlike call?  I couldn't tell in the arena.

I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.


   
College Hockey Addict
(@collegehockeyaddict)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3961
Rep Pts: 9906
 

Posted by: @maroon_and_gold

OSU shot themselves in the foot. Taking 7 penalties against this team isn’t gonna work I don’t care how good your pk is. Dobes is a clown.

This season Ohio State is tied for 11th in most penalty minutes per game out of the 62 D1 team. I'm guessing because their PK has been so good this season they haven't focused as much on avoiding penalties.

But like you said you get into penalty trouble against a team as talented as the Gophers it's likely not going to end well.

 


   
MikeEruzione11
(@mikeeruzione11)
Brooks Level Golden
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1965
Rep Pts: 5155
 

Posted by: @frozen4champs

Posted by: @mikeeruzione11

So Motzko confirmed we will get Lacombe back?

Bob said in his postgame that he will miss a couple of weeks. Here is the postgame from Jup.

 

Just listened. Wow that is great news considering the circumstances and a huge sigh of relief. 

 


   




Chill Kessel
(@chill-kessel)
Broten Level
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1120
Rep Pts: 2000
 

Posted by: @frozen4champs

What did Faber do to get the unsportsmanlike call?  I couldn't tell in the arena.

Nothing apparent on TV. Which probably means he let the mouth run a bit.

 


   
College Hockey Addict
(@collegehockeyaddict)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3961
Rep Pts: 9906
 

Posted by: @chill-kessel

Posted by: @frozen4champs

What did Faber do to get the unsportsmanlike call?  I couldn't tell in the arena.

Nothing apparent on TV. Which probably means he let the mouth run a bit.

 

I hope it was for saying something to their goalie.

 


   
MikeEruzione11
(@mikeeruzione11)
Brooks Level Golden
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1965
Rep Pts: 5155
 

I thought the crowd tonight was outstanding. Gopher Hockey is so damn fun. 


   
Rau4SkiUMah reacted
Chill Kessel
(@chill-kessel)
Broten Level
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1120
Rep Pts: 2000
 

I'd have to rewatch but from where they were on the ice, I think he may have been speaking to a ref


   
maroon and gold
(@maroon_and_gold)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3318
Rep Pts: 8588
 

Posted by: @mikeeruzione11

I thought the crowd tonight was outstanding. Gopher Hockey is so damn fun. 

32 bodies shy of a sellout per Frank Mazacco

 


   
thinkbui
(@thinkbui)
Bonin Level
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 740
Rep Pts: 1075
Post on old board: 11106
 

Posted by: @karlsson

Agreed on Matvick. I’m a fan. 

What was the story with him again?  I remember he was our rinkside reporter on FSN nearly 2 decades ago now, but I don't recall why he left and was replaced with Lapanta.

 

Trigeminal Neuralgia Awareness
Not every disease is visible. Not every pain comes from an obvious wound. Some people you see day-to-day may be suffering in ways you or I may never understand and fighting just to live a normal life. Please consider contributing to the Facial Pain Association and together we can find a cure.


   
College Hockey Addict
(@collegehockeyaddict)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3961
Rep Pts: 9906
 

Cooley has 46 points and Snuggy has 44 points. Have the Gophers every had two freshmen hit 50 points in a season? I would really like their chances if we got to play an 8th place team twice next weekend but they still might do it.

At their current pace Cooley would need three more games and Snuggy would need five more games.


   




College Hockey Addict
(@collegehockeyaddict)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3961
Rep Pts: 9906
 

The Gophers are currently 17 points up in the conference. With a win tomorrow and a Michigan loss they win the conference by 20 points.


   
Chill Kessel
(@chill-kessel)
Broten Level
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1120
Rep Pts: 2000
 

Is that good?


   
Slap Shot
(@slap-shot)
Mariucci Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 4127
Rep Pts: 8514
Post on old board: 18942
 

Good Lord some of you need to stop posting from your phones.  ?

Wish I could have watched but I'll be good to go for the Saturday tilt. 


   
streakygopher
(@streakygopher)
Broten Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 1242
Rep Pts: 2917
Post on old board: 15478
 

Logan Cooley is pretty funny in that interview. He has a little-kid laugh that he can't hold back.

Rohlik seemed to indicate on the second penalty to make it 5 on 3 that Snuggerud should have been called for diving. Instead of being upset with the ref, he should have focused his ire on his own player who committed an obvious infraction that had to be called.

Great atmosphere tonight. Ohio state barely got a whiff in the Gophers' zone all game, and they scuttled the early energy they had by marching to the box. That will be the coach's message for tomorrow's game.


   
Slap Shot
(@slap-shot)
Mariucci Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 4127
Rep Pts: 8514
Post on old board: 18942
 

Watching the post-game video (and so many before) makes me appreciate the high Hockey IQ this team has, and lot of that comes from the coaching staff. Just one example was Cooley noting they were aware of OSU having scored 2 SHG in their last series. On the surface that seems like such an obvious think to know, but that comes from the coaches knowing the opponent and game-planning appropriately and then the players actually listening and acting upon it.

Also both players cited the play of their teammates without being prompted, and they seem laser-focused on the end goal. Koster comes across as a captain without the letter, and Cooley is well, just cool.  More than just the W-L record this has been one my favorite "teams" to watch in a very, very long time. 


   
gator
(@gator)
Brooks Level Golden
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 4027
Rep Pts: 6320
Post on old board: 16243
 

Posted by: @frozen4champs

What did Faber do to get the unsportsmanlike call?  I couldn't tell in the arena.

All live tv said was something like Faber was saying “that’s on me”. 

 

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
coondog
(@coondog)
Lucia Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 68
Rep Pts: 163
 

Posted by: @collegehockeyaddict

Posted by: @maroon_and_gold

Justen freaking Close man. I know they plan to roll Bartoskziewicz/Airey next year but how do you say no to another year of Close?

I completely agree. If Close wants to play next season I would let him. I am starting to wonder if a scenario of Barto transferring and Close being brought back could end up playing out but who knows at this point.

 

 

It would be super to have Close for another year. However, he is 24 years old and will be 25 at end of academic year. Right now, he is more than a year older than any other player and nearly two years older than anyone who sees significant ice time. I realize for some teams this is common. At some point he has to decide if he wants to move on with his life.  Is he a pro prospect at all (including Europe)?

 


   




Bertogliat
(@bertogliat)
Brooks Level Golden
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 2577
Rep Pts: 4901
Post on old board: 12555
 

Yeah, you can’t sit there in college, surrounded by 19/20 year olds, forever.


   
Gopherguy05
(@gopherguy05)
Stauber Level
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 565
Rep Pts: 921
Post on old board: 5335
 

Posted by: @chill-kessel

Posted by: @frozen4champs

What did Faber do to get the unsportsmanlike call?  I couldn't tell in the arena.

Nothing apparent on TV. Which probably means he let the mouth run a bit.

 

He was being a good captain. Things were getting chippier and in the last scrum an OSU player came up from behind and grabbed I think Nevers in a headlock. 

 

Faber was bitching at the refs to call something so that it didn't get worse and I'm guessing he either said something about his mother or just kept going past the refs line and got called for it. 

 


   
gator
(@gator)
Brooks Level Golden
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 4027
Rep Pts: 6320
Post on old board: 16243
 

Personally I didn’t think it was all that chippy in the third. OSU pretty much held it together as if the game was 4-2 and not 4-0. I mentioned early in this thread, Johnson could’ve been lit up late in the second and the OSU player held up.

It would’ve lots different if we were playing UND, SCSU or UMD. One thing I enjoy about the BIG over the WCHA is the little to no chippiness and the sportsmanship is at a better level. Maybe it has to do with being in the BIG and the quality of education… lol!!!

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
JoeGopher
(@joegopher)
Wooger Level
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 146
Rep Pts: 361
 

This is clearly the best defense the Gophers have had in my lifetime watching (1989 - present).  I would also say this is could be the best defense in College Hockey.  They rank with the 2018-2019 Bulldogs (who had a great top 4) at a minimum.


   
Composer
(@composer)
Stauber Level Golden
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 391
Rep Pts: 803
 

Posted by: @joegopher

This is clearly the best defense the Gophers have had in my lifetime watching (1989 - present).  I would also say this is could be the best defense in College Hockey.  They rank with the 2018-2019 Bulldogs (who had a great top 4) at a minimum.

In the postgame scrum, Bob said, “This is the best D-core I’ve ever had; it’s the best D-core I’ll ever have.”  (Approximate quote)

 


   
HandyNotDan
(@handyman)
Brooks Level Golden
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 1985
Rep Pts: 5677
Post on old board: 28736
 

Posted by: @thinkbui

Posted by: @karlsson

Agreed on Matvick. I’m a fan. 

What was the story with him again?  I remember he was our rinkside reporter on FSN nearly 2 decades ago now, but I don't recall why he left and was replaced with Lapanta.

 

I think ESPN signed him to do multiple sports.  It was around the time things went sideways with the Twins network.

 


   
Kelly Red
(@kelly-red)
Broten Level Golden
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1198
Rep Pts: 2575
 

What a great game!  Highly entertaining student section and a truly full crowd.  I think last night was the fullest all season with real butts in the seats vs just tickets sold.  The game highlight was Dobbs penalties.  We sit in sec 17 so a good view of the antics.  When he thought he’d drawn goalie interference and all his teammates were glove bumping and stick tapping him.  And then suddenly he realized HE’D drawn the interference, it was pure perfection. ?. Add in sweet swag, we managed to get both a blanket and one of the flags they were throwing out.  
Now we’re ready for 4:30 and Senior Night.  Go Gophers!! 

Note: Due to inflation dirty deeds will no longer be done dirt cheap.


   




mlhouse
(@mlhouse)
Wooger Level
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 178
Rep Pts: 413
 

@bertogliat   I would encourage him to come back.    He is older because he spent three seasons in juniors.  He is in his 4th actual year of college , is a two year academic Big Ten student, so another year to complete or extend his degree might be worthwhile.  They are, in the end, student-athletes and getting college degrees is important.

If he graduates in Spring and has other opportunities, and moves on, then I can fully understand that.

The Legend of Justen Close will be an all time lore for the University of Minnesota hockey program and I hope he will have his likeness memorialized in the All-American mural after this season.


   
College Hockey Addict
(@collegehockeyaddict)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 3961
Rep Pts: 9906
 

This season Closer is

2nd in wins (21)

5th in goals against average (1.99)

3rd in shut outs (6)

4th in saves percentage (.928)

In comparison here is Devon Levi

14th in wins (15)

20th in goals against average (2.27)

4th in shut outs (5)

1st in saves percentage (.932)

I am not saying Closer is better I am saying he is underrated.

Closer has been a key factor in the team's success over the past year and a half. I can't begin to count how many times coach has mentioned how much of a calming influence/rock he is. Teams tend to play much better when their goalie is a calming persistence.

How often as fans do we say the best thing about refs is when they are doing their job to the point where you aren't even thinking about them?

Having a goalie who does that for a team is invaluable. This team doesn't think about their goalie because he gives them no reason to like coach says he is steady as a rock/such a calming influence.

I will miss him when he leaves and I think the team will too. 

 

 


   
gopheritall and Steve MN reacted
Cowgirl
(@cowgirl)
Mariucci Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 3358
Rep Pts: 8344
Post on old board: 10120
 

Posted by: @gopherguy05

Posted by: @chill-kessel

Posted by: @frozen4champs

What did Faber do to get the unsportsmanlike call?  I couldn't tell in the arena.

Nothing apparent on TV. Which probably means he let the mouth run a bit.

 

He was being a good captain. Things were getting chippier and in the last scrum an OSU player came up from behind and grabbed I think Nevers in a headlock. 

 

Faber was bitching at the refs to call something so that it didn't get worse and I'm guessing he either said something about his mother or just kept going past the refs line and got called for it. 

 

I watched the highlights after I got home, it looked in the post game handshakes that he may have been apologizing to the ref.  If so, classy move.  

 


   
maroon and gold
(@maroon_and_gold)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3318
Rep Pts: 8588
 

That 2020-21 Gopher goalie trio is starting to look like the infamous stacked 2020 Alabama QB room. Seriously, prime LaFontaine, Justen Close and Jared Moe who is a damn good goalie as much as gopher fans like to rip him. 


   
maroon and gold
(@maroon_and_gold)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3318
Rep Pts: 8588
 

Posted by: @kelly-red

What a great game!  Highly entertaining student section and a truly full crowd.  I think last night was the fullest all season with real butts in the seats vs just tickets sold.  The game highlight was Dobbs penalties.  We sit in sec 17 so a good view of the antics.  When he thought he’d drawn goalie interference and all his teammates were glove bumping and stick tapping him.  And then suddenly he realized HE’D drawn the interference, it was pure perfection. ?. Add in sweet swag, we managed to get both a blanket and one of the flags they were throwing out.  
Now we’re ready for 4:30 and Senior Night.  Go Gophers!! 

That whole sequence was gold. I was just waiting for him to realize he took the penalty. I think the Buckeye power play unit even hopped on the ice and started skating to the Gophers end?

 


   
Kelly Red
(@kelly-red)
Broten Level Golden
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1198
Rep Pts: 2575
 

Posted by: @maroon_and_gold

Posted by: @kelly-red

What a great game!  Highly entertaining student section and a truly full crowd.  I think last night was the fullest all season with real butts in the seats vs just tickets sold.  The game highlight was Dobbs penalties.  We sit in sec 17 so a good view of the antics.  When he thought he’d drawn goalie interference and all his teammates were glove bumping and stick tapping him.  And then suddenly he realized HE’D drawn the interference, it was pure perfection. ?. Add in sweet swag, we managed to get both a blanket and one of the flags they were throwing out.  
Now we’re ready for 4:30 and Senior Night.  Go Gophers!! 

That whole sequence was gold. I was just waiting for him to realize he took the penalty. I think the Buckeye power play unit even hopped on the ice and started skating to the Gophers end?

 

They did, that made it even better.  Then on his delay of game penalty for like the 4th net kick he was trying to explain or excuse himself to the ref and the ref just swept his hand at him like Nope, go away.

 

Note: Due to inflation dirty deeds will no longer be done dirt cheap.


   
trixR4kids
(@trixr4kids)
Broten Level
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1197
Rep Pts: 2434
Post on old board: 15139
 

I recorded the game yesterday and watched it later/forgot to post anything. First off I thought it was funny to see the game get delayed by some middling bouncy ball teams yet again, luckily I could just fast forward through that barn burner ? 

I can’t believe how many times Dobes knocked the net off, I get that these guys play at a high level where passes come across quickly and you need to get a forceful push to get across. But as someone who’s played against (former washed up) D1 players on a net that doesn’t have the rubber pegs going six inches into the ice (the metal pegs that go less than an inch) I maybe knock the net off once or never in an average night of playing. Somehow Dobes did it like five times in the first alone and the refs obviously agreed, he literally ran into the post on that one and then kicked it as hard as he could ?. Also the guy is a headcase, he did play pretty well to back it up but the guy has as many screws loose as Binnington.

Other than that all I can say is that I’m glad this team can convert on their PP chances and aren’t horribly inept in that area like some past gopher teams. As much as I wouldn’t mind a repeat my guess is that today will be played more at 5x5. Rohlik really helped his team with his penalty too lol.


   




maroon and gold
(@maroon_and_gold)
Mariucci Level
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3318
Rep Pts: 8588
 

Ohio State will come out with their A game. Gophers gotta be ready to actually play 5 on 5 lol


   
upnorthkid
(@upnorthkid)
Broten Level
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 1442
Rep Pts: 3252
 

Posted by: @maroon_and_gold

Ohio State will come out with their A game. Gophers gotta be ready to actually play 5 on 5 lol

 

not to mention this is a massive game for OSU, both for PWR and for the BTT. Get on them early and we may see them implode again. 

 


   
Rau4SkiUMah reacted
ddillon22
(@ddillon22)
Wooger Level
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 70
Rep Pts: 205
 

Yes 5x5 play will be important going forward as refs will quit calling penalties now in March and April.  Don't think it is fair to teams that have a good power play but that is the way they do it.  I believe the Big Ten never got a power play in last year's frozen four even though they had half of the field.


   
Bertogliat
(@bertogliat)
Brooks Level Golden
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 2577
Rep Pts: 4901
Post on old board: 12555
 

The Gophers looked great 5x5 last night, but the Dobes goalie was ready for them.  He stopped everything while the Gophers pounded OSU with great scoring opportunities.  Just keep playing like last night and good things should happen.  Dobes just needed to realize he can be beat.  Now that he's owned, he will continue to leak goals into his net.  Have Koster stare him down from the point with a big grin.

Brodziski and Nelson with 3 goals between them today.  fOSU can host Michigan State as the 4th seed.

Go Gophers!


   
HandyNotDan reacted
frozen4champs
(@frozen4champs)
Mayasich Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5978
Rep Pts: 14234
Post on old board: 9626
Topic starter  

PIno is injured. 

https://twitter.com/JessRMyers/status/1629547867206479873?t=GvjT6A86rNGIoOrKBeDcBg&s=19

I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.


   
upnorthkid
(@upnorthkid)
Broten Level
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 1442
Rep Pts: 3252
 

Posted by: @ddillon22

Yes 5x5 play will be important going forward as refs will quit calling penalties now in March and April.  Don't think it is fair to teams that have a good power play but that is the way they do it.  I believe the Big Ten never got a power play in last year's frozen four even though they had half of the field.

 

A friend and I were discussing that last night. Definitely something that worries me about the playoffs, but this team also has shown they can pour goals in 5v5 as well. the 8-0 game vs MSU the PP goals were with the game well in hand (and one was scored by our 3rd pp unit), the 6-3 MSU game was without any PP goals, and the 7-2 PSU game the first 4 goals were ES goals. Needless to say this team on the PP is incredibly threatening, but they also will kill you 5v5. 

 

Just because I was curious, Cooley has only scored 2 of his 15 goals on the PP, Snuggerud 7 of his 20, and Knies 6 of his 20. Comes out to about ~70% of their goals being ES. 

 


   
bearpaw28
(@bearpaw28)
Leopold Level
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1279
Rep Pts: 1919
Post on old board: 6912
 

Posted by: @joegopher

This is clearly the best defense the Gophers have had in my lifetime watching (1989 - present).  I would also say this is could be the best defense in College Hockey.  They rank with the 2018-2019 Bulldogs (who had a great top 4) at a minimum.

I would rank the 01-02 D group the best in Gopher history (featuring future NHLers) Leopold, Martin, Ballard. And to be compared to UMD’s 18-19 group Perunovich, Anderson, Samberg, Wolfe…they’ll need to finish the job at the Frozen Four in Tampa


 


   




trixR4kids
(@trixr4kids)
Broten Level
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 1197
Rep Pts: 2434
Post on old board: 15139
 

This team consistently dominates territory/chances at 5v5 so I like their chances against anyone at even strength. I like how they generated chances with different looks at even last night, even against a D minded team they still got fast break chances and of that was taken away they’d just patiently probe the perimeter waiting for an opening.  


   
gator
(@gator)
Brooks Level Golden
Joined: 22 years ago
Posts: 4027
Rep Pts: 6320
Post on old board: 16243
 

Notre Dame beats Michigan in regulation…

PSU beats wisconSIN in regulation…

OSU gets one point tonight vs. the Gophers…

You’ll have a three way tie for second place.

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
frozen4champs
(@frozen4champs)
Mayasich Level Golden
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 5978
Rep Pts: 14234
Post on old board: 9626
Topic starter  

https://twitter.com/GopherHockey/status/1629579486294417410?t=ChKW6Eaw68L-japjIysYRg&s=19

I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.


   
Suffering Sota Fan
(@sufferingsotafan)
Wooger Level Golden
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 140
Rep Pts: 350
 

Posted by: @gator

Notre Dame beats Michigan in regulation…

PSU beats wisconSIN in regulation…

OSU gets one point tonight vs. the Gophers…

You’ll have a three way tie for second place.

 


Always Sunny Reaction GIF

 


   
gator and Rau4SkiUMah reacted
Driftryder
(@driftryder)
Micheletti Level Golden
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 216
Rep Pts: 616
 

This is really a fun team to watch, that D group is so solid they rarely make dumb mistakes with the puck. Then having Close backstop anything the D doesn't clear out, what a combo right now. On top of all that we are missing key D players which likely will be back for the NCAA tourney. I hope they can keep this going through the Tourney and on to Tampa! Go Gophers!


   
Snowcool08
(@snowcool08)
Bonin Level Golden
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 661
Rep Pts: 1411
Post on old board: 6069
 

Will be interested after the game what LaCombe looks like during senior night festivities 


   
Idontknow
(@idontknow)
Bonin Level Golden
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 653
Rep Pts: 1298
 

Kronforst is the worst ref in college hockey.  No confidence they will get this right.


   




Rau4SkiUMah
(@rau4skiumah)
Broten Level
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 993
Rep Pts: 2463
 

If you call the Buckeye boarding on Brodzinski for 2 then both of those are two as well. 


   
Page 5 / 8