Speaking of offsides, I would like to see some kind of change there too. In addition to being called too tightly, video reviews of those tight calls that have been taking away goals is starting to feel way too far from the spirit of the offsides rule.
Not every disease is visible. Not every pain comes from an obvious wound. Some people you see day-to-day may be suffering in ways you or I may never understand and fighting just to live a normal life. Please consider contributing to the Facial Pain Association and together we can find a cure.
If anyone actually bothered to read the article, the McKay “doping scandal” is a non-story.
Completely agree. There often can be a huge difference between headlines and what is actually reported. Context.. is king.
The banned substance was not even listed in the "ingredients" in the supplement. No way he was to know. It's a non-story. You have to send to a lab/get tested tto find it? This was an innocent mistake. He owned up as soon as he found out, he's good, IMO.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I'm not sure waiting until the NCAA season was over is "owning up as soon as he found out"
I’m not sure waiting until the NCAA season was over is “owning up as soon as he found out”
According to the Strib article, that is when all the details came out and were confirmed. I am a harsh critic when it comes to this subject, and from what I've read, he's in the clear as far as knowingly cheating.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Just a shame that Ben Meyers did not cheat and had the Hobey given to someone who did.
Just a shame that Ben Meyers did not cheat and had the Hobey given to someone who did.
Might want to dial that back about 20%, Big Shoots. 😉
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
If my belief that cheating is wrong bothers you i don't know what to tell you. I'm not in favor of it.
I take one 50 mcg over-the-counter D3 a day and of course there is no mention of Ostarine under the list of ingredients. It does say its "An Essential Vitamin" and that it "Supports Bone and Immune Health" They are dirt cheap at Costco at $14.49 for 600 SOFTGELS. I wonder what brand of D3's he was taking?
If my belief that cheating is wrong bothers you i don’t know what to tell you. I’m not in favor of it.
The ingredient was not listed. He had no clue, per the context. If something else comes out, then yes, I may change my stance. To my knowledge, and his, he did nothing intentionally in the wrong. Sh* happens sometimes.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I forgot that the rules say no performance enhancers unless you say you didn't know. I stand corrected.
I forgot that the rules say no performance enhancers unless you say you didn’t know. I stand corrected.
From what I read in the Star Trib, the substance he took was legal, except for the ingredient that wasn't even listed on the substance. That's pretty much the definition of "unknowing."
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I'm glad you pointed out that the rules say if you didn't know all the substances are ok. They obviously say that, right?
I’m glad you pointed out that the rules say if you didn’t know all the substances are ok. They obviously say that, right?
They are not ok. However, if one is completely unaware of the substances in whatever, and the banned substance is NOT listed...it is forgivable, IMO. This seems to be the case here.
Here, have a taste of this can of soda pop. Oh, whoops, it contains [banned substance]. I know it's not listed in the description, but...
You didn't know. See the difference?
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I’m glad you pointed out that the rules say if you didn’t know all the substances are ok. They obviously say that, right?
They are not ok. However, if one is completely unaware of the substances in whatever, and the banned substance is NOT listed…it is forgivable, IMO. This seems to be the case here. Here, have a taste of this can of soda pop. Oh, whoops, it contains [banned substance]. I know it’s not listed in the description, but… You didn’t know. See the difference?
I see the difference between your hypothetical and with what actually happened. Somebody else didn't hand him the supplement. And didn't he go around the protocol of only taking what the team sanctions? Also how do we know he didn't know what was in it? Just because he said so?
Now for the record I lean towards this is a nothingburger but I think logically there's still some room for doubt/further questions.
Wasn't the amount found in the supplement like not enough to have an impact anyway? From what I can tell, he did his homework on it, everything was supposed to be ok, and a microscopic amount ended up being in there. I'm not a black and white kind of thinker, context is important.
I would think that EVERYONE in Sports these days knows they do not just take a supplement. Especially when they have jobs like these at University's now.
https://gophersports.com/sports/2020/8/11/sports-nutrition.aspx
Give me a break. I am not buying this "I didn't know" crap.
Word from inside the athletic department at MSU is that going forward there is a no grey area on accepted supplements within the athletic programs. I am still really surprised that there wasn't something in place already.
I am the official Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!
If anyone actually bothered to read the article, the McKay “doping scandal” is a non-story.
Completely agree. There often can be a huge difference between headlines and what is actually reported. Context.. is king.
The banned substance was not even listed in the “ingredients” in the supplement. No way he was to know. It’s a non-story. You have to send to a lab/get tested to find it? This was an innocent mistake. He owned up as soon as he found out, he’s good, IMO.
He was informed of the USADA's decision the day before the NCAA tournament started. He had 20 days to respond, and used every one of them before accepting the suspension. If he'd accepted the USADA's decision "As soon as he found out" he would have been ineligible to play in the tournament entirely.
The Hobey voting was already done by that point, and no, I don't honestly think that whatever it was actually helped him play better, but he still made sure not to respond to the USADA decision until AFTER the tournament. Was that allowed? Yes. He had 20 days. But, that is NOT owning up as soon as he found out.
Did he know the supplement contained something banned that wasn't listed? Almost certainly not. However, anyone in athletics these days should damned well know to not take supplements that haven't been explicitly listed as allowable, simply because of how many times this exact thing has come up.
"I didn't know" doesn't work as a defense when he should very well know that supplements don't always list things properly, and may include something that's banned.
B1G refs... corrupt, or just incompetent?
I would think that EVERYONE in Sports these days knows they do not just take a supplement. Especially when they have jobs like these at University’s now. https://gophersports.com/sports/2020/8/11/sports-nutrition.aspx
/a> Give me a break. I am not buying this “I didn’t know” crap.
I'll buy that he didn't know the supplement contained anything.
But, you're still correct, everyone in competitive sports today should know all about this kind of problem, and stay away from anything that hasn't been specifically approved for use.
B1G refs... corrupt, or just incompetent?
I would think that EVERYONE in Sports these days knows they do not just take a supplement. Especially when they have jobs like these at University’s now. https://gophersports.com/sports/2020/8/11/sports-nutrition.aspx
/a> Give me a break. I am not buying this “I didn’t know” crap.I’ll buy that he didn’t know the supplement contained anything. But, you’re still correct, everyone in competitive sports today should know all about this kind of problem, and stay away from anything that hasn’t been specifically approved for use.
Sure, that's easy to buy. Can't prove a negative. I will not buy that he was not aware of the perils of taking supplements without the approval of a team official. His coach, trainer, nutritionist if they have one, etc. Anyone involved in sports knows better by now.
I’m glad you pointed out that the rules say if you didn’t know all the substances are ok. They obviously say that, right?
They are not ok. However, if one is completely unaware of the substances in whatever, and the banned substance is NOT listed…it is forgivable, IMO. This seems to be the case here. Here, have a taste of this can of soda pop. Oh, whoops, it contains [banned substance]. I know it’s not listed in the description, but… You didn’t know. See the difference?
I see the difference between your hypothetical and with what actually happened. Somebody else didn’t hand him the supplement. And didn’t he go around the protocol of only taking what the team sanctions? Also how do we know he didn’t know what was in it? Just because he said so? Now for the record I lean towards this is a nothingburger but I think logically there’s still some room for doubt/further questions.
Right, and you can't leave open the possibility for a little bit of "wink wink" types of set ups some companies might have. We'll make this supplement and you can look innocent and we'll leave some ingredients off the label to cover your butt. I'm not saying that what happened here but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Wasn’t the amount found in the supplement like not enough to have an impact anyway? From what I can tell, he did his homework on it, everything was supposed to be ok, and a microscopic amount ended up being in there. I’m not a black and white kind of thinker, context is important.
I think the line about the amount came from MSU so you have to take that with a grain of salt (pun intended).
It was enough to trigger the alarm, therefore it must have been significant enough.
Wasn’t the amount found in the supplement like not enough to have an impact anyway? From what I can tell, he did his homework on it, everything was supposed to be ok, and a microscopic amount ended up being in there. I’m not a black and white kind of thinker, context is important.
There is no reason to assume it was a "microscopic amount."
Wasn’t the amount found in the supplement like not enough to have an impact anyway? From what I can tell, he did his homework on it, everything was supposed to be ok, and a microscopic amount ended up being in there. I’m not a black and white kind of thinker, context is important.
There is no reason to assume it was a “microscopic amount.”
Well according to the article, "In addition to the sealed bottle revealing an illegal substance, the other thing that helped McKay was a tiny level of Ostarine in his system — 22 picograms. (A picogram is one-trillionth of a gram.)"
That doesn't sound like a lot to me, but I could be wrong.
It is very possible for ostarine to be on a label without actually listing "ostarine" on the label. Sometimes supplements are listed on the label by their IUPAC name instead of their common name. In this case, ostarine is also "(2<i>S</i>)-3-(4-cyanophenoxy)-<i>N</i>-[4-cyano-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide."
If the supplement was listed on the label as (2<i>S</i>)-3-(4-cyanophenoxy)-<i>N</i>-[4-cyano-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide, then Hobey Dryden can claim "ostarine" wasn't on the label of my supplement.
:scratch:
Boy, the side-taking in this argument has really taken off.
I thought I made a post earlier but I guess it didn’t stick.
Maybe we should all submit all of our daily vitamins/supplements to a lab for testing to compare label to product accuracy. I’d be willing to bet there are a lot of surprises. Not necessarily banned performance enhancing supplements, but it would be interesting for sure.
Anyone who comes up with a banned substance whether they knew it or not gets banned from GPL 😉
We aren’t McKay so we don’t know all 100% of the details - and never will. With the information available to me at this time it sounds like he did the right things after the positive test and that his intent to “cheat” was not there. That opinion may change if more information arises to the contrary.
But geez, some of you need to lighten up. If this exact situation had happened to Meyers I bet you’d be in his corner. ?
I'd be calling out Ben for being an idiot for taking a supplement that isn't specifically listed as being OK
This problem with taking supplements that contain things that athletes didn't necessarily know about has been a problem for decades now. I'm not saying he intended to cheat, but he was stupid for taking a supplement without it being approved.
I certainly might have something in my system that's considered a "banned substance" but I'm not an athlete in consideration for a pro career or Olympic competition, either, so it doesn't matter.
The rules don't fully acknowledge the "I didn't know it was in there defense" because it's far too easy to abuse. They did (rightly, I'd say) take that into account with the minimal length of the suspension.
B1G refs... corrupt, or just incompetent?
I once had this informant who made Bill Romanowski's regiment look simple. I don't know why he needed it, it wasn't relevant to ask. Great guy and hell of a good bowler, by the way.
I thought I made a post earlier but I guess it didn’t stick. Maybe we should all submit all of our daily vitamins/supplements to a lab for testing to compare label to product accuracy. I’d be willing to bet there are a lot of surprises. Not necessarily banned performance enhancing supplements, but it would be interesting for sure. Anyone who comes up with a banned substance whether they knew it or not gets banned from GPL 😉 We aren’t McKay so we don’t know all 100% of the details – and never will. With the information available to me at this time it sounds like he did the right things after the positive test and that his intent to “cheat” was not there. That opinion may change if more information arises to the contrary. But geez, some of you need to lighten up. If this exact situation had happened to Meyers I bet you’d be in his corner. ?
I'm a big Twins fan and have been pretty hard on all the Twins that were caught cheating with PEDs.
There is some buzz on Twitter that Mike Hastings could be in consideration for Michigan State and BU jobs.
It's a big jump down in facilities and staffing from a B1G institution to a D-2 school that plays a D-1 sport like MSU-Mankato.
I can see first hand what SCSU has in place, and while they try very hard, it isn't anywhere close to the resources across the board that the U of M has for nutrition. There is a lot more flexibility given to SCSU athletes than the U gets, though their strength/training is pretty similar, but SCSU doesn't have the resources to fund a full time training table for just the mens/womens hockey teams, and they certainly aren't doing it for D2 basketball much less any other nonrevenue sport, for example.
Specific to recruiting players for hockey (not ? or ?) Michigan State has a lot of potential but isn’t in a good place now, arguably dead last of 8 teams where Mankato is 1st of 8 teams in the CCHA. I could see Hastings considering East Lansing based on ?alone, I get that, but he has a REALLY GOOD thing going in Mankato from a winning standpoint that won’t be changing anytime soon as the BIG FISH in a small pond ?
Specific to recruiting players for hockey (not ? or ?) Michigan State has a lot of potential but isn’t in a good place now, arguably dead last of 8 teams where Mankato is 1st of 8 teams in the CCHA. I could see Hastings considering East Lansing based on ?alone, I get that, but he has a REALLY GOOD thing going in Mankato from a winning standpoint that won’t be changing anytime soon as the BIG FISH in a small pond ?
can he keep this going when current players are gone?
Michigan State would be an upgrade in every facet from MSU-Mankato if Hastings would chose to go there. I wouldn't even worry about the players that are there, look at what Hastings did with Rusty's bunch of kids his first few years! The upgrade in facilities and budget alone should make the decision a little bit easier. Now the pressure to build back what once was will be there, but isn't that the lure of coaching?
Let's look at the fact that MSU-Mankato is stuck with their facility. It got an upgrade a few years ago but there is NO room to build on anywhere at the Civic Center. The only place that can get an upgrade is the visitors locker rooms, which are embarrassing. You can't fit an entire team in one room, teams have to split into two rooms. As far as budget goes Hastings is the budget, as in his pay.
Also like Ski-U-Mah Law talked about the support services like training and nutrition. Mankato has ONE guy to take care of that for ALL their programs. He focuses on football and hockey, he uses his graduate assistants to take care of the other sports. Michigan State probably has a dedicated staff to see to strength and nutrition, that's huge.
I'm not saying that Hastings isn't happy here in Mankato, all indications are he has no desire to leave. With his kids being college age there isn't anything locking him here to Mankato other than to keep building on his legacy here. Just my opinion though...if he stays here I would have a hard time putting his name up with the legends of coaching like York, Parker, or Berenson. Those three were big fishes in big ponds for a long time, being a big fish in a little pond isn't as admirable.
I believe Hastings should move on and I would love to see him move on to any three of those jobs; BU, BC, or Michigan State. Hastings assistant Todd Knott could easily take over the reigns here in Mankato and be just as successful here in Mankato. If Hastings really wants to move on I believe that Mankato just doesn't have the resources to keep him here. Any of those three could easily outbid Mankato for his services, but I don't believe this to be about money for Hastings.
He is a good guy so I don't believe it will be about the money, it will be about the position and the challenge. The timing would be bad for Mankato though, they don't return a team that will be as ready as this past season to compete the way they did. If Hastings were to leave the optics may look bad as if he was leaving because of that. Regardless Mankato fans will be butthurt if he does leave, but they will be pissed if Todd Knott leaves for a coaching job.
Sorry for the ramble but this discussion is heating up here in Mankato because of the success Hastings is having and it is getting noticed throughout college hockey. To me if Hastings were to leave Mankato I would think it would be for one of these programs...but in the end I am just guessing like the rest of us.
I am the official Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!
IIRC the National Hockey Center has puny visitor locker rooms as well. I think visiting teams usually take up 3 locker rooms to fit all of their players, staff, equipment, etc.
I haven't been in there since the renovation however. I will be there this weekend, so I'll make sure to check it out again for curiosity.
I’m not a great mind when it comes to coaching and recruiting but Hastings has spent a career developing inroads into the Midwest hockey scene. Would that make the Michigan State job more appealing than BU? He likely doesn’t have nearly the connections on the East Coast as he does in the Midwest.
I’m not a great mind when it comes to coaching and recruiting but Hastings has spent a career developing inroads into the Midwest hockey scene. Would that make the Michigan State job more appealing than BU? He likely doesn’t have nearly the connections on the East Coast as he does in the Midwest.
His son goes to college at Northeastern in Boston, so there is that connection. But there is nothing to say that his son will remain there after graduating in 2023 I believe. His only connection really is to St Cloud State where he played and Brett Larson seemed really entrenched there.
Really though looking at his rosters over the years here I wouldn't say that it is location based, maybe early on but not recently. I know in the last five years they have recruited heavily in the BCHL because of ties with former Mav players. So I don't think location in regards to recruiting would be a basis for him to make a choice between programs.
I am the official Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!
I’m not a great mind when it comes to coaching and recruiting but Hastings has spent a career developing inroads into the Midwest hockey scene. Would that make the Michigan State job more appealing than BU? He likely doesn’t have nearly the connections on the East Coast as he does in the Midwest.
Though would Hasting's change his ways of recruiting at BIG college and a college like BU. Are recruits going to want to wait to go to college and play 2-3 years post high school. The education and acceptance requirements at colleges like Michigan St. and Boston University isn't like Minnesota State. I would think recruits at MSU and BU are more incline to keep their education going for their post hockey careers.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Specific to recruiting players for hockey (not ? or ?) Michigan State has a lot of potential but isn’t in a good place now, arguably dead last of 8 teams where Mankato is 1st of 8 teams in the CCHA. I could see Hastings considering East Lansing based on ?alone, I get that, but he has a REALLY GOOD thing going in Mankato from a winning standpoint that won’t be changing anytime soon as the BIG FISH in a small pond ?
can he keep this going when current players are gone?
Well, Hastings has kept it going for a decade, not sure why that might change if he stays ☝️
Specific to recruiting players for hockey (not or ) Michigan State has a lot of potential but isn’t in a good place now, arguably dead last of 8 teams where Mankato is 1st of 8 teams in the CCHA. I could see Hastings considering East Lansing based on alone, I get that, but he has a REALLY GOOD thing going in Mankato from a winning standpoint that won’t be changing anytime soon as the BIG FISH in a small pond
can he keep this going when current players are gone?
Well, Hastings has kept it going for a decade, not sure why that might change if he stays
They have been the best WCHA/CCHA team since the formation of the B1G/NaCHo leagues formed. But I'd say the last 4-5 years they have been Top 2 seed in the NCAAs. Before that....
I understand it takes time to start a new program and he built quickly. But can he sustain what he built in Mankato for the next few years? Or come back down to earth? Is it his system? Or these players? Is the pipeline strong?
I am legitimately asking, I don't follow the Mavericks.
I had to go look but I would attribute the bulk of Mankato's success on Hastings as a coach. He went 12-24-2 his first year and then flipped it to 24-14-3 his second year and making the NCAA's. That second year was also in the old WCHA where they split with the Gophers, Whioux, and Badgers all with mainly Jutting players. Hastings turned Matt Leitner into an All American as well, MSU's first since David Backes.
So, to answer the question I think MSU will maintain their success in the CCHA as long as Hastings is here. On the national level I think they will have their ups and downs. With no real goaltending successor in line after McKay will be their biggest question mark. But Hastings has a pretty good record with goaltending since he took over.
They have a decent pipeline set up with two guys coming from the BCHL who are in the top 5 in scoring for the year. Looking at the rest of the incoming class it is filled with guys with extended time in the NAHL, USHL, or some Canadian junior league experience. You have kids from Albert Lea, Stillwater, Rosemount, and Alexandria...you know, D1 hockey recruiting hot beds.
So Hastings has his copy and paste ways here in Mankato and it has taken him to the top. But Denver showed what a team with grit, talent, and experience can do.
I am the official Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!
Specific to recruiting players for hockey (not or ) Michigan State has a lot of potential but isn’t in a good place now, arguably dead last of 8 teams where Mankato is 1st of 8 teams in the CCHA. I could see Hastings considering East Lansing based on alone, I get that, but he has a REALLY GOOD thing going in Mankato from a winning standpoint that won’t be changing anytime soon as the BIG FISH in a small pond
can he keep this going when current players are gone?
Well, Hastings has kept it going for a decade, not sure why that might change if he stays
They have been the best WCHA/CCHA team since the formation of the B1G/NaCHo leagues formed. But I’d say the last 4-5 years they have been Top 2 seed in the NCAAs. Before that…. I understand it takes time to start a new program and he built quickly. But can he sustain what he built in Mankato for the next few years? Or come back down to earth? Is it his system? Or these players? Is the pipeline strong? I am legitimately asking, I don’t follow the Mavericks.
As U might be aware, I follow the Bulldogs closely & follow the Gophers too…but regarding the Mavs, they’re the best team in the CCHA and nothing indicates that will change anytime soon…his strategy of recruiting less heralded, older players logically won’t change. In a hockey sense in the CCHA, he rules in hell as opposed to serving in heaven (as a member of the NCHC or Big Ten) hence the 30+ win season ☝️
If Mel is out at Michigan it will be interesting to see how the dominoes fall there. The portal could expand a bit.
'29, '40, '74, '76, '79, '02, & '03
GPL's Resident Cabin Enthusiast & Cadets Hockey Fan
If Pearson is out at the end of the month it will definitely make the coaching carousel a little bit crazy as well with three of the all time programs each looking for a new man at the helm of their programs.
Seriously though, who are the names that would be on the top of the lists for each job? From what I keep reading is that out east they aren't looking outside of the region for their coaches. I have made my case in other posts why Hastings could do well out there but BU and BC really like to keep things in house with hires. Weirdly I read one article that listed David Quinn as a possibility for the BU spot.
Michigan has kept things in house with both Berenson and Pearson but who knows where they would go now. Michigan State has went that route with their last two coaches and has worked out awfully.
I will admit that I am more interested than normal in the coaching vacancies because I do think either Hastings or Knott will be leaving MSU. Knott has been named too many times in the last couple of years to keep turning down, if he is turning down, a head coaching spot somewhere else. Maybe he is just fine not having the spotlight on him as the main guy and is just fine with his associate head coach role here in Mankato.
I am the official Iowa Hawkeye football fan of GPL!
Nate Leaman is not a heavy contender for either of the Boston schools? Seems like a no brainer.
Not just three of the all time programs looking, actually four. UM 9 + BC 5 + BU 5+ MSU 3. Crazy. Should really be + uw 6 but probably one more year.
Greg Brown appears to be the favorite for the BC job. BC player, long time York assistant, was an assistant for the Rangers for 3 years, currently the head coach at Dubuque.
Sounds like the UConn coach could have had the BC job if he wanted it but decided to stay with the Huskies.
Do not like how this board is run?
Get your own board!
♃
https://twitter.com/HobeyBakerAward/status/1517223665015959552?s=20&t=rN0neny2qsQSxtI0tdLXKg/blockquote >
Is that called saving face?
I’m pretty sure the committee would’ve known about that before voting.