They are the NFL worst 10-2 team in the league 😎
Aloha!
Well right now they are the only 10-2 so they are also the best 10-2 team. 😉
Philadelphia and Buffalo are both 9-2.
I dont care if we are the worst 10-2 team after all the games are played...we are 10-2 and that is all that matters. I highly doubt anyone had that on their bingo card especially with Darnold starting.
Honestly, if we hadnt had to play the Rams on Thursday Night I think we beat them. But no matter you can only play the schedule in front of you.
FTR, I had 11.5 O/U wins for the Vikes (have a bet with a buddy, took the over). I still might lose it, but unlikely. I see 3 more wins right now.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I dont care if we are the worst 10-2 team after all the games are played...we are 10-2 and that is all that matters. I highly doubt anyone had that on their bingo card especially with Darnold starting.
Honestly, if we hadnt had to play the Rams on Thursday Night I think we beat them. But no matter you can only play the schedule in front of you.
Maybe the plan was to never play McCarthy, but I think we are definitely better off than we would have been with JJ.
I dont care if we are the worst 10-2 team after all the games are played...we are 10-2 and that is all that matters. I highly doubt anyone had that on their bingo card especially with Darnold starting.
Honestly, if we hadnt had to play the Rams on Thursday Night I think we beat them. But no matter you can only play the schedule in front of you.
I believe teams the week after they face Detroit have 2 wins on the season with a full week of rest. Vikings were in a tough spot that week on short rest.
I dont care if we are the worst 10-2 team after all the games are played...we are 10-2 and that is all that matters. I highly doubt anyone had that on their bingo card especially with Darnold starting.
Honestly, if we hadnt had to play the Rams on Thursday Night I think we beat them. But no matter you can only play the schedule in front of you.
Maybe the plan was to never play McCarthy, but I think we are definitely better off than we would have been with JJ.
I think you are right...it would have been all for the future but tons of growing pains.
Kwesi, KOC, and Flores are cooking.
Mackey keeps doing that "winning with these journeymen starters" stat the past few weeks, which is hilarious because if you take out Darnold, it's only 3-6. Such a strange thing to keep highlighting.
Correct. And remember that Dobbs looked great for a game or two last year and then fell flat. His play for game 1 and 2 after the trade wasn't due to KOC tutelage.Kwesi, KOC, and Flores are cooking.
Mackey keeps doing that "winning with these journeymen starters" stat the past few weeks, which is hilarious because if you take out Darnold, it's only 3-6. Such a strange thing to keep highlighting.
All that said, I don't think many QBs would have been successful last year without JJ, considering the run game was also a disaster.
You expect logic and sound statistical analysis from Phil Mackey? The guy is a hack and always has been!
And I just remembered one of those 3 wins was the "greatest football game ever played", the 3-0 win in Vegas. 🤣
@collegehockeyaddict Agree, 2024 team is much more like the 2017 team than 2022. Both of those teams have/had a pretty good defense…the 2022 defense was leakier than the Somali navy! 🤣
2017 Averages through 11 games
Offense: 24.63 points
Defense: 17
1 Possession wins on the season: 5 of their 13 wins, 2 of them by 8 points.
2022 Averages through 11 games
Offense: 24.90 points
Defense: 17.90
1 Possession wins on the season: 11 of their 13 wins, 2 of them by 8 points.
2024 Averages through 12 games
Offense: 24.75 points
Defense: 18.25
1 Possession wins on the season: 7 of their 10 wins (so far), 2 of them by 8 points.
All three of these teams have similar O and D stats through this point of the season. 2022 played with fire just about every win and 2024 is following a similar theme. 2017 did not, they put teams away.
If this year's team continues this type of style, playing a half of good football or just a quarter or so they will have a very tough time round one of the playoffs against any of these team on the road, Atlanta, Tampa, Seattle or Arizona. They will be coin flip games. They have time to play better and strong down the stretch but right now is almost identical to 2022. Nice shiny record and then get bounced by a mediocre 9-7-1 Giants team (and that wasn't even a road game.)
I do think this team has a better and more complete roster with more potential but they need to put it all together now.
Darnold was throwing absolute Dimes when the Vikings heated up. I don't know if it was the Vikes figuring out the blitz, the Cardinals pulling back with the lead (sounds like they went to more of a base D) or a combo? But he was throwing absolute A++ balls and dropping some into real good coverage.
He is having one of the better seasons the Vikes have ever had at the QB position & as a 27 years old. Amazing that there is no way to bring him back and some kid that has never thrown a ball in the NFL gets the keys to the castle, especially knowing how the young QB has become such a crap shoot in the NFL. Hope this doesn't turn into a Big Papi situation.
I was having this exact conversation watching this with a friend yesterday. Nobody knows if McCarthy will even pan out much less perform better than what fans see right now. Darnold has set a high bar and I don't think it's a fluke. KOC may deserve a lot of credit. If they could find a way, it would be great to have him back.Darnold was throwing absolute Dimes when the Vikings heated up. I don't know if it was the Vikes figuring out the blitz, the Cardinals pulling back with the lead (sounds like they went to more of a base D) or a combo. But he was throwing absolute A+ balls and dropping some into real good coverage.
He is having one of the better seasons the Vikes have ever had at the QB position at 27 years old. Amazing that there is no way to bring him back and some kid that has never thrown a ball in the NFL gets the keys to the castle, especially knowing how the young QB has become such a crap shoot in the NFL. Hope this doesn't turn into a Big Papi situation.
That last drive was weird. For the first time all game--and when they needed it most--the Vikings got into a rhythm and Arizona could do nothing to stop it.
Arizona lost that game because 5 of their six scores were field goals.
I was having this exact conversation watching this with a friend yesterday. Nobody knows if McCarthy will even pan out much less perform better than what fans see right now. Darnold has set a high bar and I don't think it's a fluke. KOC may deserve a lot of credit. If they could find a way, it would be great to have him back.Darnold was throwing absolute Dimes when the Vikings heated up. I don't know if it was the Vikes figuring out the blitz, the Cardinals pulling back with the lead (sounds like they went to more of a base D) or a combo. But he was throwing absolute A+ balls and dropping some into real good coverage.
He is having one of the better seasons the Vikes have ever had at the QB position at 27 years old. Amazing that there is no way to bring him back and some kid that has never thrown a ball in the NFL gets the keys to the castle, especially knowing how the young QB has become such a crap shoot in the NFL. Hope this doesn't turn into a Big Papi situation.
That last drive was weird. For the first time all game--and when they needed it most--the Vikings got into a rhythm and Arizona could do nothing to stop it.
Arizona lost that game because 5 of their six scores were field goals.
all depends on the dollar amount to keep him. If his salary doubles, you lose something elsewhere. QBs on rookie deals are a MASSIVE advantage because of the salary discount but if Darnold wants to come back at a reasonably friendly cap hit, I bet they bring him back
I was having this exact conversation watching this with a friend yesterday. Nobody knows if McCarthy will even pan out much less perform better than what fans see right now. Darnold has set a high bar and I don't think it's a fluke. KOC may deserve a lot of credit. If they could find a way, it would be great to have him back.Darnold was throwing absolute Dimes when the Vikings heated up. I don't know if it was the Vikes figuring out the blitz, the Cardinals pulling back with the lead (sounds like they went to more of a base D) or a combo. But he was throwing absolute A+ balls and dropping some into real good coverage.
He is having one of the better seasons the Vikes have ever had at the QB position at 27 years old. Amazing that there is no way to bring him back and some kid that has never thrown a ball in the NFL gets the keys to the castle, especially knowing how the young QB has become such a crap shoot in the NFL. Hope this doesn't turn into a Big Papi situation.
That last drive was weird. For the first time all game--and when they needed it most--the Vikings got into a rhythm and Arizona could do nothing to stop it.
Arizona lost that game because 5 of their six scores were field goals.
all depends on the dollar amount to keep him. If his salary doubles, you lose something elsewhere. QBs on rookie deals are a MASSIVE advantage because of the salary discount but if Darnold wants to come back at a reasonably friendly cap hit, I bet they bring him back
This isn't a smart a$$ response, really wondering if there is a team excelling right now and they still have their QB on the rookie deal?
I definitely agree there is a fine line between what you pay your QB and not mortgaging the rest of the roster. But it is also arguably the most important position in all of sports, you need a fairly high level of play if you want to win and win year in and out.
Before this season Darnold in 64 games, 63 TDs, 56 INTs
This season in 12 games, 23 TDs, 10 INTs
So why the improvement? KOC? Better offensive weapons/team? Darnold learning from past struggles? Probably all of the above.
Key question moving forward is he going to play this well such that you want to give him a raise for multiple years (which is likely what it is going to take to resign sign him)?
As fans it is normal for us to be creatures of the moment but it is logical for the Vikings to want to play McCarthy quite a bite over the next two seasons so they can decide if want to pick up his 5th year option (which is the case for all 1st round draft picks). Picking up the 5th year option has to be decided during the off season between the 3rd and 4th years.
Yes McCarthy will likely have some growing pain the first time he plays but with the weapons we have and KOC to help him along he likely will do alright plus he likely has more upside than Darnold long term.
Just because Darnold has played well this season it doesn't mean he would play this well if brought back (he is having a career year). Three weeks ago he threw three picks against the Jags.
Viking fans have been begging for a franchise QB for decades and order to get one you have to be willing to go through the growing pains.
Viking fans have been begging for a franchise QB for decades and order to get one you have to be willing to go through the growing pains.
This is a little ironic because Darnold is playing like a legit franchise QB right now, was a top pick and has gone through personal growing pains in awful organizations. He is also at the age where if a QB is good they truly start to excel. And he plays for the Vikings right now.
Also, his deal would reflect what he is to this point. He isn't getting a deal based on 5 years of solid starter play and already winning a SB.
Vikings fans are all to quite familiar with the "growing pains" followed by, "crap it didn't work out again." Both Culpepper and Ponder were drafted around the 10 pick.
I would much rather have the inconvenience of having both on the roster & navigating vs just JJ & the inconvenience and set back if he isn't the guy.
Viking fans have been begging for a franchise QB for decades and order to get one you have to be willing to go through the growing pains.
This is true, but there are myriad cases of high-draft quarterbacks who get their chance and never make it. Many are complete busts. Teams might think they have the franchise QB in the fold but don't know until they play consistently. Then you have the in-betweeners like Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson who are serviceable but nowhere near what they had hoped for.
It probably gets down to the Vikings' Super Bowl projection. If they think it's a 2-3 year window then Darnold could be a better bet.
Does McCarthy's injury factor into this as a future unknown?
@team2tank previously to all the injuries, San Fran, it’s when Dallas was extremely good, Denver, Washington. It helps you if they can outplay their contract but this applies to any level of qb
Four months ago (even three weeks ago) Darnold was looked at as a bum now he a franchise QB who is irreplaceable?
He is some where in between.
I have no problem with the Vikings bringing Darnold back but will not be surprised if he gets a multi year deal with a raise from anther team.
Having McCarthy and Daniel Jones (there are some similarities to Darnold) would be a good option for next season. Jones will be a free agent at the end of this season. If Darnold signs with another team there is a good chance the Viking sign Jones.
SF is an interesting one. But I will give it to you even if on a technicality.
When was Dallas extremely good on a rookie QB contract? And what was the payoff?
Denver and Washington are hanging on for a playoff spot and certainly not excelling. Maybe they will over the next 2-3 years that is to been determined.
I'm interested to know what the best current or recent example is of a team excelling in their rookie QB years. If it is Dallas, Denver, or Washington that only strengthens my position that the Vikes should keep Darnold and figure it out from there.
@collegehockeyaddict Where was it said that he is irreplaceable or even hinted?
If JJ is so good and ready to take over a franchise there should be no problem competing with Darnold. Or if he needs a true year of practicing and learning which was taken from him this season. And if Darnold goes out and puts back to back solid seasons together you now have that much more knowledge to make a sound decision.
@team2tank why would SF be on a technicality? They’ve made multiple super bowls on Purdys rookie deal? You’re not looking at rookie year, it’s years 3-4. Baltimore on Jackson’s rookie deal is another one. The chiefs won the Super Bowl on Mahomes rookie deal (and lost another). Your team around your qb can be infinitely better while you’re on the rookie deal. Once you get past that time you need a Mahomes, Brady, etc to make the contract worth it or a rookie who can play like an upper middle tier guy or a journeyman who can put it together. Lots of different ways to do it but that’s why the ownership is pushing on rookies to play league wide so you can spend elsewhere and go for it in years 3-4 of the rookie deal
edit: not saying I agree with or disagree with the strategy. Lots of ways to approach team structure but there’s two windows prime windows. One at tail end of rookie deal with rookie playing like veteran beyond his contract and then your superstar qb carrying his team like only superstar qbs. It’s tough to find that middle ground now and without a top 5 or so qb and a lot easier when you get a random fluke run with the journeyman guy versus putting a whole season together with them
@upnorthkid SF has made one Super Bowl last year, not multiple. Technicality in that Purdy was never drafted with the strategy to play him on his rookie deal out of the gate and build a team around that. SF was already built, Jimmy G was already the starter, Purdy was a 7th round pick to back up Jimmy G. Purdy swept in after Jimmy G (having a very good year) went down and took advantage in 2022. But it is working to their advantage so it counts as an example.
Lamar Jackson is a good example.
Mahomes is a good example. And the absolute best case scenario.
There is a few success stories and I bet if we go back to when Mahomes and Jackson came into the league there are 10-15 starting QBs that have already been given up on or clearly aren't it and their teams have no success track record.
2017 - 2023, first round draft picks.
14 complete busts or "No's" as it didn't work out in any way a team would intend it to.
1 absolute slam dunk success - Mahomes
4 Success Situations
5 Mixed results, teams have possibly found their guy but little to no team success. So they didn't take advantage of the rookie window.
I'll take Darnold and JJ and figure out the rest later.
Trubisky, No
Mahomes, 100% Success
Deshaun Watson, mixed results, horrible in his 4th year.
Mayfield/Browns, No
Sam Darnold, No
Josh Allen, Success
Josh Rosen, 100% bust
Lamar Jackson, Success
Kyler Murray, Mixed Results, overall nothing to show.
Daniel Jones, No
Dwayne Haskins, Bust
Joe Burrow - Success
Tua - Mixed
Herbert, Mixed, they found their guy but not much team success first 4 years
Jordan Love - Trending success
Lawrence - No
Zach Wilson - Bust
Trey Lance - Bust
Justin Fields - Bust
Mac Jones - Bust
Kenny Picket - Bust
Bryce Young, No, could be a bust
CJ Stroud, Trending Success but to early.
Anthony Richardson, No, that they are accomplishing anything significant on his rookie deal. Could even be a bust.
@team2tank yeah I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. And I think much of what you are is what Tom Brady has been alluding to in hurting a lot of the young talent in the league as they get thrown aside really quickly after being thrown to the wolves too early on bad teams which guys like Mayfield, Mayfield, Goff are now showing was wrong. Was more I think GMs viewed at as a get rich quick move when you see Jackson and Mahomes and Burrow go to the next level so quickly but those guys are super rare. This last years class is interesting in that many are looking really good but most are on just awful teams (Maye) or have bad coaches (Williams) that are hurting them and that can completely destroy some guys. I have always liked the sit for 1-2 years approach given you’re trying to capitalize in years 3-4 on their rookie deals but that shortens that “window” but feel like it gives you a better shot knowing what you really have before contract #2. Josh Allen was almost one being debated on giving up on after his first 2 years before it clicked. Hardest position in football to learn and to me I’d rather JJ is really ready when you’re putting him back there.
i think the rookie deal thing has also led to many many more “reaches” at the qb position. So many guys taken have been clearly not 1st Round talents but everyone wants their superstar qb. Guys like Trubisky, Jones, Pickett etc were so far from being “it” but teams are so willing to chance it now even though you’re way better off with a serviceable guy and having all pro type guys littered across your team and adapting your philosophy to that qb (like Hurts in Philly for example where they went to the SB in the last year of his rookie deal).
The fact that 1st round draft picks have a 5th year option that teams have to decide after year 3 if they are going to pick up or not is a key reason why teams want to play QBs early. If you sit him for 2-3 years you have to make this decision before he has played much if at all.
I think the plan for McCarthy was sit year 1, play year 2, play year 3 and see how much has improved in his 2nd year of playing.
Darnold was throwing absolute Dimes when the Vikings heated up. I don't know if it was the Vikes figuring out the blitz, the Cardinals pulling back with the lead (sounds like they went to more of a base D) or a combo? But he was throwing absolute A++ balls and dropping some into real good coverage.
He is having one of the better seasons the Vikes have ever had at the QB position & as a 27 years old. Amazing that there is no way to bring him back and some kid that has never thrown a ball in the NFL gets the keys to the castle, especially knowing how the young QB has become such a crap shoot in the NFL. Hope this doesn't turn into a Big Papi situation.
This is really well stated. It is going to be an interesting offseason. I don’t think the Vikings can realistically sign Darnold to a 30 or 40 million dollar contract. As talked about above, the potential of having a QB playing well (McCarthy) on a rookie contract is too important to pass up.
However, it seems crazy to let Darnold walk considering how clutch he has been at the end of games. And how solid he has been when looking at the season as a whole.
Of course this is all thrown out the window if Darnold leads us to the NFC Championship game or Super Bowl.
I am happy I’m not the one making the decisions.
Realistic me:
Someone is gonna offer Darnold way too much money for Vikes to match. If he succeeds? Who knows? But, he's getting PAID next season (hence the Danny Jones signing).
Optimistic me (as a local):
Sam likes it here, he'll sign for less, and if it's a backup role, so be it, let's get a ring.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
The Cardinals definitely did not stop blitzing...the difference was we called plays that took advantage of their aggressiveness. They also played more tempo because they had less negative plays.
I don't think most are opposed to bringing him back and he has earned a raise but the team needs to be smart about it. I remember these same discussions about Case Keenum...if Darnold is willing to take a rather friendly deal and understands the situation with JJ then sign him up! If he wants to cash in and be handed the keys to the franchise then it's another story.
Truth is, if he is smart, he takes a solid multi-year deal from the Vikes and let's the chips fall where they may. The grass may look greener but he likely won't find a better situation in the off-season on a team that is as talented as us willing to give him the reins. Plus JJ won't be ready to start fully next year most likely so he should get plenty of snaps and can add to his comeback player mythology! It's not like he can't cash in after next year.
There is a LOT of wiggle room with Sam. He has the reputation (before this year) of being a bust. He has this year of his potential (he's only 27, so a decade awaits, theoretically). Finding that balance is the key to the whole situation. And I dare say, with D Jones at 100K (obv more if he is on the main squad) does give MN some leverage.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
There is a LOT of wiggle room with Sam. He has the reputation (before this year) of being a bust. He has this year of his potential (he's only 27, so a decade awaits, theoretically). Finding that balance is the key to the whole situation. And I dare say, with D Jones at 100K (obv more if he is on the main squad) does give MN some leverage.
i don't think having Jones really gives MN any leverage. Sam's agent is going to name his number and it's more going to be based on if they see anywhere near that on the market. Vikes leverage is we play a QB friendly system, we give you a 1 year pay raise (maybe say 20-25mil/1yr type deal) as your repeat prove it and you can go out next year, still in your prime and sign a mega deal either with us or with someone else as he's still 27 (younger than Josh Allen). I don't think there will be a ton of love for him in the 30+ range right now based off one season of production in a QB friendly system (teams will cite cousins looking terrible now).
There is a LOT of wiggle room with Sam. He has the reputation (before this year) of being a bust. He has this year of his potential (he's only 27, so a decade awaits, theoretically). Finding that balance is the key to the whole situation. And I dare say, with D Jones at 100K (obv more if he is on the main squad) does give MN some leverage.
i don't think having Jones really gives MN any leverage. Sam's agent is going to name his number and it's more going to be based on if they see anywhere near that on the market. Vikes leverage is we play a QB friendly system, we give you a 1 year pay raise (maybe say 20-25mil/1yr type deal) as your repeat prove it and you can go out next year, still in your prime and sign a mega deal either with us or with someone else as he's still 27 (younger than Josh Allen). I don't think there will be a ton of love for him in the 30+ range right now based off one season of production in a QB friendly system (teams will cite cousins looking terrible now).
The Vikings absolutely have leverage because they have a replacement for him at a much cheaper price. (2 actually since JJ hasnt played yet) If they can do this with Darnold they can do it with Jones as well. They have their QB of the future (in theory) and they have another guy who wants to have a shot here so (short of Darnold taking them to the SB) Darnold really has no leverage. If he asks for money they don't think he is worth they can let him him walk. The teams most likely to pay him big money on a longish term deal are desperate teams in bad spots. He knows it and the team knows it. One very good/great year will not rehab a rep that much with the better teams out there. Sure a Jacksonville or Vegas may come calling with a huge offer and if that is what he wants good for him but I doubt many Vikings fans are going to burn down US Bank Stadium over Darnold if they don't match it. And the chances of him regressing back to what he was on the Jets is very high when he goes to teams with mediocre talent and coaches who dont have a clue how to use him.
Look if someone wants to give him $25-35 million good for him and I have zero ill will if he takes it. The Vikings would be fools though to pay that much for him when they have no plans to make him the starter 2 years from now.
@handyman the QBs making 20 million a year or less and starting are…
Qbs on rookie deals, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, and Gardner Minshew. 20 million isn’t a huge deal anymore and would place him 20th amongst starters. Hence why I said I could vikes doing a 1yr/20mil deal.
Jones isn’t on contract here next year as of now. You have no idea what his market value will be either at this point (I would assume it’ll be at Darnolds level now).
@handyman The Vikes didn't sign Jones for leverage nor does it really create any. They signed him because they need options for next year as it is unsure how it will shake out. And while likely Jones would be back it is not 100% as he is a free agent as well.
It isn't leverage as much as it is insurance. The Vikes will either have an appetite for a certain amount with Darnold or they won't & it will have to be worth it for Darnold vs what he could maximize in free agency. The Jones signing in no way shape or form is going to drive this.
The appeal for the Vikings is bringing back a guy that has played very well this year for a second season in the same system, same players, ect. with a coach in his 4th year as HC & play caller, zero getting up to speed, zero KOC learning how to operate his O around and make it go around the most important piece a QB. You get to hit the ground running and keep evolving with a 28 year old QB. About 10 teams will go into next season feeling really good about their QB situation.
Jones is a different player, would have to get up to speed, the offense would have to be tailored around his skill set. It could work great or it could work poorly there are no guarantees.
@upnorthkid Darnold is getting more than a year if a deal is worked out with the Vikes. I agree on the price point 20-30 range would be the market the Vikes would want to be in. They would want to create a deal that can be moved, if/when that time comes.
@handyman the QBs making 20 million a year or less and starting are…
Qbs on rookie deals, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, and Gardner Minshew. 20 million isn’t a huge deal anymore and would place him 20th amongst starters. Hence why I said I could vikes doing a 1yr/20mil deal.
Jones isn’t on contract here next year as of now. You have no idea what his market value will be either at this point (I would assume it’ll be at Darnolds level now).
Why would Darnold sign a 1 year 20 million dollar deal? He will get way more than that.
I am not so sure that he will based off of 1 solid season (which is not yet even complete) vs. a history of bad results.
@handyman the QBs making 20 million a year or less and starting are…
Qbs on rookie deals, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, and Gardner Minshew. 20 million isn’t a huge deal anymore and would place him 20th amongst starters. Hence why I said I could vikes doing a 1yr/20mil deal.
Jones isn’t on contract here next year as of now. You have no idea what his market value will be either at this point (I would assume it’ll be at Darnolds level now).
Why would Darnold sign a 1 year 20 million dollar deal? He will get way more than that.
as slapshot said. I also think he will be somewhere in middle but not large deals and he may view it as another year in a QB friendly system that I like shows off my skills and i sign a large deal for more years with my next deal (kind of like Kirk continually did throughout his career). Would be another stopgap option for him short term and so he may go for the bigger guarantee, but there's a reason so many QBs want to end up in MN right now
@handyman the QBs making 20 million a year or less and starting are…
Qbs on rookie deals, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, and Gardner Minshew. 20 million isn’t a huge deal anymore and would place him 20th amongst starters. Hence why I said I could vikes doing a 1yr/20mil deal.
Jones isn’t on contract here next year as of now. You have no idea what his market value will be either at this point (I would assume it’ll be at Darnolds level now).
Jones has the same market value next year Darnold had this year. Maybe a bit more because he went to the playoffs once but he proved he was worthless without Barkley in his backfield. He needs a lot of rehab to get $20 million from a team not named the Raiders.
And Darnold will not be starting here (most likely) when JJ is ready to go.
@handyman The Vikes didn't sign Jones for leverage nor does it really create any. They signed him because they need options for next year as it is unsure how it will shake out. And while likely Jones would be back it is not 100% as he is a free agent as well.
It isn't leverage as much as it is insurance. The Vikes will either have an appetite for a certain amount with Darnold or they won't & it will have to be worth it for Darnold vs what he could maximize in free agency. The Jones signing in no way shape or form is going to drive this.
The appeal for the Vikings is bringing back a guy that has played very well this year for a second season in the same system, same players, ect. with a coach in his 4th year as HC & play caller, zero getting up to speed, zero KOC learning how to operate his O around and make it go around the most important piece a QB. You get to hit the ground running and keep evolving with a 28 year old QB. About 10 teams will go into next season feeling really good about their QB situation.
Jones is a different player, would have to get up to speed, the offense would have to be tailored around his skill set. It could work great or it could work poorly there are no guarantees.
You misunderstand what I am saying. I am not saying they brought in Jones for leverage, I am saying they can get him cheaper than Darnold (if we are to believe he has the market some seem to assume) which is why Sam has no leverage. I agree it is a total insurance move that makes Sam more expendable than he probably thinks he should be. If Sam holds out for a big contract the Vikings are not going to give it to him and he has no way to really make them hence no leverage. (again unless they make a historic playoff run) The Vikings would be idiots to give him a massive amount of money based on one single year we have no clue he can replicate. His history tells us it is more likely he will stink next year than put up big numbers. I would rather roll with him and find out but I would not want the team to pay him like a starter because he wont be long term unless JJ sucks. You dont draft a guy 10th and give up on him before he has a chance to even play and you would almost have to do that if you give Sam the money being discussed.
Would I prefer him at say $20 million over Jones at $10 million...yes for the reasons you mention. (plus I never liked Jones) Do I think that is how this is going to play out...probably not. If Sam is hellbent on cashing in this offseason he needs to be prepared to be moving on and likely to a team that is need of a serious rebuild. I would think that he would be averse to such things after being stuck with the Jets and them damned near killing his career but I don't know him well enough to say that. I think Jones will stick around next year if Sam leaves but I could definitely be wrong about that...although his wanting to no longer be on the Giants and go to a team in a better position tells me he would take the rehab assignment if offered.
To me the Vikings are in about as good a position as they can be. The question is whether Darnold thinks he can be this good on another team.
@handyman the QBs making 20 million a year or less and starting are…
Qbs on rookie deals, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, and Gardner Minshew. 20 million isn’t a huge deal anymore and would place him 20th amongst starters. Hence why I said I could vikes doing a 1yr/20mil deal.
Jones isn’t on contract here next year as of now. You have no idea what his market value will be either at this point (I would assume it’ll be at Darnolds level now).
Why would Darnold sign a 1 year 20 million dollar deal? He will get way more than that.
The reasoning would be, in theory, that if he proves this year is not a fluke he then cashes in after the season as an unrestricted free agent. This year, teams will still question whether he actually was this good or if the team masked his issues or it was just him having a fluke year. I mean Nick Foles pretty much has the same numbers as Sam and look what happened when he cashed in. (after the Eagles picked up his option for $20 million after winning the SB) He signed with Jacksonville for 4 years $88 million and he was older.
He would be betting on himself...and it would be risky. If he doesnt get hurt and has a great year he will get a massive deal, if it doesn't...well yeah.
I highly doubt any agent would tell him to do that, but if it works he would have 15-20 teams falling all over themselves to give him $40-50 million a year for 4-5 years...again theoretically.
Sam is in a good position either way, if he takes a good deal this year he gets paid and if he waits he likely gets even more if he plays competently. To me the question is what teams does he want to go to and are they willing to pay him what he wants. If so I am very happy for him!
If the Vikings flame out early in the playoffs, it will be "Sam who?" 😆
Will the Vikings have the cap space to bring Darnold back without having to lose quality players?
I personally wouldn't have much interest in bringing him back at all, but if you can do it and still go out and improve the other holes in the roster, then you atleast have to look into it
I would prefer to spend it all on the other positions and let JJ be QB1. I just don’t see Darnold being a savior if JJ isn’t good of gets hurt. Bring in bigger FA and go all in with JJ. Super Bowl or bust….homeboy.Will the Vikings have the cap space to bring Darnold back without having to lose quality players?
I personally wouldn't have much interest in bringing him back at all, but if you can do it and still go out and improve the other holes in the roster, then you atleast have to look into it