This stoppage more than the many others has the vibe of mutually assured destruction. There are so many more entertainment options and we seem multiple generations past baseball’s prime. We’ll see what happens in the coming weeks.
Damn… Summer will just feel hollow without baseball.
Really hope it doesn’t come to that, but seems likely a significant portion of the season will be culled.
On the subject of MLB improvements.. with a 162 game season there is no reason not to have a 2 game home and away series with every American/National league team. MLB should be invested in getting players like Tatis and Trout in every MLB stadium every year.
Selfishly I want this because growing up idolising players like Pujols, and Helton in the NL. it seemed like they never came here. I would love the option to see some of the national league talent play here every year.
'29, '40, '74, '76, '79, '02, & '03
GPL's Resident Cabin Enthusiast & Cadets Hockey Fan
MLB will suffer long lasting consequences from this if it extends I think. People will find other things to do. As it is I only attend 1-3 games a year and barely channel surf through those on TV. There's a lot of options to replace baseball with including hockey through June, soccer, and football starting in August.
What’s wrong with a shift, and why do they need larger bases?
https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1500613355270291457?s=20&t=xOSlryurJw11Cc2bjGCySAbr >
Gross.
How long until baseball is unrecognizable as baseball! 
What’s wrong with a shift, and why do they need larger bases?
Agreed. Now we’re defining where players can play D?
And I don’t get the bases thing either.
I'm guessing they think bigger bases will encourage more aggressiveness on the basepaths as players would have a better chance to avoid a tag and still find the bag
What’s wrong with a shift, and why do they need larger bases?
They say larger bases reduce collisions and injuries.
Yeah the bases thing is about reducing injuries so no reason not to do that. Trying to get rid of the shift is just stupid. How do you even lay that out? Put lines on the field? What about outfielders? Does it only apply to infielders? You should be able to position your defense however you want. That would be like making teams bat their DH in the 4 hole or something. They can’t make the DH rules the same for both leagues but they can do that?
FWIW they are making a universal DH
Yeah the bases thing is about reducing injuries so no reason not to do that. Trying to get rid of the shift is just stupid. How do you even lay that out? Put lines on the field? What about outfielders? Does it only apply to infielders? You should be able to position your defense however you want. That would be like making teams bat their DH in the 4 hole or something. They can’t make the DH rules the same for both leagues but they can do that?
When I played softball they had a rule about positioning that said my heels being on the outfield grass was against the rules. I don't think it would take much more to do additional positional rules
"Union also rejected Robo umps for ‘22/‘23."
Hard to win an argument with a Robo.
I want to see a Robo ump throw out a manager/player for arguing. 
The shift thing makes me puke. You are professionals. Hit through the shift. I played beer-league softball for YEARS, opp-field hitter, I actually had the shift put against me quite a bit. I had to learn how to hit through that, and I'm a schlub! JFC.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Yes, they are professionals, and they got to the Major leagues for the way they hit. The players that may have been able to slap the ball around are less likely to get there (unless they are really good at it—Sir Rodney or Ichiro, for instance). This isn’t slow pitch beer league. Players excelled at the game by concentrating on hitting the best pitchers in the world a certain way. I don’t think it’s that easy to change. Some might be able to, but it’s not just as easy as saying, OK, now I’ll hit to all fields…
It's not easy, no. BUT, they are professionals. They SHOULD have the skill set to adapt. Remember the West Coast Offense in the NFL? Hello, Tampa 2. Adapt. Don't ban creativity.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I know this isn't exactly a hot take, but baseball is in serious trouble already, and this lockout might be the dagger to the sport.
My son is playing 13U travel baseball this year. I don't think he or any of his teammates could name 5 major league players if their lives depended on it. None of them watch baseball. This is what MLB is already up against.
I know this isn't exactly a hot take, but baseball is in serious trouble already, and this lockout might be the dagger to the sport.
My son is playing 13U travel baseball this year. I don't think he or any of his teammates could name 5 major league players if their lives depended on it. None of them watch baseball. This is what MLB is already up against.
And yet they keep signing bigger tv contracts.
The shift thing makes me puke. You are professionals. Hit through the shift. I played beer-league softball for YEARS, opp-field hitter, I actually had the shift put against me quite a bit. I had to learn how to hit through that, and I'm a schlub! JFC.
I should preface this by saying I think banning the shift is dumb. I understand why players want it banned, but I think it's dumb. The only way they can make it somewhat salvageable for me is to say "You have to have 2 infielders on each side of 2nd base but they can stand wherever they want aside from that" basically. If the second baseman wants to play 20 feet into the outfield grass, so be it. If the shortstop wants to be 2 inches away from second base on the pitch, good for him.
That said, it's a hell of a lot easier to hit through the shift in softball than it is against 95mph fastballs and 87mph sliders etc. As I'm sure you know. 
While I mostly agree with the sentiment of "just hit the other way" (I was always the "hit the ball where it's pitched" hitter/coach), it's a hell of a lot easier said than done, especially in the era where pitching development is so far ahead of hitting. Guys in today's game have a hard enough time making contact with some of the pitches being developed right now, they aren't going to be able to aim it.
The problem with the "just hit through the shift" mentality is there is so much data available on hitters tendencies that for some players they shift the infield more to the pull side and the outfield to the push side (or vice versa). I'd imagine if Joe Mauer were still playing today you'd see that shift quite a bit (we saw it to an extent even near the end of his playing days). His ground ball tendencies were overwhelmingly pull side, or just to the shortstop side of second base, while the majority of the balls he hit in the air went to left center/left. Very rarely did he truly turn on one, hit it hard, and put it down the right field line.
Out of curiosity I pulled up his spray charts from 2012-2018. In that 6 year stretch, he had a grand total of 6 balls qualified as a line drive that hit "on the line" (being generous with the extension of the line to include 2 extra, there were only 4 that were truly "on the line" on the graph) on the pull side. He had triple and then some of that number on the opposite field line. However, a gigantic majority of his ground balls went from shortstop over to first base. So defenses would likely shift third base to play shortstop hole, shortstop basically just on the third base side of second base, and second base covering a bit closer to 1B. I used Mauer because he was one of the best "use the whole field" hitters in recent memory.
I remember many years ago Keith Hernandez, as a left handed first baseman, would stand with his left foot in foul territory when holding on a runner so he could drop the tag easily on first base. MLB either made a rule or started enforcing an existing rule saying both feet needed to be in fair territory so there is some precedent for telling fielders where they can and can't line up.
I think the shift hurts the game so I would be OK with a rule allowing only 2 infielders on the right side of 2nd base.
Why do players hate the shift? They don’t like the defense playing to a weakness? Too bad. Next I suppose we need to draw boxes on the field so the defense stays in them. Stop being big whiny greedy babies and just play the game. It’s an f’in game. It’s supposed to be fun.
I feel the fun is being sucked out of sports for so many reasons.
But part of the fun of baseball for a lot of fans is seeing singles resulting in the excitement of base runners going first to third or a fast batter trying to stretch a single into a double. A lot of people myself included believe the game has become too much strikeout/walk/home run. The reason singles are down and the use of base running isn't just the shifts but it is a key part.
Football has rules about were players can line up (7 players on line of scrimmage, only one guy in motion at a time otherwise everybody has to reset, no forward motion before the ball is snapped).
Shifts have totally changed baseball and a lot people believe the game has become less exciting because of it. We all are certainly going to have differences of opinions but the main reason to remove shifts isn't to take the fun out of baseball it is to put fun back in the game like it used to be.
My prediction is there will be no lines on the field telling where fielders can stand just a general rule that you have to have at least two infielders on each side of second base. If you want to have your short shot stand just to the left of second base so be it.
With how good pitchers have become coupled with shifts teams/batters have come to the realization (through the use of metrics) that currently the best way to score runs is to go for walks and home runs. A game of just strikeouts/walks/home runs isn't the same game.
The return on investment of trying to put the ball in play isn't there currently. Removing shifts changes the dynamic by increasing the return on investment of putting the ball in play (closer to what it use to be).
As Beauner point out with how good pitchers have gotten it is hard enough trying to hit it where the pitcher throws it (inside vs. outside) so trying to hit the other way while it sounds great in theory isn't as practical as it might seem.
Batters are now taking more of a swing hard in case you hit it approach aka don't just try to put the ball in play go for home runs since putting the ball in play has a low return on investment.
Why do players hate the shift? They don’t like the defense playing to a weakness? Too bad. Next I suppose we need to draw boxes on the field so the defense stays in them. Stop being big whiny greedy babies and just play the game. It’s an f’in game. It’s supposed to be fun.
I feel the fun is being sucked out of sports for so many reasons.
We could go back to the 1870’s rule where the batter could ask for the pitch in a certain location.
Why do players hate the shift? They don’t like the defense playing to a weakness? Too bad. Next I suppose we need to draw boxes on the field so the defense stays in them. Stop being big whiny greedy babies and just play the game. It’s an f’in game. It’s supposed to be fun.
I feel the fun is being sucked out of sports for so many reasons.
We could go back to the 1870’s rule where the batter could ask for the pitch in a certain location.
Shhhh. Don’t give them any ideas!
We could just put the ball on a tee for batters. This would also speed up the game since no need for warm up pitches before the start of each half inning and no need to stop the game to change pitchers. All the problems are now solved.
Plus owners would love this since now they don't have to pay for pitchers. Although this would cut the number of jobs in half since with new baseball half the team is pitchers. The union is going to hate this idea and we already have owner/union disagreement problems. Ok never mind this is a bad idea. :biggrin2:
We could just put the ball on a tee for batters. This would also speed up the game since no need for warm up pitches before the start of each half inning and no need to stop the game to change pitchers. All the problems are now solved.
Plus owners would love this since now they don't have to pay for pitchers. Although this would cut the number of jobs in half since with new baseball half the team is pitchers. The union is going to hate this idea and we already have owner/union disagreement problems. Ok never mind this is a bad idea. :biggrin2:
How about using the same ball until it leaves the stadium? They could save soooooo much money! (Yea I know they did that in 1870 too. )
We could just put the ball on a tee for batters. This would also speed up the game since no need for warm up pitches before the start of each half inning and no need to stop the game to change pitchers. All the problems are now solved.
Plus owners would love this since now they don't have to pay for pitchers. Although this would cut the number of jobs in half since with new baseball half the team is pitchers. The union is going to hate this idea and we already have owner/union disagreement problems. Ok never mind this is a bad idea. :biggrin2:
How about using the same ball until it leaves the stadium? They could save soooooo much money! (Yea I know they did that in 1870 too. )
Twins owner Calvin Griffin was at the for front of the pine tar rule (where it can be on the bat). He hated that pine tar resulted in umpires taking base balls out of play resulting in him spending more money on baseballs. Twins owners have a legacy of trying to find different ways to save money.
The George Brett pine tar incident may never have happened if not for Calvin.
Two infielders on each side of 2nd base? I'm cool with that. The "stacked" infield is what I have an issue with.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
I like those big bases. Will encourage hitters to put the ball in play instead of the homer/ strikeout we have now. We'll also see more hit and run and base stealing.
Hit it the other way.
Cecil Fielder could swipe 60 bags a year.
[media] https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/1501701831147372546 [/media]
I actually give a @#$* about the Twins
Looking down from my High Horse
Morality Police
I would argue that the trend toward home runs at the expense of strikeouts started a while before defensive shifts became prevalent. Also, eliminating spider tack should help players be able to hit away from the shift at least a little bit
I've been saying for years MLB should reduce their schedule to 150 games thereby allowing the season to end 2 weeks sooner were it started at the same time. Unfortunately this particular reduction won't lead to that.
I've been saying for years MLB should reduce their schedule to 150 games thereby allowing the season to end 2 weeks sooner were it started at the same time. Unfortunately this particular reduction won't lead to that.
If you expand the playoffs, def reduce the reg season. I mean, really.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
No. More. Playoffs. I already think there’s too much.
[media] https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1502015630966415361 [/media]
I actually give a @#$* about the Twins
Looking down from my High Horse
Morality Police
I've been saying for years MLB should reduce their schedule to 150 games thereby allowing the season to end 2 weeks sooner were it started at the same time. Unfortunately this particular reduction won't lead to that.
If you expand the playoffs, def reduce the reg season. I mean, really.
They act like they’re not restricted by the weather at outdoor stadiums. Sub 40 temps for the World Series is stupid. I’m fine with 12 teams making the playoffs but not single elimination games. At least do best of 3. But the gresdy owners gotta have all those early season games with 2K people there cause they still get STH and TV money. It’s all about greed.
The MLB lockout lasted longer than Brady's "retirement." 
Didn't know where to put this, the NFL or MLB thread.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Happy Randy Johnson The Ultimate Anti-Tweeter Day.
https://twitter.com/BSmile/status/1507013216924160006?s=20&t=HBZyVdcrGoWTHkVvHR3nxg
“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
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Ken Griffey Jr is the 6th highest paid player on the Reds payroll.
When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.
Ken Griffey Jr is the 6th highest paid player on the Reds payroll.
Where does Bobby Bonilla fit with the Pirates?