Youth Hockey

Huh? Some one from ND needs to translate this for me. While I worked in Belcourt and lived in Rolette I never became fluent in NoDakese.

Shouldn't be hard to find a translator from all the the River Valley farmers going to Ottertail, the DL area lakes, or even Cass Co. On the weekends

Lighten up. This site isn't the SS site.

Huh is right. I am lightened up. Apparently you don’t read any of my other posts around here.

Couple auto-correct issues, sue me.

I am being bombarded this year with emails from several different summer leagues, and now fall leagues about not enough officials; we need people to "step up and work", "help the kids out", "work your fair share of games", etc. etc. That apparently wasn't working so now they have now turned to shaming us to try and get people to work "Stop collecting unemployment and get out and skate." Many have stopped including what they are paying in the emails hoping to get people to commit before disclosing it, because some are embarrassingly low.

First off, as an official I have only once ever been an employee - and that is when I worked for the Central Hockey League and they also provided housing, insurance, travel stipends, and some other things. Youth, High School, Junior, and College (and even some Pro leagues) we are all independent contractors. So we cannot collect unemployment on officiating income, in fact you usually have to claim officiating income even if they get laid off from their regular job. So nobody is sitting at home collecting unemployment checks based off prior year's officiating income.

Secondly. How about you pay me more than $40/game? This is how capitalism works. Enough people have decided that it is no longer worth doing that job for the amount of money you are willing to pay. People pi$$ and moan about officials constantly, and then throw a huge fit anytime there is an increase in officials game fees or anything like that. So do you actually want officials? Or do you just want to get high school/college kids who need to make a few bucks working the games? Are you willing to deal with the fallout from the choice? There is a AAA League right now trying to get officials to work games as a single official for 1:15 Bantam games for $45. Good luck with that, let me know how it turns out. There are 3 high schools I work games for in the winter that provide a gatorade and snickers bar for each official every game. That little gesture costs them what, $5 out of pocket? but goes such a long way! [mention]SkiUMahLaw[/mention] 's HS being one of them. (That school also happens to pay on the spot, and not make me fill out a Pay Voucher, W2, District Non-Employee form at each game, and then send 2 more emails in order to get paid, only to get the wrong amount and have to email again).

Third. 90%+ of Spring/Summer/Fall hockey is un-sanctioned, or pseudo-sanctioned at best. There is zero repercussions or discipline when it comes to player behavior and most of them have figured that out. So many players act out because they know they can get away with it and only face minimal consequences at worst. When I used to officiate that hockey, that was the only time I ever had to call a butt-end, and had way more spearing penalties than ever in winter, sanctioned hockey. Dealing with that nonsense on a regular basis is not fun for anyone. NO thanks. Hard pass.

Fourth. Many officials like an offseason too. When I worked spring/summer/fall hockey I was already burned out and angry before the regular season started. Plus I want to play golf, go up north, etc. during the summer. I don't want to be stuck in an arena all summer, working games for $30 a pop. Enough guys put in their time by working for free (or donating game fees) during "Stick it to Cancer" tournaments, working tryout scrimmages for their local association for $10 or even free sometimes. You aren't going to get the same treatment as a AAA Hockey league charging parents through the nose.

As for the argument - "$45 for a 1:15 game? That's $36/Hr That's more than I make at my job!!" By all means; go ahead and referee fulltime and let me know how you make out in the end. Who here heard the one about all the officials who work games because "the money is so good"? Yeah, nobody. Of course almost nobody would do it if we weren't paid, and there are always a few doing it because they need the money, but nobody is doing it because it pays so well.

So next time your local referee association approaches the district and are asking for a $1 or $2 per game increase per official. Please think twice before getting in a tizzy and telling them to pound sand. And shaming people because you aren't willing to increase from what you paid officials in 2010 to work games is really the wrong way to go about it.

I will get off my soap box now.

We really do appreciate the work you do (and not just give lip service on social media!).

Not that you are part of this problem, but officials association leadership can help the issue-- they need to modernize and recruit differently than they have in the past, and give meaningful opportunities to young officials. I've worked with some promising young officials who are frustrated at their inability to get into meaningful games-- if only to give them good tests and a taste of the big time.

But the rest of your post is spot on. We can do better.

My kid quit reffing this year. The final straw was getting chewed out by a coach during a mite game. Got a job making $12/hr and is much happier for it.

Softball, soccer, hockey etc need to figure out what to do it they won't be able to hold games in the near future

Absolutely! A lot of it is very much an old boys club, and why you see the same 5-10 guys working the local Bantam AA games all the time in many locales.

The trade is the expectation of perfection, even at the youth levels. The youth association I worked for wanted to work Bantam B1 games as 3-man, to help get guys experience when, at the time, only Bantam A games were 3 man. They was so much push-back and "we cannot afford that" that it was abandoned quickly. We even have a few guys volunteer to work games for free as a third official to get that experience in the 3-man system. But then, since it was only a few games here and there (because nobody was willing to pay for it) teams complain about other teams getting "special treatment" at it was scrapped within the same season. Or heaven forbid, a referee gets hit with the puck (85' of ice, and you through the puck into the linesman's skates???), and then the coaches complain "they cant even get out of the way, we need less officials out here."

At Squirt and PeeWee hockey, you are getting new officials who are going to make as many mistakes as the players at that same level. The hope is they learn there, and not make those same mistakes as they move up, stakes are higher, and chances for players to get hurt go up significantly. But so many parents have zero margin for error in their Squirt B2 game, that so many officials as "is this even worth it" after barely giving it a go.

In NCAA (and Pro) hockey there is a HARD push to recruit former players as officials. And some of that is starting to pay off, the side effect being many of them are bypassing a lot of channels that your average official has to go through, and that can be extremely disheartening. But a lot of those former players have zero interest in working squirt and peewee hockey for 2 years... So I don't have a good answer there.

It is funny (or actually, not funny at all...). The highest level of hockey I ever worked was the ECHL, where I had an extremely brief cup of coffee, and worked several levels in between. The highest level of disrespect I have ever received from players was in NCAA Division III hockey, and it isn't even close. The highest level of disrespect I ever received from coaches and fans was youth hockey by FAR! (other than the one off of having my tires slashed, side view mirrors broken off, and taillights smashed in the parking lot of a Waterloo Blackhawks game, but the USHL paid me back for that). I am also willing to put up with a lot more at higher levels of hockey but it was really never there. Sure there is yelling and screaming, arguments, chastising, etc. but they never crossed the line. Youth coaches and parents cross the line all the time, and get so far past it, they cant even see it anymore. For a $40 game fee!!

Every year I hear stories from guys who get stopped in the dark parking lot at night on the way to their car after a game, worried they are going to have to call the police. Getting things thrown at them from a car in the parking lot. Having the locker room gone through while they were on the ice. Everything with youth sports has escalated to a point where it just isn't sustainable.

MSHSL is asking all their officials to try a new sport. Pushing on guys to try a 2nd season. For example the hockey officials are all getting emails about Lacrosse and how easy of a transition it is, to come give it a try. I know last 2 years MSHSL basketball games have been cancelled or postponed due to a shortage of officials. Its coming soon. Hockey and Football aren't in near as much of a pickle as some other sports, but it isn't duckies and bunnies either.

My son did his first year of officiating last year. He was a PWAA goalie and I was shocked out how little he was available to ref. Most of his income came when we were done and the in house stuff was still going.

He got the bird from a parent of a 12U game this year. As a coach and hockey family, I kind of prepped him for it. He is beyond confident in his call and just laughed the parent off. Not all people are able to do that.

Bottom line, we need to restrict parents from view and/or access to the refs. I get what I am saying but that’s the only way it changes.

As far as the youth levels of reffing, Fightclub is spot on. There are no consequences for bad behavior by coaches and parents. It shouldn't be on the ref to also police parent behavior. This will continue until MN hockey and individual districts decide to put actual consequences in place. One idea I have had and tried to get heard was to have a district official randomly attend youth games in the stands. Blend in and just watch. If a coach or parent has bad behavior penalize the team. Zero tolerance. Escalate it to the point where teams start losing games and teams and associations will police it themselves.

District 10 has a fair play point that can be taken away if a parent if penalized.

Spectators may also be suspended from attending games or banned altogether, if they have multiple offenses.

This is an interesting topic to me, and I've very much enjoyed reading fightclub30's perspective on officiating since he did the job at a relatively high level.

I've been thinking about giving refereeing a try in a few years when my daughter ages out of hockey and I'll have a little more free time in the winter. The pay is nice, but my main motivation is to stay physically active and "give back" to the sport that I love.

Doing more research on what's involved, and seeing fightclub30's perspective is definitely giving me pause. You expect a certain level of poor treatment, but some of these stories are so over the top, it's no wonder nobody wants the job.

Also, while I understand that referees have to "pay their dues", I have no interest in starting at the very bottom (Mite/Squirt/8U/10U). I've played or coached hockey for 30+ years and know the rules of the game inside and out. I'm not some 15 year old who is still learning things. I've heard bad things about the Good Old Boys Club of being assigned games, and don't want to deal with the political side of it.

Ironically we need people like you to work these games to hold coaches and spectators accountable. I don’t see a 16 year old kid penalizing a parent.

The bad behavior won’t stop until spectators are held accountable. The rule is there, it needs to be enforced.

I am just finishing up my first year reffing and will have about 200 games reffed in that year. [mention]fightclub30[/mention] is spot on. Summer hockey is the wild wild west. Not once was I close to ejecting a kid or coach during the winter. As soon as Summer hockey started the crap started and I ejected several coaches and one player. The player I ejected because he said I was "a f**king terrible ref". I do believe that a large part of it is that the parents pay way more money for summer than the winter and they all think little Johny is the next first rounder going to the NHL and the coaches all feel that they are coaching in game 7 of the Stanley Cup. My 13 year old also reffed this summer and is not totally sure he wants to keep going because of all the crap. My 16 year old loves it and wants to keep going.

As far as getting started, my home district is the good ol boys club. I reffed way more games in the neighboring district because they have one scheduler for all associations. Also each district has step ratings that you need to go thru to become qualified to do upper level games. That needs to be sped up or find a different process for some refs or they do lose interest when all they are getting scheduled are U10B games.

Hockey specifically has been headed in a strange direction the past two decades. I remember talking to some refs about doing our DIII MIAC football games and how they really look forward to them because the travel is easy, the kids are respectful and the coaches get it. Maybe that's changed as well since 2001, but I just don't get the attitude.

I think the only time coaching I ever really let a ref have it was during a JV hockey game where the physical stuff was just getting out of control and zero calls were being made. I did it between periods and out of sight of everyone... so not sure that it makes it better... but he did start calling everyone for their stickwork in the third period and things settled down. I once coached with a guy who before every game reminded the refs if any of his players cursed at them or the other team to just throw the flag or call a penalty -- immediately draw the line -- at least everyone then knew where it was.

On the flip side, refs let a LOT more physical play go in summer vs winter. You can't be surprised if games get out of control if you're (not accusing you directly) not calling the checking and slashes. We have one kid last year get a concussion from a checking from behind (not called) that put him out for the rest of the summer. This spring we played the same team and the same kid on the opposing team checked our same player form behind again. Also not called. Thankfully this year it didn't result in a concussion.

Each summer I have to sit my kid down and remind him that AAA hockey is more physical and to make sure he doesn't put himself in a bad situation.

One of my SCSU students has refereed HS girls, done USA Hockey national tournaments, and a full complement of youth and regional work. She asked her assigner to get her a couple of boys HS games. He said maybe, then proceeded to give her girls HS games only on top of U-14 and U-12s.

I caught him down here before a game as he was watching his son ref our JV. I asked him about the possibility of seeing her in one of our games. He just laughed at me.

This was during COVID, when crowds were been down anyway.

I was livid. When you combine parents with assignors who don't see the big picture, what is the point? Not suggesting she would have been some fantastic MSHSL boys game ref, but why can't you ease her in a little bit to see how she does--- last year was the perfect time to do so!

The associations have to find a way to break in folks and give them a taste of where they could go. And they have to honestly and earnestly tell those whose time has passed that they need to draw back a bit. But it's clear continuing the same model they have for 50 years is not going to be a recipe for success in the future.

I can tell you from personal experience, coach and parent behavior is the reason I don't umpire traveling baseball anymore. I was an above average to good umpire compared to most of my peers, definitely not the best but I was better than most.

I just reached a point where the headaches from parents and some coaches (namely a select few, a majority were pretty good) wasn't worth the money. It was $40-45 per game depending on the age and whether it was league or tournaments, and basically all paid in cash which was great. But dealing with shrieking moms and dads and pissed off coaches sapped all the joy out of umpiring for me.

I know slowpitch softball is desperate for umpires right now too. I was actually going to go do league this fall for a night or two before I got hurt.

I umpired four games for girls summer softball when I was in high school. That was enough for me to know I did not want to deal with coaches and parents who criticized your every call; even way back then. I was a 15 year old kid, I think I got like $15 a game. I can’t fathom dealing with that today. Kudos to those who can put up with all the asshats.

A couple years ago, in the HS Elite League (Fall league before HS regular season starts) a female official was working games as a warm up. She was selected to work games as a referee in the Winter Olympics. There were several players who got the boot from games she worked for comments they made; Why don't you go work women's hockey, this game is way too fast for you, etc. etc. When she was a better official than they had seen in awhile, and would likely see all season. It is pretty depressing. Personally, I am a HORRIBLE women's official. I get in a zone and think "Wow, that was a nice hit" a few seconds later "Why is everyone freaking out, that was a clean hit... oh.... right...."

My HS association has requirements to work higher level games, and while I get it, it is bizarre. Everyone wants officials with experience to get the high level games. But you need to actually work some high level games in order to get that experience. It is a chicken and egg scenario, or maybe its a catch-22.

I don't know what it is with many of the D-III hockey players, but there is zero sense of humor or self awareness. At the D-1 level, players apologize at TV stoppages for skating into you or firing the puck into you (as long as you were where you should be, and trying to get out of the way). D-III it is an immediate insult or personal attack. "you're f-ing horrible ref" "I know, I am out here with you guys" "oh, go f yourself you piece of..." The mouths on these catholic school players who then all go and pray together at the end of a game... Did you not all just listen to yourselves for the last 2 hours???

I have no problem hearing it from a player or coach when it is warranted. I make mistakes, I am a human. But there is a huge difference between "that was a horse* call." and "you're fing horse*** ref". I have a pretty low tolerance for personal attacks. And you just don't hear that at higher levels of hockey. Coaches and players get upset with calls, but it rarely becomes a personal attack. A PeeWee referee screws up an icing, and the personal attacks start flying.

I occasionally get to work with some younger officials, and I try to tell them what one supervisor told me "If you are getting paid $50 to work this game, then you need to deal with $50 of abuse, but not 1 cent more. But the nice thing is, you get to decide what $50 worth of abuse is." So yeah, when I used to go work a men's league game for $35 at 9:00 at night - I've got a pretty low bar for abuse. When I am got paid $275 to work a USHL game, I was willing to put up with a lot more, but rarely have to.

And one of the unfortunate things is, officials who get the reputation as those who kick out players and coaches, they stopped getting scheduled pretty quickly. Which results in nobody enforcing those rules, because they all want to work, and work better games. At the pre-game captains meetings (which at HS and D-3 are like talking to a box of rocks) I try to let them know that respect is a 2-way street - you have to give it to get it back. Then a captain, who has been nothing but whining at me all game, wonders why I won't give him the time of day late in a close game for his "free time-out" to rest guys while he whines about something unrelated to anything.

Not all coaches and players are bad. I've been yelled at and listened and said "yeah, I probably missed one there." or "I see what you're saying, I saw it a little differently" and many are good if you hear them out and acknowledge their thoughts on a play and we can all move on. There are also coaches who ask me what a player said/did to get penalized and when I tell them, they tell me "I will take care of it." Everyone has a bad night and sometimes I give a coach a heads up "Hey, number 8 needs to calm down for a bit, he is very close to getting penalized here." Some coaches see what I am trying to do, some will even sit a guy a shift or 2, others give me the old "I can't control them, what do you want me to do about it?"

It used to be a very small number of coaches who were a problem, but I think the problem is that small number has grown. And not only grown but also become more vocal in the process. So officials are being tasked with putting up with more and more while pay for games has risen only marginally in the last decade really.

My posts on this are getting way too long... I should go to bed for a bit. I have a ton of stories, but nobody needs to hear them all.

EDIT: I did get to wear a helmet cam in a USHL game - nobody wanted to talk to me that night. Maybe I should strap a GoPro to my helmet for youth and MSHSL games...

Trimmed some extraneous stuff out.

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Sounds like the beginnings of a nice article on The Athletic and or Hockey USA magazine.

Definitely. Love hearing a more personal explanation of some of this. While I'll get upset and yell at refs at the D1 level, for example... I like to think that I'd be a bit easier going at lower levels (kind of figure that by D1, you should know what you're doing)

Looking forward to more tales from the ice.

PLEASE go easy on refs at lower levels. Most are learning and brand new. I only made it to where I did because I made a lot of mistakes. Mistakes are wonderful learning opportunities. Once you make a big enough mistake it gets etched in your brain and you make sure you never do that again. Mistakes are going to happen, live with it. Some will be in your kids favor, some won't be. It will even out over time. Just think about how many mistakes kids make at that level, and don't be surprised if an official makes a handful in a PeeWee B game. Plus it helps to teach kids how to handle adversity; hey, some nights it doesn't bounce your way or you get the short straw, it happens. Rather than a mistake being a high crime and needing to be instantly corrected or rectified.

But honestly, at the D1 level and above, hearing it from fans is typically part of the fun. I remember the first time getting boos rained down on me from 8,000 fans in my first D1 game at SCSU and one of my partners skates over winks and says "welcome to the WCHA" while flying by, I couldn't have had a bigger smile on my face at that point in time. Which probably got a few more boos. You don't really want to be noticed, but the jeers let you know its still a big deal. And yes, by the time you get to D1 you should know what you are doing. I'll never forgot how upset fans get when the implement new rules (IE using hands to win a faceoff) and start screaming at the officials without realizing it is a brand new rule.

However, the personal attacks are poor form. I remember being in the stands when Gopher fans were going after Campion one night and chanting "ref beats his wife" and things like that. All while his wife is going through cancer treatment. So don't ever go places like that. On the other hand "Does your wife know you're screwing us?" will usually get a chuckle. I hope people can see the difference. Random guy yelling "Get a pregnancy test ref, you just missed the last period!" funny. Random guy yelling "Ref, you f*****g suck" not funny or intelligent and rather tasteless.

Maybe a few fun stories?

One of the coolest things in the world, in my opinion, is coming out of a dark tunnel, pre-game crowd pump-up music blaring, lasers and stages lights flashing, taking a running start and hitting those for few strides on a freshly zammed sheet of ice. Oh man! If I could bottle up that feeling and just take a little sip from it here and there. My first game in Lincoln, NE for the USHL -- goosebumps. At the time, they had a better pre-game sequence than most NHL teams.

Being at the teddy bear toss game one year at a packed Resch Center in Green Bay was cool. GB scores in the 2nd period, lights dim, spotlights go on, music blares and thousands of teddy bears start raining from sky. Best part was not having to pick it up, just getting to observe while the arena staff took care of it. Pretty cool and fun thing just to experience.

I was working a game in Rio Grande Valley, TX for the CHL (Rock 'em, Sock 'em hockey League). That night they had a special where if the home team scored a Power Play goal, Beer would be $2 for the next 2:00. I remember after the first PPG seeing the mad rush to the concessions. They went on to score 4 total power play goals that night, and I think we had at least 3 if not 4 fights. I had my arm up for a penalty in the third and think I got a standing ovation, haha. I think they were ready to throw me a party that night. After the game in the locker room we each had a pizza and 2 beers from the team, and the GM came down to laugh about his record sales night. Looking back, I now slightly cringe at the thought of the amount of DWIs that could've happened that night.

I remember one night I flipped the puck to a 7/8 year old kid at the end of a college game, and he was so pumped. The next night I hear some banging on the glass during warmups and the parents point to the same kid, now in a referee sweater tonight. So I went to the locker room a got one of my still packaged whistles and gave it to him. The "What did you just do?" look on his parent's face was priceless. I hope the kid gave it a shot one day, or at least is the "hey, not so hard on the refs people" guy in his group. I always tired to flip pucks to kids, give knuckles and smiles, etc. to people. I hope that if people see that we are people too, actual human beings, that we aren't so different, maybe things will improve.

Mankato had a company (among many) donate towards the Arena renovations and this one, I am told, specifically asked to be part of the officials room renovation. The new room was a HUGE improvement over the old one. They also made sure there was a cooler with ice and 4 tall Coors Lights in it at the end of every game regardless of outcome. How cool is that? Another game in Mankato I got my hand cut open by a players skate on a faceoff, needed 8 stitches. Team doctor, from Mayo clinic comes down and stitches me up. Checks on me between periods and before the game the next night. I never saw a bill from that. USA Hockey - I take a stick to the mouth breaking up a Jr. Gold B fight and need a crown. They tell me they don't cover anything until I have paid $1,000 out of pocket. So the game I get paid WAY more to do, I don't pay a dime. The game I only get paid $60 to work, I have to pay my own $750 dental deductible. Noted.

Being an on-ice official in the WCHA (pre split) was the coolest side job I could've ever asked for and I am so happy I had a chance to do it for 4 seasons before the split. I had the best seat in the house to the best college hockey conference in the country 4 nights a month. It was incredible, sure plenty of games were stressful, but there were plenty of nights where we would sit around afterwards and say "can you believe we get paid to do this?" Unfortunately, things got weird after the split, things became much more business like. Still worked games, it was just never quite the same (as I am sure nearly everyone on here can attest to). Even UMD vs MTU was way more fun than MNSU vs LSSU... Ended up having a scheduling conflict and had to "turn back" a series I was scheduled for so I could travel for work. Never saw the ice again that year, the following season I was removed from the scheduling software, email & phone list, and it was all over. I left 2 voicemails and sent several emails, none of which were responded to. I never got to soak in a "last game", take time to be the last one off the ice and give a look around. Enjoy what you have, cause you never know when it will all be over.

NCAA Road trips were fun. Although, around the time of the split, some fans were upset about the outcome of a game and phone-filmed the officials drinking and laughing at a local bar after the game and sent it to the league. I mean, heaven forbid someone have a few cold ones and a good time after work. Suddenly you couldn't go to a bar within a certain radius of the arena. Then some coaches got mad about guys having a beer in the locker room after the game and that got axed as well. "My guys just lost a hard fought game, and they have to walk past the officials room and see them drinking and laughing?" - oh, the horrors!!! People need to take a chill pill.

For the record, the chant from Gopher fans was “the ref needs a wife” (….so he won’t screw us). Sometimes it was needs a sheep. ?

To be honest, I don't go to any games below High School level, but even there, I expect some degree of mistakes. I'm sure I was somewhat less accommodating when I was actually in high school going to the games, of course...

Curious what people's thoughts are on the rules changes for USA Hockey.

Just a few:

- Tag-Up offsides eliminated in Bantams (previously eliminated in levels below).

- Face-off location after penalties will be in defending zone of offending team. With the obvious exceptions (after goals, start of period, etc).

- Major + Game added as a minimum for slew-footing.

- Shorthanded icing now eliminated from all levels (other than adult, was previously eliminated at certain levels).

- Major penalties now include an automatic Game Misconduct.

Tag up change is dumb. Kids playing summer hockey have been doing tag up and get it.

Face-off location I like.

Slew footing is dangerous!

Shorthanded ice whistle is meh. I dont care either way

Major + Misconduct is good.

[mention]fightclub30[/mention]

I guess the tag-up offsides rule makes sense to keep applying on up as most of the kids have always played that way at this point. It does encourage players to handle the puck more rather than just dump it into the zone.

I guess I understand taking away icing the puck shorthanded... as why would you make it easier to kill off a penalty... but I don't know if that's ever going to be called at the higher levels of hockey that way, so it's a tough one for me. Definitely promotes players to play with more skill though.

I like faceoffs for power plays always starting in the offensive zone.

I just hope that the major/game rules don't change the way games are called. I've seen possible majors called as minors just to avoid the harshness of the penalty.

More whistles, slower games.

Agree with most of what you said. Yeah, it will be interesting to see at Bantams. And then players new to the rule at High School. Back when I worked youth hockey I always thought it was strange hearing PeeWee and Squirt coaches harping on systems and dumping the puck. What a boring way to play the game as a kid. Make them take it from you, encourage creativity and playmaking. A dump-in should be a last resort, not a go-to play at the youth levels.

I have been an advocate of not icing while shorthanded for awhile. I never understood, why when a team breaks the rules and is penalized, we suddenly allow them to break a different rule during that time. If the NHL wants to increase scoring, that'd be a big one right there. I do agree on the higher level aspect though. Funny thing about that though:

Hybrid Icing - started in the USHL.

No line change after icing and puck out of play in D-zone - started in USHL. And has only had more instances added like knocking the net off.

Faceoff in attacking zone after penalties - started in USHL (with lots of weird exceptions before it got to where it is today).

So there is some hope it could work its way up. Even if it doesn't, I think encouraging kids at a young age NOT to rely on just firing the puck down the ice constantly is good. Because if it is allowed, coaches will "strongly suggest" the kids do it.

I too am worried about Major/Game changing the way it is called a bit. I also agree that officials, especially more prevalent at the youth levels, have a tendency to err on the side of a lesser penalty. Whether to avoid paperwork, or kicking a kid out of additional games... who knows, but it happens. I always appreciated that Jr. Gold hockey had the "Game Ejection." Sometimes as an official you can tell a guy is having a bad night and don't want to wait for his 5th penalty, and he needs to get off the ice but doesn't need to sit out the next game because of it. That's what the E.J. was for. I have had on-ice conversations with other officials where "yeah, but is it worth him sitting the next game" comes up. Shouldn't be a question, but it is. Nobody enjoys kicking kids out of games, but it needs to happen at times.

When I work with newer officials, I try to tell them - Major Penalties are like Pornography; you know it when you see it. If your brain stops you and goes "holy $h*t" - that's a major penalty. But guys still really try to talk themselves out of it more often than not. Hopefully this rule change has the desired effect.

Didn't I see the new rule about penalty length too? 12-17 minute period games would be 90 second [mention]fightclub30[/mention]

EDIT: The bold typing is mine..

That is optional by association/state I believe, and I hadn't heard if MN Hockey adopted it or not.

You want to talk about slower games, that's one way to do it... It is hard to enough to get volunteer time keepers** to get up a 2:00 penalty "Hit Player/Penalty, enter, enter, enter" and 2:00 goes up. If they have to enter 1:45, 1:30 for penalties... oh boy, cant wait for that. Outside of that, I don't have any issue with it.

**There are a bunch of parents who are only there because they have to; they're chatting and forget to stop the clock, forget to start the clock, can't put up penalties, don't know coincidental don't go up, etc. but then get upset with the officials if they think an offsides was missed, haha. In fairness, there are a handful of all-star parent clock operators who would have the penalties up on the clock before the player sat down in the box, had the stopwatch on their phones ready to go for timeouts, etc. It was always fun to explain a 7:00 penalty, haha. Major gets served first by rule, he cannot come out until 7:00 is up, or a goal is scored in the last 2:00 (if still shorthanded). The strange look you get every time, you can see the gears turning in their heads haha.

Agree with you on the 1:30 penalty ans getting it on the board. First time I ever experienced it was during the Squirt International. It’s even more difficult to announce those penalties “90 seconds for tripping” or “1 minute and 30 seconds for tripping”?

I'd like to think I'm one of those All-Star parent clock operators by now. I enjoy running the clock and occasionally sign up for it even when I don't need the volunteer hours. That said, I still get humbled a few times a year when I get distracted and forget to start the clock back up after a stoppage... especially if it happens to be a power play. Nothing like a hundred angry parents yelling "START THE CLOCK!" at you.

I did this a couple of years ago and added 30 seconds or so to our team's penalty. It nearly cost us a goal. I felt terrible.

It happens everywhere. Just stand up and take a bow.

That's why I like announcing. I purposely put emphasis on certain names or pronounce them a certain way that I know people will talk about.

A few years back my kid's team played against a team with a bunch of buddies on it. One kid's name was Reece. I called him Rice all game. Another kid was a Spiewak (Spee-Wack) and I called him (Spy-whack). Helps to be good friends with the parents, but the kids get a bigger kick out of it. I have never heard my last name pronounced correctly and my family and I still laugh about it..

Our kids just found out their peewee teams this weekend and so I was trying to fill out my calendar with tournament dates.

One of my kids plays in a tournament in Detroit Lakes. One of the teams in the tourney is from Grafton ND. Population 4,284 makes it the 14th largest city in ND.

What?

When I first moved to Fargo, they used to advertise the Fargodome and Bison and how every Saturday, the Fargodome became ND’a 5th largest city. It was true. Some stuff has changed since with the oil stuff, but yeah Class B basketball is a big deal here. LOTS of small towns.

Coincidentally, Grafton is where they used the snow scenes for the Fargo movie.

Just a shade over 60K behind number 14 in Minnesota.

14 Burnsville 64,317

If Grafton were in MN, it would rank 167. Between Wadena and Cannon Falls.

With those super short tournament games (only 12:00 periods) they should be 1:00 penalty's.

In the middle ages when I played high school the periods were 12 minutes long and the penalites were only a minute and a half. Also, no checking except in your D zone. Long term, these rules would not have produced nearly the number of D1 players that you see today.

15 minute periods and two minute penalties when I played HS.

Most of our third periods were running time.

It looks like MN Hockey did adopt the 90 second penalty for 12-17 minute periods. However, I was looking at the D10 rule changes this year and they moved several levels to 90 minute games with 17 minute stop time periods BB1, PWAA, PWA, PWB1, 15U A/B, 12U A/B for instance. The levels that do not play 90 minute games (PWB2 and PWC, all squirts, etc) will still play 60 min periods, but they change the periods to be 17 min run times (periods 1&2) with the 3rd period modified to fit within the remaining time of ice. So for D10 all games will have 17 minute periods and thus use 2 min minor penalty times.

The one goofy caveat is in the 60 min games, the periods are 17 min run time EXCEPT during penalties, at which time the game will be stop time. This is going to mess the time keepers up a LOT and there will be some pissed off people when the clock isn't stopped during a penalty.

I have one kid who will play 90 min games and one who will play 60 min games so I'll be bouncing back and forth on the rules. Please Lord don't let me fail...

From MN Hockey

A pro-rated schedule for minor penalties was established based on period length. For periods 12-minutes or less, the minor penalty length shall be 1:00. The minor penalty time shall be 1:30 for more than 12 and less than 17-minute periods and 2:00 for periods 17- minutes in length or greater. Per an allowed affiliate exception, Minnesota Hockey determined all minor penalties at the Bantam/15U level and up will be 2:00 in penalty time regardless of period length.

I am sorry, in my opinion this is just stupid. The "Pick and Choose" - exception here, caveat there system of doing things isn't conducive to Youth Hockey... Run time, except when there is a penalty -- you're right that clock isn't going to get stopped/started. Then you're going to have stoppages to get time added back on or taken off. And/Or endless whining/screaming about not starting/stopping the clock.

You have curfew games (ice time clock), things like this just lead to confusion between coaches, time-keepers, players, inexperienced officials. You're going to waste time having to constantly explain it to people. So in the end you're going to have less time for the kids to play hockey anyway.

Is it necessary for all those levels to play 90 minute games? Just asking. BB1 and up - sure. Pee Wees? You just added an extra half hour of ice to all this games and ice time is already a scarce resource. Ice Time cost also just increased at those levels, and you're going to pay your officials more for those games, which everyone always complains about anyway.

I can understand the argument for 90 second penalties at 15:00 periods or less. At 17:00 periods, everything should just be "normal" and not modified. Sure a 2:00 penalty "hurts" a little more, just teach kids not to break the rules rather than being more lenient.

For me personally, I like the 90 game times. 60 minutes seems too short for the upper level teams (PWAA was already playing 90 min games). I have a PWA and a PWC. Many of the kids on the C team are pooped after a 60 minute game whereas most of the kids on B1 and higher teams are better conditioned. Most play year round and have been playing 90 minutes games during the AAA season.

The ice time question is legit. I don't think it is as big of a problem for my association as it will be for smaller associations (although smaller associations have fewer AA and A teams so maybe not). Maybe we will see more league games at those levels on weekends when ice time is more available? Assuming they don't reduce practice time to allow for longer games, it'll add 5 hours of ice per team per year (10 home league games, or less, per team). Not insurmountable.

For 60 minute games, I wish they'd have left it the way it was. Stop time for 1st two periods and running time for the 3rd.. Two min penalties.

I've got 2 boys in peewees this year and wow.

I have one in PWA and the other in PWC. My PWC kid is in the middle of 23 practices or games in 25 days and 30 of last 34. Some of these are 2 events in one night. Thankfully for him he had a blister on his foot and was able to sit a few out. But wow.

It's interesting. I am the scrimmage coordinator for the team. I have been adding games as needed, but it sometimes fills a void in the schedule that they probably need for a night off. Might be time to cancel a practice or two to give the boys a break.

I always looked for scrimmages to get rid of 'bad' ice times since I truly enjoyed throwing some of the early morning ice times back into the association's pool.

Well, everyone talks about “ice touches” but for that level you would be better off cancelling the scrimmages for a night off in lieu of cancelling a practice….but that does seem like ALOT of practices.

If you’re grooming a kid to be a high school or college+ player then yes. More touches means better players. But for Peewee C….let them go out and play. Most of these kids will play 1 or 2 more years and extra touches isn’t going to make much difference in their hockey future. Play games.

It’s my biggest pet peeve with Hockey USA. Always trying to groom kids for the Olympics. By the time they actually get to play hockey, many kids are sick of it.

Now my A player. He can’t get enough.

<a href=" https://twitter.com/EastSideHockey/status/1484208958176997377?s=2 0" class="bbcode_url"> https://twitter.com/EastSideHockey/status/1484208958176997377?s=20

Love that the whole town is getting involved in Hockey day MN and I get to officiate two of the games.