I cannot believe how much dealers seem to not want me to buy a vehicle from them. Clearly they hate people who have their own financing.
This is exactly it. The last I looked into this, the companies made way more money on the financing than they did on the sale of the vehicle itself.
It's interesting, my wife and I bank at WF and it doesn't look like they do auto loans anymore. Per their website they suggest asking about financing via WF when discussing financing at the dealer. I am guessing a big reason is banks are not interesting in taking back vehicles, they are not equipped to be in the used car business. Heck, a friend from HS started a business exactly around this, he went from repossessing cars to selling them for financial institutions who don't want to be stuck with a parking lot of repoed autos and toys.
For us if we do decide to finance I've found the rates we've been able to get via the dealer are just as good or better than we could get through any bank or credit union. Helps that our credit rating is wicked high, we financed about half of my wife's RDX last year and our rate is 1% for a used car.
“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
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I think a home equity LOC is still deductible.
I have used one when needed.
As soon as we started to play the "Sales Manager Game" I would get up and leave. Don't BS me & act like we are buddies and you will advocate to the SM for us. Nope!
The guy I have dealt with at North Country told me on our 1st deal he has been doing this for 30 yrs & knows the parameters that they need to be met. I also had priced pick ups in Pine River, Askov, Pine City, & Isanti. The 1st 3 are known for moving PUs. They were all within a couple of hundred $ on the same unit. Isanti? They played the SM / monthly payment game.
North Country was a couple of hundred lower & threw in an electric brake control on a rig that already had every thing I wanted.
We asked about the one we looked at in sconnie.
Likely because they want to sell one off their lot. I know when I bought my Colorado, they searched dealer inventories within something like 400 miles to find one with the options I wanted. No one had what I was looking for, so I ended up having to order it.
I spoke to a different local dealer and they are more than willing to get the first one we looked at in wisco. Won’t even cost us much more - we’ll pretty much break even not having to drive 10 hours to get it! This will screw the asshats at the other dealer too. Crossing fingers. ??
We asked about the one we looked at in sconnie.
Likely because they want to sell one off their lot. I know when I bought my Colorado, they searched dealer inventories within something like 400 miles to find one with the options I wanted. No one had what I was looking for, so I ended up having to order it.
I spoke to a different local dealer and they are more than willing to get the first one we looked at in wisco. Won’t even cost us much more - we’ll pretty much break even not having to drive 10 hours to get it! This will screw the asshats at the other dealer too. Crossing fingers. ??
Glad things are working out for you.
:good2:
Tact is the ability to step on a man's toes without messing up the shine on his shoes - Harry S Truman
I cannot believe how much dealers seem to not want me to buy a vehicle from them. Clearly they hate people who have their own financing.
This is exactly it. The last I looked into this, the companies made way more money on the financing than they did on the sale of the vehicle itself.
Financing is 4.8% of revenue but 29% of gross profit for an average dealership
New car sales are 52.3% of revenue and 14.3% of gross profit
Source: Fightingchance.com
North Country Ford in Coon Rapids is a Luther dealer and has treated us very well. The $$$ was right and service has been fine.
Pretty sure they sell more Fords than anyone in MN. Must be a reason for that. I have had good experiences there over the last 20 years. Plus, if you go there, you just might see Sioux/Bucky Hater out walking his dog nearby.
I still have an Art Goebel Ford keychain from the old dealership that was on CR Blvd. I believe it is a Uhaul storage place now. My parents got a Taurus there not long before it shut down and North Country was going up.
North Country Ford in Coon Rapids is a Luther dealer and has treated us very well. The $$$ was right and service has been fine.
Pretty sure they sell more Fords than anyone in MN. Must be a reason for that. I have had good experiences there over the last 20 years. Plus, if you go there, you just might see Whioux/Bucky Hater out walking his dog nearby.
You probably are rhe most qualified perdon on GPL to comment abouy the profit center of finance vs unit sales. I know that was awhile ago for you and the "units" were a discretionary buy.
I cannot believe how much dealers seem to not want me to buy a vehicle from them. Clearly they hate people who have their own financing.
This is exactly it. The last I looked into this, the companies made way more money on the financing than they did on the sale of the vehicle itself.
Financing is 4.8% of revenue but 29% of gross profit for an average dealership
New car sales are 52.3% of revenue and 14.3% of gross profit
Source: Fightingchance.com
That sounds like the kind of numbers I was remembering. Thanks for the confirmation.
B1G refs... corrupt, or just incompetent?
North Country Ford in Coon Rapids is a Luther dealer and has treated us very well. The $$$ was right and service has been fine.
Pretty sure they sell more Fords than anyone in MN. Must be a reason for that. I have had good experiences there over the last 20 years. Plus, if you go there, you just might see Whioux/Bucky Hater out walking his dog nearby.
You probably are rhe most qualified perdon on GPL to comment abouy the profit center of finance vs unit sales. I know that was awhile ago for you and the "units" were a discretionary buy.
The easiest way to put it is: There is a lot more profit selling a piece of paper than virtually anything else.
Financing is 4.8% of revenue but 29% of gross profit for an average dealership
New car sales are 52.3% of revenue and 14.3% of gross profit
Source: Fightingchance.com
I would think a dealer's Service Dept would account for a healthy percentage.
Financing is 4.8% of revenue but 29% of gross profit for an average dealership
New car sales are 52.3% of revenue and 14.3% of gross profit
Source: Fightingchance.com
I would think a dealer's Service Dept would account for a healthy percentage.
You would think it would have to. When most dealers seem to be charging around $160+/Hour for labor and charging book time vs actual time, and paying mechanics $25-35 an hour?
I know they take a hit on warranty work, because the brand pays them much less for warranty than what the customer would pay for the same job. Or so that's what I was told.
Additionally billing for work that isn't actually completed in the case of my wife's car. Yeah, the rear spark plugs on a transverse V6 are a royal PITA to replace, that's why we took it to you. You assumed I wouldn't find out until well afterwards, and could likely claim something else was the problem.
They also tell customers to go 10,000 miles or more on a synthetic blend oil change, say things like Timing chains are a "lifetime" item without needing maintenance or replacement. Yes, it will last the lifetime of the warranty, then you get to pay for it or buy a brand new car from us. It is like dealers don't want to sell routine maintenance, they want to sell major repairs and replacement vehicles after catastrophic failures.
I guess John Q Public is probably also culpable. When presented with 2 options, if one has less maintenance they are likely to pick that one.
I've moved to doing all my own maintenance, trouble-shooting, and repair. Fluids are cheap; oil, transmission fluid, etc. A new engine or transmission is not. What's the saying; "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"?
Financing is 4.8% of revenue but 29% of gross profit for an average dealership
New car sales are 52.3% of revenue and 14.3% of gross profit
Source: Fightingchance.com
I would think a dealer's Service Dept would account for a healthy percentage.
You would think it would have to. When most dealers seem to be charging around $160+/Hour for labor and charging book time vs actual time, and paying mechanics $25-35 an hour?
I know they take a hit on warranty work, because the brand pays them much less for warranty than what the customer would pay for the same job. Or so that's what I was told.
Additionally billing for work that isn't actually completed in the case of my wife's car. Yeah, the rear spark plugs on a transverse V6 are a royal PITA to replace, that's why we took it to you. You assumed I wouldn't find out until well afterwards, and could likely claim something else was the problem.
They also tell customers to go 10,000 miles or more on a synthetic blend oil change, say things like Timing chains are a "lifetime" item without needing maintenance or replacement. Yes, it will last the lifetime of the warranty, then you get to pay for it or buy a brand new car from us. It is like dealers don't want to sell routine maintenance, they want to sell major repairs and replacement vehicles after catastrophic failures.
I guess John Q Public is probably also culpable. When presented with 2 options, if one has less maintenance they are likely to pick that one.
I've moved to doing all my own maintenance, trouble-shooting, and repair. Fluids are cheap; oil, transmission fluid, etc. A new engine or transmission is not. What's the saying; "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"?
I love that commercial where the girl is laughing because her dad said, “this is a dipstick”. :biggrin2: I was that girl! My dad made sure I could change a tire, change my oil, top off basic fluids and change an air filter. Believe me that was waaaay before that type of lesson was common for girls. I’ve thanked him many times for providing me the basic knowledge. Plus I just like to know how things work. I may not be able to repair something, but I have working know-how.
Note: Due to inflation dirty deeds will no longer be done dirt cheap.
We asked about the one we looked at in sconnie.
Likely because they want to sell one off their lot. I know when I bought my Colorado, they searched dealer inventories within something like 400 miles to find one with the options I wanted. No one had what I was looking for, so I ended up having to order it.
I spoke to a different local dealer and they are more than willing to get the first one we looked at in wisco. Won’t even cost us much more - we’ll pretty much break even not having to drive 10 hours to get it! This will screw the asshats at the other dealer too. Crossing fingers. ??
Soooo, the local dealer said we’d hear by 2. They are still negotiating with the sconnie dealer. Bet they know it’s us and are being jerks. At this rate I’ll probably just end up ordering one with everything I want. Will be a bit more than I’d like to spend but maybe that’s what the universe wants. ?
Didn’t there used to be a Consumer Research thread? 
Financing is 4.8% of revenue but 29% of gross profit for an average dealership
New car sales are 52.3% of revenue and 14.3% of gross profit
Source: Fightingchance.com
I would think a dealer's Service Dept would account for a healthy percentage.
About 17% of revenue and 47% of profit
Didn’t there used to be a Consumer Research thread?
It's funny because the antithesis of simple pleasure is buying a car, but here we are.
Sorry 
Simple pleasures - the dealer in Wisconsin were a-holes to the dealer we are working with here so they get nothing. I get to custom order a vehicle I’ve wanted for years. And then wait three months. 
?
It's funny because the antithesis of simple pleasure is buying a car, but here we are.
I've had a few 'simple pleasures' buying a car over the years, but I've had a couple of tortuous ones as well. The worst was when I desperately wanted to buy a newly introduced sports car for which the demand far exceeded the supply. But I quickly learned that the few dealers that carried that brand were down to their last one or two that they had available for sale. So I got right on it and was able to negotiate a purchase on a gorgeous blue one, the dealer's last one until the next model year, and shook hands with the salesman after agreeing to pay list price. This was still a good deal because the car was in tremendous demand, and was arguably underpriced to begin with, at $7,995 list, brand new!* Then, after roughly 5 minutes waiting in the sales guy's office, he came in and informed me that the car had been sold to someone else. Huh? Well, as it turned out, in those last 5 minutes another buyer came in and presumably offered something higher (above list), and plus he had a late model Corvette that would be traded in as part of the deal...and there went my 'would be' simple pleasure!
I did end up getting the car from a different dealer, but had to pay a little more - around $500 over list as I recall - to get the car I was hell-bent determined to get. But I was still pi$$ed enough at Dealer #1 that I wrote a letter to the State Commerce Dept. explaining what happened. And wouldn't you know, I never did hear back.
* Any GPL seniors out there able to identify the make and model of the car? :conf2:
I would think default rates are comparatively low on vehicles compared to other forms of uncollateralized credit, such as credit cards or borrowing from family. 
This is America and peeps gotta drive.
If I had to guess which bill gets paid religiously, I would put my money on the cable bill, maybe even over the cell phone. I mean, t.v. is more important than talking to one's friends or even eating for that matter. I remember going to the local Comcast store - which, incidentally, looked more dilapidated than the local post office - for a simple cable box exchange. When I got there the line was out the front door. Apparently, I hit the day of the month when people had their cable disconnected because they hadn't paid their bill on time.
280Z? :conf2:
“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's funny because the antithesis of simple pleasure is buying a car, but here we are.
I've had a few 'simple pleasures' buying a car over the years, but I've had a couple of tortuous ones as well. The worst was when I desperately wanted to buy a newly introduced sports car for which the demand far exceeded the supply. But I quickly learned that the few dealers that carried that brand were down to their last one or two that they had available for sale. So I got right on it and was able to negotiate a purchase on a gorgeous blue one, the dealer's last one until the next model year, and shook hands with the salesman after agreeing to pay list price. This was still a good deal because the car was in tremendous demand, and was arguably underpriced to begin with, at $7,995 list, brand new!* Then, after roughly 5 minutes waiting in the sales guy's office, he came in and informed me that the car had been sold to someone else. Huh? Well, as it turned out, in those last 5 minutes another buyer came in and presumably offered something higher (above list), and plus he had a late model Corvette that would be traded in as part of the deal...and there went my 'would be' simple pleasure!
I did end up getting the car from a different dealer, but had to pay a little more - around $500 over list as I recall - to get the car I was hell-bent determined to get. But I was still pi$$ed enough at Dealer #1 that I wrote a letter to the State Commerce Dept. explaining what happened. And wouldn't you know, I never did hear back.
* Any GPL seniors out there able to identify the make and model of the car? :conf2:
Pontiac Fiero?
It's funny because the antithesis of simple pleasure is buying a car, but here we are.
I've had a few 'simple pleasures' buying a car over the years, but I've had a couple of tortuous ones as well. The worst was when I desperately wanted to buy a newly introduced sports car for which the demand far exceeded the supply. But I quickly learned that the few dealers that carried that brand were down to their last one or two that they had available for sale. So I got right on it and was able to negotiate a purchase on a gorgeous blue one, the dealer's last one until the next model year, and shook hands with the salesman after agreeing to pay list price. This was still a good deal because the car was in tremendous demand, and was arguably underpriced to begin with, at $7,995 list, brand new!* Then, after roughly 5 minutes waiting in the sales guy's office, he came in and informed me that the car had been sold to someone else. Huh? Well, as it turned out, in those last 5 minutes another buyer came in and presumably offered something higher (above list), and plus he had a late model Corvette that would be traded in as part of the deal...and there went my 'would be' simple pleasure!
I did end up getting the car from a different dealer, but had to pay a little more - around $500 over list as I recall - to get the car I was hell-bent determined to get. But I was still pi$$ed enough at Dealer #1 that I wrote a letter to the State Commerce Dept. explaining what happened. And wouldn't you know, I never did hear back.
* Any GPL seniors out there able to identify the make and model of the car? :conf2:
Smokey and the Bandit car, aka Pontiac Trans Am or Camaro Iroc Z28?
I'm 50% factual and 50% sarcastic. When you get to know me, you will know which is which.
280Z? :conf2:
Close, but even the 240Z was priced higher than ......
Pontiac Fiero?
HaHaHa nice/funny try!
Corvair Monza Spyder
Only because:
1) A Corvette was traded. Implies a Chevy dealer.
2) They were called " The Poormans Porsche".
Money seems way off though & my 1st guess of a Z28 was not right.
1984 Camaro IROC Sports Coupe
Didn't know where to put this, but it's epic. Bryant Lake Bowl.
https://twitter.com/skycandystudios/status/1369014828262637570
Simple pleasures - the dealer in Wisconsin were a-holes to the dealer we are working with here so they get nothing. I get to custom order a vehicle I’ve wanted for years. And then wait three months.
?Cool that you get to order a new one. Not cool that the WI dealer would not do the dealer trade with the MN dealer. If you told the WI dealer where you were from, they absolutely knew the trade request was for you. Shame on them. You reap what you sow.
1984 Camaro IROC Sports Coupe
No on both the Corvair and Camero (although my father had a Corvair, on which I learned to drive a stick).
1984 Camaro IROC Sports Coupe
No on both the Corvair and Camero (although my father had a Corvair, on which I learned to drive a stick).
Me too, 1st car I drove was a Corvair with a 3 speed stick shift! Trunk in the front, engine in the back, bright blue exterior!
Hint on my above "Simple Pleasure": It had a different type of engine (and no, not steam! 
)
No year of the deal so another WAG would be a true Shelby American, a blue GT 350. Blue also was a preferred color.
Edit: After seeing the hint there simply were only a few Wankel engined cars.
No year of the deal so another WAG would be a true Shelby American, a blue GT 350. Blue also was a preferred color.
Edit: After seeing the hint there simply were only a few Wankel engined cars.
I was going to say Mustang but don't really remember seeing blue ones. Then again, I'm not a resident senior so maybe my guess doesn't count. In any case, $8K for a new sports car. This has to go a ways back.
No year of the deal so another WAG would be a true Shelby American, a blue GT 350. Blue also was a preferred color.
Edit: After seeing the hint there simply were only a few Wankel engined cars.
Yep, a Mazda RX-7.
No year of the deal so another WAG would be a true Shelby American, a blue GT 350. Blue also was a preferred color.
Edit: After seeing the hint there simply were only a few Wankel engined cars.
Yep, a Mazda RX-7.
I couldn't pull up the model ( RX) much less number 7 or 8. I never drove one. I heard they were fast. An interesting trivia factoid is a Norton motorcycle in that era also was Wankel powered.
No year of the deal so another WAG would be a true Shelby American, a blue GT 350. Blue also was a preferred color.
Edit: After seeing the hint there simply were only a few Wankel engined cars.
Yep, a Mazda RX-7.
As soon as U dropped that hint...RX-7 popped into my head. Had a rotary engine (whatever that is) ? What I remember is when they 1st came out, the styling was terrific & ahead of its time ?
No year of the deal so another WAG would be a true Shelby American, a blue GT 350. Blue also was a preferred color.
Edit: After seeing the hint there simply were only a few Wankel engined cars.
Yep, a Mazda RX-7.
I was in the ‘hood but wasn’t able to pull that one from the deep, dark, recesses. What year?
“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simple pleasures - the dealer in Wisconsin were a-holes to the dealer we are working with here so they get nothing. I get to custom order a vehicle I’ve wanted for years. And then wait three months.
?Cool that you get to order a new one. Not cool that the WI dealer would not do the dealer trade with the MN dealer. If you told the WI dealer where you were from, they absolutely knew the trade request was for you. Shame on them. You reap what you sow.
Pretty sure they knew it was us, but even the local dealer basically said without saying it that they were assholes - he did say they were completely crazy and unreasonable. I’m a little disappointed as it means a few extra K out of our pockets but glad to screw them. ?
Do not ever try to do business with Palmen motors in Kenosha. I think we’ve crossed Belzer’s off the list for the future too.
Simple pleasures - the dealer in Wisconsin were a-holes to the dealer we are working with here so they get nothing. I get to custom order a vehicle I’ve wanted for years. And then wait three months.
?Cool that you get to order a new one. Not cool that the WI dealer would not do the dealer trade with the MN dealer. If you told the WI dealer where you were from, they absolutely knew the trade request was for you. Shame on them. You reap what you sow.
Pretty sure they knew it was us, but even the local dealer basically said without saying it that they were assholes - he did say they were completely crazy and unreasonable. I’m a little disappointed as it means a few extra K out of our pockets but glad to screw them. ?
Do not ever try to do business with Palmen motors in Kenosha. I think we’ve crossed Belzer’s off the list for the future too.
Make sure to write reviews of your experience online so others are aware. Don't exaggerate, but tell people exactly what happened and how that made you feel.
Simple pleasures - the dealer in Wisconsin were a-holes to the dealer we are working with here so they get nothing. I get to custom order a vehicle I’ve wanted for years. And then wait three months.
?Cool that you get to order a new one. Not cool that the WI dealer would not do the dealer trade with the MN dealer. If you told the WI dealer where you were from, they absolutely knew the trade request was for you. Shame on them. You reap what you sow.
Pretty sure they knew it was us, but even the local dealer basically said without saying it that they were assholes - he did say they were completely crazy and unreasonable. I’m a little disappointed as it means a few extra K out of our pockets but glad to screw them. ?
Do not ever try to do business with Palmen motors in Kenosha. I think we’ve crossed Belzer’s off the list for the future too.
Make sure to write reviews of your experience online so others are aware. Don't exaggerate, but tell people exactly what happened and how that made you feel.
Isn’t sharing that here enough? 
I am all about making people pay for being assholes and giving credit to those who go the extra mile.
I also rely heavily on customer reviews.
No year of the deal so another WAG would be a true Shelby American, a blue GT 350. Blue also was a preferred color.
Edit: After seeing the hint there simply were only a few Wankel engined cars.
I was going to say Mustang but don't really remember seeing blue ones. Then again, I'm not a resident senior so maybe my guess doesn't count. In any case, $8K for a new sports car. This has to go a ways back.
I had a blue 1966 Mustang. 289 engine, went like hell.
I went with my wife to help her pick out glasses today and a kindergarten aged girl was picking up her first pair of glasses. As she put them on she expressed her amazement to “see the glasses” at the far end of the store.
I can only imagine how neat it will be for her to notice things she’s never been able to see before.
I went with my wife to help her pick out glasses today and a kindergarten aged girl was picking up her first pair of glasses. As she put them on she expressed her amazement to “see the glasses” at the far end of the store.
I can only imagine how neat it will be for her to notice things she’s never been able to see before.
I could watch the videos that show people 1. Putting on properly prescribed glasses, 2. Glasses that enable the colorblind to see color, or 3. Have an ear implant turned on for the first time all day.
I'd be a complete mess, but a good mess.
I just can't imagine the rush caused by finally sensing something you know others have been.
I went with my wife to help her pick out glasses today and a kindergarten aged girl was picking up her first pair of glasses. As she put them on she expressed her amazement to “see the glasses” at the far end of the store.
I can only imagine how neat it will be for her to notice things she’s never been able to see before.
I could watch the videos that show people 1. Putting on properly prescribed glasses, 2. Glasses that enable the colorblind to see color, or 3. Have an ear implant turned on for the first time all day.
I'd be a complete mess, but a good mess.
I just can't imagine the rush caused by finally sensing something you know others have been.
There are very cool videos out there of people (especially kids) achieving full site or hearing for the very first time. Enough to kick up clouds of dust. I am sure GE amongst all of us has witnessed that first hand.
I’ve seen the same things with people who have trembles or other things like Parkinson’s. When they turn the device on and you see the instant difference it’s hard to keep the room from getting dusty
When Youngest Eagle had her Cochlear Implants activated she just giggled, especially during the first one. I was a puddle. One of the most amazing experiences I’ve ever had. She got her first implant as a HS sophomore and her second during her senior year. She’s now in grad school for Library Science and working 80% as a librarian for SPPL. The kid is amazing
“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”
― Christopher Moore, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
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When Youngest Eagle had her Cochlear Implants activated she just giggled, especially during the first one. I was a puddle. One of the most amazing experiences I’ve ever had. She got her first implant as a HS sophomore and her second during her senior year. She’s now in grad school for Library Science and working 80% as a librarian for SPPL. The kid is amazing
It's an amazing story, Sean. I've never met her yet the story still puts a lump in my throat. Happy for you all.