0:10 This is the Gopher Puck Live Podcast with Hammy, Vegoe and your host Jupiter. 0:37 Good evening, and welcome to The GPL Podcast, along with Hammeh and soon-to-be Vegoe. 0:45 I am your host, Jupiter. 0:47 Vegoe's having a few little kid problems, trying to get him to bed, so he'll be joining us in a few minutes. 0:52 But as always, Hammeh is here, and Hammeh, before we started, you were saying you wanted a bitch. 1:00 Oh, well, I mean, I know that, I'm sure. 1:03 I mean, there's nothing I had specific on my mind, just, you know, the usual stuff we deal with, unfortunately, this season, most weeks. 1:13 Are you talking about the inconsistent play by our Gophers? 1:17 Yeah, that would probably be a pretty accurate description of it. 1:21 Well, obviously, your thoughts from last week about Mr. 1:27 Wilcox being injured came to fruition Thursday night when Nick Lehr made his first starting appearance as a gopher. 1:35 And boy, was it ugly in the first ten minutes. 1:39 Yeah, it wasn't exactly a stellar start to the college career. 1:44 I mean, for the most part, those weren't exactly what you would call grade A situations for the other team. 1:52 I mean, they were just not good goals to be letting in. 1:54 And yeah, I was a little concerned. 1:57 I mean, you know, frankly, I was like, well, this is kind of the bind they put themselves in. 2:03 They played Wilcox pretty much all year, obviously, for a reason. 2:06 But they didn't really, I think, I don't know. 2:10 I just don't feel like they necessarily had the backup situation well planned for this year or so. 2:16 And it kind of makes you concerned about the future to some extent. 2:20 Well, to Nick Lehr's credit, though, he did settle down. 2:23 And the boys in front of him stepped up their game. 2:27 I mean, after his little talk with Lucia, after letting in three of the first four shots, the boys finally said, enough is enough. 2:35 And he kind of calmed down, started making some saves, started building some confidence. 2:40 And obviously, The Gophers scored the next five goals. 2:43 Well, yeah, I mean, you can't argue that. 2:45 They certainly answered the bell once they kind of got down. 2:48 Of course, I mean, I think the reality of the matter is, is that you kind of have to look at who you're playing to. 2:53 I mean, most any good team, you're probably not going to recover from a 3-0 deficit in the first, what, 10 minutes of the game. 3:02 So in that sense, we're a little fortunate. 3:04 But yeah, you have to give the guys credit for fighting back and taking the lead later in the game. 3:14 You there, Jupe? 3:16 Now joining us, Mr. 3:18 Vegoe. 3:19 Sorry, I paused there for a second. 3:21 I had it muted. 3:22 Very dramatic pause. 3:23 Yeah, sorry about that. 3:24 That's what I get for pausing it. 3:25 But I'm a little under the weather. 3:26 I've been sneezing and stuff. 3:28 So I muted it and blah, blah, blah. 3:30 Here we go. 3:30 Well, we were just talking, Veegs, about kind of a rough start for Mr. 3:35 Nick Lehr, Thursday night. 3:37 But he recovered well and the boys in front of him started to play. 3:41 Yeah, real shaky. 3:42 I think the first goal, it was through traffic. 3:45 He didn't really get a good luck at it. 3:47 I'm sure that was frustrating to him. 3:50 And then he just didn't recover on the next couple of shots. 3:53 One of them was a wraparound. 3:54 It looked like it might have gone off his defenseman's stick on its way in, but just a real rocky start for him. 4:01 It was good that the team was able to force some poor shots that could just hit him right in the middle of the chest. 4:07 And he did get settled down and actually made some nice saves coming down the stretch. 4:12 And I think that was kind of key because, you know, that e that game could have eat. 4:17 Oops, sorry, I hit the wrong button again. 4:21 I'm just I'm out of it. 4:22 I'm sorry. 4:23 Well, like I was saying that, you know, that game could have gotten out of hand pretty quickly if he didn't settle down. 4:29 I mean, it was three nothing pretty quick. 4:31 You know, that game gets to four nothing, five nothing. 4:34 It gets ugly real quick. 4:37 Yeah, it was I mean, it was really important for them to sell down and not have to worry about having a complete lack of faith in your goaltender. 4:45 You know, when he made a few saves, because we've seen that with The Wild this season, is when they had that poor goaltending stretch. 4:50 It just totally changes the way you play the game. 4:53 It's hard enough, you know, playing from behind. 4:55 It's hard enough, you know, chasing the game. 4:58 But, you know, when you know you can't give up any kind of quality shots at your own end, you know, it makes it hard. 5:06 You know, I have to admit that I'm a little surprised they came back simply for the fact that I had heard earlier in the year that they weren't particularly confident in what was behind Eric's Hauser, behind Wilcox. 5:20 I'm thinking of Hauser because I saw that stuff on GPL earlier today. 5:23 But anyways. 5:25 All Hauser's fault, didn't you know it? 5:27 Yeah. 5:27 But, you know, they weren't really feeling confident about what was behind Wilcox. 5:31 And so which was kind of obvious considering the coaches basically never played anybody but Wilcox. 5:36 But so I'm a little surprised that they managed to kind of show enough confidence to fire back on that in that first game. 5:46 Well, it's something we hadn't seen much this season. 5:48 So it was kind of nice that, you know, getting that many goals by Mr. 5:52 Hildebrandt is pretty impressive. 5:55 But on the flip side, Friday night comes along and Wilcox back in the net. 6:03 Okay, that's good. 6:05 Down again early. 6:06 What was it? 6:06 Two-nothing in that game? 6:10 Something like that. 6:11 It was 3-1 is what we were down in, like, early enough. 6:14 They didn't, you know, they got behind again, but this time they just had nothing. 6:20 Couldn't come back, couldn't do anything. 6:23 Well, yeah, I mean, to me, I was going to say that it's a microcosm of the season for me, the way that- 6:30 The inconsistency? 6:31 Well, right. 6:32 I mean, I just think that, you know, this team, it's not a talent, lack of talent, and it's not the coaching because we've got good coaches. 6:41 It's just a matter of they just, for one reason or another, aren't putting it together on a consistent basis. 6:46 Now, I know that we played better in the last month or so, but I think part of that, you really have to look at the competition you're playing. 6:53 I think other than Michigan, it's not like we've been playing great, you know, NCAA quality, you know, as far as play-outs go, types of teams other than Michigan, and so that's a part of the equation, but they just, it's frustrating because they're, the talent is there, but they're just not pulling it together mentally and, you know, the energy level wasn't there. 7:14 And because of that, Veegs, Michigan State is still two points behind us, definitely within striking distance. 7:20 Michigan is now three points clear of us, and you know, Penn State's fading, but Veegs, it's still going to be tight here down at the end. 7:31 Yeah, it's going to be really tight, and I think it's important for Minnesota to finish in the top two. 7:37 If they have hopes of winning the Big Ten tournament, they want to be one of the top two seeds, and you know, it's harder if they're not. 7:46 I think the problem on Friday night was, you know, you had a lot of guys who were thinking they were going to do it by themselves, and it doesn't work too often when you're playing against talented players on the other side of the bench, and you know, you can't beat everybody one on one, and so, you know, they just were not working together when they did have possession, they just were unable to generate quality scoring chances when they needed it. 8:11 But yet again, power play came through for them in the third period and gave them a chance. 8:15 When those five guys are out on the ice, they look pretty darn good. 8:20 Yeah, gave them a chance, but then obviously a stupid penalty late ended up costing them a chance of possibly tying that game, Hammeh. 8:30 Yeah, Hudson Fashing, I took a bad one and at that point in the game, you really have to be very careful and it's inexcusable. 8:41 He's not a freshman. 8:42 It's not one of those things anymore where you can use inexperiences as the excuse. 8:47 So it's unfortunate, it costs the team a bit. 8:50 I mean, there's no guarantee they come back to tie it, but you're basically screwing yourself over completely when you get a penalty late and you're going to be essentially on the penalty kill for the rest of the game. 9:02 Well, being between the benches in the second period, Friday evening, let's just say Mr. 9:10 Gensel was a bit, let's say, not really safe for broadcast air, what he was saying. 9:19 Pretty much saying, you know, when you guys start effing playing, I'll start effing coaching. 9:24 So he was not happy with their effort, especially that second game. 9:30 Well, the reality is that when you're getting out shot to the level that they were, you know, by a team that, let's face it, they're not as talented. 9:39 Michigan State is not an offensive juggernaut at all. 9:42 And to just be that lackluster, especially a night after you've come back and scored five straight goals, you know, and you had your backup goal, I mean, it's just like an all around, like I said, it's a microcosm of the season for me. 9:54 It just, you don't know what the hell's going on with some of these guys. 9:58 You know, with a few exceptions up and down the lineup, I don't know that any guy can look in the mirror and say, yeah, I exceeded expectations this year. 10:06 There's a few guys, but not many. 10:08 And that's to me a telltale sign of an underachieving team. 10:13 Yeah, well, it was definitely disappointing, disappointing. 10:16 Right now, it's pretty much, you know, Michigan's kind of in the driver's seat to win the league. 10:22 I mean, they're up by three points. 10:25 Most likely, they'll have the tiebreaker just because the way that, you know, that goes by conference wins first. 10:31 So, but Minnesota really has no one to blame but themselves. 10:35 I mean, if you want to win the league, you got to win those games like that, especially the second game in Michigan State. 10:41 After you, you know, that terrible start Thursday night, and you kind of triumph, score five goals on this high, and then you just come crashing down. 10:50 And I agree with you, Hammeh, it is a mega-cosm of the season and it sucks. 10:57 It just does. 10:57 I mean, we keep thinking they've just turned the corner and then they do this kind of crap. 11:02 Well, I mean, I think the thing that it really bothers me is like, you know that right now because of how we played at other parts of the season, you're margin for error is just not very big and you can't be screwing these kinds of games up. 11:16 I mean, we're fortunate that it really... 11:18 We don't know in the end what's going to be that one killer blow as far as pairwise goes if you don't make it. 11:24 But these are the kinds of games that really can be the difference makers when you're playing a team that's kind of real down low and you lose a game out of home ice. 11:33 I mean, not that that matters more in a pairwise, but nonetheless, those are the games you're supposed to win on home ice against teams that you're clearly better than and you screw the pooch on it. 11:42 I mean, that's just very frustrating from a fan perspective. 11:46 Well, Veegs, we've seen in the past that one game can cost this team. 11:51 It was just four or five years ago that Minnesota was right on the bubble as a pairwise number. 12:00 Literally, I think it was either late season, overtime loss or tie or something like that at Michigan Tech that cost them a spot in the national tournament. 12:10 Yeah, it's funny the way the pairwise works because you don't get any benefit for being a brand school. 12:17 In college football, you can get the benefit of the doubt if you're Alabama or Ohio State. 12:24 They might put you in there even if you don't deserve it. 12:26 But in college hockey with pairwise, it's pretty cut and dry who they put in and out. 12:31 If they're upset in the tournaments, they're not in good shape even if they do finish out well. 12:37 Definitely, definitely. 12:39 Hammey, I saw today that there's a new commitment for Minnesota, a forward, but it was his name, Darian Romanco? 12:49 Yeah, it's a local kid. 12:51 He's playing in the North American League. 12:54 He's kind of an older guy. 12:56 I know that- 12:57 Role player type of guy? 12:59 Well, people were kind of saying that, I mean, I saw some people talking about, is this because of an early departure risk or whatever, but I think that people need to kind of recognize that these are not the kinds of guys you bring in because you're going to worry about early departures. 13:15 You kind of plan ahead for early departures with very high skill types of guys. 13:21 These are the kinds of guys that are real depth types of players, like Jared Larson was years ago or kind of like Robin Hoagland would be for the Gophers now or whatever. 13:31 So, you know, I think one of the things that people need to realize are from a fan perspective, most fans are looking at the current season and maybe one season ahead, but the coaching staff obviously has to look at things strategically two to three years out. 13:46 And I think once Brock Besser decided he's going to North Dakota, they had to say to themselves, OK, well, there's nobody else out there that's going to be available that's going to be of equal talent, so maybe what we need to do is kind of worry about the depth for next year and then maybe take what we would have used on Besser and try to get a high caliber guy for 2016. 14:07 So I just think it's one of those kinds of situations where you can't really read into it other than that. 14:12 So is he a next year type of guy? 14:15 Yeah, well, he's 20 already. 14:17 Yeah, I have no idea. 14:18 I just saw his name and that's all I knew. 14:21 Yeah, I mean, he's a Moundsview guy, I think, back in high school. 14:26 Yeah, so it's just one of those things where I think you have a guy that's showing some, you know, he scored some goals. 14:31 He's done all right this year in the North American League. 14:34 And, you know, he's a local kid. 14:36 So you're not going to be spending much, if anything, on him. 14:40 And it gives him an opportunity to play potentially a decent role at home. 14:45 I don't suspect he'll get tons of ice time. 14:47 But, you know, it gives them kind of a cheap option to fill out some of the depth. 14:52 And you kind of hope that maybe one of these guys will come in and surprise you and do better than you expect. 14:57 And so it's kind of a low risk situation. 15:00 Well, that's the kind of guys we need. 15:02 I think we were kind of lacking that this year is those role players who slowly build up to being a senior and get better every year at that job. 15:12 And that's one thing we're kind of missing. 15:15 At least I think we are. 15:16 Well, I think we're missing it all throughout the line up, quite frankly. 15:20 I mean, other than, I mean, if you think about it, I was thinking about it today. 15:24 When you look at our team, I don't know that you can say many of these guys, especially from an upperclassman point of view, have clearly gotten a lot better over the course of their college career. 15:34 I mean, Travis Boyd clearly is a lot better than what he was like two years ago. 15:39 That's kind of what you want to see out of guys that are juniors and seniors that are clearly better than what they were when they first came into college. 15:46 I mean, even Kyle Rowe, to be honest, in my opinion, I don't see a tremendous amount of difference between what he was as a freshman and a sophomore compared to what he is now. 15:56 I mean, I think obviously he's going to be stronger, and I'm not saying he's not better at all. 16:02 But as far as a production standpoint, I mean, you're not really seeing a guy who is like Boyd, for instance, his shot on the power play is clearly improved. 16:12 He's worked on that one timer, and it's made a difference for him. 16:15 You don't see that kind of change in Kyle Rowe. 16:17 It's still the same kind of garbage goal types of stuff. 16:21 And you'd kind of like to see more guys improve like Boyd has. 16:25 And we just haven't seen that, I don't think, this year. 16:28 It's almost too bad that we didn't get Boyd a year later than we had. 16:32 Hadn't he planned to kind of come in one more year later? 16:35 Because he was pretty young when he came in, wasn't he? 16:37 Well, he accelerated, and he was in the US program. 16:40 I mean, you know, I think we all agree that ideally, you would want a guy to get maybe one year post-high school and junior hockey. 16:51 I mean, we all, I think, acknowledge that. 16:53 But the reality of the matter is, is there are certain players that that's just not going to happen. 16:58 Otherwise, if you try to push them that route, they might just say, screw it, I'm going to go over to school B and play there right away, because they're offering me that opportunity. 17:08 So you kind of have to weigh the pros and cons based on the particular player. 17:12 And, you know, I think in hindsight, I remember I used to talk about this with Ben Gordon. 17:18 I think that he would have been a much better college player if he had played just one more year of junior hockey, because he started to really play a little bit better in his junior, senior years. 17:27 And you just, you kind of feel like there's some unfulfilled promise there when they come in early and just don't quite hit their stride till really late. 17:34 Unfortunately, that's just the problem we have here at Minnesota. 17:38 I mean, you get all these kids that are going to be good, blah, blah, blah, but you really have to take them early or else they're going to go somewhere else. 17:46 Well, I do think with the guys coming out of the development program, if they're on that last year, the U18 team, it seems like most of those guys don't want to go play somewhere else before going to college. 17:58 And so sometimes I think they kind of get forced into going into college as well. 18:03 I think that's happening to Taychuk, why he decommitted to Notre Dame. 18:07 He wasn't ready to get into that level either academically by accelerating and he didn't want to go somewhere next year. 18:15 See, but that to me is unfortunate because we've had a couple of players on the Gophers over the years that actually did have that same situation and did go play junior hockey after the US program. 18:26 Keith Ballard, perfect example. 18:28 I believe that, I'm pretty sure Jake Fleming did that as well. 18:33 I think they both played at Omaha if I remember correctly. 18:37 So those are the types of guys that, you know, I mean, granted they're not, Ballard was certainly a high-profile pro prospect, but Fleming wasn't. 18:45 So I mean, some of these guys, you would think, like they would think a little bit more deeply about this stuff and it's not always such a rush, you know. 18:52 You can take some time. 18:53 You're not going to make the NHL most of these guys at age 20 or 21. 18:57 So you might as well get that extra year in and enjoy some of the process. 19:02 Well, boys, we're coming down to the last two weekends of Big Ten play. 19:07 You know, we have Michigan three points up, Minnesota is at 30, Michigan State close behind with 28 points, Penn State fading with 25 points, and then following up, it's Ohio State and Wisconsin, which are pretty much non-factors. 19:20 But we've got 12 points left or available for the rest of the year. 19:26 Do you guys see anything really changing up at the top? 19:29 You know, right now, I'm seeing Michigan and Minnesota, and even Michigan State kind of all staying there. 19:34 What do you think, Veegs? 19:37 Well, you know, it's kind of surprising. 19:39 We thought Minnesota might, you know, run away with it. 19:43 So it's hard to say. 19:44 I mean, you know, Michigan has not played perfect hockey. 19:48 They do have five losses, and they have this home and home game with Michigan State to end the season. 19:54 So there's a chance that they could drop a game and open the door for Minnesota. 19:59 And the same thing with Minnesota playing Michigan State, you know, they've got this weird series coming up at Ohio State with the early games. 20:06 You know, if Minnesota were to drop a game there, it opens the door to Michigan State. 20:10 So the way things have played out this year, I would not be surprised by anything. 20:15 I expect Minnesota to win out, but it's so hard because if, you know, they run into a goalie and start forcing play or fall behind, it's tough to catch up. 20:25 Hammeh, I was a bit surprised that Ohio State swept Penn State last weekend. 20:31 Yeah, I mean, I can't say that, you know, I mean, I suppose, well, that was a road series for Penn State, wasn't it? 20:39 I believe it was. 20:39 I don't remember. 20:40 And I don't, I never really saw Penn State as a great road team. 20:44 They seem to do real well in their friendly confines, but I don't know that they've been a really a great road team, although you can't exactly say that Ohio State's been great this year either. 20:53 So, I just think it's one of those things where from week to week, when you have certain teams playing each other, it just, you just don't know what's going to happen. 21:03 So, I don't know. 21:05 I'm surprised that they got swept, but I'm not surprised that Ohio State took some points out of that series. 21:11 Thoughts on that, Veegs? 21:13 No, I agree, Ohio State's got some talent with their top line, and if they can generate some points from those guys, it keeps them in the game. 21:24 Penn State, they don't look like a fast team, they look like a physical team, so I can see it being a tough game when they start giving up goals like that. 21:34 I think they gave up five both nights. 21:37 Don't see Penn State pulling out six very often. 21:41 That leaves us to Minnesota and Ohio State this weekend, in that strange 4 p.m. 21:48 Friday game on ESPNU, Yippee Skippy, and 5 p.m. 21:53 Saturday on ESPN News. 21:57 Let's just hope that there's not 10 minutes of a period interrupted so we don't have a meltdown of a bunch of babies. 22:05 That's maybe why they went so early, so they didn't do that. 22:08 Well, at least we didn't see the three goals against Minnesota last Thursday night. 22:13 What a big whamfest that was. 22:15 Good God. 22:18 I know. 22:19 I just let it go. 22:22 I was trying to Tweet at the same time, and I just can't really do that on my smart phone. 22:26 Watch it and Tweet at the same time, so I just listened to the audio. 22:31 Looks like we didn't really miss much anyway. 22:33 So, well, obviously, Ohio State, Minnesota swept them earlier this month, or actually earlier February, 6-2 and 4-2 at Mariucci. 22:45 Now, we head to Ohio State, and that place is just a morgue, Vig's. 22:52 Yeah, they struggle with numbers. 22:53 They're hot. 22:55 They need to get on campus. 22:57 Well, I mean, they do have the campus rink where they can practice, the shield, but they have a hard time getting in there because they share it with so many other sports. 23:07 It's just not great when you have a huge arena and you only have 4, 5,000 people showing up. 23:13 It's not good for the game. 23:15 You get a rink like Penn State has, and you put 4, 5,000 people there. 23:19 It's atmosphere. 23:20 It's just like some of the tournament games. 23:22 If you put them in Ritter, it's great, but if you put them in empty Excel, it's not as much fun. 23:27 So I think that's a hard thing for that program to overcome. 23:32 I don't think they're ever going to be a program that's going to draw 10, 11,000. 23:37 So it's something they need to address. 23:40 Well, and I think that's, if I had to guess, I would imagine that Osikie, that was one of the things that he probably, you know, was probably looking for was more investment. 23:47 And certainly, you know, when you see a Penn State coming in and they have this great rink right out of the gate, it's not exactly like Ohio State's hurting for money, especially given football and whatever else they're involved in at our successful basketball. 24:01 They're not a place that's hurting for money. 24:03 You would think they'd be able to invest not necessarily $80 million, of course, but enough to put together a nice rink of, you know, 5, 6,000 people and be a little bit more in line with what they get for a fan base. 24:20 It would definitely help their program because obviously, playing in that kind of building right now, sure, it's great when you're good, but unless you're filling that place, it's got to be kind of diseased. 24:32 I mean, I wouldn't enjoy going there. 24:34 Have you ever made that trip, Veegs? 24:36 No, I haven't. 24:37 A few people made it. 24:38 I know when it was a, I know they went like, was about 10 years ago when Minnesota had a road series out there, and it was the same, nobody there. 24:47 Easy to get tickets apparently. 24:49 Well, it's just, it's sort of like what we're seeing with Wisconsin more and more now is like, I mean, they have a bigger place and unless there's certain teams in town, I mean, it's not looking good, because they just don't pack it in quite like they used to and probably won't moving forward. 25:07 Yeah, but that's Wisconsin. 25:10 But at least they've had some fan following in the past, even if, yeah, they did. 25:15 Wisconsin led the league for what, 20 or 30 years. 25:19 They might not be knowledgeable, but they were showing up and the fact, obviously, back then, in the past 20, 30 years, Wisconsin also played a much better brand of hockey, too. 25:29 I mean, Jeff Sauer wasn't a locked down, boring ass, you know, type of game he had going out there. 25:38 Well, yeah, they definitely had a little bit more of an offensive flair to them back, or at least for the most part. 25:42 I mean, it was probably fading a bit because of the lack of talent, you know, as he got close to getting, showing the gate, but nonetheless, they played it over the years under him, a pretty high flying style. 25:55 So yeah, you have to have an appreciation for that. 25:58 One thing I think we can look for this weekend that didn't happen against Michigan State, Vig, is it looks like Mr. 26:04 Lucia is going to pass our favorite, Doug Woog, in most wins as a Gopher hockey coach. 26:11 Right now, they're both tied with 390 victories. 26:15 The Wooger is going to be passed. 26:17 Yeah, and it's too bad. 26:18 I mean, I grew up watching Wooger hockey and seeing him is super animated on the bench and some fiery squads at the old arena. 26:28 He was a heck of a coach. 26:30 It's too bad that someone's got to pass him, but Lucia has had plenty of success. 26:34 I think Lucia has really done a good job developing talent over the years. 26:38 And the two national titles are a big deal for him. 26:43 I think we're going to have him for a little while yet. 26:47 I think you're right. 26:49 Obviously, the fans get down on him when the team's playing bad. 26:52 But a lot of times we don't hear what's going on in the locker room. 26:58 Or is it the players or the coaches? 27:00 Like I said, I heard Gensel saying, you guys start playing, I'll start coaching. 27:05 So we just never know what's going on. 27:08 But in the big scheme of things, obviously Lucia has done a great job. 27:13 You know, it's taken him a couple more years to get to 390. 27:18 But you know what? 27:19 He's brought home two titles. 27:21 And the Wugger just couldn't quite get there. 27:24 Well, I think to me, a season like this season, everybody has to look in the mirror and take a little bit of the responsibility. 27:31 And whether you're a player, certainly the coaches aren't infallible. 27:37 So I think that you have to look at it. 27:38 Things from Don Lucia, what could he do differently? 27:41 Mike Gensel, all the way down. 27:44 You know, what could everybody have done differently? 27:46 And I don't think anybody can really escape criticism. 27:49 But ultimately, for me, I think Don Lucia, as much as I've criticized at times, I think he's certainly a top five to top ten coach in college hockey. 27:59 I think Gensel is a top five to top ten assistant coach in college hockey. 28:03 Those guys know what the hell they're doing. 28:05 They've had a lot of great players come through their program that have gone on to great success on other levels. 28:11 And granted, when you're recruiting high end talent, you're naturally going to have players that make the NHL, whether it's just a matter of where they end up playing college. 28:20 So I don't want to overstate that. 28:22 But nonetheless, they help the progress along for a lot of these guys. 28:25 And they know what they're doing. 28:26 A lot of All-Americans, Hobie Baker. 28:30 So, I mean, they know what they're doing. 28:32 But I think for me this year, it really comes down to the players and them putting things together. 28:37 And I just think something's missing there. 28:42 I would agree with you on that point. 28:46 Back to Lucia and all the 390 victories, I think one of the issues that Lucia has always had, he just doesn't quite have the same personality that the Wugger has. 28:59 And I think that's one of his little downfalls, not as well liked as the Wugger, even when Luger is a coach, he was the Wugger. 29:08 And I think that's been kind of one of the things that people have been a little quicker on the trigger to say get rid of Lucia. 29:15 Because he's just, he's not the Wugger, he's not that kind of guy. 29:21 Well, I think the other thing though is people do tend to forget that Wug wasn't exactly without critics and everything towards the end. 29:29 I think what it really is is that everybody saw how Wug was when he was broadcasting games with Frank Mazocco and they had some chemistry and they would joke around and Wug would certainly have his funny stories or funny sayings. 29:42 And those are the things that are more fresh in people's memories. 29:45 They tend to forget a little bit about, you know, that he was being criticized for whether it was recruiting practices and always just going for the Minnesota high school player and not really adapting to the times and things of that nature. 29:58 So he had his fair share of critics. 30:01 But I think people remember how fun Wug was on the TV. 30:05 So that's kind of, you know, airbrushed some things out from when his coaching days. 30:10 And plus, you know, the Wugger stayed involved with the program. 30:13 Obviously, he's been working, you know, behind the scenes. 30:15 I think personally with Learfield and just sort of some of that stuff, you know, since he's been gone. 30:21 So he's been there. 30:23 He's been visible along, obviously, doing the color commentary, but he's still involved with the program. 30:28 I don't know if I'll see Lucia doing that in the future, because, you know, obviously Lucia came in. 30:33 He didn't go to Minnesota, blah, blah, blah, whatever people like to say. 30:37 But everyone's always going to have a fondness for Lucia, or for Wugger just because, you know, he played for Minnesota. 30:44 He's that Minnesota guy. 30:46 And that's just the way it's going to be. 30:50 I would agree. 30:50 And I think the other thing, it sort of depends on, you know, how does Don Lucia transition out of the job? 30:58 You know, is it going to be a case where do they bring him into a more of an administrative role at the school, and he sticks around for that reason? 31:07 You know, if that's the case, then I could see him being similar to Wug in that sense. 31:13 He might not have Wug's personality, but let's face it, he's still a well-known face. 31:18 You know, locally and in the hockey community, so he could certainly help with a lot of different areas just outside of, from a general athletic department standpoint. 31:28 So, I guess it just really depends on what he wants to do when he transitions out of the job and whenever that might be. 31:37 Quick question for you guys, which might not be quick, but Veegs, what are your thoughts on Miss Shannon Miller at Duluth's women's team getting the boot? 31:48 Well, I think anytime you're in a high profile executive position, like being a head coach where you're making six figure salaries, you work at the pleasure of your AD. 32:00 If you're one of the top people in a field like that, if you don't get along with that AD, they can let you go. 32:07 That is the price of doing business in sports like that. 32:11 I don't get all this discrimination, Title IX stuff, maybe it's there. 32:17 But at the same point, this isn't a union job. 32:21 This is a job where the contracts get renewed. 32:24 I think the only mistake maybe is that the Duluth AD said it was because of money. 32:29 If he doesn't say that, just says we want to go a different direction, they're probably in better shape right now. 32:35 I think Glenn Mason was on Berero talking about college football coaches earlier this fall, and he said, as a coach, if they want to fire me, I don't really care why they're letting me go. 32:47 They paid me plenty of money to do that job, and if I'm good enough, I'm going to find another one. 32:53 Yeah, I guess I wasn't too... 32:56 Obviously, drunk hockey has been going against her big time, and usually I disagree with him with a lot of things. 33:03 But I think in this case, he's got a point. 33:05 I mean, some of the topics that Shannon Miller is bringing up, you know, talking about, oh, this is discrimination, I'm not making as much as Sandalyn, blah, blah, blah. 33:15 Obviously, she was making more than Sandalyn for many years, but she kind of forgets that fact. 33:22 And personally, I think they're just getting rid of her because she's an asshole. 33:30 I mean, they're not firing her or getting rid of her because she's gay. 33:34 They don't care. 33:35 They don't care if she's female. 33:38 Basically, you know, we've all worked for people who are jerks and assholes. 33:43 And you can only take so much of it until, you know what? 33:47 You're not winning for us anymore. 33:48 We're sick of putting up with your crap. 33:51 And I kind of think that's what they're really doing. 33:53 They would never say that. 33:54 That's my personal opinion. 33:55 I don't, you know, whatever. 33:57 But you know what? 33:59 You can only work with an asshole so long before, you know, you can say enough is enough. 34:03 So that's kind of my thoughts on it. 34:05 Obviously they're saying it's financial, but I really think they're just sick of her being a jerk. 34:09 They would have just been better off just saying, we don't comment on it and let it go. 34:13 Now they've got the legislature involved, the governor involved. 34:17 Which is a complete farce. 34:19 That's, yeah, to me, that's just political bullshit. 34:21 That's just people trying to look from a PR perspective, like they care and whatever. 34:27 The reality is, is they need to keep their nose out of that kind of stuff. 34:30 It's, I understand that it's a school and therefore they get tax dollars and whatever, but nonetheless, those are the kinds of decisions. 34:38 Just, you know, worry about stuff that affects the state, not these individual situations. 34:43 And you know what? 34:44 Duluth followed the contract exactly the way they were supposed to. 34:47 They were supposed to inform her six months before they entered her contract that they were not going to renew. 34:53 They did that. 34:54 And personally, I don't think they even need a reason. 34:57 Yeah, they don't. 34:59 I mean, legally, in Minnesota, you could be let go for no reason. 35:04 That's just the way things are. 35:06 The reality is for me, first of all, the whole complaining about money issues and comparing yourself to the men's hockey coach. 35:15 Look, it's all market factors. 35:17 I mean, that's what people need to realize here. 35:20 You're paying based on what the market is for that particular kind of role. 35:23 And let's be honest, you're talking about a non-revenue sport for UMD, even women's hockey. 35:31 I don't know what they do for men's. 35:32 I think they still lose for men's, but nonetheless. 35:34 It's getting better. 35:36 But nonetheless, I mean, that's a financial driver. 35:39 So that's gonna play a role in it. 35:40 And you have to look at what the market is for men's hockey coaches to be a top 10 or top 20 type of men's hockey coach. 35:49 You're gonna pay more money than what you're gonna get, probably, for a close to the top of the tier female hockey coach. 35:57 So, or I should say women's hockey. 36:00 I mean, you're talking men or women that are head hockey coaches in women's hockey. 36:04 So I think you kind of have to put it in that perspective. 36:08 She's done lousy against North Dakota and Wisconsin and Minnesota in recent years. 36:14 I mean, I think she's won, like, what, one or two games. 36:16 Beyond lousy. 36:18 It's been bad. 36:18 It's been just awful, and, you know, her contract was done under the context of when she was really being successful, and they were winning championships or at least being near that type of a situation. 36:32 And what, have they missed the NCAAs for how many years in a row now? 36:36 And they certainly haven't been a real major contender. 36:38 And why would anybody want to continue to pay for that? 36:41 I mean, it's not rare in college sports to be a coach that had a great run of success, and then mediocrity, and you get canned. 36:51 It's not a rare thing in sports for that to happen. 36:54 And it's like to me, to say it's because you're a woman, or to say it's because you're, you know, gay, I just think that that's ridiculous. 37:02 I mean, if that were the case, why would they have hired you in the first place? 37:06 I mean, I know that they had a different administrator at the time, but nonetheless, it's kind of like they didn't have to keep you if that was really their reasoning. 37:15 You know, they could have let her go a year ago and ate the money. 37:17 I mean, there could have been a lot of reasons. 37:20 So I just think that they made a financial decision. 37:23 You guys are right. 37:23 They probably should have just kept their yap shut and just said, we don't comment on personnel decisions. 37:30 We just think that this is the right move for our school moving forward and for our program and leave it at that. 37:36 But they might have just didn't quite take the right way of doing it. 37:40 And now they're facing some heat for it. 37:43 And it's unfortunate because I think it's going to put heat on the men's team there too because people are going to continue to look at them and say, well, if they're not succeeding to the level that they should, what's going to happen to their coach? 37:55 Why isn't their coach being fired or let go? 37:57 Which is crap because obviously Sandlin has done an excellent job. 38:01 He's built that program up. 38:02 He got them a national title, which is a pretty big deal. 38:07 Right. 38:08 But I'm just saying that that's it's only inevitably the people who are whining about this, because let's face it, they're going to look for any excuse to complain. 38:16 And they're going to look at things like that and raise a stink about how come he gets to keep his job. 38:22 Why isn't he having the force to get a pay cut? 38:24 Or why isn't their program getting cuts or whatever? 38:30 I agree. 38:30 I think one thing that she's done is if she could have gone out quietly, she might have been able to find herself another job, Veegs. 38:38 But right now, I think she's got no chance of coaching in the United States again or Canada. 38:45 Yeah, she's just taking a hard line on this and she's put herself in a position where she's going to be able to travel as much as she wants for a while. 38:55 And it's unfortunate, obviously, that that program's got a lot of history. 38:59 They've won five titles. 39:01 And she was the catalyst for that. 39:03 But you know what? 39:04 What have you done for me lately is basically how things work now. 39:07 And if you're the most expensive coach in women's hockey and you're not showing it, you know, and with results, sorry, that's just the way it goes. 39:19 I mean, that's just the way things work. 39:24 Has nothing to do with your sex, has nothing to do with your sexual preference. 39:28 Get it done or you're gone. 39:31 And that's just the way society is. 39:33 Probably not the greatest thing on, you know, how society is, but it's just the way it is. 39:38 Live with it. 39:39 Move on. 39:40 Go out gracefully and she just has not done that. 39:44 Well, I mean, let's be clear. 39:46 Obviously, in society, there is discrimination. 39:49 Yes, definitely. 39:51 You know, there's legitimate cases where somebody is being discriminated against based on their sex or their, you know, what their sexual orientation is or whatever. 40:01 So obviously, those cases are there. 40:03 This is not that. 40:05 It's really, to me, a big stretch to say that that's their reasoning here when they, there's obviously reasons for them to make the decisions that they are. 40:15 And we've gone over some of them. 40:17 So it's one thing when you're just getting let go and you're at the top of your game and there's no good excuse for it. 40:24 But when you have reasons, and I'm sure there's, like you said, there's reasons that we're probably not even aware of because they're happening behind the scenes and there might be more personality driven. 40:36 You know, at that point it becomes a stretch to use those as excuses. 40:40 Yeah, I think this is definitely way different than the other high profile case was the Katie Brenney case with the U of M women's golf team where there were clear discrimination issues there. 40:52 This is a completely different situation. 40:56 Well, her team is done. 40:59 What a shame. 41:00 And it's too bad because, you know, obviously, I think, you know, by her putting up such a stink probably affected her team down at the stretch there. 41:08 And they were eliminated by Bemidji last weekend. 41:12 So her career at Duluth is already done. 41:16 There's going to be no, you know, WCHA tournament for her and no NCAA tournament. 41:22 It's all over. 41:23 And unfortunately, you know, her players have supported her, which is probably the right thing to do because that's what players do. 41:29 You're going to support your coach when this type of thing happens. 41:32 But unfortunately, it's probably cost them, you know, their season, which is unfortunate because, you know, all this attention to her and I, it's got to be a huge distraction. 41:43 Or it was, I should say. 41:46 But her reign is over. 41:47 We'll see what happens. 41:48 I have a feeling this is going to be dragged into the courts, which is very unfortunate because talk about wasting money right there. 41:56 That is a huge waste of money. 41:59 But that's enough of that, guys. 42:00 What else do you want to talk about? 42:01 Are we good to go for this week? 42:02 You think it's a sweep of Ohio State at Ohio State or not? 42:06 Veegs. 42:08 Gosh, I hope so. 42:10 It's so hard to know what's going to happen with this team lately. 42:13 You know, they definitely have the talent where they can do it. 42:17 I think one of the things with Ohio State, you know, besides the Fritz-Greco line, you know, they don't have a lot of foot speed, especially on the back end. 42:26 I think Minnesota can play, you know, a one-on-one game and probably get away with it. 42:32 So, they should be able to get the six points. 42:35 And yes, folks, Friday's game starts at 4 p.m. 42:39 Central Time. 42:40 I'm pretty sure you can blame television for that. 42:44 But that is, got 4 p.m. 42:46 on a Friday? 42:46 Are you kidding me, Hammeh? 42:48 We'll have to get Boogie Grass on here to explain how that happens. 42:53 Yeah, I mean, it's unfortunate, but I mean... 42:56 I'm still at work. 42:57 I'm sorry. 42:58 That sucks. 42:58 But you know what? 42:59 If you think about it, though, given that it's state tournament time, there are going to be a lot of people that are probably going to be off hockey fans. 43:07 They're probably going to be off work. 43:08 And once that second game on Friday gets done in the afternoon, it is pretty good timing for them, in a sense, you know, when they hit the bars and whatever, so it might not be quite as bad in this specific instance as it might be in a normal week. 43:23 So how are you picking this weekend? 43:25 You think they can come away with six points? 43:28 Well, I mean, I think they can, but I thought that they should have. 43:31 I mean, if they're not pulling away with six points at home against Michigan State, I don't know that I feel particularly confident they're going to get six on the road against Ohio State. 43:43 I probably say, I think one of the games will probably be like pretty competitive and will probably end up a tie. 43:50 And, you know, of course, we lose the shootout. 43:52 So I'll go with four points. 43:56 I do think the big difference between Michigan State and Ohio State and Penn State coming up is just the speed difference. 44:01 I think it was pretty evident in the series previous against those teams that Minnesota could just outskate them. 44:08 I think in the Michigan State series, you know, that wasn't the case. 44:11 Michigan State could skate with them and they were disciplined enough not to give up a lot. 44:15 So I do think it's kind of a different weekend coming up. 44:21 We can hope so. 44:23 As my dog start barking like crazy behind the door. 44:26 Great. 44:28 All right, boys. 44:29 Well, let's call it for a week then. 44:32 We'll be back next week, hopefully recapping a nice sweep of Ohio State. 44:37 And hopefully we've gotten over all the people bitching about the early times. 44:41 It's just the way it is, folks. 44:43 Get over it. 44:44 Well, well, well, Barry Alvarez's fault, blah, blah, blah, whatever. 44:50 And then we'll also look forward to the very last weekend. 44:54 Penn State coming to Mariuchina for wrapping up the season. 45:01 Hopefully Minnesota will still be close to Michigan or tide or something like that. 45:06 We'll hope. 45:07 We'll just have to wait and see. 45:08 Remember, you can follow Veegs on Twitter at evegoe and hammie at hammiehockey on Twitter. 45:15 Like I said, we'll be back next week to sweep this Ohio or talk about the Ohio State Series. 45:20 Later.