0:08 This is The GPL Podcast, part of the Pulltab Sports family. 0:17 Oh, boy. 0:21 And so, I had to train for this marathon. 0:30 Let's get this bandwagon going, folks, come on. 0:39 I think Bart must be watching upstairs. 0:44 Oh, he's trying to be awake for Thanksgiving tomorrow. 0:48 Duke's roommate's worried. 0:53 Now, here's Jupiter and Vego. 1:06 Good evening, and welcome to The GPL Podcast, episode number 260. 1:13 Well, let's bring in Veegs. 1:15 Good evening, Veegs. 1:16 How are you doing? 1:18 Good evening. 1:19 That bye week came at the right time for me. 1:21 I was busy coaching my kids through district hockey and wrapping up the hockey season with them. 1:28 So I picked up a little late season illness. 1:31 So glad we got the bye week, and now we're ready for the stretch run. 1:35 Well, we are ready for the stretch run. 1:38 But there's also some other controversy going on out there in college hockey world. 1:44 Some people want the regionals to be changed. 1:47 Other people don't want the regionals to be changed. 1:49 So we thought we'd have a discussion tonight about it. 1:54 What do you think, Veegs? 1:56 I think it's great. 1:56 We've got some great answers lined up here. 1:58 Okay, let's bring him in, Adam Wodon and Brad Schlossman. 2:05 Brad, how are you doing? 2:06 You just made it just in time. 2:08 That's right. 2:08 Thanks for holding up for a few minutes, waiting for me. 2:13 Well, nice to have you back, Brad. 2:15 And Adam, you're a first time guest for us. 2:18 Welcome to the show. 2:20 Thanks for having me. 2:21 I had to be here to defend myself after the last month or so. 2:27 Well, I got to see your background. 2:31 I'm going to bring him up here. 2:31 Oh, yeah. 2:32 His background is I hate your sports team. 2:37 So you must just hate everybody. 2:39 And right, you know, teams. 2:42 The thing is, I feel like I love everybody, but, you know, I'm a lover, not a fighter. 2:47 It's everyone else who thinks I hate them. 2:49 So I figured I'd help them out a little bit. 2:53 But if I had, you know, a nickel, as they say, for every time I got accused of hating some team or another, pretty much, I think I'd be up to 60 nickels, you know, one for each team in the country. 3:04 So if you think that there's an East Coast bias or whatever, just ask all the people in the East who think I hate them too. 3:15 Have you been accused of hating Stonehill yet? 3:18 You know, we did rip them a little bit last year. 3:25 That's right. 3:26 What was that about their, no, no, was it them that we were criticizing? 3:30 Well, first of all, last year, I had the hardest time getting a hold of them. 3:35 No one answered. 3:36 I wanted to give them a nice interview like, oh, welcome to the family and we feel for you that you're in this position. 3:42 And for like three months, I've tried to get a hold of them, never did. 3:46 I was like, and then they just kind of went off and had played five games last year. 3:51 I was like, what are they even doing? 3:53 Like, so yeah, I think they did hate me a little bit, but actually had a good chat. 3:57 He was on David Borges was on our podcast just before this season. 4:01 He finally decided that it was okay to talk now that he had a full D1 schedule. 4:04 So was it easier to make him team of the week before they'd played any games yet? 4:10 They just had a two game winning streak. 4:12 So that was our chance, but New Hampshire got it instead. 4:17 I don't know. 4:17 I don't know why. 4:19 Well, well, a lot of people have been against you, Adam. 4:22 But we've got Steve here. 4:24 He says, very good to have you show up and defend yourself against a hostile audience. 4:30 Yes. 4:31 I'm used to Brad. 4:32 I've been arguing with him for 10 years. 4:33 So Eric, on the other hand, was the one who really bugged me. 4:39 And I love it. 4:41 I love you. 4:42 Every time I talk to you, it's totally fine. 4:44 I have no issue. 4:45 But I just I got annoyed only just in particular, the wording that you said that my arguments were disingenuous. 4:54 That's what set me off because I can assure you there's nothing disingenuous about what I'm saying. 4:58 I did admit that I think in my last article that I'm getting to the point. 5:04 It's probably just age that I'm just not as hyped up about this anymore. 5:09 And if whatever happens happens, I think I'll just like be like, whatever. 5:14 But but but the arguments are are genuine. 5:18 I think I think it was on this podcast that I watched that Eric said something in particular. 5:25 I might as well just address what he said. 5:28 I think one of them was about the idea that it was okay to pick teams using the pairwise, but not to not to see them for home ice. 5:43 I take exception to the idea that that's equivalent and that I'm being hypocritical in some way, because I've actually written about this pretty extensively and my history on this topic goes back probably 20 years very consistently saying the same thing. 6:02 Even as this tournament has been neutral site, I've said over and over again that the pairwise is not perfect enough to use the seedings 1 through 16 so religiously. 6:14 Even in terms of like banding the teams that they do, I've always said like what is the difference between 12 and 13? 6:21 You're able to flip around 13 and 16, but you're not able to flip around 12 and 13. 6:25 None of that has ever made any sense to me. 6:28 So, but when you come to pick the teams, there's a very obvious difference and the obvious difference is that the alternative is horrendous. 6:39 The alternative is being in a smoke-filled room like we had during the pandemic year, when you had coaches politicking and lobbying and sending literature to committee members, trying to get in like they were politicking for the Heisman Trophy. 6:54 It was seemingly and ridiculous. 6:57 You don't want to go anywhere near that. 6:59 Now, but to seed the teams, once you've got them, we do have an alternative, which we've been using for 20 years plus, which is the neutral sites. 7:10 That's the distinction to me, but I'm sorry, I'm dominating the time, but I just wanted to get that out there and over with. 7:16 You guys go ahead, but I've been very consistent on that for a long time. 7:21 It has nothing to do necessarily with the fact that this conversation just came up again. 7:26 Well, Veegs, care to respond? 7:29 Well, I just think that the key word for me is Disingenuous because it's self-serving to teams looking for any kind of way to diminish an atmosphere at an NCAA tournament game because I've talked to coaches and they say, yeah, I want to have my best chance to win that game if I'm the three or four seed and they're the one or two seed. 7:51 So picking a neutral site is best for them. 7:54 And you don't think it's best for Minnesota and North Dakota to have home games in the NCAAs? 8:00 You don't think that's beneficial to them? 8:02 Well, I think right now, like if Minnesota finishes ninth and Maine finishes eighth, you know, under this format, Minnesota would have to travel out to Maine and play an NCAA tournament game in front of a rowdy crowd. 8:15 And I think everybody would look forward to that kind of atmosphere. 8:18 And I think it's what's best for college hockey. 8:20 So when I say just ingenuous, I mean, it's not best for college hockey to go down that path. 8:26 And to say that neutral sites are a priority for the NCAA, I just don't think is a fact. 8:32 I don't see it in the rule book. 8:34 I don't see it in the regional guidance. 8:37 I don't see it in anything they've put out. 8:39 And in all the other sports, pretty much, you know, neutrality of site isn't a priority. 8:47 If we're looking at football, you know, they're going to have home sites for those first round games. 8:52 That's not really... 8:53 Well, and that is true. 8:55 But that's... 8:55 But what you just said about it not being in the rule book, I mean, I honestly don't know what's written down anywhere now. 8:59 But I've had NCA people tell me that the bent of the NCA as an institution is to go towards neutral sites when possible. 9:10 Now, in most of the sports, it's not possible because it would just be a waste of time. 9:15 But it is considered to be the way that... 9:19 I mean, why else would the basketball tournament be that way if that wasn't the natural inclination? 9:29 And why do people get up in arms when, you know, if Duke plays a game in Raleigh, they consider that like, you know, the worst thing in the world. 9:38 Because that is the approach. 9:40 And I was around back when this all went this way. 9:44 And, you know, back in the 90s, when, you know, the NCA was pushing to go that way because they thought hockey was ready for it. 9:53 So that, I mean, so those arguments, that's the only thing I take exception to the fact that the arguments are disingenuous because, you know, you could flip that around any which way. 10:04 You could poll all the coaches. 10:07 I hate to make this an East West thing. 10:09 I really do. 10:10 But poll, talk to all the coaches around. 10:12 Now, a lot of them are coming around. 10:13 A lot of them don't mind necessarily going to the home ice situation. 10:19 But if you, but numerous people I've taught to say that this is all just a way for the bigger schools to get their home games and make it more advantageous to them. 10:31 So they feel just as strongly that way as you do that, that they're making an argument, oh that the neutral site is more beneficial to them, for their team. 10:39 They think that Minnesota, North Dakota, Michigan, all them are trying to game the system for them. 10:44 That's what they believe. 10:45 They don't think that, that's not a disingenuous argument. 10:47 They really believe that. 10:49 Well before we turn it over to Brad, I just want to say in his article he said like there's 30 plus teams who would have hosted a game in the last 10 years, Brad. 11:00 But I think he's right, like that is what coaches legitimately feel. 11:05 Now we can argue that we don't think that is true, but I think there are coaches who legitimately think that is their feeling, that this is a way of gaming it for the big schools. 11:16 Now I think you and I would disagree with that Vegoe, and you know coming from, I cover North Dakota, I think what's an advantage to North Dakota is that they can bid in Fargo every single year and play a home game every single year that they want to. 11:33 How many times have they been in Fargo and not gotten that regional? 11:36 So I think the current setup is actually better for North Dakota. 11:41 And I think what could have happened last year that would have I think maybe accelerated some change is UND was very very close to sneaking into the tournament last year as a four-seat. 11:56 They're going to overtime against St. 11:58 Cloud State and if they get that overtime goal they're playing CC and the NCHC title game, a team they hadn't lost two in 15 games, I believe something like that. 12:10 And if their home is a four-seat and Quinnipiac has to go to Fargo to play a team that snuck in, I know exactly what we're gonna hear from Quinnipiac and I would agree with them that that's not fair and we've seen some of those situations I've brought though you know exactly the ones because I bring them up every time. 12:32 You know Miami going to play Providence in Providence, New Hampshire in New Hampshire, situations like that and I just yeah so I my my point of view isn't that I think this is great for North Dakota. 12:46 I think I'm trying to look at it what's best for the sport and I think having really great crowds is my number one thing and I also seem to side that hey at least the home teams were higher in the pair wise and they weren't just a team that North Dakota threw money at it three years ago and so they get to host but yes and and you know what the you know because David Karl asked me on our podcast he's like well you know if you want to keep the system then what you know you're you're concerned that the math is not perfect enough to give you know an 18 a home game over a 19 then what's the better math and my answer was well there is no better math I mean that's the problem like you've maximized the math at this point you know so so I just that that's my concern with all that but I also want to make it clear though like what you just said like I completely agree that it would be brutal for North Dakota as a four seed to have that pseudo home game and for the Providence 2015 example Nate Lehman gets mad at me every time I bring it up but I mean it's just the most I think the most obvious example, there are other ones. 13:59 I wrote about it that year. 14:01 I mean, that's nine years ago, that that was a terrible decision. 14:04 So I agree that those are all terrible. 14:07 I just feel like we could fix that and not throw out the neutral site stuff. 14:14 I just think that the neutral site is kind of an oxymoron because we're worried about attendance when we put together every regional. 14:22 That's always one of the concerns that people in the bracketology look at. 14:26 They think, okay, we have to put UMass because they're a host. 14:29 Providence is not the host, but they're close and they would help the gate. 14:33 Or North Dakota, they're not the host in Sioux Falls, but they're close. 14:37 This year, we might have three number one seeds out east. 14:40 One of them is going to have to go west. 14:43 I think if you start rewarding teams who are in the top half of the 16 with that home game, you eliminate all those questions and it's just finding a better way to seed the teams then. 14:55 I agree that maybe the pairwise isn't great because of the number of games that are played, the difficult schedules that teams put together. 15:04 You've got like ASU that played all these home games against nobody. 15:08 Penn State was a team for a long time that bought their wins essentially, and so they penalized home games and the calculations. 15:16 There are problems there, but I think the benefits of having these exciting first round games outweigh all those problems that you're trying to solve. 15:25 And again, I'm agreeing with you that those things are not good as far as lower seeds getting de facto home games. 15:35 I don't believe that should happen. 15:38 I yell at the committee every year when they do stupid stuff like that. 15:41 So I'm with you on that. 15:44 I just don't think the game is big enough to overcome that and just kind of play wherever and still have good crowds. 15:50 Well, I mean, that's all because basketball is a billion dollar TV. 15:54 Sure. 15:55 Play it anywhere. 15:56 It's still going to make lots of money. 15:58 No, your abs. 15:58 I mean, that's certainly true. 16:00 But let's I think people forget. 16:03 And probably half the audience wasn't even alive, unfortunately. 16:08 We do skew older. 16:09 We do. 16:10 Oh, good. 16:11 But in, you know, in the 90s, you know, just before the 16 team tournament came into effect in 2003. 16:20 And prior to that, you know, it was a 12 team tournament and it was seeded. 16:24 The way it was constructed was very different. 16:28 There was a East West, you know, it essentially had to be seeded East and West. 16:33 And then they would flip some around in order to avoid matchups and whatnot. 16:39 But they didn't really think of it in terms of, you know, the order of it all. 16:42 It just isn't the way it worked. 16:44 And you had a lot of, you know, you had Michigan hosting a lot of games and I'm trying, you know, it wasn't the examples aren't it. 16:53 But I mean, Minnesota hosted games and Minnesota did two years and people hated that. 16:59 Like they thought that it was a massive amount of progress that College Hockey could support neutral sites, that it could get away from this parochial mentality and get to neutral sites. 17:14 So when everyone says grow the game, I'm not really arguing that. 17:19 Like I said, I'm not as strenuous against it. 17:21 Like if it went back to campus sites, I don't think I would, you know, I wouldn't lose my mind at this point. 17:25 But the idea that like that was, that that's growing the game. 17:32 Like I think it forgets that it did, it was considered growing the game to go to neutral sites in the first place. 17:39 And that is the, like I said, that is the bent of the NCAA when it's supportable. 17:47 So it feels like for the old people like me, it feels like it's going backwards. 17:51 And that might be the case. 17:53 Like I could totally see how that, I wasn't around back then, but I could totally see how that would be the thought process. 18:02 Mine now, you know, 15 years later is, I didn't think it worked. 18:08 I think they tried it. 18:10 If the buildings were full, I wouldn't be saying a word right now. 18:15 To me, that's where the salt comes from. 18:18 I think when I started writing these columns, it was after a regional in Grand Rapids. 18:23 Actually, Minnesota was at that one, too. 18:26 And that was North Dakota played Yale to go to the Frozen Four. 18:30 And that was the smallest crowd that had seen a North Dakota team play a game in seven and a half years. 18:36 And I was like, okay, this is the biggest game of the year, and it's the smallest crowd. 18:43 And then I saw other instances of that. 18:45 And I just think in our current setup, we are always teetering with that. 18:50 And we flirted where we've tried that the committee has really tried, I think, to make the current system work. 18:58 What can they do? 18:59 Can they have a single session tickets? 19:03 Can they lower ticket prices? 19:04 Can they, you know, try to set up better regionals? 19:09 They've tried, I think, and but, you know, I don't think they have. 19:13 That's the problem. 19:14 I mean, they definitely have done some of those things. 19:18 They, you know, I've seen single session tickets for the first day of regionals, which I know that wasn't the case 10 years ago. 19:29 You're also playing regionals at 2 p.m. 19:31 on a Thursday. 19:32 They are now. 19:32 They are doing that. 19:33 Thanks to ESPN and whatever. 19:35 And the coach is wanting to go to split days. 19:38 But my, you know, like, you know, the picture of the Harvard Mankato game that I covered in Albany. 19:47 And that was one of those afternoon Thursday games. 19:50 My question is, if that's 7 p.m. 19:51 Friday, does it look a lot better? 19:57 Probably not. 19:58 The one thing I had some fans reach out to me and say, hey, I was at the BU Cornell game. 20:03 That was awesome. 20:04 Great atmosphere. 20:05 It was, right? 20:07 But what if Denver and Western win those games in the first round? 20:12 And you have Denver and Western playing to go to the Frozen Four in New Hampshire? 20:17 Nobody's going to be there. 20:19 And I was flirting with that every year where we look at the regional and we hold our breath. 20:25 And if the wrong teams win, we're going to have bad regional finals. 20:28 And that's where my argument comes from. 20:32 It's more that than even some of the fairness things. 20:36 But I do think there is a fairness aspect to rewarding teams to host, which is, you know. 20:42 But for me, it's just I think we could see some unreal atmospheres. 20:48 And on top of that, the Minnesota guys could talk about the Big Ten tournament, which decided to go back to home sites in the atmospheres that Mariucci's had, the last two Big Ten championships. 21:05 Well, let's talk about that for a second, because first of all, I am hopefully like, don't add, nothing I say disagrees with the idea that they would overall be better atmospheres. 21:16 I mean, I think you'd be ridiculous and disingenuous, Eric, to suggest that they're not overall better atmospheres if you went home. 21:26 It's just that to me, there's other issues involved. 21:29 Well, you just said about, you know, the conference tournaments. 21:32 It goes back to what I said before about, you know, the math. 21:37 I mean, when a conference has a not, I know that if they're not all balanced schedules, but closer than nationally. 21:46 So when you're going by league standings to select your higher seeds, it's a very obvious choice. 21:54 When you're using the pairwise to select higher seeds, you know, that is a very flawed method, in my opinion. 22:01 So, you know, you're now I mean, now there's I've had coaches, some coaches, not all of them. 22:06 I mean, say that, you know what, they'd rather go play if they're the 10 seed and they're playing the seven seed. 22:13 They'd rather do that and go to the hostile building in Michigan or somewhere than play in front of 2000 people. 22:23 And so if if they feel that way, then, you know, God bless them. 22:29 They're not exactly math whizzes either, the coaches. 22:33 But now we're going to have kind of an opposite problem this year because some genius thought Maryland Heights, Missouri was going to be a great location for a regional. 22:44 It's basically Bloomington Ice Garden, Braemar, just, you know, 2500 seats. 22:50 Yeah, that's now the opposite, Adam. 22:54 What I know could be a nightmare, but Minnesota goes there or Michigan or Boston University, you know, some of those Eastern schools at the west somewhere. 23:05 What are they going to do? 23:06 I was thinking, yeah, the example I've been using is Wisconsin because Wisconsin was lining up to go there at one point. 23:13 But yeah, well, they don't travel. 23:14 I'm not worried about that. 23:17 Right. 23:18 I'm talking to the wrong audience. 23:23 Yeah, so but Eric, I mean, I want it. 23:26 There was one other I was trying to think there was one other thing you said that now I'm trying to remember what it was. 23:30 It had something to do with dumping tickets at a spike. 23:33 Can you remember what you said about that? 23:34 Because I got a reply to North Dakota fans. 23:36 I think you said, well, yeah, what was the context of it? 23:39 I can see a situation where North Dakota is the regional host and North Dakota got sent out to Worcester. 23:46 Oh, yeah, because I said they could do that. 23:48 Yeah. 23:49 Yeah. 23:49 Because if you're going to not reward teams to play at a regional they bid on and then they get kicked out because there are three or four seed. 23:58 I think that just ruins the regional and you're going to have bad attendance issues there. 24:02 And you might have a fan base like North Dakota that doesn't want to sell their tickets to Minnesota fans. 24:07 OK, so I'm glad you said that. 24:09 So this is what I want to reply to you because the word disingenuous might have been in there, too. 24:13 But we just had this scenario last year. 24:20 I spent way more time than I should have on Twitter arguing with Gopher fans who said, we don't want to be in Fargo if we're the number one seed. 24:33 We want to go to Allentown because the two fans are going to not dump their tickets and we're not going to be able to go. 24:41 And that place was packed with Gopher fans. 24:45 So that argument is... 24:47 North Dakota wasn't in the tournament, though. 24:49 I know, but that's what he's saying. 24:51 If North Dakota is in the tournament and they're not at their home rank, what are they going to do? 24:56 They'll travel anyway. 24:57 That argument to me is completely disingenuous. 25:00 We just bought last year. 25:02 Because the North Dakota fans also get first dibs on those tickets. 25:05 Don't they, Schloss? 25:08 Yeah, I mean, there's a percentage of them that get sold in advance to... 25:14 Somehow the Gopher fans filled the building last year. 25:17 How did that happen? 25:19 They paid money for their tickets, that's for sure. 25:23 The fans who went did pay a lot. 25:25 One thing I want to get back to rather than just pointing at things that maybe are somewhat comical to some people, and other people are taking very seriously, is the difference in college hockey from 1990 to 2024. 25:38 Back in 1990, you could argue that the blue bloods of college hockey were always going to be at the top, and the teams at the bottom were pretty much always going to be at the bottom and just struggling to keep afloat as hockey programs. 25:49 I definitely think right now you have an environment of college hockey where there's probably 30 teams that could make the tournament, and at least this year maybe 15 that could win it. 26:02 And so I think that parity that's in place makes this more feasible to have campus sites because you're not always going to have the same teams hosting first round games. 26:13 It's going to be open to teams to win games and get those home games. 26:18 I think it's totally different than the 1990s when that was happening. 26:22 I mean, you look at the Paralyzes right now, there's a lot of blue bloods at the top, but it hasn't looked that way the entire season. 26:28 It's funny. 26:29 Like, this is why you need me here because you've got your Minnesota guys and the rest of the world who see things completely different. 26:38 I think the 100% exact opposite. 26:41 In the 90s, you had Lake Superior State. 26:45 You had Harvard. 26:47 You had a lot of schools like that. 26:49 Clarkson, St. 26:51 Lawrence, who were national contenders. 26:54 Yet they were going to play games in Michigan and Minnesota in the regionals. 26:59 That is the whole reason why everyone was upset back then. 27:03 Nowadays, the blue bloods like Minnesota and Michigan have way more advantages than they did then in terms of how the NCAA is constructed. 27:14 It is headed in a direction with NIL, etc. 27:17 I don't need to go into all that right now. 27:21 The so-called smaller programs that I just mentioned, none of those have been national contenders in a while. 27:28 The trend is really, I understand there is parity, like you said, I don't disagree with you, within the 20. 27:34 But I mean, there's a lot of teams that used to compete for national championships that have no shot anymore. 27:39 And it's only getting worse. 27:41 But hold on. 27:42 How many brand new national championships have we had the last 20 years compared to the previous 20 years? 27:48 That's right. 27:49 There's been a lot of new schools. 27:51 This is where I'm going to bring up my Yale argument that Brad hates. 27:54 Because Yale beat North Dakota and Minnesota in a neutral site in 2014. 27:59 That never would have happened if they had to go play two road games that year. 28:05 And everybody, I can tell you that you might roll your eyes and think that's but everybody in the ECAC believes that argument. 28:13 And that might be right. 28:14 That might be right. 28:16 And they played in front of 2,000 fans. 28:18 And where was that regional? 28:19 Grand Rapids. 28:20 And maybe Yale does not come out of that regional. 28:24 Maybe they lose first round. 28:25 Yeah. 28:26 Well, and I don't know if that is something. 28:28 You're going to say that's not a bad thing. 28:30 But these guys just argue that it's good that we had new blood winning the championship. 28:34 But that's precisely the reason why we did. 28:35 But your argument was that all these other schools were not national powers anymore. 28:39 But still back then, the big blue buds are still winning. 28:43 And the last 20 years, we've had a lot of new schools that have never won. 28:47 Well, you also had Lake Superior State winning Michigan Tech. 28:51 We had a lot of teams that are winning now that didn't win back in the days. 28:56 It was always, you know, Michigan, Lake State, you know, things like that. 29:00 A lot of teams won multiple championships back then. 29:03 But Lake State is not exactly a blue blood. 29:05 I mean, let's be honest. 29:06 And, you know, St. 29:07 Lawrence played Lake Superior for the 1988 National Championship. 29:12 That day is never happening again. 29:14 So Michigan Tech was a power that's never happening again. 29:19 Well, I mean, it would have been better for Minnesota State to finish, you know, as a number one seed and get home games during their run on their Hastings. 29:28 I mean, you could argue they were earning that kind of home ice advantage. 29:32 And every time they seem to have to go on these hostile buildings and struggle. 29:38 And part of that is a program going through the struggles to get to a Frozen Four, to get to a championship. 29:43 But, you know, if you do well in the regular season and you schedule well, you should get rewarded to that rather than looking out for the little guy all the time and trying to give them every advantage. 29:56 Because that's not what's great for the game, in my opinion. 30:01 You're saying give them an advantage. 30:02 I'm saying don't give them a disadvantage. 30:05 So that's the way. 30:07 And I'm agreeing with you again that Minnesota State should not have to keep going all over the place. 30:12 I mean, another, I just want to find solutions within what we have. 30:16 That's really the only difference. 30:18 Like, you know, I think unfortunately Minnesota, the state of Minnesota does not have any AHL buildings, right? 30:25 But there are a lot of other buildings. 30:27 I mean, there's beautiful campus sites that could be used for regionals. 30:33 They decided a while ago to not allow that anymore. 30:36 Maybe bring that back, allow Mankato to host, you know, that kind of thing. 30:40 I mean, there should be, the problem in the West is there's not enough buildings. 30:44 Correct. 30:45 Right. 30:47 So you wind up having to go to freaking Springfield and Bridgeport and Worcester all the time, because those are AHL buildings that have 8,000 seats. 30:54 And the only buildings with 8,000 seats out West or 6,000 are campus buildings. 31:00 Correct. 31:00 So I agree that those should be allowed to host regionals, and that would solve some of those problems. 31:07 But if they're hosting the regionals, why not just... 31:12 I mean, now you're getting back to North Dakota bidding on the Ralph and hosting at the Ralph when they're a three and four seat. 31:20 Yeah, well, no, I do not want that to happen either. 31:22 That's what would happen. 31:24 Well, no, but not in my world. 31:26 Not if I was making the rules. 31:30 So what is the solution then, guys? 31:32 Veegs, do you have any ideas? 31:34 What is a possible solution or will it actually be forgotten about again the spring when the coaches get together? 31:41 I worry that the major junior discussion is going to overwhelm the discussions in Naples. 31:47 But I do think, you know, using what Brad proposed in his article at the start of the year that kicked all this off and getting guys like Adam to figure out how to seed these teams is going to be important because I think it is going to be what's best for college hockey is to find a way to make these games more attractive. 32:05 And I just think with the parity we're seeing in college hockey, there are more programs that are coming up and having those big important games in front of their fans is going to make fans more passionate. 32:17 I don't think Minnesota has their ticket sales that they've had this year without those Michigan Big Ten Championship games that they had. 32:26 Those are memories that fans have made that have carried over. 32:29 And especially with the student body, they have those memories and it's made them better fans. 32:37 What's the solution, Brad? 32:38 Or is there a solution? 32:39 Yeah, I mean, mine is to have the top eight hosts in the first round, re-seed, use the off week, kind of exactly what David Carl has been saying too. 32:54 And so you have a home team all the way till the Frozen Four. 32:58 I think that ensures great attendance. 33:01 I think, you know, some people have brought up the four one seeds hosting regionals kind of in the current format. 33:09 I don't think that solves the problem. 33:11 I think then you have a number two, number three matchup where nobody's going to be there. 33:17 And if the number one seed loses in the first round, you have another problem with the regional final. 33:25 So I don't think that the number one seed hosting four teams really solves the issue to me. 33:32 I think we're going to see the same problematic issues that we see now. 33:36 The one that I see is having the top eight host, then the top four, and then going into the frozen four. 33:44 Also, I would say I want to see them try it. 33:51 If they try it, and there are some unintended consequences and things that happen that I didn't think about, and it doesn't work, I will be the first to say, you know what? 34:03 They tried it. 34:05 They did it for four years. 34:06 I was wrong. 34:09 I will say that. 34:11 I'm trying to think of what is best for college hockey. 34:15 That's it. 34:17 But I think if they did that, what would happen is what you see in the Big Ten and CCHA with the home playoffs, and nobody would want to go back. 34:26 They'd say, this is great. 34:28 And also for everyone who assumes that the home teams are going to win every game. 34:33 It was Michigan who won those both of them, right? 34:36 If I remember right? 34:37 So, I mean, it's going to happen. 34:40 Real teams are going to win. 34:44 So, the idea of, I mean, we kind of agree that I don't think having, like, the idea of the top four seeds hosting regionals is kind of similar to what I'm saying about, you know, taking the current system and twisting, twisting it around so that like a four seed can't be a host and like get them out of there, right? 35:07 Or, or like I just said, like Minnesota State just hosts the regional in advance. 35:12 But, you know, they'll maybe, so it's kind of similar in that regard. 35:16 And, you know, you were kind of saying, well, why not just have them host, host in the first place? 35:21 So, so in that sense, that feels like I agree that it wouldn't solve the atmosphere issue because of what you said. 35:28 That two, three game is still going to be bad and the four, three regional finalists are going to be bad. 35:34 So I agree with that. 35:35 But it feels like also sort of a compromise and that it solves some of the inequities that currently exist without creating new ones. 35:46 But I agree that it wouldn't solve the atmosphere issue. 35:49 So if you wanted a middle ground, I feel like that's a good middle ground. 35:53 I do. 35:56 Hard to make brackets. 35:57 That's a very good point, actually. 35:59 Yeah, forever. 36:00 Always going through there. 36:01 We can't have, can't do, can't, definitely can't do the homeseed thing. 36:04 Well, I'm sorry. 36:05 I meant... 36:07 You meant bracket it, right? 36:09 Yeah, I meant as far as the... 36:13 The seeds would still move up with hosting. 36:16 The high, the better advancing seed hosts. 36:18 Right, right, right. 36:19 I was sorry about that. 36:21 I worded that terribly. 36:22 That's why we ask. 36:26 Like I said, so that's maybe a compromise, but if we want to go full out, I thought in your article, Brad, did you write that you want it to be best of three, though? 36:36 I couldn't remember. 36:37 I did write that in 2012. 36:39 Okay. 36:40 I think the first time I did that, I wrote that that was my idea. 36:44 Based on what the general consensus is no on that, and that'd be fine with me just to do a single game. 36:54 Part of that, I wondered how it would go financially with the one games and insuring two games and gate revenue for the best of three series, I thought would up ticket revenue. 37:06 It seems like not many people are interested in that. 37:09 I'm fine with that. 37:10 Yeah, because David, we talked about that with David Karl, and he said he wouldn't be a fan of that either. 37:16 I told him that if it was a single game, I'm a little more open to that. 37:21 Yeah. 37:21 To that than a best of three, because what I worry about with the best of three, and again, that's the way it was back in the day when I first was covering college hockey. 37:30 Or it was a best two game total goal series. 37:32 Yeah, that's even going back. 37:34 It went from two game total goal to a best of three, and then they just went to single elimination when it went to 12 teams, or just a couple years after it went to 12 teams. 37:45 But the problem with that is I think you get diminishing returns on as far as the atmosphere is concerned because I've seen situations where you've got best of three playoff series for conference tournaments where the tendencies are terrible because students are on break, the people with season ticket packages don't have enough time to decide whether they're going to buy them or not. 38:11 So I feel like that's a non-starter to me anyway at this point, but the single game is at least more palatable in that regard. 38:20 You know, I wonder, I also wondered too, like with ESPN having the contract, like, you know, with best of three, like, how would they get all the games on? 38:29 Even with single elimination, I wonder about that, what they're going to say about that kind of thing. 38:36 So, and they do rule the world these days. 38:39 They do. 38:43 And honestly, that's where Minnesota and a team like North Dakota have advantages because they will put them on the biggest TV spots they can as often as they can because people are watching when those two schools are playing. 38:56 Yeah, and if you have games going on, if, you know, because one of the beauties right now, I mean, it might be terrible for attendance, but I can sit home and watch every single game. 39:05 That's part of the problem, actually. 39:07 You know, back in 1973, when, sorry, hold your ears, Wisconsin was sending 18,000 people to Boston. 39:15 You know, they couldn't see the game unless they went. 39:17 So, you know, Cornell the same way, which is my background. 39:21 But, you know, so nowadays it's I wonder if like the problem gets solved no matter what you do. 39:27 Like I said, Brad, you want to try it if it doesn't work, go back the other way. 39:30 But I do wonder whether it will be as much of the panacea as you think it will be. 39:38 But I don't know. 39:39 Adam, I have a question on that. 39:42 What do you think it would look like if it didn't work? 39:45 Like if we try Brad's tournament and it doesn't work, what would be the signs that it's not working? 39:51 If people don't go see AAC and Quinnipiac? 39:54 If you're not getting the pack crowd that you thought you would get because of some of the things I just pointed out. 40:01 And then if, you know, over time, the coaches start grumbling about the same things I heard them grumbling about in the 90s. 40:10 So, you know, I do think that the pairwise is as fair as it can be right now. 40:16 Like they've put the home road thing in there. 40:19 That was a big deal, especially to Eastern teams who couldn't get Western schools to come to their buildings. 40:25 And they always felt like they had to go away for every non-conference game. 40:29 The home road waiting has helped that. 40:32 You know, a team like you said, Arizona State with 25 home games didn't help. 40:36 They didn't do themselves any favors, actually. 40:38 It might it might be a great atmosphere for them, but they kind of hurt themselves with that. 40:44 So that's helped. 40:46 And it makes me feel better about the pair of eyes right now. 40:51 I guess I just have scars from the old olden days on some of these things. 40:56 Well, I appreciate you documenting them over the years. 40:59 You know, what are the interesting things on your podcast when you break it down? 41:02 You're like, you could see the impact of wins and losses on the pairwise throughout the year, which would expose things you're like, oh, I had no idea that it was making that kind of impact on the number. 41:11 It was only developed at something to evaluate teams at the end of the year. 41:15 And now it seems like we can look at the pairwise going into January one. 41:19 You can say, oh, you know, the NCHC put themselves in a really good spot here. 41:24 And the CCHA is in big trouble and they're only getting one team in. 41:28 You know, and those are some interesting things that have come out of this. 41:31 Well, absolutely. 41:33 But and in another sense, too, as I've written, too, is that it was never intended to be scrutinized that much. 41:39 I mean, you know, for better or worse, you know, like it was just, you know, you take it at the end of the year and no one ever thought of it. 41:48 See, that's the thing I worry about. 41:49 You guys are, I don't know, not you guys, but some younger, some of the coaches are younger. 41:54 They don't realize that the whole concept of 1 through 16, like being meticulously ordered the way it is right now, never existed when the pairwise was invented in the 90s. 42:05 That's just a completely foreign concept that was invented by us media types. 42:09 And after about like five or six years of it being published on the Internet, which was a newfangled thing at the time, Jack McDonald, who was a committee member for Quinnipiac, the AD at the time, when it went to 16 teams, said, well, why not we just use 1 through 16 as our seating? 42:26 That was completely foreign to us in 2003. 42:30 Like, I remember clear as a bell coming out. 42:33 I actually did the selection show for ESPN that year, which I was very I was thrilled to get that opportunity. 42:39 And I remember when the bracket I got the bracket sort of in advance, right? 42:42 You get it like, like three hours in advance that morning. 42:45 We got it at ESPN, right? 42:46 I remember sitting there going, what the hell did the committee just do? 42:52 Like, it made no sense compared to the and then when it clicked in, like, oh, they just went one through 16 and serpentine the thing. 42:59 Like, holy cow. 43:00 Like, that was never the intention. 43:02 So the fact that we're here now with that and taking that as gospel is just another thing. 43:08 Like, I guess maybe that's why I'm resisting. 43:10 So, like, I'm trying to, like, psychoanalyze myself to be like, maybe I should just back off, right? 43:18 And stop arguing with Brad so much and just, like, sort of accept all this. 43:23 But I just remember all this stuff from back then. 43:26 Like, it never was meant to be that way. 43:28 So, I don't know. 43:30 Are you going to get Eric Martinson to maybe push this topic in Florida this year? 43:36 That's not his realm, I don't think. 43:39 He's strictly in the rules committee. 43:41 So if you want to talk to him about video reviews or anything like that, Eric Martinson is the guy. 43:50 But this will be the D1 committee that would ultimately decide it. 43:54 And the way it traditionally works is they need a majority on board. 44:01 A former committee member told me, like, that that would technically mean four of six. 44:07 He said, really, if it's four of six, it's, you want five or you probably want all six, but at least five to make this push go forward. 44:16 And we know that they take the words of the coaches very strongly. 44:23 They are going to listen to what all these conferences, the coaches, the commissioners, the ADs feel, and get the feel from them. 44:32 And when I started writing these columns 10 years ago, it was a very big minority of people that agreed with me and that wanted to change. 44:43 I feel, I know for sure it is growing. 44:46 There are definitely more people that want it now. 44:49 I don't know where that number is though. 44:51 And that's what we'll find out in Florida. 44:54 Are we talking, you know, 90% of college hockey has come around to this? 44:59 Are we talking 60? 45:01 Are we talking 40? 45:02 I, you know, I honestly, I kicked some tires on it and I still don't have like a great, great grasp of where everyone falls in this. 45:13 And if it's 40% support, it's not going to happen. 45:18 If there's 90? 45:20 My gut feeling is that you're over 50% at this point. 45:24 And I only say that because I talked to, I'm not going to say I talked to a lot, but I talked to probably like five coaches from Atlantic Hockey. 45:36 And I don't think it's a big deal if I say who they were, but I don't want to say just in case. 45:40 But ECAC was one of them. 45:42 Right. 45:43 I mean, he said it on your podcast. 45:44 So that's right. 45:45 He did say it on my podcast. 45:46 So there you go. 45:47 From Sacred Heart and former Yale assistant coach. 45:51 So I talked to probably like in the aftermath of the David Carroll conversation, I talked to probably five coaches from those two leagues. 45:56 And those were traditionally the ones who just were like no freeing away. 46:00 And all five said they would be okay with it. 46:05 Maybe one was like on the fence, like I can go either way. 46:08 So just like if you're like at four and a half out of five, just from that group, I think you're in good shape. 46:18 So it'll be interesting. 46:19 Well, it's definitely a great discussion. 46:23 And I really appreciate you both coming on to talk about it. 46:27 I know, Adam, I heard you on Beyond the Pond here in the cities on the radio a couple of weeks ago. 46:32 It was nice to hear you there. 46:33 Schloss, I think you've been on with them talking about it as well. 46:37 And it's a great topic. 46:40 And I'm glad we got a chance to get to it today. 46:45 And I just hope that, like you said, keep the discussion going. 46:49 That's what Veegs and I haven't talked about all season. 46:51 Just keep the discussion going and we'll see what happens. 46:54 Obviously, we want to see it, but... 46:58 I look forward to another March filled with attacks from North Dakota, Minnesota fans in my timeline. 47:05 And what would the world be without that? 47:10 That 2% of the world just gets amplified on there. 47:14 And you just have to have thick skin and stay out of the mud unless you want to get a little dirty. 47:18 You know what, as I always say, in all seriousness, I said this to you guys kind of off the air, and I've said this to Brad many times. 47:24 I've never met in person a Minnesota or North Dakota or Michigan or any fan that I did not like and get along with. 47:31 One, it's the Internet that fosters this nonsense. 47:34 That is true. 47:35 And two, there are just as many knucklehead Harvard fans. 47:40 It's just that Harvard has 10 fans. 47:43 So if 2% of their crowd are knuckleheads, I never hear from them. 47:49 If 1% of North Dakota's fan base is knuckleheads, unfortunately, that's like a few thousand people. 47:57 So that's the difference. 47:59 But generally speaking, you could say it's probably about politics too or whatever. 48:05 You can't judge by what's online. 48:06 The hockey world is a beautiful place. 48:10 So I try not to take any of these arguments too seriously. 48:13 Sometimes someone will say, Oh, you argued with me like three years ago and said, I'm like, I don't even remember. 48:19 I probably did not think of it as seriously as it sounded like I was taking it. 48:23 Like even today, you can probably, I don't know. 48:25 Everything's with like a little bit of tongue in cheek on all of this. 48:29 So don't take it to heart. 48:31 I'm glad we had you on, Adam, and hopefully we can get you on again sometime. 48:35 And Schloss, we definitely can get you on again sometime. 48:39 But I don't think our teams are playing until next year unless there's some... 48:43 Not next year. 48:44 Playoffs, that's what I meant. 48:45 It's like another whole season in between. 48:48 It's going to be a year and a half. 48:49 Yeah. 48:50 But as long as we get half some beers and Grand Forks again... 48:53 That's right. 48:54 Are you already ruling out meeting in St. 48:58 Paul this year? 49:00 That could happen. 49:01 That could definitely happen. 49:04 But thanks both of you for coming on, your great sports, talking about this. 49:07 And we'll catch up with you guys next time. 49:11 It was good to see you guys. 49:13 Thanks a lot. 49:13 See you guys. 49:14 You get. 49:19 Jake Middleton here, Director of Hair and Hygiene for the Minnesota Wild. 49:22 How did I get this important role with the team, you ask? 49:25 I'd like to think it was because of hard work, but the truth is, I run hot. 49:29 Yup, I'm a sweater. 49:33 In my role as Director of Hair and Hygiene, I'm sort of like a player coach. 49:37 Let me pull out the grease board here. 49:39 Well, it's not actually a grease board, because there is nothing dirty about Duke Cannon. 49:45 How do I help the guys stay squeaky clean? 49:47 Helpful reminders. 49:48 It's simple. 49:49 Tarp saw, Duke Cannon up. 49:51 Say it with me. 49:52 Tarp saw, Duke Cannon up. 49:55 Tarp saw, Duke Cannon up. 49:58 Pick the scent that suits you. 50:00 Sawtooth. 50:03 Thick body wash. 50:05 Extra thick. 50:07 And my favorite, midnight swim. 50:10 Tarp saw, Duke Cannon up. 50:13 Duke Cannon. 50:14 Work harder, smell better. 50:17 All right, we thank Duke Cannon for being one of the GPL Podcast sponsors, but also Cub Foods, Veegs. 50:24 Cub Foods. 50:25 We love Cub. 50:25 They're all aboard the Pulltab Sports wagon. 50:28 They sponsor the Wildlands 7 pod, sponsor Twin Sober Hankies. 50:32 They're on PJ Flex headset. 50:35 And they're one of us, and they support the GPL Podcast too. 50:38 So visit your local Cub. 50:40 They're all over for your food and beverage needs. 50:43 You want to pick up, you want to delivery, you want to go in and get some beers, pale ales, THC, they got you covered. 50:50 Lots of locations around, and they support everyone around us. 50:53 So we love them. 50:56 All right. 50:56 Thanks again for Cub for being a sponsor of The GPL Podcast. 51:01 Well, that was fun, Veegs. 51:02 We went a little longer. 51:03 We thought we should. 51:04 But I thought it was well worth having those two on. 51:09 I think Adam's a great sport about coming back on. 51:11 I think he's slowly getting convinced to go the other direction. 51:15 I think he's okay with trying. 51:17 I think he is. 51:17 You know, I like that idea from Brad. 51:19 Let's try it. 51:21 Yeah, I think the thing that's opening Adam's eyes is the more coaches he talks to and gets them to think about it, the more they're like, yes, this sounds like something that's good for college hockey. 51:32 It's good for our players. 51:33 We want a big atmosphere for our game. 51:36 And I think there's just so much parity in college hockey. 51:39 You're going to see a lot of fun atmospheres. 51:42 And it's just going to be so much better than the current format. 51:44 I hope it makes it in the discussion. 51:49 I hope so, too. 51:51 We took last week off. 51:53 The team had their break. 51:56 Not the greatest weekend in South Bend. 52:01 Yeah, getting that overtime goal on Saturday, really savage, salvaged some things from a savage weekend overall. 52:09 I mean, they got their tails handed to them Friday night, six to one. 52:12 And then Snuggeroo, which I called. 52:14 I'm just having fun with it. 52:16 I'm like, Snuggie needs a score. 52:17 Wanting me to game early goal. 52:19 30 minutes later, he scores the game winning goal in overtime. 52:22 So it was nice for him to get off the snipe because he hadn't scored since mid January. 52:27 Yeah, we were kind of talking about him on the podcast over the last couple of weeks about him not really getting high quality, dangerous shots. 52:36 You know, he's got the quick release, but that only matters if the puck is moving side to side or you're shooting through traffic. 52:44 You know, that's when the quick release matters. 52:47 You know, I think back to the CC series when he took care of Kaden Burko with a couple of long distance shots. 52:53 Those were opportunities where he was forcing the goalie to move and that quick shot paid off. 52:59 You know, that release that he's got is so important there. 53:03 So it's good to see him get a shot through traffic against Notre Dame. 53:07 Disappointed with how they played on Friday. 53:10 It's almost like this team had the letdown. 53:12 We were worried about coming up at some point. 53:15 And this team just isn't that talented, where they can outscore mistakes and get away with a game like that. 53:22 So it's good to see their response. 53:23 Should the game have even gone to overtime weeks? 53:26 Because it was another game with a goal disallowed. 53:30 Yeah, what is a goalie interference call? 53:33 And apparently it's like if it's a Minnesota player involved, it's just a no goal. 53:38 It's curious all the decisions and I worry for the NCAA tournament and how they're going to handle decisions on goalie interference. 53:46 Because I've seen some of the guidance provided to the officials of what should be an allowed goal, what should be a goal. 53:53 And the calls that we're seeing in college hockey right now just do not align with that guidance. 53:59 And I know that the directors of officials are trying to support their refs to make the call as they see fit, but I don't think they're getting it right. 54:09 I can't disagree with you there, Figgs. 54:12 The funny thing is one of the referees that was calling that series, Gophers have not had a good record with that referee. 54:19 I mean, he was sub-500. 54:22 Whereas they seem, because it's just uncanny how his games are a little different. 54:30 Well, I'll out Shawn Fernandez on this one. 54:32 He's a ref that the Gophers do not seem to do well against. 54:36 And I think one of the things is he doesn't call a lot of penalties in general. 54:40 So when he's refereeing the game, they're going to let players get a lot of things, get away with a lot of things. 54:48 And it just doesn't align with how the Gophers are playing this year. 54:51 They need to get those calls and go on the power play and get those special teams goals. 54:56 You know, they don't play through that contact quite as well as Cooley and Nyes did last year and Faber and Lacombe and Johnson. 55:03 So I think it makes a bigger impact on Minnesota this year than it maybe would have in the past. 55:08 And they're just going to have to bring their big boy Breezers to the rink if they see him on the lineup sheet. 55:15 And like Steve says here in the chat, I told one of the parents Saturday, enjoy the four to one overtime victory. 55:24 Because I know Steve was at Felton with a bunch of other GPLers for the series. 55:32 It's frustrating, Veegs. 55:33 It's so frustrating. 55:34 Well, it's frustrating because it doesn't seem consistent. 55:37 So, you know, it seems like anytime there's any kind of fringe contact or screening interference or going through the crease or they get tripped up by the opponent, it doesn't go their way regardless of the timeline. 55:52 And I know that it doesn't require a penalty to be called for it to allow the interference with the goalie. 55:59 You know, it doesn't have to be a cross check that's called, you know, that will allow a goal. 56:04 So we'll see what happens. 56:07 I think the guidance is clearer than it should be, but the calls in the ice are not. 56:14 All right. 56:14 Well, you know, kind of a shortened show here. 56:16 So we need to get in a couple more advertisements while we're here. 56:20 And of course, we need to talk about Will Anderson, insurance Veegs. 56:25 Yeah, close your eyes. 56:27 Think of your insurance agent, someone you used to know decades ago, friend of a friend. 56:31 Now ask yourself, what has your insurance person done for you lately? 56:35 Are they saving your money? 56:37 Will they answer your call? 56:38 Well, reach out to our sponsor, Will Anderson Insurance. 56:41 He'll insure you the same as his own family and he'll explain it to you. 56:45 So it makes sense, maybe more sense than goaltender interference. 56:49 And while we can't promise he'll save you money, let's just say you should sure get a quote. 56:53 Call 612-361-7283 or visit willandersonagency.com. 57:02 Former gopher too. 57:04 Former gopher, hockey guy, no balls to drop there. 57:07 And of course, we can't forget about Yocum Real Estate Group, the twins, Veegs. 57:13 Yeah, if you're in the market to buy or sell a house, Tis the season, Super Bowl Sunday is the official trigger point to list your home or start looking. 57:21 And I think I figured out why that is. 57:22 It's because people no longer are tied to their TVs on the weekend. 57:26 They want to go out and they want to shop homes. 57:28 I think that's why it is. 57:30 And if you're thinking of going in the market, don't roll the dice on your biggest asset. 57:34 Think twice and contact the twins, Sarah and Jodie at Yocum Real Estate. 57:38 If they stand side by side, their wingspan is bigger than that other guy who buys too many billboards. 57:43 Visit yocumrealestategroup.com for more info. 57:49 Oh, of course, we thank both Will Anderson Insurance and Yocum Realty for sponsoring The GPL Podcast. 57:55 You make me giggle there, Veegs. 58:00 Oh, okay. 58:03 Michigan coming to town. 58:05 They got a chance to get past Minnesota if they can sweep this weekend. 58:10 Minnesota just needs one winner. 58:11 They need two points to secure third place in the Big Ten. 58:17 On top of that, you've got Wisconsin hosting Michigan State. 58:22 Michigan State is up by a couple points. 58:25 So that makes a fun series. 58:27 And then down at the bottom, you even have Ohio State and Penn State. 58:33 They can't change anything, but it still makes an interesting series. 58:39 Only Notre Dame is kind of stuck where they're at, Veegs. 58:43 Yeah, Ohio State. 58:45 What happened to them? 58:46 They beat Michigan State. 58:47 They beat Wisconsin. 58:48 All of a sudden, they look like world beaters out there. 58:51 They got defensemen getting away with murder on the ice. 58:55 But high contact, spearing, all kinds of stuff over there. 59:01 The Big Ten is shaping up to be a good race here at the end. 59:03 There's going to be some drama. 59:05 Anyone can beat anyone in the Big Ten. 59:07 I think that's what makes the conference pretty good. 59:10 You look at Penn State, Aidan Finks had a great year for them. 59:13 He's a dangerous player. 59:14 I don't know if there is structure enough to really be a threat here down the stretch. 59:18 But Ohio State, when they can beat Wisconsin and Michigan State, they're a dangerous team. 59:23 So finishing as high as you can is important. 59:25 I know you've looked into the tiebreakers that could come into play this weekend. 59:29 It looks like those losses are what's going to separate Penn State and Ohio State possibly. 59:36 Well, you know, we had Cappy asking us some of these things this week on Twitter. 59:40 He's like, why? 59:41 This doesn't seem right. 59:43 Well, so many of these league schedule show wins, losses and ties, which don't mean anything when it comes to actual Big Ten standings. 59:54 They kind of want to have the NCAA records in there or something like that. 59:58 So what I've done the last couple of years at GPL is like regulation wins, shootout or overtime loss because it's worth or shootout overtime win because it's worth the same amount of points, whether if you win in overtime or if you win in a shootout. 1:00:12 And then you've got an overtime loss or shootout loss. 1:00:16 You get one point and then regulation loss. 1:00:19 So a lot of times people weren't knowing how many actual wins Ohio State and Penn State had in regulation. 1:00:27 Turns out, you know, Penn State has two more regulation wins. 1:00:32 If Ohio State sweeps them, you go to tiebreaker number one. 1:00:36 That's head to head. 1:00:37 They had six points each. 1:00:39 So that doesn't work. 1:00:40 So then you go to wins. 1:00:41 Oh, they tied at five wins. 1:00:43 So I think you have to go all the way down to regulation losses. 1:00:46 Regulation losses, if Penn State gets swept, they'll have 14 losses. 1:00:51 Ohio State would have 15 losses. 1:00:53 And that's where Ohio State loses the tiebreaker. 1:00:56 So they cannot catch Penn State. 1:00:59 Nicely done. 1:01:00 So I get frustrated. 1:01:03 So a little schedule, win-loss tie and then overtime loss. 1:01:06 Over time, I'm like, I wouldn't, with the GPL schedule, I don't care about NCAA. 1:01:12 I don't care about records. 1:01:13 I care about three, two, one, zero points. 1:01:18 Yeah. 1:01:19 And the conference, you want to be looking at that point structure for the conference. 1:01:23 Nationally, we got the pairwise for all that stuff. 1:01:25 Exactly. 1:01:26 So, but it does make, I mean, obviously you've got Michigan State trying to win their first trophy in the Big Ten. 1:01:35 They haven't won any regular season. 1:01:37 They haven't won any playoff titles. 1:01:39 Of course, they didn't win a playoff game until last year. 1:01:43 But now they're looking to wrap up the title, leaving only Michigan as the only team in the Big Ten who has not won a Big Ten title, regular season. 1:01:57 They've done pretty well in the playoffs. 1:01:58 They've done well in the playoffs, but they have not done the regular season yet. 1:02:02 Well, I definitely think that's the thing about Michigan, is they've got a lot of high-end talent. 1:02:07 They just have not had a team or structure that would allow them to be consistent over an entire season. 1:02:14 So I think this weekend, it's going to be exciting hockey. 1:02:17 Michigan's a dangerous team, but they're inconsistent. 1:02:21 And we'll see what Minnesota team we get showing up this weekend. 1:02:25 Is it the team that has played pretty much every game except that Friday one at Notre Dame? 1:02:31 Or do we see that Friday Notre Dame game team slip into things? 1:02:36 And you could hear Bob being a little frustrated, I think, with the Nelson line. 1:02:40 I think he got frustrated with Moore, Snuggerd and Pitlick chasing offense. 1:02:46 I think he got frustrated with Sam Rinzel not back checking very well in the situation where he dives in the offensive zone. 1:02:54 And all that stuff got cleaned up on Saturday. 1:02:57 If Minnesota learns their lesson, which maybe came at a good time, this team could go on a run. 1:03:04 But if they don't learn that lesson, this is not a team that's good enough to overcome play like that. 1:03:11 Looks like we're going to have pretty good crowds this weekend. 1:03:18 Minnesota just needs two points, and then they would host Penn State. 1:03:27 What do you think happens here, Veegs? 1:03:28 I mean, like you said, lessons learned or not? 1:03:32 Yeah, I feel like this team has enough veteran leadership, and they're so close to the finish line now, and they're at home, and they'll be in the tournament play that they'll figure it out. 1:03:42 But I don't know if they're going to be able to sweep Michigan. 1:03:44 I think they're going to get like four points out of the weekend. 1:03:48 That's not bad. 1:03:50 I was thinking somewhere along the same three or four points for me. 1:03:57 What can we say? 1:03:59 Michigan tends to play pretty well here. 1:04:03 Do they have a lot to play for? 1:04:04 Probably not. 1:04:06 It's not like the Big Ten Championship where a lot's on the line. 1:04:10 Both teams have a little more leeway right now. 1:04:12 Yeah, Toronto talked about this week, if they want to get in as an at-large team, this is a massive weekend for them to make a statement and get important wins. 1:04:21 One, it's on the road. 1:04:22 Two, it's against Minnesota. 1:04:24 So it's a really important series, I think, for Michigan if they want to put themselves into an at-large consideration. 1:04:30 Because who knows what's going to happen at the end of this year with the conference tournaments, especially with Atlantic Hockey and CCHA being the way they are. 1:04:39 It'll be interesting. 1:04:40 It'll definitely be interesting. 1:04:42 You got anything else, Veegs? 1:04:44 Stay tuned for us on Twitter on Saturday. 1:04:46 We'll have some swag at the rink. 1:04:49 We'll probably be giving some away before puck drop, you know, after warm ups. 1:04:56 We'll be at the rink. 1:04:57 We'll have some stuff. 1:04:58 So keep an eye out for that. 1:05:00 We'd love to see some podcast listeners at the rink. 1:05:04 That sounds like fun, Veegs. 1:05:06 I'm looking forward to giving away more stuff, more swag. 1:05:09 That's right. 1:05:10 More swag for our loyal followers here. 1:05:14 All right. 1:05:14 Well, that's going to do it for this episode of The GPL Podcast. 1:05:18 Obviously, we want to thank Brad and Adam for coming on and button heads a little bit with Veegs. 1:05:25 That was fun. 1:05:26 I can't wait to have them both back on again. 1:05:29 For those of you watching live, stay tuned for some overtime. 1:05:34 For the rest of you, we'll catch you next week on The GPL Podcast.