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Big Ten Expansion!!!

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SkiUMahLaw
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Bertogliat wrote...

A good question to get answered is what, if anything does B1G conference affiliation do for each school, outside of athletics?

Why is it important to Minnesota that any new conference members be AAU members?  How does it impact the U on the academic side?

I believe the AAU status gives legs up on Government research grants, which when the Academic B1G obtains such a grant, it shares the research among the schools.  So more AAU members = better chances of grant-receiving = more academic dollars to spread around.

Being AAU isn't necessarily required for government grants, but it is one of those qualification things that indicate you have the ability to complete research and do it correctly.


   
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Bertogliat
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SkiUMahLaw wrote...
Bertogliat wrote…

A good question to get answered is what, if anything does B1G conference affiliation do for each school, outside of athletics?

Why is it important to Minnesota that any new conference members be AAU members?  How does it impact the U on the academic side?

I believe the AAU status gives legs up on Government research grants, which when the Academic B1G obtains such a grant, it shares the research among the schools.  So more AAU members = better chances of grant-receiving = more academic dollars to spread around.

Being AAU isn’t necessarily required for government grants, but it is one of those qualification things that indicate you have the ability to complete research and do it correctly.

I was not aware they share grants between schools.


   
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Orion
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Slap Shot wrote...
Orion wrote…
gator wrote…

I might eat crow here, cause I’ve been pretty firm on the BIG only looking for AAU colleges to join the BIG in it’s expansion. Though if there is one college/university that the BIG would compromise for would be Notre Dame.  Plus Notre Dame wants nothing to do with SEC Football.  It’s not their narrative or style. And like SkiUMahLaw mentioned, Notre Dame doesn’t want to risk losing it’s rivalries UCS, Stanford (if they join the BIG), Purdue and bring back games vs. Michigan and Michigan State.

My take is the AAU is not critical for athletics any longer.  AAU colleges (and the NCAA) have already shown that athletics are no longer an academic concern.  Yes, there is big money in the AAU and research side, but why does this have to be tied to athletic concerns?  Athletic conferences could be a separate identity from academic affiliation.  It seems that we keep trying to tie academics and athletics together much more than is happening in reality.

I’m not sure you’re giving the AAU side of things enough credit in how important it actually is to a university.  I’m not saying it will restrict Notre Dame from being admitted but they’re not going to go completely ignore its importance on a widespread basis.

I fully appreciate the importance of the AAU to a university.  I'm just saying that athletics and academics can be and should be viewed as two separate things.  Why not get big piles of money on both sides?  Athletics are not part of the AAU affiliation so why should academics be part of athletic affiliation?  Another way to look at it would be the creation of a separate conference for athletics and one for academics.


   
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Bertogliat
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Orion wrote...
Slap Shot wrote…
Orion wrote…
gator wrote…

I might eat crow here, cause I’ve been pretty firm on the BIG only looking for AAU colleges to join the BIG in it’s expansion. Though if there is one college/university that the BIG would compromise for would be Notre Dame.  Plus Notre Dame wants nothing to do with SEC Football.  It’s not their narrative or style. And like SkiUMahLaw mentioned, Notre Dame doesn’t want to risk losing it’s rivalries UCS, Stanford (if they join the BIG), Purdue and bring back games vs. Michigan and Michigan State.

My take is the AAU is not critical for athletics any longer.  AAU colleges (and the NCAA) have already shown that athletics are no longer an academic concern.  Yes, there is big money in the AAU and research side, but why does this have to be tied to athletic concerns?  Athletic conferences could be a separate identity from academic affiliation.  It seems that we keep trying to tie academics and athletics together much more than is happening in reality.

I’m not sure you’re giving the AAU side of things enough credit in how important it actually is to a university.  I’m not saying it will restrict Notre Dame from being admitted but they’re not going to go completely ignore its importance on a widespread basis.

I fully appreciate the importance of the AAU to a university.  I’m just saying that athletics and academics can be and should be viewed as two separate things.  Why not get big piles of money on both sides?  Athletics are not part of the AAU affiliation so why should academics be part of athletic affiliation?  Another way to look at it would be the creation of a separate conference for athletics and one for academics.

But why?  It seems to be going fine.  As a fan of the University of Minnesota (not a huge revenue builder for FB and MBB) you might want to be careful what you wish for.


   
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Orion
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Why?  Purely to increase revenue.  I'm not advocating for or against here.  I'm just saying if the Big Ten could admit SCSU and increase revenue by a billion dollars while still keeping the AAU money they would.  They just couldn't say it's about academic integrity without snorting a chuckle or two.


   
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HandyNotDan
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And he is right...if a non-AAU school can bring in more revenue the Big Ten will find a way to allow it in.  They won't lose anything out of the deal because the AAU members will still get the grants they would have gotten before.  That doesn't mean we like it (I hate it personally) but that changes nothing.  The Big Ten will do what is best for the Big Ten...and when it comes to college sports that means stacking the deck with as many brands as possible.  They aren't going to block a school that can add millions to the coffers of all the member institutions on the threat of losing grant dollars...especially since the threat is likely hollow anyways.

Now, if adding a non-AAU member put those grants at risk in any sort of real tangible way, then they might think twice.  But the government isn't going to hold back money because a member or two is not a part of the collective. (unless I missed something)


   
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gator
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1) Who besides Norte Dame would the BIG bring in that’s not AAU?
And even though Notre Dame is not AAU, they bring enough to the table on the academic scale.

2) It’s been mentioned before… Athletics bring in pennies to the dollar what grants and research does… especially at the “U”. So academics will still have the final say if it affects them in anyway.

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
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HandyNotDan
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gator wrote...

1) Who besides Norte Dame would the BIG bring in that’s not AAU?
And even though Notre Dame is not AAU, they bring enough to the table on the academic scale.

2) It’s been mentioned before… Athletics bring in pennies to the dollar what grants and research does… especially at the “U”. So academics will still have the final say if it affects them in anyway.

  1. I dunno we have no idea who is even looking and honestly I hate all this so I just tune it out mostly.
  2. Wanna bet?

Academics lost the fight a long time ago.


   
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Jupiter ♃
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I renamed this topic since the change I made yesterday was wiped out with the lost data.

Do not like how this board is run?
Get your own board!


   
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Cowgirl
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HandyNotDan wrote...
gator wrote…

1) Who besides Norte Dame would the BIG bring in that’s not AAU?
And even though Notre Dame is not AAU, they bring enough to the table on the academic scale.

2) It’s been mentioned before… Athletics bring in pennies to the dollar what grants and research does… especially at the “U”. So academics will still have the final say if it affects them in anyway.

  1. I dunno we have no idea who is even looking and honestly I hate all this so I just tune it out mostly.
  2. Wanna bet?

Academics lost the fight a long time ago.

I think it was Steve (who posted before the delete) numbers showing academics still brought in more $.


   
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Steve MN
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Cowgirl wrote...
HandyNotDan wrote…
gator wrote…

1) Who besides Norte Dame would the BIG bring in that’s not AAU?
And even though Notre Dame is not AAU, they bring enough to the table on the academic scale.

2) It’s been mentioned before… Athletics bring in pennies to the dollar what grants and research does… especially at the “U”. So academics will still have the final say if it affects them in anyway.

  1. I dunno we have no idea who is even looking and honestly I hate all this so I just tune it out mostly.
  2. Wanna bet?

Academics lost the fight a long time ago.

I think it was Steve (who posted before the delete) numbers showing academics still brought in more $.

Yes.  2019 total Big Ten Athletic Department spending was just under 2 Billion

2020 Big Ten Academic Alliance (the new name for the Committee on Institutional Cooperation) Funded research of 11.5 Billion.

I'm slightly surprised the numbers are that close, actually... but that still means the the grants/etc for research is nearly 6 times as much as the total spending by the Athletic Departments.

B1G refs... corrupt, or just incompetent?


   
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HandyNotDan
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Cowgirl wrote...
HandyNotDan wrote…
gator wrote…

1) Who besides Norte Dame would the BIG bring in that’s not AAU?
And even though Notre Dame is not AAU, they bring enough to the table on the academic scale.

2) It’s been mentioned before… Athletics bring in pennies to the dollar what grants and research does… especially at the “U”. So academics will still have the final say if it affects them in anyway.

  1. I dunno we have no idea who is even looking and honestly I hate all this so I just tune it out mostly.
  2. Wanna bet?

Academics lost the fight a long time ago.

I think it was Steve (who posted before the delete) numbers showing academics still brought in more $.

I am not talking about who brings in more money, I am talking about who has the power.  Academics does not control what and who does what in the Big Ten and hasnt for a while now.

 

And again, the Big Ten risks almost nothing when it comes to grants if they let in a non-AAU member.  They will not be passed over in the end for the money.


   
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Slap Shot
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ND wouldn't be passed over but they're Notre Freaking Dame.  If a school such as Iowa State was non-AAU they'd have zero chance.


   
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SkiUMahLaw
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Slap Shot wrote...

ND wouldn’t be passed over but they’re Notre Freaking Dame.  If a school such as Iowa State was non-AAU they’d have zero chance.

Iowa State resigned from the AAU as their expertise (agricultural and engineering studies) are diminishing in importance for AAU inclusion (which is moving more toward a medical focus).  So ISU's chances to join the B1G are essentially zero now.


   
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Orion
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To add to this thread, only four SEC schools are also members of the AAU.  <b>Florida, Missouri, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt</b>

Interesting enough, it looks like in 2021 LSU brought in 165 million in research grants compared to the UMN bringing in 1.15 billion.

 


   
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YoungEagle
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Orion wrote...

To add to this thread, only four SEC schools are also members of the AAU.  <b>Florida, Missouri, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt</b>

Interesting enough, it looks like in 2021 LSU brought in 165 million in research grants compared to the UMN bringing in 1.15 billion.

 

Boy if that doesn’t perfectly highlight the primary focus difference between the SEC and the B1G I don’t know what does.  What an astonishing number. :dup:

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Norm
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YoungEagle wrote...
Orion wrote…

To add to this thread, only four SEC schools are also members of the AAU.  <b>Florida, Missouri, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt</b>

Interesting enough, it looks like in 2021 LSU brought in 165 million in research grants compared to the UMN bringing in 1.15 billion.

 

Boy if that doesn’t perfectly highlight the primary focus difference between the SEC and the B1G I don’t know what does.  What an astonishing number. :dup:

Shocking! When I think of research I think of LSU. Most of their football players have to get excused from the chemistry lab on Saturday just to play ball.


   
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YoungEagle
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Very interesting paragraph from the Athletic’s ND Football writer Pete Sampson on ND TV ratings.

‘Head-to-head, the viewership for Notre Dame games holds up nicely in September while the Big Ten is playing through nonconference schedules. But once the conference season begins, the second-best Big Ten game drew a bigger audience than Notre Dame every week, often by a wide margin. Even Ohio State-Indiana did better than Notre Dame-USC in Week 8. And Penn State-Ohio State almost tripled the audience for Notre Dame-North Carolina. Indiana-Penn State got about the same audience as Notre Dame-Cincinnati. And yes, you could easily make the argument that Notre Dame’s viewership is being dragged down by ACC competition.

If you halve the $350 million figure because we’re only talking about Notre Dame’s home schedule, you’re down to $175 million. Then you’d need to adjust further downward because Notre Dame’s home schedule doesn’t draw like the Big Ten’s second-best game. So let’s halve that figure again. Now you’re at $87.5 million.

Suddenly, that initial $75 million report feels more reasonable.‘

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Greyeagle
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Buckle up, this could get interesting.

IMHO the chances it ends up in court...seems we have regents who are Cal backers who are unhappy a UCLA defection could leave Cal in a worse position than they already are currently.

 

https://twitter.com/latimessports/status/1560306590065930241?s=20&t=gAN1ECBvT1x3H1ptGpkedw

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Eric Vegoe
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Those regents are about to find out that they ultimately don't have the power that they think they have.


   
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gator
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Eric Vegoe wrote...

Those regents are about to find out that they ultimately don’t have the power that they think they have.

Personally I think the board regents is trying to flex their muscle and get the BIG to bring Cal in with USC and UCLA. Cal brings nothing to the table for the BIG. Oregon (Nike), Washington (Seattle market), Colorado (Denver market) and Arizona (Phoenix market) bring more then Cal.

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
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YoungEagle
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gator wrote...
Eric Vegoe wrote…

Those regents are about to find out that they ultimately don’t have the power that they think they have.

Personally I think the board regents is trying to flex their muscle and get the BIG to bring Cal in with USC and UCLA. Cal brings nothing to the table for the BIG. Oregon (Nike), Washington (Seattle market), Colorado (Denver market) and Arizona (Phoenix market) bring more then Cal.

San Francisco market is nothing to sneeze at. Top 5 or 6 in US. Athletically they aren’t much to sneeze at in the money maker sports, but academically it’s a great fit.

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MATT
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YoungEagle wrote...
gator wrote…
Eric Vegoe wrote…

Those regents are about to find out that they ultimately don’t have the power that they think they have.

Personally I think the board regents is trying to flex their muscle and get the BIG to bring Cal in with USC and UCLA. Cal brings nothing to the table for the BIG. Oregon (Nike), Washington (Seattle market), Colorado (Denver market) and Arizona (Phoenix market) bring more then Cal.

San Francisco market is nothing to sneeze at. Top 5 or 6 in US. Athletically they aren’t much to sneeze at in the money maker sports, but academically it’s a great fit.

According to this, 6th. Phoenix is 11th, Seattle is 12th, and Denver is 16th.


   
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SkiUMahLaw
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Their call should be to Stanford.  Stanford brings the Silicon Valley market which is the moneyed population in the Bay area and where a bunch of B1G alums live.

Cal would be a great fit academically but another Maryland athletically.  Having your rival come in as a package would be the smart move.

U of Arizona brings the Tucson market.  ASU brings the Phoenix valley.  ASU is not academically up to B1G caliber however.  I don't think the B1G is moving that direction quite yet, but I could see the B1G bringing them both in down the line.


   
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gator
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Just my opinion and I know dinky-do.

That’s the problem… you take one, do you bring their rival?!?!?!

- Arizona (AAU): Rival Arizona St. (not AAU).

- Oregon (AAU): Rival Oregon St. (not AAU).

- Washington (ASU): Rival Washington St. (not AAU).

- Stanford (AAU): Rival Cal (is AAU).

- Colorado (AAU): Rival Colorado St. (not AAU).

- Kansas (AAU): Rival Kansas St. (not AAU).

After UCLA and USC join, the BIG will be at 16. I see them going to 20. If they expand more, probably to 24. The SEC will probably pick apart the ACC with UNC, Duke, Clemson, Florida St, Miami and maybe Wake Forest.

1) Notre Dame

2) Stanford

3) Oregon

4) Washington

5) Colorado

6) Arizona

7) Kansas

8) Cal

 

 

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
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The Rube
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gator wrote...

Just my opinion and I know dinky-do.

That’s the problem… you take one, do you bring their rival?!?!?!

 

Ask the B1G Ten Hockey conference and UND. 😉

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
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SkiUMahLaw
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gator wrote...

After UCLA and USC join, the BIG will be at 16. I see them going to 20. If they expand more, probably to 24. The SEC will probably pick apart the ACC with UNC, Duke, Clemson, Florida St, Miami and maybe Wake Forest.

1) Notre Dame

2) Stanford

3) Oregon

4) Washington

5) Colorado

6) Arizona

7) Kansas

8) Cal

 

I'm with you on your first four.  I think the B1G looks east after that and hunts out UNC, Duke, Ga Tech, and someone in Florida.  Then they'll see what the SEC does.  Aside from Clemson, Florida State and Miami, I don't see a lot of value left for the SEC, and the SEC adding a school like ASU for a market would be a diminished return for everyone else.

 

 


   
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gator
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The Rube wrote...
gator wrote…

Just my opinion and I know dinky-do.

That’s the problem… you take one, do you bring their rival?!?!?!

 

Ask the B1G Ten Hockey conference and UND. 😉

  1. UND isn't the Gophers #1 rival in hockey... that's wisconSIN. Though the Gophers are Obsession Community College's #1 rival.
  2. UND would need to end their remedial classes and up their admission standards with athletes like Ben Blood and Joe Finley.
  3. Research to be AAU qualified, isn't researching the effects of peeing in an elevator, walking in the snow with no socks, throwing a lawnmower, letting detained teammate out of the backseat of a squad car... am I missing anything?!?!?!

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
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The Rube
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gator wrote...
The Rube wrote…
gator wrote…

Just my opinion and I know dinky-do.

That’s the problem… you take one, do you bring their rival?!?!?!

 

Ask the B1G Ten Hockey conference and UND. 😉

  1. UND isn’t the Gophers #1 rival in hockey… that’s wisconSIN. Though the Gophers are Obsession Community College’s #1 rival.
  2. UND would need to end their remedial classes and up their admission standards with athletes like Ben Blood and Joe Finley.
  3. Research to be AAU qualified, isn’t researching the effects of peeing in an elevator, walking in the snow with no socks, throwing a lawnmower, letting detained teammate out of the backseat of a squad car… am I missing anything?!?!?!

You know that was a joke response, right? 😉

When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in... as to just how dumb you are.


   
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gator
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The Rube wrote...
You know that was a joke response, right? 😉

Yes... I thought my replies gave it away... LoL!!!

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
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Cowgirl
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gator wrote...
The Rube wrote…
gator wrote…

Just my opinion and I know dinky-do.

That’s the problem… you take one, do you bring their rival?!?!?

Research to be AAU qualified, isn’t researching the effects of peeing in an elevator, walking in the snow with no socks, throwing a lawnmower, letting detained teammate out of the backseat of a squad car… am I missing anything?!?!?!

Yes - making counterfeit money.   Bochenski bucks anyone?


   
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Greyeagle
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Stanford would be a huge 'get' for the B1G and in many ways I would put a bigger target on them than Notre Dame.

“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”

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Bertogliat
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Cowgirl wrote...
gator wrote…
The Rube wrote…
gator wrote…

Just my opinion and I know dinky-do.

That’s the problem… you take one, do you bring their rival?!?!?

Research to be AAU qualified, isn’t researching the effects of peeing in an elevator, walking in the snow with no socks, throwing a lawnmower, letting detained teammate out of the backseat of a squad car… am I missing anything?!?!?!

Yes – making counterfeit money.   Bochenski bucks anyone?

Wasn’t it pull tabs?


   
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Slap Shot
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Bochenski Bucks.


   
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Cowgirl
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Slap Shot wrote...

Bochenski Bucks.

https://www.uscho.com/2001/04/02/top-und-recruit-pleads-guilty-to-felony/


   
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Jupiter ♃
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I just learned that Bochenski is now the Mayor of Grand Forks... (Do not start any sort of political talk. I just stating a matter of fact that I had no idea about)

Do not like how this board is run?
Get your own board!


   
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Greyeagle
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I'm more surprised someone....hell anyone.....would stay in Grand Forks.  Even after THE Olive Garden opened.

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Iceburg
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Posted by: @gopher6

Gophers 0-4 all time vs USC

 

They didn’t take losing well

http://tessa.lapl.org/cdm/ref/collection/photos/id/18464


   
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Greyeagle
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Curious. 
It seems WA representative types are nervous that WSU will be left behind if the B1G, or another conference, targets UW. 
As they should be, I don’t see WSJ as a target for many conferences  

https://twitter.com/thecomeback/status/1614085408144633856?s=46&t=L_cjBws1X4MOGpXTdPHR0g

“When your best friend is the son of God, you get tired of losing every argument.”

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thinkbui
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Well, not terribly surprising after the UC Regents strong-armed UCLA into effectively paying a B1G tax to Cal, but interesting that they're going about it this way.

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@greyeagle 

Might see this more with the Pac10 affiliates. Along with UW and WSU, Oregon/Oregon State and Arizona/Arizona State. And Kansas/Kansas State in the BIG12.

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
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SkiUMahLaw
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Well that is one way to torpedo UDub's chance to rake in the big bucks.  Probably really hurts the overall university system there as a result.

Similar stuff happened in Texas and Virginia in the past.  We'll see how the politics shake out in Washington and whether Oregon follows suit.   I am not as worried about Arizona since ASU is not an AAU school. 


   
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Steve MN
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Posted by: @skiumahlaw

Well that is one way to torpedo UDub's chance to rake in the big bucks.  Probably really hurts the overall university system there as a result.

But... but... we HAVE to play the in-state rivals every year.

B1G refs... corrupt, or just incompetent?


   
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Greyeagle
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I had a chance to talk with one of my WSU cousins over Christmas.  "They are screwed" was his exact response.  Of course this was before the proposed legislation.   

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HandyNotDan
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I honestly doubt it will go anywhere and just like when Cal was trying to threaten UCLA ultimately the college will win.  WSU doesn't have the same support U Dub does. 


   
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Posted by: @steve-mn

But... but... we HAVE to play the in-state rivals every year.

Don’t be surprised if those rivalry games still exist. UW, Oregon, Arizona and even Kansas will still have non conference if the leave their current conference and join the BIG. I don’t see any of those 4 colleges leaving the Pac12 for any conference besides the BIG and for some reason the SEC extends a welcome. They are not going to the ACC or the BIG12.

 

Keep your stick on the ice...


   
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