Portal Forum General Other Sports Youth Hockey

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  • #148594 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Spectators will be allowed at high school and youth sports events (up to 150 people). Thank you Jesus!

    #148595 Quote
    SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Spectators will be allowed at high school and youth sports events (up to 150 people). Thank you Jesus!

    For ease of crowd management, I would expect both the MSHSL and Minnesota Hockey soon to limit spectators to two per participant.

    Otherwise, you are asking for trouble at the youth level and requiring already overburdened activities offices to add a ticket office capability (since they would need to do the same for all winter sports, home and away).

    #148596 Quote
    Slap ShotSlap Shot
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    Do squirt games get more than 150 people?

    #148597 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Maybe you all should just be happy that you get to play…

    #148598 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Slap Shot wrote:


    Do squirt games get more than 150 people?

    Why would they?

    Most youth hockey teams are 15 kids per team. So even with 2 parents per kid you have at most 60 parents.

    Considering several parents are coaches and most kids have siblings that need to be supervised I am guessing you’ll have 45 or so parents in the stands for most games. That isn’t a lot and the risk is low when everyone is wearing masks and spreading out.

    #148599 Quote
    Slap ShotSlap Shot
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Slap Shot wrote:


    Do squirt games get more than 150 people?

    Why would they?

    Most youth hockey teams are 15 kids per team. So even with 2 parents per kid you have at most 60 parents.

    Considering several parents are coaches and most kids have siblings that need to be supervised I am guessing you’ll have 45 or so parents in the stands for most games. That isn’t a lot and the risk is low when everyone is wearing masks and spreading out.

    I wasn’t the one that suggested a limit of 150 might be too low. Ski might not have either if I misread his post.

    #148600 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Maybe you all should just be happy that you get to play…

    It’s not enough, now they don’t want to have to wear masks.

    #148601 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Slap Shot wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    Slap Shot wrote:


    Do squirt games get more than 150 people?

    Why would they?

    Most youth hockey teams are 15 kids per team. So even with 2 parents per kid you have at most 60 parents.

    Considering several parents are coaches and most kids have siblings that need to be supervised I am guessing you’ll have 45 or so parents in the stands for most games. That isn’t a lot and the risk is low when everyone is wearing masks and spreading out.

    I wasn’t the one that suggested a limit of 150 might be too low. Ski might not have either if I misread his post.

    Nobody is saying it isn’t enough. In fact SkiUMah Law was just stating that MN Hockey may self regulate further to limit to 2 spectator (parents) per player, which is what most rinks have been allowing since the initial shut down.

    I think most people are just happy to be able to watch their kids play. I was surprised they were allowing 150. I hoped for 2 or even 1 spectator per player. And I have 2 LiveRink subscriptions to let me watch on my phone, if needed.

    #148602 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Cowgirl wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Maybe you all should just be happy that you get to play…

    It’s not enough, now they don’t want to have to wear masks.

    Who? Don’t doubt wearing a mask during vigorous exercise in tough. But I don’t think the kids are complaining too much.

    My biggest concern is reduced vision. I could see wearing masks during play lead to some neck injuries as kids are bent over further to see the puck near their feet. I am watching my kids practice on LiveBarn just to make sure I can correct them if I see them bending over too much.

    #148603 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Cowgirl wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Maybe you all should just be happy that you get to play…

    It’s not enough, now they don’t want to have to wear masks.

    Who? Don’t doubt wearing a mask during vigorous exercise in tough. But I don’t think the kids are complaining too much.

    My biggest concern is reduced vision. I could see wearing masks during play lead to some neck injuries as kids are bent over further to see the puck near their feet. I am watching my kids practice on LiveBarn just to make sure I can correct them if I see them bending over too much.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/lawsuit-to-challenge-minnesota-sports-mask-mandate/89-c7128797-4795-427e-8ea4-b56683cf1dfc

    I played hockey in a mask before the shut down. I won’t lie, it sucked ass, but I survived!

    #148604 Quote
    Anonymous
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    Cowgirl wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    Cowgirl wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Maybe you all should just be happy that you get to play…

    It’s not enough, now they don’t want to have to wear masks.

    Who? Don’t doubt wearing a mask during vigorous exercise in tough. But I don’t think the kids are complaining too much.

    My biggest concern is reduced vision. I could see wearing masks during play lead to some neck injuries as kids are bent over further to see the puck near their feet. I am watching my kids practice on LiveBarn just to make sure I can correct them if I see them bending over too much.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/lawsuit-to-challenge-minnesota-sports-mask-mandate/89-c7128797-4795-427e-8ea4-b56683cf1dfc

    I played hockey in a mask before the shut down. I won’t lie, it sucked ass, but I survived!

    Wearing a cloth face covering while playing a sport, breathing hard and thinking it offers any sort of protection against a virus is about as absurd as it gets.

    #148605 Quote
    Slap ShotSlap Shot
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    I thought I saw masks will not be requires now while playing?

    #148606 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    Masks are safe for sports in healthy people: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33153145/

    They work (no not 100% but every little bit helps):

    https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

    And hockey is unique in it’s ability to help spread covid more than other sports: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/04/hockey-covid-transmission-outbreaks/%3foutputType=amp

    Masks will need to be changed as they work better when dry, but because hockey is a sport where social distancing isn’t possible and exhaling more forcefully spreads MORE respiratory droplets, it seems logical to wear a mask. It’s not fun, it’s an inconvenience, but it’s better than getting sick and dying.

    I worry that in a few weeks we’ll just be right back to a need for restrictions anyways after dining and sports are in full swing again, so enjoy it while it lasts.

    #148607 Quote
    ThompsThomps
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    Cowgirl wrote:

    They work (no not 100% but every little bit helps):

    https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

    I would love to see how the testing was performed and the particle counts. If they put the sensor directly in front of the source, then I can see why they numbers for filtration are high. They should be testing above on the sides, above and below as well. With no seals on masks,the physics says the particles will take the path of least resistance, which is out the sides/top/bottom. https://youtu.be/g_bM1y1IpJY

    #148608 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Some particles do go around, but not all. That’s why the mask will get wet it you wear it a long time. It offers some protection.

    If parents can stay away from congregating at the pool and bar at tournaments and before and after games it’ll go a long way.

    #148609 Quote
    VegoeVegoe
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    Thomps wrote:


    Cowgirl wrote:

    They work (no not 100% but every little bit helps):

    https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

    I would love to see how the testing was performed and the particle counts. If they put the sensor directly in front of the source, then I can see why they numbers for filtration are high. They should be testing above on the sides, above and below as well. With no seals on masks,the physics says the particles will take the path of least resistance, which is out the sides/top/bottom. https://youtu.be/g_bM1y1IpJY

    [mention]Thomps[/mention] I know you’re trying to be helpful here… but this isn’t trying to provide a solution for a BSL 3 facility. This is a best effort to do something to mitigate the risk and allow some benefits. I think the case that Dr. Bill Morice first referenced that masks can be helpful was about the hair salon where their mitigation efforts maybe have an impact.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/health/coronavirus-hair-salon-masks.html

    Here is more from him:

    https://twitter.com/moricemdphd/status/1283428406131142659

    I don’t think there are going to be many prospective studies approved that expose people to covid under different conditions, so all we’re left with is retrospective analaysis.

    #148610 Quote
    g-manpuckg-manpuck
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    The youth/high school sports mask debate is complete bunk when you look at hockey and basketball have to wear a mask at all times but wrestling only when they walk in and out of the building for practice and while not on the mat competing at a dual meet. Why is that? Why the two rules? And the MDH “choking hazard” explanation doesn’t count. Like my son told me, “there isn’t a second go by in a wrestling match where someone isn’t putting their hands in your face or sliding your face across the mat”, so a mask wouldn’t have a chance to stay in place during practice or a match.

    #148611 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    g-manpuck wrote:


    The youth/high school sports mask debate is complete bunk when you look at hockey and basketball have to wear a mask at all times but wrestling only when they walk in and out of the building for practice and while not on the mat competing at a dual meet. Why is that? Why the two rules? And the MDH “choking hazard” explanation doesn’t count. Like my son told me, “there isn’t a second go by in a wrestling match where someone isn’t putting their hands in your face or sliding your face across the mat”, so a mask wouldn’t have a chance to stay in place during practice or a match.

    It sounds like you answered your own question.

    #148612 Quote
    g-manpuckg-manpuck
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    g-manpuck wrote:


    The youth/high school sports mask debate is complete bunk when you look at hockey and basketball have to wear a mask at all times but wrestling only when they walk in and out of the building for practice and while not on the mat competing at a dual meet. Why is that? Why the two rules? And the MDH “choking hazard” explanation doesn’t count. Like my son told me, “there isn’t a second go by in a wrestling match where someone isn’t putting their hands in your face or sliding your face across the mat”, so a mask wouldn’t have a chance to stay in place during practice or a match.

    It sounds like you answered your own question.

    Okay…didn’t want to go here but your post makes it clear you missed the point. Since Covid is so bad that the other sports have to wear a mask at all times…why is wrestling allowed to happen without masks at all? Why the two rules? And to be 100% clear…I am not advocating that wrestling must happen at all costs.

    #148613 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    I am at the point with everything that we just really don’t know what we don’t know. Everyone has opinions and studies that will fit their narrative, its the beauty of the time we live in and the internet.

    That being said, North Dakota has been back playing games since December 14th (practicing since 11/30) without masks on the ice. Coaches have been wearing them and honestly, I am impressed that every one I have seen is keeping them on. Cases have steadily declined in North Dakota, which at one time was the darling of the media and certain folks scoffing at our loosened restrictions. Parents are still congregating at hotels too and with each other. This winter the weather has been mild so there has been more “tailgating” than previous Januarys. Since then the positive rate for the 15-19 age group has been really low, but the 14 and under group it really drops off so I am not sure making them wear masks would prevent much anyway. Not sure what MN’s #s look like, I am to lazy to look right now.

    I think only time will tell which precautions worked and which ones didn’t. I am good doing whatever needed so they can play. I did talk to a co-worker in Duluth and after the first practice of his kid’s mask getting wet and giving that waterboarding sensation (to a small degree) he went and ordered one that fits over the mask and I have hear those work well.

    #148614 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    g-manpuck wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    g-manpuck wrote:


    The youth/high school sports mask debate is complete bunk when you look at hockey and basketball have to wear a mask at all times but wrestling only when they walk in and out of the building for practice and while not on the mat competing at a dual meet. Why is that? Why the two rules? And the MDH “choking hazard” explanation doesn’t count. Like my son told me, “there isn’t a second go by in a wrestling match where someone isn’t putting their hands in your face or sliding your face across the mat”, so a mask wouldn’t have a chance to stay in place during practice or a match.

    It sounds like you answered your own question.

    Okay…didn’t want to go here but your post makes it clear you missed the point. Since Covid is so bad that the other sports have to wear a mask at all times…why is wrestling allowed to happen without masks at all? Why the two rules? And to be 100% clear…I am not advocating that wrestling must happen at all costs.

    I didn’t miss the point. It’s the same reason you don’t have to wear a mask while eating at a restaurant. You can’t eat with a mask on and you can’t wrestle with a mask on. You don’t NEED to wrestle, but you also don’t NEED to eat at a restaurant. They’re obviously allowing people to go in public without masks in certain situations to make life somewhat bearable.

    I’ll be happy to discuss further in IM, if you’d like.

    #148615 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    I am at the point with everything that we just really don’t know what we don’t know. Everyone has opinions and studies that will fit their narrative, its the beauty of the time we live in and the internet.

    That being said, North Dakota has been back playing games since December 14th (practicing since 11/30) without masks on the ice. Coaches have been wearing them and honestly, I am impressed that every one I have seen is keeping them on. Cases have steadily declined in North Dakota, which at one time was the darling of the media and certain folks scoffing at our loosened restrictions. Parents are still congregating at hotels too and with each other. This winter the weather has been mild so there has been more “tailgating” than previous Januarys. Since then the positive rate for the 15-19 age group has been really low, but the 14 and under group it really drops off so I am not sure making them wear masks would prevent much anyway. Not sure what MN’s #s look like, I am to lazy to look right now.

    I think only time will tell which precautions worked and which ones didn’t. I am good doing whatever needed so they can play. I did talk to a co-worker in Duluth and after the first practice of his kid’s mask getting wet and giving that waterboarding sensation (to a small degree) he went and ordered one that fits over the mask and I have hear those work well.

    In MN the 15-19 age group has similar number of total cases to the age groups above them all the way to the 60-64 year olds.

    The 10-14 age group is half the total number and the younger kids have less. But this is likely due to the fact that young kids barely show symptoms so most don’t get tested. My kids had only minor symptoms for 2 days. My neighbors across the street tested their family because they played outside with my kids. Two of their five kids tested positive and both were asymptomatic.

    https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situation.html#ageb1

    #148616 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    So how bout them Twins? :)

    #148617 Quote
    TiggsyTiggsy
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    So let’s get back to a less controversial topic. :)

    I have probably asked this before to the group but it’s getting more real now so thought I’d throw it out one more time. Jr. is in his last year of bantams. What are some good off season options to get him ready for high school tryouts? His high school does have a program in July that lasts a few weeks but to me that doesn’t seem like enough. He’s going into a pretty competitive class A school and wants to be as ready as possible without bankrupting us. I think he has set a reasonable goal of getting a JV spot next year with a chance to suit up for varsity occasionally.

    AAA is around but it seems way to expensive and travel heavy for what you get from what I can see. What else is out there?

    #148618 Quote
    GreyeagleGreyeagle
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    Tiggsy wrote:


    So let’s get back to a less controversial topic. :)

    I have probably asked this before to the group but it’s getting more real now so thought I’d throw it out one more time. Jr. is in his last year of bantams. What are some good off season options to get him ready for high school tryouts? His high school does have a program in July that lasts a few weeks but to me that doesn’t seem like enough. He’s going into a pretty competitive class A school and wants to be as ready as possible without bankrupting us. I think he has set a reasonable goal of getting a JV spot next year with a chance to suit up for varsity occasionally.

    AAA is around but it seems way to expensive and travel heavy for what you get from what I can see. What else is out there?

    There used to be some open ice options around the area but it’s been a while since I’ve looked for anything like this. There could also be some summer leagues that are not AAA expensive as options, too. Maybe someone in a HS program or someone who’s played in a Jr. Gold program has some ideas you could look into?

    #148619 Quote
    ex_goldyex_goldy
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    I think 3 on 3 leagues are still forming, good for small games, passing, stick handling. Lightly refereed. There are teams at that level. We used to play Mash which was a summer league but one team ruined it by gooning it up. They didn’t like us (not Edina).

    Summer camps, AAA, leagues are for profit. Good, varies with who is coaching and only for a week so not usually worth it. If you get other interest you can just buy ice time. I have seen this done and the cost shared with the teams just takes some work to coordinate.

    #148620 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    Don’t overlook general sports conditioning programs. If there is something interesting that focuses on strength, speed, and agility off ice it can help more than just skating with AAA teams.

    #148621 Quote
    VegoeVegoe
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    Tiggsy wrote:


    So let’s get back to a less controversial topic. :)

    I have probably asked this before to the group but it’s getting more real now so thought I’d throw it out one more time. Jr. is in his last year of bantams. What are some good off season options to get him ready for high school tryouts? His high school does have a program in July that lasts a few weeks but to me that doesn’t seem like enough. He’s going into a pretty competitive class A school and wants to be as ready as possible without bankrupting us. I think he has set a reasonable goal of getting a JV spot next year with a chance to suit up for varsity occasionally.

    AAA is around but it seems way to expensive and travel heavy for what you get from what I can see. What else is out there?

    If he’s really serious, then an offseason leg strength and speed program is the best thing that can be done in an offseaon… but that won’t work unless they are self motivated.

    SSM Off-season — pretty easy to pickup and go with this one.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_gVEruSP6Curaos2ZQEXXo1v17vyzuku/view?usp=sharing

    Cal Dietz Off-season — much more scientific than most, but Cal focuses on phases of training with method—”learning how to eccentrically and isometrically absorb energy before applying it in explosive dynamic movements. Athletes aren’t powerlifters. They must be strong, but only to the extent that it can benefit them in their sport.”

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hGBSVCphHdgZcPX2GbzDmGvfVVBkFywR/view?usp=sharing

    Someline like Project Hockey offers more custom and motivating things for the modern kid: https://www.projecthockey.com/

    I’d do what the school offers for the offseason if possible, keeps the kid on the radar. I think just getting some time on the ice with some small area games and getting a feel for skates/pucks ahead of tryouts helps. I used to help run an eight session pre-season clinic for kids that basically covered the ice time cost $140 and $60/night for three coaches to be out there, so like $1600/30 kids — we’d do a 10-min warmup, then two 15-min games at each end and finish with a escalating condition drill over the month to build up the legs.

    #148622 Quote
    TiggsyTiggsy
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    I keep getting emails for Jr. to attend “exposure” camps. Are these a scam? I don’t know they just sound fishy. Maybe a way for junior programs to find kids? I don’t know. Any experience? Some sound like they might be fun showcases just to play some games, but being billed as exposure seems a little misleading.

    Not doing any this summer as Jr. will be a sophomore and moving into high school hockey next year and is going to his school’s summer program.

    #148623 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Tiggsy wrote:


    I keep getting emails for Jr. to attend “exposure” camps. Are these a scam? I don’t know they just sound fishy. Maybe a way for junior programs to find kids? I don’t know. Any experience? Some sound like they might be fun showcases just to play some games, but being billed as exposure seems a little misleading.

    Not doing any this summer as Jr. will be a sophomore and moving into high school hockey next year and is going to his school’s summer program.


    I don’t think they are a scam, but I think some of these places got their hands on email address ago local organizations this past year. My kid was a 08 PWAA Goalie this past year and I have gotten emails for USHL Futures Camps from 2-3 different teams, stuff from other academies that I have never reached out to or would have any reason to have my email address. Obviously their camps are being run and kids get ice time, but if someone really wants to see my kid somewhere, I assume they will give me a call or send a personal email, because I am not gonna drive my kid to Sioux City Iowa for a 5 day camp.

    #148624 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Funny, I typed in Sue the old way.

    #148625 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    My kid has been on the bottom of C teams all his life. He gets these same emails if that tells you anything.

    #148626 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    It is a fundraiser for the teams, plain and simple. Get as many people to pay the fee as possible.

    #148627 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    Tiggsy wrote:


    I keep getting emails for Jr. to attend “exposure” camps. Are these a scam? I don’t know they just sound fishy. Maybe a way for junior programs to find kids? I don’t know. Any experience? Some sound like they might be fun showcases just to play some games, but being billed as exposure seems a little misleading.

    Not doing any this summer as Jr. will be a sophomore and moving into high school hockey next year and is going to his school’s summer program.

    I can’t speak to the hockey version of these camps but the baseball ones are usually a decent way to get exposure if they’re being run by an actual organization. Lots of area scouts attend camps run by colleges and club teams for baseball.

    #148628 Quote
    VegoeVegoe
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    Beauner wrote:


    Tiggsy wrote:


    I keep getting emails for Jr. to attend “exposure” camps. Are these a scam? I don’t know they just sound fishy. Maybe a way for junior programs to find kids? I don’t know. Any experience? Some sound like they might be fun showcases just to play some games, but being billed as exposure seems a little misleading.

    Not doing any this summer as Jr. will be a sophomore and moving into high school hockey next year and is going to his school’s summer program.

    I can’t speak to the hockey version of these camps but the baseball ones are usually a decent way to get exposure if they’re being run by an actual organization. Lots of area scouts attend camps run by colleges and club teams for baseball.

    The USHL camps are scouted by college coaches, but they cast the net pretty big in order to get enough kids to fill up the rosters and make the event worthwhile for the staff. These things are focused on their ‘drafted’ players and evaluating where they could fit. If a kid isn’t one of those drafted players, then they’re probably better of sticking to their school’s summer program. If they really wanted to make a leap, then exploring like MAP Hockey, Fortis Hockey, MEGA Goaltending or 1st Athlete depending on fit are probably better than the experience of one of these exposure camps.

    https://ushl1draft.rinknet.com/

    Always interesting to see the USHL perspective on 150 15-year-olds and also see who the WHL thinks they can land.

    https://whl.ca/article/western-hockey-league-completes-2020-whl-u-s-prospects-draft

    #148629 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    My kid is doing the YHH NOW Combine at the U of M this week. I dropped him off at Mariucci this morning where he has a full week of activities, including a campus tour, Gopher player interviews, scavenger hunt at Ridder, dodgeball at TCF Bank and a myriad of other things that should be a lifelong experience. Phones are not allowed which I love but I want to see some pictures, I am VERY a jealous of this opportunity for him!

    #148630 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    My kid is doing the YHH NOW Combine at the U of M this week. I dropped him off at Mariucci this morning where he has a full week of activities, including a campus tour, Gopher player interviews, scavenger hunt at Ridder, dodgeball at TCF Bank and a myriad of other things that should be a lifelong experience. Phones are not allowed which I love but I want to see some pictures, I am VERY a jealous of this opportunity for him!

    YHH is certainly tweeting out a bunch of photos for your viewing pleasure.

    #148631 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    My kid is doing the YHH NOW Combine at the U of M this week. I dropped him off at Mariucci this morning where he has a full week of activities, including a campus tour, Gopher player interviews, scavenger hunt at Ridder, dodgeball at TCF Bank and a myriad of other things that should be a lifelong experience. Phones are not allowed which I love but I want to see some pictures, I am VERY a jealous of this opportunity for him!

    YHH is certainly tweeting out a bunch of photos for your viewing pleasure.


    Yeah I have seen them. Not quite the same as they are just teasers. My kid is in one of them watching Andy Brink talk though.

    #148632 Quote
    GopherPeteGopherPete
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    My kid is doing the YHH NOW Combine at the U of M this week. I dropped him off at Mariucci this morning where he has a full week of activities, including a campus tour, Gopher player interviews, scavenger hunt at Ridder, dodgeball at TCF Bank and a myriad of other things that should be a lifelong experience. Phones are not allowed which I love but I want to see some pictures, I am VERY a jealous of this opportunity for him!

    YHH is certainly tweeting out a bunch of photos for your viewing pleasure.


    Yeah I have seen them. Not quite the same as they are just teasers. My kid is in one of them watching Andy Brink talk though.

    Did he mention anything about Bobby entering the transfer portal? :M2: :M2:

    #148633 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    GopherPete wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    My kid is doing the YHH NOW Combine at the U of M this week. I dropped him off at Mariucci this morning where he has a full week of activities, including a campus tour, Gopher player interviews, scavenger hunt at Ridder, dodgeball at TCF Bank and a myriad of other things that should be a lifelong experience. Phones are not allowed which I love but I want to see some pictures, I am VERY a jealous of this opportunity for him!

    YHH is certainly tweeting out a bunch of photos for your viewing pleasure.


    Yeah I have seen them. Not quite the same as they are just teasers. My kid is in one of them watching Andy Brink talk though.

    Did he mention anything about Bobby entering the transfer portal? :M2: :M2:


    Lol, not that he recalls! He did speak about controlling what you can control though.

    #148634 Quote
    GreyeagleGreyeagle
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    GopherPete wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:

    Yeah I have seen them. Not quite the same as they are just teasers. My kid is in one of them watching Andy Brink talk though.

    Did he mention anything about Bobby entering the transfer portal? :M2: :M2:

    Don’t get [mention]Davey J.[/mention] all excited! :lol:

    #148635 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    BertogliatBertogliat
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    I was looking at the meeting minutes for our youth hockey program and specifically looking at the charitable gambling income.

    I was shocked to see MN has 2 taxes for “Lawful gambling” (36% + 8.5%).

    Our local government charges a 10% tax.

    So our net receipts are taxed 54.5%. After you subtract cost of tickets, booth rental, paying for pull tab employees your net income is less than 20%! :lol:

    I am not intending this to be political. I just thought it was interesting how little money actually makes it to the intended charity.

    #148637 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    I was looking at the meeting minutes for our youth hockey program and specifically looking at the charitable gambling income.

    I was shocked to see MN has 2 taxes for “Lawful gambling” (36% + 8.5%).

    Our local government charges a 10% tax.

    So our net receipts are taxed 54.5%. After you subtract cost of tickets, booth rental, paying for pull tab employees your net income is less than 20%! :lol:

    I am not intending this to be political. I just thought it was interesting how little money actually makes it to the intended charity.


    Interesting. I just looked up North Dakota’s as our association is going to be getting into it finally. Looks like if proceeds are over $50k the tax is 12% to the State and 1% to the local government.

    #148638 Quote
    midevil bowievilmidevil bowievil
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    our association is going to be getting into it finally.

    Just getting into it? Many small Minnesota associations wouldn’t be sustainable without it.

    #148639 Quote
    HockeyBumHockeyBum
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    Today is my annual “Why the hell did I ever allow my kid to play hockey?” day, as I register her for the 21-22 season and send the payment.

    #148640 Quote
    D2DD2D
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    HockeyBum wrote:


    Today is my annual “Why the hell did I ever allow my kid to play hockey?” day, as I register her for the 21-22 season and send the payment.


    Years from now you will look back and treasure the memories. It will all definitely be worth it.

    #148641 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    midevil bowievil wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    our association is going to be getting into it finally.

    Just getting into it? Many small Minnesota associations wouldn’t be sustainable without it.


    I am in North Dakota.

    #148642 Quote
    BladepullerBladepuller
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    midevil bowievil wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    our association is going to be getting into it finally.

    Just getting into it? Many small Minnesota associations wouldn’t be sustainable without it.


    I am in North Dakota.

    You have my deepest and most heart felt condolences.😏

    #148643 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Bladepuller wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    midevil bowievil wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    our association is going to be getting into it finally.

    Just getting into it? Many small Minnesota associations wouldn’t be sustainable without it.


    I am in North Dakota.

    You have my deepest and most heart felt condolences.😏


    Because I don’t pay ridiculous prices and politics aren’t an issue? Gotcha.

    #148644 Quote
    BladepullerBladepuller
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Bladepuller wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    midevil bowievil wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    our association is going to be getting into it finally.

    Just getting into it? Many small Minnesota associations wouldn’t be sustainable without it.


    I am in North Dakota.

    You have my deepest and most heart felt condolences.😏


    Because don’t pay ridiculous prices ask politics aren’t an issue? Gotcha.

    Huh? Some one from ND needs to translate this for me. While I worked in Belcourt and lived in Rolette I never became fluent in NoDakese.

    Shouldn’t be hard to find a translator from all the the River Valley farmers going to Ottertail, the DL area lakes, or even Cass Co. On the weekends

    Lighten up. This site isn’t the SS site.

    #148645 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Bladepuller wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Bladepuller wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    midevil bowievil wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    our association is going to be getting into it finally.

    Just getting into it? Many small Minnesota associations wouldn’t be sustainable without it.


    I am in North Dakota.

    You have my deepest and most heart felt condolences.😏


    Because we don’t pay ridiculous prices and politics aren’t an issue? Gotcha.

    Huh? Some one from ND needs to translate this for me. While I worked in Belcourt and lived in Rolette I never became fluent in NoDakese.

    Shouldn’t be hard to find a translator from all the the River Valley farmers going to Ottertail, the DL area lakes, or even Cass Co. On the weekends

    Lighten up. This site isn’t the SS site.


    Huh is right. I am lightened up. Apparently you don’t read any of my other posts around here.

    Couple auto-correct issues, sue me.

    #148646 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    I am being bombarded this year with emails from several different summer leagues, and now fall leagues about not enough officials; we need people to “step up and work”, “help the kids out”, “work your fair share of games”, etc. etc. That apparently wasn’t working so now they have now turned to shaming us to try and get people to work “Stop collecting unemployment and get out and skate.” Many have stopped including what they are paying in the emails hoping to get people to commit before disclosing it, because some are embarrassingly low.

    First off, as an official I have only once ever been an employee – and that is when I worked for the Central Hockey League and they also provided housing, insurance, travel stipends, and some other things. Youth, High School, Junior, and College (and even some Pro leagues) we are all independent contractors. So we cannot collect unemployment on officiating income, in fact you usually have to claim officiating income even if they get laid off from their regular job. So nobody is sitting at home collecting unemployment checks based off prior year’s officiating income.

    Secondly. How about you pay me more than $40/game? This is how capitalism works. Enough people have decided that it is no longer worth doing that job for the amount of money you are willing to pay. People pi$$ and moan about officials constantly, and then throw a huge fit anytime there is an increase in officials game fees or anything like that. So do you actually want officials? Or do you just want to get high school/college kids who need to make a few bucks working the games? Are you willing to deal with the fallout from the choice? There is a AAA League right now trying to get officials to work games as a single official for 1:15 Bantam games for $45. Good luck with that, let me know how it turns out. There are 3 high schools I work games for in the winter that provide a gatorade and snickers bar for each official every game. That little gesture costs them what, $5 out of pocket? but goes such a long way! [mention]SkiUMahLaw[/mention] ‘s HS being one of them. (That school also happens to pay on the spot, and not make me fill out a Pay Voucher, W2, District Non-Employee form at each game, and then send 2 more emails in order to get paid, only to get the wrong amount and have to email again).

    Third. 90%+ of Spring/Summer/Fall hockey is un-sanctioned, or pseudo-sanctioned at best. There is zero repercussions or discipline when it comes to player behavior and most of them have figured that out. So many players act out because they know they can get away with it and only face minimal consequences at worst. When I used to officiate that hockey, that was the only time I ever had to call a butt-end, and had way more spearing penalties than ever in winter, sanctioned hockey. Dealing with that nonsense on a regular basis is not fun for anyone. NO thanks. Hard pass.

    Fourth. Many officials like an offseason too. When I worked spring/summer/fall hockey I was already burned out and angry before the regular season started. Plus I want to play golf, go up north, etc. during the summer. I don’t want to be stuck in an arena all summer, working games for $30 a pop. Enough guys put in their time by working for free (or donating game fees) during “Stick it to Cancer” tournaments, working tryout scrimmages for their local association for $10 or even free sometimes. You aren’t going to get the same treatment as a AAA Hockey league charging parents through the nose.

    As for the argument – “$45 for a 1:15 game? That’s $36/Hr That’s more than I make at my job!!” By all means; go ahead and referee fulltime and let me know how you make out in the end. Who here heard the one about all the officials who work games because “the money is so good”? Yeah, nobody. Of course almost nobody would do it if we weren’t paid, and there are always a few doing it because they need the money, but nobody is doing it because it pays so well.

    So next time your local referee association approaches the district and are asking for a $1 or $2 per game increase per official. Please think twice before getting in a tizzy and telling them to pound sand. And shaming people because you aren’t willing to increase from what you paid officials in 2010 to work games is really the wrong way to go about it.

    I will get off my soap box now.

    #148647 Quote
    SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    I am being bombarded this year with emails from several different summer leagues, and now fall leagues about not enough officials; we need people to “step up and work”, “help the kids out”, “work your fair share of games”, etc. etc. That apparently wasn’t working so now they have now turned to shaming us to try and get people to work “Stop collecting unemployment and get out and skate.” Many have stopped including what they are paying in the emails hoping to get people to commit before disclosing it, because some are embarrassingly low.

    First off, as an official I have only once ever been an employee – and that is when I worked for the Central Hockey League and they also provided housing, insurance, travel stipends, and some other things. Youth, High School, Junior, and College (and even some Pro leagues) we are all independent contractors. So we cannot collect unemployment on officiating income, in fact you usually have to claim officiating income even if they get laid off from their regular job. So nobody is sitting at home collecting unemployment checks based off prior year’s officiating income.

    Secondly. How about you pay me more than $40/game? This is how capitalism works. Enough people have decided that it is no longer worth doing that job for the amount of money you are willing to pay. People pi$$ and moan about officials constantly, and then throw a huge fit anytime there is an increase in officials game fees or anything like that. So do you actually want officials? Or do you just want to get high school/college kids who need to make a few bucks working the games? Are you willing to deal with the fallout from the choice? There is a AAA League right now trying to get officials to work games as a single official for 1:15 Bantam games for $45. Good luck with that, let me know how it turns out. There are 3 high schools I work games for in the winter that provide a gatorade and snickers bar for each official every game. That little gesture costs them what, $5 out of pocket? but goes such a long way! @SkiUMahLaw ‘s HS being one of them. (That school also happens to pay on the spot, and not make me fill out a Pay Voucher, W2, District Non-Employee form at each game, and then send 2 more emails in order to get paid, only to get the wrong amount and have to email again).

    Third. 90%+ of Spring/Summer/Fall hockey is un-sanctioned, or pseudo-sanctioned at best. There is zero repercussions or discipline when it comes to player behavior and most of them have figured that out. So many players act out because they know they can get away with it and only face minimal consequences at worst. When I used to officiate that hockey, that was the only time I ever had to call a butt-end, and had way more spearing penalties than ever in winter, sanctioned hockey. Dealing with that nonsense on a regular basis is not fun for anyone. NO thanks. Hard pass.

    Fourth. Many officials like an offseason too. When I worked spring/summer/fall hockey I was already burned out and angry before the regular season started. Plus I want to play golf, go up north, etc. during the summer. I don’t want to be stuck in an arena all summer, working games for $30 a pop. Enough guys put in their time by working for free (or donating game fees) during “Stick it to Cancer” tournaments, working tryout scrimmages for their local association for $10 or even free sometimes. You aren’t going to get the same treatment as a AAA Hockey league charging parents through the nose.

    As for the argument – “$45 for a 1:15 game? That’s $36/Hr That’s more than I make at my job!!” By all means; go ahead and referee fulltime and let me know how you make out in the end. Who here heard the one about all the officials who work games because “the money is so good”? Yeah, nobody. Of course almost nobody would do it if we weren’t paid, and there are always a few doing it because they need the money, but nobody is doing it because it pays so well.

    So next time your local referee association approaches the district and are asking for a $1 or $2 per game increase per official. Please think twice before getting in a tizzy and telling them to pound sand. And shaming people because you aren’t willing to increase from what you paid officials in 2010 to work games is really the wrong way to go about it.

    I will get off my soap box now.

    We really do appreciate the work you do (and not just give lip service on social media!).

    Not that you are part of this problem, but officials association leadership can help the issue– they need to modernize and recruit differently than they have in the past, and give meaningful opportunities to young officials. I’ve worked with some promising young officials who are frustrated at their inability to get into meaningful games– if only to give them good tests and a taste of the big time.

    But the rest of your post is spot on. We can do better.

    #148648 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    My kid quit reffing this year. The final straw was getting chewed out by a coach during a mite game. Got a job making $12/hr and is much happier for it.

    Softball, soccer, hockey etc need to figure out what to do it they won’t be able to hold games in the near future

    #148649 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    SkiUMahLaw wrote:


    We really do appreciate the work you do (and not just give lip service on social media!).

    Not that you are part of this problem, but officials association leadership can help the issue– they need to modernize and recruit differently than they have in the past, and give meaningful opportunities to young officials. I’ve worked with some promising young officials who are frustrated at their inability to get into meaningful games– if only to give them good tests and a taste of the big time.

    But the rest of your post is spot on. We can do better.

    Absolutely! A lot of it is very much an old boys club, and why you see the same 5-10 guys working the local Bantam AA games all the time in many locales.

    The trade is the expectation of perfection, even at the youth levels. The youth association I worked for wanted to work Bantam B1 games as 3-man, to help get guys experience when, at the time, only Bantam A games were 3 man. They was so much push-back and “we cannot afford that” that it was abandoned quickly. We even have a few guys volunteer to work games for free as a third official to get that experience in the 3-man system. But then, since it was only a few games here and there (because nobody was willing to pay for it) teams complain about other teams getting “special treatment” at it was scrapped within the same season. Or heaven forbid, a referee gets hit with the puck (85′ of ice, and you through the puck into the linesman’s skates???), and then the coaches complain “they cant even get out of the way, we need less officials out here.”

    At Squirt and PeeWee hockey, you are getting new officials who are going to make as many mistakes as the players at that same level. The hope is they learn there, and not make those same mistakes as they move up, stakes are higher, and chances for players to get hurt go up significantly. But so many parents have zero margin for error in their Squirt B2 game, that so many officials as “is this even worth it” after barely giving it a go.

    In NCAA (and Pro) hockey there is a HARD push to recruit former players as officials. And some of that is starting to pay off, the side effect being many of them are bypassing a lot of channels that your average official has to go through, and that can be extremely disheartening. But a lot of those former players have zero interest in working squirt and peewee hockey for 2 years… So I don’t have a good answer there.

    It is funny (or actually, not funny at all…). The highest level of hockey I ever worked was the ECHL, where I had an extremely brief cup of coffee, and worked several levels in between. The highest level of disrespect I have ever received from players was in NCAA Division III hockey, and it isn’t even close. The highest level of disrespect I ever received from coaches and fans was youth hockey by FAR! (other than the one off of having my tires slashed, side view mirrors broken off, and taillights smashed in the parking lot of a Waterloo Blackhawks game, but the USHL paid me back for that). I am also willing to put up with a lot more at higher levels of hockey but it was really never there. Sure there is yelling and screaming, arguments, chastising, etc. but they never crossed the line. Youth coaches and parents cross the line all the time, and get so far past it, they cant even see it anymore. For a $40 game fee!!

    Every year I hear stories from guys who get stopped in the dark parking lot at night on the way to their car after a game, worried they are going to have to call the police. Getting things thrown at them from a car in the parking lot. Having the locker room gone through while they were on the ice. Everything with youth sports has escalated to a point where it just isn’t sustainable.

    #148650 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    Orion wrote:


    My kid quit reffing this year. The final straw was getting chewed out by a coach during a mite game. Got a job making $12/hr and is much happier for it.

    Softball, soccer, hockey etc need to figure out what to do it they won’t be able to hold games in the near future

    MSHSL is asking all their officials to try a new sport. Pushing on guys to try a 2nd season. For example the hockey officials are all getting emails about Lacrosse and how easy of a transition it is, to come give it a try. I know last 2 years MSHSL basketball games have been cancelled or postponed due to a shortage of officials. Its coming soon. Hockey and Football aren’t in near as much of a pickle as some other sports, but it isn’t duckies and bunnies either.

    #148651 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    My son did his first year of officiating last year. He was a PWAA goalie and I was shocked out how little he was available to ref. Most of his income came when we were done and the in house stuff was still going.

    He got the bird from a parent of a 12U game this year. As a coach and hockey family, I kind of prepped him for it. He is beyond confident in his call and just laughed the parent off. Not all people are able to do that.

    Bottom line, we need to restrict parents from view and/or access to the refs. I get what I am saying but that’s the only way it changes.

    #148652 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    As far as the youth levels of reffing, Fightclub is spot on. There are no consequences for bad behavior by coaches and parents. It shouldn’t be on the ref to also police parent behavior. This will continue until MN hockey and individual districts decide to put actual consequences in place. One idea I have had and tried to get heard was to have a district official randomly attend youth games in the stands. Blend in and just watch. If a coach or parent has bad behavior penalize the team. Zero tolerance. Escalate it to the point where teams start losing games and teams and associations will police it themselves.

    #148653 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Orion wrote:


    As far as the youth levels of reffing, Fightclub is spot on. There are no consequences for bad behavior by coaches and parents. It shouldn’t be on the ref to also police parent behavior. This will continue until MN hockey and individual districts decide to put actual consequences in place. One idea I have had and tried to get heard was to have a district official randomly attend youth games in the stands. Blend in and just watch. If a coach or parent has bad behavior penalize the team. Zero tolerance. Escalate it to the point where teams start losing games and teams and associations will police it themselves.

    District 10 has a fair play point that can be taken away if a parent if penalized.

    Spectators may also be suspended from attending games or banned altogether, if they have multiple offenses.

    #148654 Quote
    HockeyBumHockeyBum
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    This is an interesting topic to me, and I’ve very much enjoyed reading fightclub30’s perspective on officiating since he did the job at a relatively high level.

    I’ve been thinking about giving refereeing a try in a few years when my daughter ages out of hockey and I’ll have a little more free time in the winter. The pay is nice, but my main motivation is to stay physically active and “give back” to the sport that I love.

    Doing more research on what’s involved, and seeing fightclub30’s perspective is definitely giving me pause. You expect a certain level of poor treatment, but some of these stories are so over the top, it’s no wonder nobody wants the job.

    Also, while I understand that referees have to “pay their dues”, I have no interest in starting at the very bottom (Mite/Squirt/8U/10U). I’ve played or coached hockey for 30+ years and know the rules of the game inside and out. I’m not some 15 year old who is still learning things. I’ve heard bad things about the Good Old Boys Club of being assigned games, and don’t want to deal with the political side of it.

    #148655 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    HockeyBum wrote:


    This is an interesting topic to me, and I’ve very much enjoyed reading fightclub30’s perspective on officiating since he did the job at a relatively high level.

    I’ve been thinking about giving refereeing a try in a few years when my daughter ages out of hockey and I’ll have a little more free time in the winter. The pay is nice, but my main motivation is to stay physically active and “give back” to the sport that I love.

    Doing more research on what’s involved, and seeing fightclub30’s perspective is definitely giving me pause. You expect a certain level of poor treatment, but some of these stories are so over the top, it’s no wonder nobody wants the job.

    Also, while I understand that referees have to “pay their dues”, I have no interest in starting at the very bottom (Mite/Squirt/8U/10U). I’ve played or coached hockey for 30+ years and know the rules of the game inside and out. I’m not some 15 year old who is still learning things. I’ve heard bad things about the Good Old Boys Club of being assigned games, and don’t want to deal with the political side of it.

    Ironically we need people like you to work these games to hold coaches and spectators accountable. I don’t see a 16 year old kid penalizing a parent.

    The bad behavior won’t stop until spectators are held accountable. The rule is there, it needs to be enforced.

    #148656 Quote
    skiier32skiier32
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    I am just finishing up my first year reffing and will have about 200 games reffed in that year. [mention]fightclub30[/mention] is spot on. Summer hockey is the wild wild west. Not once was I close to ejecting a kid or coach during the winter. As soon as Summer hockey started the crap started and I ejected several coaches and one player. The player I ejected because he said I was “a f**king terrible ref”. I do believe that a large part of it is that the parents pay way more money for summer than the winter and they all think little Johny is the next first rounder going to the NHL and the coaches all feel that they are coaching in game 7 of the Stanley Cup. My 13 year old also reffed this summer and is not totally sure he wants to keep going because of all the crap. My 16 year old loves it and wants to keep going.

    As far as getting started, my home district is the good ol boys club. I reffed way more games in the neighboring district because they have one scheduler for all associations. Also each district has step ratings that you need to go thru to become qualified to do upper level games. That needs to be sped up or find a different process for some refs or they do lose interest when all they are getting scheduled are U10B games.

    #148657 Quote
    VegoeVegoe
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    It is funny (or actually, not funny at all…). The highest level of hockey I ever worked was the ECHL, where I had an extremely brief cup of coffee, and worked several levels in between. The highest level of disrespect I have ever received from players was in NCAA Division III hockey, and it isn’t even close. The highest level of disrespect I ever received from coaches and fans was youth hockey by FAR! (other than the one off of having my tires slashed, side view mirrors broken off, and taillights smashed in the parking lot of a Waterloo Blackhawks game, but the USHL paid me back for that). I am also willing to put up with a lot more at higher levels of hockey but it was really never there. Sure there is yelling and screaming, arguments, chastising, etc. but they never crossed the line. Youth coaches and parents cross the line all the time, and get so far past it, they cant even see it anymore. For a $40 game fee!!

    Hockey specifically has been headed in a strange direction the past two decades. I remember talking to some refs about doing our DIII MIAC football games and how they really look forward to them because the travel is easy, the kids are respectful and the coaches get it. Maybe that’s changed as well since 2001, but I just don’t get the attitude.

    I think the only time coaching I ever really let a ref have it was during a JV hockey game where the physical stuff was just getting out of control and zero calls were being made. I did it between periods and out of sight of everyone… so not sure that it makes it better… but he did start calling everyone for their stickwork in the third period and things settled down. I once coached with a guy who before every game reminded the refs if any of his players cursed at them or the other team to just throw the flag or call a penalty — immediately draw the line — at least everyone then knew where it was.

    #148658 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    skiier32 wrote:


    I am just finishing up my first year reffing and will have about 200 games reffed in that year. fightclub30 is spot on. Summer hockey is the wild wild west. Not once was I close to ejecting a kid or coach during the winter. As soon as Summer hockey started the crap started and I ejected several coaches and one player. The player I ejected because he said I was “a f**king terrible ref”. I do believe that a large part of it is that the parents pay way more money for summer than the winter and they all think little Johny is the next first rounder going to the NHL and the coaches all feel that they are coaching in game 7 of the Stanley Cup. My 13 year old also reffed this summer and is not totally sure he wants to keep going because of all the crap. My 16 year old loves it and wants to keep going.

    As far as getting started, my home district is the good ol boys club. I reffed way more games in the neighboring district because they have one scheduler for all associations. Also each district has step ratings that you need to go thru to become qualified to do upper level games. That needs to be sped up or find a different process for some refs or they do lose interest when all they are getting scheduled are U10B games.

    On the flip side, refs let a LOT more physical play go in summer vs winter. You can’t be surprised if games get out of control if you’re (not accusing you directly) not calling the checking and slashes. We have one kid last year get a concussion from a checking from behind (not called) that put him out for the rest of the summer. This spring we played the same team and the same kid on the opposing team checked our same player form behind again. Also not called. Thankfully this year it didn’t result in a concussion.

    Each summer I have to sit my kid down and remind him that AAA hockey is more physical and to make sure he doesn’t put himself in a bad situation.

    #148659 Quote
    SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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    One of my SCSU students has refereed HS girls, done USA Hockey national tournaments, and a full complement of youth and regional work. She asked her assigner to get her a couple of boys HS games. He said maybe, then proceeded to give her girls HS games only on top of U-14 and U-12s.

    I caught him down here before a game as he was watching his son ref our JV. I asked him about the possibility of seeing her in one of our games. He just laughed at me.

    This was during COVID, when crowds were been down anyway.

    I was livid. When you combine parents with assignors who don’t see the big picture, what is the point? Not suggesting she would have been some fantastic MSHSL boys game ref, but why can’t you ease her in a little bit to see how she does— last year was the perfect time to do so!

    The associations have to find a way to break in folks and give them a taste of where they could go. And they have to honestly and earnestly tell those whose time has passed that they need to draw back a bit. But it’s clear continuing the same model they have for 50 years is not going to be a recipe for success in the future.

    #148660 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    I can tell you from personal experience, coach and parent behavior is the reason I don’t umpire traveling baseball anymore. I was an above average to good umpire compared to most of my peers, definitely not the best but I was better than most.

    I just reached a point where the headaches from parents and some coaches (namely a select few, a majority were pretty good) wasn’t worth the money. It was $40-45 per game depending on the age and whether it was league or tournaments, and basically all paid in cash which was great. But dealing with shrieking moms and dads and pissed off coaches sapped all the joy out of umpiring for me.

    I know slowpitch softball is desperate for umpires right now too. I was actually going to go do league this fall for a night or two before I got hurt.

    #148661 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    I umpired four games for girls summer softball when I was in high school. That was enough for me to know I did not want to deal with coaches and parents who criticized your every call; even way back then. I was a 15 year old kid, I think I got like $15 a game. I can’t fathom dealing with that today. Kudos to those who can put up with all the asshats.

    #148662 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    SkiUMahLaw wrote:


    He said maybe, then proceeded to give her girls HS games only on top of U-14 and U-12s.

    A couple years ago, in the HS Elite League (Fall league before HS regular season starts) a female official was working games as a warm up. She was selected to work games as a referee in the Winter Olympics. There were several players who got the boot from games she worked for comments they made; Why don’t you go work women’s hockey, this game is way too fast for you, etc. etc. When she was a better official than they had seen in awhile, and would likely see all season. It is pretty depressing. Personally, I am a HORRIBLE women’s official. I get in a zone and think “Wow, that was a nice hit” a few seconds later “Why is everyone freaking out, that was a clean hit… oh…. right….”

    My HS association has requirements to work higher level games, and while I get it, it is bizarre. Everyone wants officials with experience to get the high level games. But you need to actually work some high level games in order to get that experience. It is a chicken and egg scenario, or maybe its a catch-22.

    Vegoe wrote:


    Hockey specifically has been headed in a strange direction the past two decades. I remember talking to some refs about doing our DIII MIAC football games and how they really look forward to them because the travel is easy, the kids are respectful and the coaches get it. Maybe that’s changed as well since 2001, but I just don’t get the attitude.

    I think the only time coaching I ever really let a ref have it was during a JV hockey game where the physical stuff was just getting out of control and zero calls were being made. I did it between periods and out of sight of everyone… so not sure that it makes it better… but he did start calling everyone for their stickwork in the third period and things settled down. I once coached with a guy who before every game reminded the refs if any of his players cursed at them or the other team to just throw the flag or call a penalty — immediately draw the line — at least everyone then knew where it was.

    I don’t know what it is with many of the D-III hockey players, but there is zero sense of humor or self awareness. At the D-1 level, players apologize at TV stoppages for skating into you or firing the puck into you (as long as you were where you should be, and trying to get out of the way). D-III it is an immediate insult or personal attack. “you’re f-ing horrible ref” “I know, I am out here with you guys” “oh, go f yourself you piece of…” The mouths on these catholic school players who then all go and pray together at the end of a game… Did you not all just listen to yourselves for the last 2 hours???

    I have no problem hearing it from a player or coach when it is warranted. I make mistakes, I am a human. But there is a huge difference between “that was a horse**** call.” and “you’re f***ing horse*** ref”. I have a pretty low tolerance for personal attacks. And you just don’t hear that at higher levels of hockey. Coaches and players get upset with calls, but it rarely becomes a personal attack. A PeeWee referee screws up an icing, and the personal attacks start flying.

    I occasionally get to work with some younger officials, and I try to tell them what one supervisor told me “If you are getting paid $50 to work this game, then you need to deal with $50 of abuse, but not 1 cent more. But the nice thing is, you get to decide what $50 worth of abuse is.” So yeah, when I used to go work a men’s league game for $35 at 9:00 at night – I’ve got a pretty low bar for abuse. When I am got paid $275 to work a USHL game, I was willing to put up with a lot more, but rarely have to.

    And one of the unfortunate things is, officials who get the reputation as those who kick out players and coaches, they stopped getting scheduled pretty quickly. Which results in nobody enforcing those rules, because they all want to work, and work better games. At the pre-game captains meetings (which at HS and D-3 are like talking to a box of rocks) I try to let them know that respect is a 2-way street – you have to give it to get it back. Then a captain, who has been nothing but whining at me all game, wonders why I won’t give him the time of day late in a close game for his “free time-out” to rest guys while he whines about something unrelated to anything.

    Not all coaches and players are bad. I’ve been yelled at and listened and said “yeah, I probably missed one there.” or “I see what you’re saying, I saw it a little differently” and many are good if you hear them out and acknowledge their thoughts on a play and we can all move on. There are also coaches who ask me what a player said/did to get penalized and when I tell them, they tell me “I will take care of it.” Everyone has a bad night and sometimes I give a coach a heads up “Hey, number 8 needs to calm down for a bit, he is very close to getting penalized here.” Some coaches see what I am trying to do, some will even sit a guy a shift or 2, others give me the old “I can’t control them, what do you want me to do about it?”

    It used to be a very small number of coaches who were a problem, but I think the problem is that small number has grown. And not only grown but also become more vocal in the process. So officials are being tasked with putting up with more and more while pay for games has risen only marginally in the last decade really.

    My posts on this are getting way too long… I should go to bed for a bit. I have a ton of stories, but nobody needs to hear them all.

    EDIT: I did get to wear a helmet cam in a USHL game – nobody wanted to talk to me that night. Maybe I should strap a GoPro to my helmet for youth and MSHSL games…

    Trimmed some extraneous stuff out.

    #148663 Quote
    VegoeVegoe
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    My posts on this are getting way too long… I should go to bed for a bit. I have a ton of stories, but nobody needs to hear them all.

    [media]https://media.giphy.com/media/L4FEYn7StSqNq/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47tb77ltp1xkj0tvwnszorjz83ttci0toyy4brgczo&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/media]

    #148664 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Sounds like the beginnings of a nice article on The Athletic and or Hockey USA magazine.

    #148665 Quote
    Steve MNSteve MN
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    Definitely. Love hearing a more personal explanation of some of this. While I’ll get upset and yell at refs at the D1 level, for example… I like to think that I’d be a bit easier going at lower levels (kind of figure that by D1, you should know what you’re doing)

    Looking forward to more tales from the ice.

    #148666 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    Steve MN wrote:


    Definitely. Love hearing a more personal explanation of some of this. While I’ll get upset and yell at refs at the D1 level, for example… I like to think that I’d be a bit easier going at lower levels (kind of figure that by D1, you should know what you’re doing)

    Looking forward to more tales from the ice.

    PLEASE go easy on refs at lower levels. Most are learning and brand new. I only made it to where I did because I made a lot of mistakes. Mistakes are wonderful learning opportunities. Once you make a big enough mistake it gets etched in your brain and you make sure you never do that again. Mistakes are going to happen, live with it. Some will be in your kids favor, some won’t be. It will even out over time. Just think about how many mistakes kids make at that level, and don’t be surprised if an official makes a handful in a PeeWee B game. Plus it helps to teach kids how to handle adversity; hey, some nights it doesn’t bounce your way or you get the short straw, it happens. Rather than a mistake being a high crime and needing to be instantly corrected or rectified.

    But honestly, at the D1 level and above, hearing it from fans is typically part of the fun. I remember the first time getting boos rained down on me from 8,000 fans in my first D1 game at SCSU and one of my partners skates over winks and says “welcome to the WCHA” while flying by, I couldn’t have had a bigger smile on my face at that point in time. Which probably got a few more boos. You don’t really want to be noticed, but the jeers let you know its still a big deal. And yes, by the time you get to D1 you should know what you are doing. I’ll never forgot how upset fans get when the implement new rules (IE using hands to win a faceoff) and start screaming at the officials without realizing it is a brand new rule.

    However, the personal attacks are poor form. I remember being in the stands when Gopher fans were going after Campion one night and chanting “ref beats his wife” and things like that. All while his wife is going through cancer treatment. So don’t ever go places like that. On the other hand “Does your wife know you’re screwing us?” will usually get a chuckle. I hope people can see the difference. Random guy yelling “Get a pregnancy test ref, you just missed the last period!” funny. Random guy yelling “Ref, you f*****g suck” not funny or intelligent and rather tasteless.

    Maybe a few fun stories?

    One of the coolest things in the world, in my opinion, is coming out of a dark tunnel, pre-game crowd pump-up music blaring, lasers and stages lights flashing, taking a running start and hitting those for few strides on a freshly zammed sheet of ice. Oh man! If I could bottle up that feeling and just take a little sip from it here and there. My first game in Lincoln, NE for the USHL — goosebumps. At the time, they had a better pre-game sequence than most NHL teams.

    Being at the teddy bear toss game one year at a packed Resch Center in Green Bay was cool. GB scores in the 2nd period, lights dim, spotlights go on, music blares and thousands of teddy bears start raining from sky. Best part was not having to pick it up, just getting to observe while the arena staff took care of it. Pretty cool and fun thing just to experience.

    I was working a game in Rio Grande Valley, TX for the CHL (Rock ’em, Sock ’em hockey League). That night they had a special where if the home team scored a Power Play goal, Beer would be $2 for the next 2:00. I remember after the first PPG seeing the mad rush to the concessions. They went on to score 4 total power play goals that night, and I think we had at least 3 if not 4 fights. I had my arm up for a penalty in the third and think I got a standing ovation, haha. I think they were ready to throw me a party that night. After the game in the locker room we each had a pizza and 2 beers from the team, and the GM came down to laugh about his record sales night. Looking back, I now slightly cringe at the thought of the amount of DWIs that could’ve happened that night.

    I remember one night I flipped the puck to a 7/8 year old kid at the end of a college game, and he was so pumped. The next night I hear some banging on the glass during warmups and the parents point to the same kid, now in a referee sweater tonight. So I went to the locker room a got one of my still packaged whistles and gave it to him. The “What did you just do?” look on his parent’s face was priceless. I hope the kid gave it a shot one day, or at least is the “hey, not so hard on the refs people” guy in his group. I always tired to flip pucks to kids, give knuckles and smiles, etc. to people. I hope that if people see that we are people too, actual human beings, that we aren’t so different, maybe things will improve.

    Mankato had a company (among many) donate towards the Arena renovations and this one, I am told, specifically asked to be part of the officials room renovation. The new room was a HUGE improvement over the old one. They also made sure there was a cooler with ice and 4 tall Coors Lights in it at the end of every game regardless of outcome. How cool is that? Another game in Mankato I got my hand cut open by a players skate on a faceoff, needed 8 stitches. Team doctor, from Mayo clinic comes down and stitches me up. Checks on me between periods and before the game the next night. I never saw a bill from that. USA Hockey – I take a stick to the mouth breaking up a Jr. Gold B fight and need a crown. They tell me they don’t cover anything until I have paid $1,000 out of pocket. So the game I get paid WAY more to do, I don’t pay a dime. The game I only get paid $60 to work, I have to pay my own $750 dental deductible. Noted.

    Being an on-ice official in the WCHA (pre split) was the coolest side job I could’ve ever asked for and I am so happy I had a chance to do it for 4 seasons before the split. I had the best seat in the house to the best college hockey conference in the country 4 nights a month. It was incredible, sure plenty of games were stressful, but there were plenty of nights where we would sit around afterwards and say “can you believe we get paid to do this?” Unfortunately, things got weird after the split, things became much more business like. Still worked games, it was just never quite the same (as I am sure nearly everyone on here can attest to). Even UMD vs MTU was way more fun than MNSU vs LSSU… Ended up having a scheduling conflict and had to “turn back” a series I was scheduled for so I could travel for work. Never saw the ice again that year, the following season I was removed from the scheduling software, email & phone list, and it was all over. I left 2 voicemails and sent several emails, none of which were responded to. I never got to soak in a “last game”, take time to be the last one off the ice and give a look around. Enjoy what you have, cause you never know when it will all be over.

    NCAA Road trips were fun. Although, around the time of the split, some fans were upset about the outcome of a game and phone-filmed the officials drinking and laughing at a local bar after the game and sent it to the league. I mean, heaven forbid someone have a few cold ones and a good time after work. Suddenly you couldn’t go to a bar within a certain radius of the arena. Then some coaches got mad about guys having a beer in the locker room after the game and that got axed as well. “My guys just lost a hard fought game, and they have to walk past the officials room and see them drinking and laughing?” – oh, the horrors!!! People need to take a chill pill.

    #148667 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    For the record, the chant from Gopher fans was “the ref needs a wife” (….so he won’t screw us). Sometimes it was needs a sheep. 😬

    #148668 Quote
    Steve MNSteve MN
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    To be honest, I don’t go to any games below High School level, but even there, I expect some degree of mistakes. I’m sure I was somewhat less accommodating when I was actually in high school going to the games, of course…

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