Portal Forum Hockey Talk College Hockey NCAA Hockey 2022 Off Season

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  • #199595 Quote
    Chill KesselChill Kessel
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      I think a monkey could have led that roster to silver.

      I’d bet money you have no idea why he got the NTDP job

      #199598 Quote
      Bonin21Bonin21
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      I don’t need to take that bet because I don’t care? My point is leading that USA roster to silver at the U18s isn’t that impressive.

      #199631 Quote
      maroon and goldmaroon and gold
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        MSU could be relevant now? Scary thought.

        #199637 Quote
        Gopherguy05Gopherguy05
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          Considering the article says MSU tried to poach two current head coaches–one probably Hastings and couldn’t I’d hit the brakes on that relevant take.

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by JupiterJupiter.
          #199651 Quote
          gatorgator
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          1. Wasn’t there a rumor summer of 2020 that the B1G was looking to add an existing blue blood program to the conference? I think it was a Gopher Illustrated article that predicted one of Denver, North Dakota, or UMD would be added to the B1G. I know it sounds far fetched and that was only two times I heard that rumor BUT it was the same guy who correctly called Notre Dame joining the B1G.

          Awhile back this year I posted some UND fans demands what UND should ask to join the BIG. It was pretty funny. I’m trying to find it and repost.

          Finally found it.  This was from this past fall during the Gophers/UND series.  Some UND fan posted this on a fb NCAA hockey group or Sioux Sports. About as delusional as it gets… LoL!!!

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by gatorgator.
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          #206087 Quote
          Steve MNSteve MN
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          I don’t need to take that bet because I don’t care? My point is leading that USA roster to silver at the U18s isn’t that impressive.

          Given that it’s the NTDP that essentially provides the U18 team, and that he was the head coach that put that roster together, I think giving him a large amount of credit is in order.

          #206088 Quote
          Bonin21Bonin21
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          the NTDP that essentially provides the U18 team, and that he was the head coach that put that roster tog

          Did he? He was hired in August 2020, after the U17 team that became this U18 team would have been selected.

          #206090 Quote
          streakygopherstreakygopher
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          1. Wasn’t there a rumor summer of 2020 that the B1G was looking to add an existing blue blood program to the conference? I think it was a Gopher Illustrated article that predicted one of Denver, North Dakota, or UMD would be added to the B1G. I know it sounds far fetched and that was only two times I heard that rumor BUT it was the same guy who correctly called Notre Dame joining the B1G.

          Awhile back this year I posted some UND fans demands what UND should ask to join the BIG. It was pretty funny. I’m trying to find it and repost.

          Finally found it. This was from this past fall during the Gophers/UND series. Some UND fan posted this on a fb NCAA hockey group or Sioux Sports. About as delusional as it gets… LoL!!!

          That’s good humor and reminiscent of their baseless grandstanding before they were water boarded into changing their name.

          #206220 Quote
          SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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          1. Wasn’t there a rumor summer of 2020 that the B1G was looking to add an existing blue blood program to the conference? I think it was a Gopher Illustrated article that predicted one of Denver, North Dakota, or UMD would be added to the B1G. I know it sounds far fetched and that was only two times I heard that rumor BUT it was the same guy who correctly called Notre Dame joining the B1G.

          Awhile back this year I posted some UND fans demands what UND should ask to join the BIG. It was pretty funny. I’m trying to find it and repost.

          Finally found it. This was from this past fall during the Gophers/UND series. Some UND fan posted this on a fb NCAA hockey group or Sioux Sports. About as delusional as it gets… LoL!!!

          Lou Nanne has been quite vocal about trying to get UND into the B1G. Wisely, everyone not named MN simply rolls their eyes at him. Can’t imagine Ohio State or Penn State wanting to travel to Grand Forks. Ever.

          I think we will see ASU listed as an affiliate member for hockey here soon now that Illinois is out.

          As long as we have road trips to Tempe in January or February, I am game for that.

          #206222 Quote
          Bonin21Bonin21
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          If you let ASU in sounds like you can let UMD in, too, as someone said ASU doesn’t meet the requirements.

          #206226 Quote
          Rau4SkiUMahRau4SkiUMah
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            Obviously I’d rather have one of the three I mentioned in my last post; UND, UMD, or Denver. ASU does absolutely nothing for me. Also, Bonin21 makes a solid point, if you let in ASU then academically you can let in any of the schools I just listed. Arizona St isn’t exactly the Harvard of the SW.

            #206227 Quote
            The RubeThe Rube
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            If any of the Nachos leave the conference, it’d be simply for money, not for any sort of rivalry thing. Also, being competitive (and therefore more money/exposure, relatively) would factor in.

            Would one want to leave a conference they are dominant in, to be a cellar-dweller in a different conference?

            In the end, just follow the dollar, and you’ll have the answer.

            #206228 Quote
            CowgirlCowgirl
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            I have zero interest anymore in playing the fawks several times a year.  Mainly because I abhor their fan base.

            Denver would be cool.  But obviously having to form the big ten because we had a certain number of teams was just a farce since they’ll let non-big ten teams in and probably realign everything in the future anyways.

            #206229 Quote
            SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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            If you let ASU in sounds like you can let UMD in, too, as someone said ASU doesn’t meet the requirements.

            Notre Dame isn’t AAU either.

            But they’re a national name and a P5 equivalent school.

            That’s the new NCAA and the lens the B1G will be looking through.  They (ASU) fit the profile better than anyone else except maybe BC, as Army and Air Force aren’t in the table.

             

            #206230 Quote
            Bonin21Bonin21
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            Would one want to leave a conference they are dominant in, to be a cellar-dweller in a different conference?

            You don’t seriously think UMD, UND, or DU would be a cellar dweller in the Big Ten, I hope.

            As far as I know those are the three teams that have been to the FF the most since the conference shakeup.

            #206231 Quote
            The RubeThe Rube
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            Would one want to leave a conference they are dominant in, to be a cellar-dweller in a different conference?

            You don’t seriously think UMD, UND, or DU would be a cellar dweller in the Big Ten, I hope.

             

            DU could be. UND could be. tUMD? Prob not. And remember, this is all relative. Basically, not dominant year in and year out. Those three are the haves in the Nacho. SCSU was for a bit, they faltered hard this year.

            #206232 Quote
            Bonin21Bonin21
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            DU could be. UND could be. tUMD? Prob not. And remember, this is all relative. Basically, not dominant year in and year out. Those three are the haves in the Nacho. SCSU was for a bit, they faltered hard this year.

            UMD is the top hockey program of the last 10 years…

            #206235 Quote
            The RubeThe Rube
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            DU could be. UND could be. tUMD? Prob not. And remember, this is all relative. Basically, not dominant year in and year out. Those three are the haves in the Nacho. SCSU was for a bit, they faltered hard this year.

            UMD is the top hockey program of the last 10 years…

             

            I said “prob not.” ;) Also have not played a full conf sched with MI/MN/ND/OSU, etc. So who knows?

            #206238 Quote
            JupiterJupiter
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            Also have not played a full conf sched with MI/MN/ND/OSU, etc. So who knows?

            Just stop…

            #206245 Quote
            thinkbuithinkbui
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              Well, my dislike for ASU and their coach stems from Jacob Wilson and other players like that that Greg Powers has brought into their program, but even if that ends now that Wilson’s used his COVID year, I don’t see any real benefit to their joining as an affiliate.  I know people want to point to playing in warm weather on a campus full of hot chicks as things that will attract good players, but if that really was a big factor, shouldn’t Powers’ numbers have already surpassed those of Brush Christiansen’s at UAA 7 seasons in?

              One thing to keep in mind is that Notre Dame joining as an affiliate didn’t come without a HUGE side benefit, a foot in the door to woo their independent football program into the B1G along with the rest of their athletics away from the ACC, so the conference’s decision to look the other way about the AAU thing for them most likely had nothing to do with hockey.  If the conference desperately wanted an 8th team, I could see the folks in Rosemont inviting UMD in on a technicality, but I wouldn’t call the current state of affairs as desperate, so they’re probably going to sit on their hands until either a current B1G member outside of hockey (including Johns Hopkins) decides to start a hockey program or a golden opportunity like Notre Dame was comes along.

              #206246 Quote
              IdontknowIdontknow
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              Even if UMD was invited to the Big Ten, would they want to join?  Would the money be too enticing?

              #206251 Quote
              gatorgator
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              Even if UMD was invited to the Big Ten, would they want to join? Would the money be too enticing?

              I would bet any of the NCHC or Minnesota colleges would trip over themselves to join… especially UND.

              #206271 Quote
              bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                Well, I know people want to point to playing in warm weather on a campus full of hot chicks as things that will attract good players, but if that really was a big factor.

                Aside from another BIG school (that currently doesn’t have a D1 hockey program) starting one, I think Arizona State would make a good 8th (affiliate) team in the conference. Give it some time…eventually the perk of playing D1 hockey in the desert will pay off (at) Arizona State U and they will field a very competitive team. ☝️

                • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                #206278 Quote
                IdontknowIdontknow
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                Well, I know people want to point to playing in warm weather on a campus full of hot chicks as things that will attract good players, but if that really was a big factor.

                Aside from another BIG school (that currently doesn’t have a D1 hockey program) starting one…I think Arizona State would make a good 8th school in the conference. Give it some time…eventually the perk of playing D1 hockey in the desert will pay off for Arizona State U and they will field a very competitive team.

                 

                It would be a very very fun place to play some hockey and get an education.

                • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by IdontknowIdontknow.
                #206284 Quote
                Bonin21Bonin21
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                It would be a very very fun place to be a hockey player

                Stated another way. We already see it with all the older guys that transfer there. They know what being on that campus entails.

                #206285 Quote
                bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                  It would be a very very fun place to be a hockey player

                  Stated another way. We already see it with all the older guys that transfer there. They know what being on that campus entails.

                  Mark my words, eventually it will translate to success on the ice, especially after they build their new rink & training facilities! 🥅

                  • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                  #206286 Quote
                  Bonin21Bonin21
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                  That is not really a bold prediction

                  #206288 Quote
                  SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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                  Keep in mind the B1G is set to sign a 1B media package deal in the next month or so.  That is how the B1G looks at this: which programs will provide the best value from a media package approach.  It isn’t necessarily about creating the best games, but about controlling the media market.

                  Outside the B1G, the best media value is clearly from Boston College and maybe Boston U, both being in a major market and having a ton of alumni who are invested in those programs.  It clearly was on their backs that ESPN picked up a huge Hockey East media deal which will provide major visibility hitting the entire country but focused on New England.  They’re not likely to jump ship from Hockey East for logistical reasons.

                  If you propose UND, UMD or DU in that conversation, you have to remember that the best rights deal they could get with the NCHC was through a partial deal with CBS College Sports and a local deal through Midco.  That reflects how the demand for those hockey schools is actually perceived in the media world.

                  ASU is a school in a major market with tons of invested alumni locally, also where lots of B1G alumni winter, and plays in a similar institutional conference sandbox (the PAC-12).  Cooperating with the PAC-12 would give the B1G access to the LA/SF/Denver/Seattle/Portland/SLC markets as well.  They are poised to be a solid hockey program with a new rink that will also host a NHL squad for a while.  It is basically another Penn State, and you can’t tell me that even the old WCHA or CCHA would have turned down Penn State if they wanted to join.

                  • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw.
                  #206291 Quote
                  Bonin21Bonin21
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                  You are overestimating how much hockey plays into their decision making. How much do you think hockey factors into that $1B valuation? If I had to guess, like $10MM.

                  Yes, I think most of us agree ASU is the easy option. Beyond that, a local school would add something sorely lacking from the fan side. Another road trip opportunity, which is a huge thing in our niche sport.

                  #206292 Quote
                  bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                    Keep in mind the B1G is set to sign a 1B media package deal in the next month or so. That is how the B1G looks at this: which programs will provide the best value from a media package approach. It isn’t necessarily about creating the best games, but about controlling the media market. Outside the B1G, the best media value is clearly from Boston College and maybe Boston U, both being in a major market and having a ton of alumni who are invested in those programs. It clearly was on their backs that ESPN picked up a huge Hockey East media deal which will provide major visibility hitting the entire country but focused on New England. They’re not likely to jump ship from Hockey East for logistical reasons. If you propose UND, UMD or DU in that conversation, you have to remember that the best rights deal they could get with the NCHC was through a partial deal with CBS College Sports and a local deal through Midco. That reflects how the demand for those hockey schools is actually perceived in the media world. ASU is a school in a major market with tons of invested alumni locally, also where lots of B1G alumni winter, and plays in a similar institutional conference sandbox (the PAC-12). Cooperating with the PAC-12 would give the B1G access to the LA/SF/Denver/Seattle/Portland/SLC markets as well. They are poised to be a solid hockey program with a new rink that will also host a NHL squad for a while. It is basically another Penn State, and you can’t tell me that even the old WCHA or CCHA would have turned down Penn State if they wanted to join.

                    Long Term…ASU…and for all the reasons stated above, is potentially even better than Penn State (in terms of media value).

                    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                    #206294 Quote
                    gatorgator
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                    If you propose UND, UMD or DU in that conversation, you have to remember that the best rights deal they could get with the NCHC was through a partial deal with CBS College Sports and a local deal through Midco. That reflects how the demand for those hockey schools is actually perceived in the media world.

                    #206295 Quote
                    g-manpuckg-manpuck
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                    Can we just move on?!

                    #206296 Quote
                    Bonin21Bonin21
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                    Or reflects demand for college hockey in general.

                    #206297 Quote
                    Bonin21Bonin21
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                    Can we just move on?!

                    From what? Obviously the Big Ten will look to add someone at some point. Probably ASU. But it’s not insane to think about singular other schools that could join. This is not the “blow up the Big Ten” discussion.

                    #206298 Quote
                    bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                      Can we just move on?!

                      lol…or maybe U just don’t bother to read this 😉

                      #206299 Quote
                      maroon and goldmaroon and gold
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                        So if Illinois is out, what other current B1G members would be reasonable to add ice hockey? I always thought Northwestern would be a no brainer, being in the Chicago area. Rutgers in New Jersey is a prime hockey area of the country. After that it’s pretty slim. Hockey is not as big in Iowa as all their USHL teams make it seem.

                        #206300 Quote
                        SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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                        You are overestimating how much hockey plays into their decision making. How much do you think hockey factors into that $1B valuation? If I had to guess, like $10MM. Yes, I think most of us agree ASU is the easy option. But a local school would add something sorely lacking from the fan side. Another road trip opportunity, which is a huge thing in our niche sport.

                         

                        What is the value of the Gopher contract with BSN extrapolated over the term of the years?  Then add the same for Michigan, MSU and Bucky?  That is the way to figure that out.  Of course hockey isn’t driving the bus, but if you think they will leave money on the table so Gopher fans get a convenient road trip, you are kidding yourself.  What additional value will UND/UMD/DU/SCSU/MSUM provide to that 1B?

                        Any chance to build leverage for additional monies is a good one.  Cooperation with the PAC-12 is huge for media purposes. This is not a secret and is a major reason why the BCS amendment to increase number of schools in the football playoff wasn’t passed.

                        Do you really think a NCHC school will use bringing ASU aboard the B1G as a negative in a recruiting battle?

                        I should not have made it so accusatory toward you.  But for those advocating for anyone other than ASU, you really should give a financial reason instead of a hockey reason.

                         

                        • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw.
                        #206301 Quote
                        Bonin21Bonin21
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                        Agree Northwestern would be best for us as fans with it in road trip distance.

                        #206303 Quote
                        Bonin21Bonin21
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                        What is the value of the Gopher contract with BSN extrapolated over the term of the years? Then add the same for Michigan, MSU and Bucky? That is the way to figure that out. Of course hockey isn’t driving the bus, but if you think they will leave money on the table so Gopher fans get a convenient road trip, you are kidding yourself. What additional value will UND/UMD/DU/SCSU/MSUM provide to that 1B? Any chance to build leverage for additional monies is a good one. Cooperation with the PAC-12 is huge for media purposes. This is not a secret and is a major reason why the BCS amendment to increase number of schools in the football playoff wasn’t passed. Do you really think a NCHC school will use bringing ASU aboard the B1G as a negative in a recruiting battle?

                        I am not advising against ASU… Let’s call that a given for now.

                        I’m asking what detriment does UMD bring to the equation? Do you really think if you asked the average college football or basketball fan they could tell you Notre Dame plays Big Ten hockey? No, and it would be the same for UMD. It would not hurt the brand.

                        And the upside? An increased chance at a national title for “Big Ten hockey”.

                        #206304 Quote
                        gatorgator
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                        So if Illinois is out, what other current B1G members would be reasonable to add ice hockey? I always thought Northwestern would be a no brainer, being in the Chicago area. Rutgers in New Jersey is a prime hockey area of the country. After that it’s pretty slim. Hockey is not as big in Iowa as all their USHL teams make it seem.

                        I agree on Northwestern being the best fit for the BIG.  Though is there enough Northwestern fans, Rutgers fans or fans who’ll become fans of those programs to support the program.  Same for Iowa. It’ easy to to they’ll have fans, but what kind and how large of a financially fan base.

                        #206307 Quote
                        bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                          What is the value of the Gopher contract with BSN extrapolated over the term of the years? Then add the same for Michigan, MSU and Bucky? That is the way to figure that out. Of course hockey isn’t driving the bus, but if you think they will leave money on the table so Gopher fans get a convenient road trip, you are kidding yourself. What additional value will UND/UMD/DU/SCSU/MSUM provide to that 1B? Any chance to build leverage for additional monies is a good one. Cooperation with the PAC-12 is huge for media purposes. This is not a secret and is a major reason why the BCS amendment to increase number of schools in the football playoff wasn’t passed. Do you really think a NCHC school will use bringing ASU aboard the B1G as a negative in a recruiting battle?

                          I am not advising against ASU… Let’s call that a given for now. I’m asking what detriment does UMD bring to the equation? Do you really think if you asked the average college football or basketball fan they could tell you Notre Dame plays Big Ten hockey? No, and it would be the same for UMD. It would not hurt the brand.

                          As a UMD alum, sure UMD would love being dealt into the 💰 associated with being a BIG affiliate member, that’s a no brainer. But regarding schools fitting into the BIG (as an affiliate) Arizona State simply fits better, based on size, campus, academics and other sports. Again, from a long term perspective, ASU is a diamond in the rough with huge upside down the road. ☝️

                          • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                          #206310 Quote
                          Bonin21Bonin21
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                          As a UMD alum, sure UMD would love being dealt into the  associated with being a BIG affiliate member, that’s a no brainer. But regarding schools fitting into the BIG (as an affiliate) Arizona State simply fits better, based on size, campus, academics and other sports. Again, from a long term perspective, ASU is a diamond in the rough with huge upside down the road.

                          Again, I’m not saying no to ASU… And obviously if they get to 8 they won’t care to add a 9th and make it odd again.

                          #206312 Quote
                          SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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                          What is the value of the Gopher contract with BSN extrapolated over the term of the years? Then add the same for Michigan, MSU and Bucky? That is the way to figure that out. Of course hockey isn’t driving the bus, but if you think they will leave money on the table so Gopher fans get a convenient road trip, you are kidding yourself. What additional value will UND/UMD/DU/SCSU/MSUM provide to that 1B? Any chance to build leverage for additional monies is a good one. Cooperation with the PAC-12 is huge for media purposes. This is not a secret and is a major reason why the BCS amendment to increase number of schools in the football playoff wasn’t passed. Do you really think a NCHC school will use bringing ASU aboard the B1G as a negative in a recruiting battle?

                          I am not advising against ASU… Let’s call that a given for now. I’m asking what detriment does UMD bring to the equation? Do you really think if you asked the average college football or basketball fan they could tell you Notre Dame plays Big Ten hockey? No, and it would be the same for UMD. It would not hurt the brand. And the upside? An increased chance at a national title for “Big Ten hockey”.

                           

                          Won’t hurt the B1G brand? Hardly. It may not hurt the hockey brand, but it will hurt the overall brand.

                          The detriment is an expectation of a share of B1G revenue and a diminution of the reputation of a premier brand in sports by the inclusion of a school nobody outside of MN can find on a map.  Will winning a national title add increased revenues to offset that?  What if they don’t win a national title (as only one school per year does, and remember that Michigan Tech as the team of the 1970s too, and where are they now?)?

                          The B1G isn’t going to make decisions based on past reputation, but on future promise.  UMD is still a program to be reckoned with, but they have no natural advantages that can provide any guarantees to any promise.

                           

                           

                           

                          #206313 Quote
                          gatorgator
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                          Pretty much like what I’ve said before… it’s what can you bring to the table for the BIG, not what the BIG can bring for you.

                          #206314 Quote
                          Bonin21Bonin21
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                          The detriment is an expectation of a share of B1G revenue

                          Do we know what share Notre Dame gets? This is not related to the rest of the discussion but curious. I imagine it’s very, very little.

                          #206317 Quote
                          SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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                          The detriment is an expectation of a share of B1G revenue

                          Do we know what share Notre Dame gets? This is not related to the rest of the discussion but curious. I imagine it’s very, very little.

                           

                          I think one of the agreements was to allow ND to keep its existing media deal with NBC Sports.  That is worth a ton to the Golden Domers.

                           

                          At the same time, ND was in a bit of an issue because it logistically could not stay in Hockey East and the NCHC and WCHA provided no benefit to them for that media deal.  So the B1G had a pretty good leverage over them.  ND also has donors that could write a check for anything it wants to do, so their need for a share isn’t as important as maintaining some independence.

                           

                          UMD does not need to leave the NCHC, has minimal media revenue, and its road would get exponentially tougher in the B1G, as well as an increase in their costs to keep up with B1G facilities and recruiting.  It better get a share of something or it cannot afford to jump.

                           

                           

                          #206323 Quote
                          Bonin21Bonin21
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                          and its road would get exponentially tougher in the B1G

                          Its road for what? They are in the toughest conference.

                          But yes, the costs skyrocket when you have to fly everywhere and they probably can’t afford it.

                          #206324 Quote
                          bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                            The detriment is an expectation of a share of B1G revenue

                            Do we know what share Notre Dame gets? This is not related to the rest of the discussion but curious. I imagine it’s very, very little.

                            I think one of the agreements was to allow ND to keep its existing media deal with NBC Sports. That is worth a ton to the Golden Domers. At the same time, ND was in a bit of an issue because it logistically could not stay in Hockey East and the NCHC and WCHA provided no benefit to them for that media deal. So the B1G had a pretty good leverage over them. ND also has donors that could write a check for anything it wants to do, so their need for a share isn’t as important as maintaining some independence. UMD does not need to leave the NCHC, has minimal media revenue, and its road would get exponentially tougher in the B1G, as well as an increase in their costs to keep up with B1G facilities and recruiting. It better get a share of something or it cannot afford to jump.

                            UMD would jump for only one reason…💰💰💰. As far as “it’s road (competitively speaking) wound get exponentially tougher in the BIG”?, I’m not sure what you’re talking about lol…as they currently play in the most competitive conference, by the numbers it isn’t even close…especially based on who’s won the Natty the past decade + 2 years.

                            And as far as UMD having no natural advantages going forward in the future…the fact is they had significantly less natural advantages Fall of 2010.

                            • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                            #206333 Quote
                            maroon and goldmaroon and gold
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                              Different topic: gonna be a weird year in the NCHC. I only have UND, UMD, and Denver making the NCAAs. St Cloud, Western and Omaha lose their whole teams. Potential up year for CC? The door is definitely wide open.

                              #206342 Quote
                              SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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                              Not to belabor the point, but the bottom PWR this past year year for NCHC teams were CC and Miami at 45 and 46 respectively, with Bucky and Michigan State 36/37.  Penn State and Omaha were 25 and 23 (virtual wash). and the rest of both conferences were all in the top 15.  Keep in mind that UMD is one of those.

                               

                              Year before that, UND was the only NCHC school in the top 10 for PWR, and MN and WI represented the B1G there at 4 and 8.

                               

                              COVID year, both conferences had 3 teams in top 14.  Lowest team from both conferences was Miami at 44 and CC was at 40, worst B1G school was 32 (Bucky).

                               

                              So yeah, the top grouping is approximately the same (if anything, maybe one standout NCHC school a little higher than the B1G), and the B1G bottom is probably better than the NCHC bottom.  Take UMD from the NCHC equation and substitute it into the B1G for my point, and it would be a tougher grind for the Dogs based on recent history.

                               

                              Maybe exponential is a stretch, but a regular season with 8 more games against stronger opponents would be tougher in the B1G.  And championships of single-game elimination tournaments is not necessarily indicative of strength of conference schedule.

                              #206344 Quote
                              Bonin21Bonin21
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                              NCHC is better and a tougher grind. Period. Miami and CC get pounded because the other six are so much better. They are probably kept in the conference because it benefits the others to have doormats.

                              Miami/CC and uw/MSU are a wash. Omaha would beat PSU/OSU in a series. Beyond that you have five teams that made the tournament from the NCHC and three from the Big Ten.

                              Look at titles, title appearances, and Frozen Fours since the realignment. NCHC domination. People just don’t like to admit the hockey is better cuz the Gophers are not part of it.

                              #206347 Quote
                              bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                                NCHC is better and a tougher grind. Period. Miami and CC get pounded because the other six are so much better. They are probably kept in the conference because it benefits the others to have doormats. Miami/CC and uw/MSU are a wash. Omaha would beat PSU/OSU in a series. Beyond that you have five teams that made the tournament from the NCHC and three from the Big Ten. Look at titles, title appearances, and Frozen Fours since the realignment. NCHC domination. People just don’t like to admit the hockey is better cuz the Gophers are not part of it.

                                Bonin…you’re going to get 🔥 by many GPLers for this take…but it’s accurate. Since 2011, NCHC has won 6 NCAA titles, the BIG – a goose egg & since 2015…5 of 6 national championships, a virtual  It may be a one & done format , but in the end it’s what counts & is  remembered.

                                • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                                #206350 Quote
                                SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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                                NCHC is better and a tougher grind. Period. Miami and CC get pounded because the other six are so much better. They are probably kept in the conference because it benefits the others to have doormats. Miami/CC and uw/MSU are a wash. Omaha would beat PSU/OSU in a series. Beyond that you have five teams that made the tournament from the NCHC and three from the Big Ten. Look at titles, title appearances, and Frozen Fours since the realignment. NCHC domination. People just don’t like to admit the hockey is better cuz the Gophers are not part of it.

                                Except the numbers don’t bear that out over the last three years, particularly at the bottom end.  Miami and CC are struggling even in non-conf games, which is why the strong PWR of the top end can’t bail them out.

                                 

                                (By the way, alleging that NCHC teams would beat B1G in a series and using a single-game tournament results as your proof, all to attempt to refute the numbers that do provide some objectivity into the equation, is a logical fallacy)

                                • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw.
                                #206353 Quote
                                Bonin21Bonin21
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                                (By the way, alleging that NCHC teams would beat B1G in a series and using a single-game tournament results as your proof, all to attempt to refute the numbers that do provide some objectivity into the equation, is a logical fallacy)

                                I’m not saying that. If the NCAA tournament were best of three series all the way, the NCHC would as good or better as they already do.

                                #206356 Quote
                                bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                                  NCHC is better and a tougher grind. Period. Miami and CC get pounded because the other six are so much better. They are probably kept in the conference because it benefits the others to have doormats. Miami/CC and uw/MSU are a wash. Omaha would beat PSU/OSU in a series. Beyond that you have five teams that made the tournament from the NCHC and three from the Big Ten. Look at titles, title appearances, and Frozen Fours since the realignment. NCHC domination. People just don’t like to admit the hockey is better cuz the Gophers are not part of it.

                                  Except the numbers don’t bear that out over the last three years, particularly at the bottom end. Miami and CC are struggling even in non-conf games, which is why the strong PWR of the top end can’t bail them out. (By the way, alleging that NCHC teams would beat B1G in a series and using a single-game tournament results as your proof, all to attempt to refute the numbers that do provide some objectivity into the equation, is a logical fallacy)

                                  Picking a small sample size, 3 years is why your numbers are what they are. Regular season results aren’t necessarily indicative of overall results. It’s arguing tomato vs Tumato 😉 but I can appreciate your loyalty to the BIG conference vs the NACHO 😉

                                  • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                                  #206359 Quote
                                  trixR4kidstrixR4kids
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                                    Michigan probably would’ve won it all last year if it was best of three but whatever.

                                    Guessing the NCHC has been better since it’s inception if we look at PWR over that entire period but SUML is right about the last three years, it’s about even. And using the NCAA tourney as a metric is silly because Denver had 5 shots thru two periods of the championship game and had no business winning it but luck and hot goaltending were on their side that day (same with Duluth the year they barely snuck in and won it).

                                    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by trixR4kidstrixR4kids.
                                    #206360 Quote
                                    Bonin21Bonin21
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                                    Yes Michigan and MN would be at or near the top of the NCHC, too. But as a conference, come on.

                                    #206362 Quote
                                    SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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                                    Trying to use results of 4 years ago to predict future performance isn’t helpful.  Even using the COVID year is problematic.

                                     

                                    Sure, if we look at post realignment the NCHC has the edge– we all know that. But if we look since 1960? 1970? That is what the B1G was built on itself– long term performance of these teams.

                                    Intra-conference over the past three years– NCHC vs B1G H2H is 1 game in favor of the B1G.  So the trend is that the B1G is on the rise while the NCHC is either stable or having their bottom drop out.  They cannot keep pace with their top end, which isn’t surprising given the NCHC institutions and their limited resources compared to B1G schools.

                                    Take UMD out of the NCHC (which was the original discussion point) and the NCHC looks even more different.

                                    The parity in the B1G is becoming far tighter, and while the parity in the NCHC was originally quite impressive, you are seeing two schools separate themselves.  With CC getting a new facility maybe that changes, but MSU has a new coach too, and Bucky is one year removed from a top 10 team and had a ton of early departures– and that is your B1G bottom end.

                                     

                                    #206363 Quote
                                    Bonin21Bonin21
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                                    But if we look since 1960? 1970?

                                    Lol

                                    #206369 Quote
                                    bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                                      You can make an argument the BIG was better in 21-22, (than the NCHC) based on 2 teams making the Frozen Four vs 1 NCHC team, but then Denver wins it. ☝️ And 5 NCHC teams made the tourney 16 vs 3 BIG teams. Also in 20-21 two NCHC schools in the Frozen Four vs zero BIG schools. In 19-20, Covid prevented the defending (2 time) champion team (featuring the  Hobey winner) from taking 3peat shot

                                      • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                                      #206385 Quote
                                      g-manpuckg-manpuck
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                                      No matter how you want to spin conference alignments in the west right now it comes down to money and appearances.  When Minnesota and Wisconsin left the WCHA it was because that’s where their money comes from…the B1G.  Those other teams left the WCHA to form the NCHC for appearances.  The CCHA reformed to exclude the Alaska schools and Alabama both for money(travel costs) and appearances of a tougher conference.

                                      Neither UMD or UND pass either one of those tests to be able to join the B1G.  They just need to worry about their own little space and the B1G will worry about theirs.

                                      #206386 Quote
                                      trixR4kidstrixR4kids
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                                        You can make an argument the BIG was better in 21-22, (than the NCHC) based on 2 teams making the Frozen Four vs 1 NCHC team, but then Denver wins it. ☝️ And 5 NCHC teams made the tourney 16 vs 3 BIG teams. Also in 20-21 two NCHC schools in the Frozen Four vs zero BIG schools. In 19-20, Covid prevented the defending (2 time) champion team (featuring the Hobey winner) from taking 3peat shot

                                        Or you can make a more accurate argument with PWR like SUML did. I agree that the B1G isn’t exponentially better and he did walk that back but his methodology makes more sense than using a smaller sample of results that are more prone to randomness.

                                        #206392 Quote
                                        HammyHammy
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                                          Conferences will have their ebbs and flows. Frankly, this conversation is ridiculous because it is never going to stay in favor of any one entity all the time. If you have been around college hockey long enough, you know how things change.

                                          The problem with the B1G has been it needs to have a few more programs find more year to year quality consistency. Outside of the Gophers and Michigan (well… Mel?), this has largely not happened.

                                          UW has got to get its shit together. That program has been far and away the biggest disappointment in the B1G since the conference started. I don’t think anybody would have sanely predicted when all of the conference changes went down that UW would be as sucky as it has been. They were expected to be one of the torch carriers for the conference and they have done a shit job. They have let down the conference more than anybody. Heck, a few people on here were about to anoint them dynasty status the minute they hired their current staff and we have seen how that has turned out. Yes, Gopher fans hate UW but it is ridiculous for that school to have such shitty results. They need an enema over there.

                                          Notre Dame and Ohio State have had their moments. Good schools, good facilities, and the capability of landing talent. Not sure Jackson is the long term solution at Notre Dame though (my feeling). I think some new blood with some fire in the belly would be better.

                                          Penn State has done fine considering it was starting from scratch but it will need to find some consistency to get to that next rung.

                                          We’ll see if a change in leadership helps MSU.

                                          • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by HammyHammy.
                                          #206396 Quote
                                          bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                                            Conferences will have their ebbs and flows. Frankly, this conversation is ridiculous because it is never going to stay in favor of any one entity all the time. If you have been around college hockey long enough, you know how things change. The problem with the B1G has been it needs to have a few more programs find more year to year quality consistency. Outside of the Gophers and Michigan (well… Mel?), this has largely not happened. UW has got to get its shit together. That program has been far and away the biggest disappointment in the B1G since the conference started. I don’t think anybody would have sanely predicted when all of the conference changes went down that UW would be as sucky as it has been. They were expected to be one of the torch carriers for the conference and they have done a shit job. They have let down the conference more than anybody. Heck, a few people on here were about to anoint them dynasty status the minute they hired their current staff and we have seen how that has turned out. Yes, Gopher fans hate UW but it is ridiculous for that school to have such shitty results. They need an enema over there. Notre Dame and Ohio State have had their moments. Good schools, good facilities, and the capability of landing talent. Not sure Jackson is the long term solution at Notre Dame though (my feeling). I think some new blood with some fire in the belly would be better. Penn State has done fine considering it was starting from scratch but it will need to find some consistency to get to that next rung. We’ll see if a change in leadership helps MSU.

                                            Agree on Wisconsin, they’ve been an overall BUST since realignment. This conversation started today discussion an 8th (affiliate) BIG school…then went off the rails. Absent an existing school joining the party, I maintain that Arizona State makes the most sense.

                                            #206401 Quote
                                            JoeGopherJoeGopher
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                                              If you let ASU in sounds like you can let UMD in, too, as someone said ASU doesn’t meet the requirements.

                                              Notre Dame isn’t AAU either. But they’re a national name and a P5 equivalent school. That’s the new NCAA and the lens the B1G will be looking through. They (ASU) fit the profile better than anyone else except maybe BC, as Army and Air Force aren’t in the table.

                                               

                                              When the BiG went through the first major expansion, Nebraska didn’t meet any of the academic requirements, and yet…

                                              #206403 Quote
                                              thinkbuithinkbui
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                                                Well, I know people want to point to playing in warm weather on a campus full of hot chicks as things that will attract good players, but if that really was a big factor.

                                                Aside from another BIG school (that currently doesn’t have a D1 hockey program) starting one, I think Arizona State would make a good 8th (affiliate) team in the conference. Give it some time…eventually the perk of playing D1 hockey in the desert will pay off (at) Arizona State U and they will field a very competitive team. ☝️

                                                We’ll have to see.  As I said in that part of the sentence you chopped off in the quote, I’m still convinced it should have happened already with all the things Powers has on top of playing in the desert.  I’ll agree that they probably won’t be UAH 2.0 or, more locally, NAU 2.0 because ASU has Pac-12 resources, but at the same time, ASU has Pac-12 resources.

                                                If ASU really is sitting on a golden goose, the only real handicap I can see that might explain their slower rise compared to that of PSU (who didn’t have the desert, portal, Pac-12, etc) is that Powers doesn’t have Guy Gadowsky’s resume, but I keep being told that’s unimportant for reasons still unknown to me.

                                                #206404 Quote
                                                maroon and goldmaroon and gold
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                                                  NCHC has been better since realignment but the B1G is a helluva conference and closing the gap quickly.

                                                  #206406 Quote
                                                  MNGophers29MNGophers29
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                                                  Its already difficult learning to navigate the new site, but to have to scroll through post after post of dumb conference bantering….tough to visit here.

                                                  #206412 Quote
                                                  bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                                                    Its already difficult learning to navigate the new site, but to have to scroll through post after post of dumb conference bantering….tough to visit here.

                                                    Well…that’s YOUR opinion…everybody’s got one of those…like a body part I won’t mention. 😉🤣

                                                    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                                                    #206418 Quote
                                                    bearpaw28bearpaw28
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                                                      Minnesota Duluth received a late commitment for the 2022-23 season on Wednesday from the USA Hockey National Team Development Program’s Cole Spicer, a 17-year-old center and potential 2022 NHL Draft prospect.Spicer just completed his second season with the NTDP playing alongside another incoming UMD freshman forward, Isaac Howard. Spicer finished with 20 goals and 19 assists in 58 games, including three goals and two assists playing with Howard on the U.S. Under-18 Men’s National Team at the 2022 IIHF U18 Men’s World Championship in Germany. Spicer called Howard “one of my best friends” having played with him prior to joining the NTDP. He’s excited to continue playing with Howard in Duluth this fall. “Him and I have gotten very close over the last couple years, he’s always joking around and egging me on,” Spicer said. “We’ve been such good friends the last couple years. Going to college with him, playing with him is a dream come true.”                                                                         Spicer said the Bulldogs, with all their history, were originally among his top two choices when he originally committed to North Dakota as a freshman at Grand Forks Central High School.

                                                      • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by bearpaw28bearpaw28.
                                                      #206424 Quote
                                                      Don Adam's Wheel of JusticeDon Adam’s Wheel of Justice
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                                                      Its already difficult learning to navigate the new site, but to have to scroll through post after post of dumb conference bantering….tough to visit here.

                                                      I especially miss the ignore feature now that Bonin and Chill Kessel account for 80% of all posts.

                                                      • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Don Adam's Wheel of JusticeDon Adam's Wheel of Justice.
                                                      #206448 Quote
                                                      thinkbuithinkbui
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                                                        Its already difficult learning to navigate the new site, but to have to scroll through post after post of dumb conference bantering….tough to visit here.

                                                        We could always steer the discussion in another direction, though the only news story this week still worth talking about is the puzzling Mel Pearson situation and we’re waiting for the next nugget to drop so we can dissect it.  Michigan certainly is being suspiciously tightlipped about this and it’d be both ironic and fitting if we had to submit a FOIA request after all this is done just to find out what the heck is going on.

                                                        #206451 Quote
                                                        VikingViking
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                                                        If you let ASU in sounds like you can let UMD in, too, as someone said ASU doesn’t meet the requirements.

                                                        Notre Dame isn’t AAU either. But they’re a national name and a P5 equivalent school. That’s the new NCAA and the lens the B1G will be looking through. They (ASU) fit the profile better than anyone else except maybe BC, as Army and Air Force aren’t in the table.

                                                        When the BiG went through the first major expansion, Nebraska didn’t meet any of the academic requirements, and yet…

                                                        Nebraska was an AAU member when they joined the B1G Ten.

                                                        #206480 Quote
                                                        gatorgator
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                                                        JoeGopher wrote:When the BiG went through the first major expansion, Nebraska didn’t meet any of the academic requirements, and yet…

                                                        Nebraska was an AAU member when they joined the B1G Ten.

                                                        If I recall Nebraska (Lincoln) lost their AAU status cause it had to do with their medical school being moved to Nebraska (Omaha).

                                                        #206488 Quote
                                                        SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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                                                        Well, I know people want to point to playing in warm weather on a campus full of hot chicks as things that will attract good players, but if that really was a big factor.

                                                        Aside from another BIG school (that currently doesn’t have a D1 hockey program) starting one, I think Arizona State would make a good 8th (affiliate) team in the conference. Give it some time…eventually the perk of playing D1 hockey in the desert will pay off (at) Arizona State U and they will field a very competitive team. ☝️

                                                        We’ll have to see. As I said in that part of the sentence you chopped off in the quote, I’m still convinced it should have happened already with all the things Powers has on top of playing in the desert. I’ll agree that they probably won’t be UAH 2.0 or, more locally, NAU 2.0 because ASU has Pac-12 resources, but at the same time, ASU has Pac-12 resources.
                                                        If ASU really is sitting on a golden goose, the only real handicap I can see that might explain their slower rise compared to that of PSU (who didn’t have the desert, portal, Pac-12, etc) is that Powers doesn’t have Guy Gadowsky’s resume, but I keep being told that’s unimportant for reasons still unknown to me.

                                                        That, and they were playing in a rink smaller than Roseville Ice Arena for their first few years. Even with the weather, women, and wine, it’s still tough to recruit a NHL-track player when your facilities are clearly third rate. We will see what happens soon with their new rink.

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