Portal Forum General General Discussion Home Ownership

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  • #154043 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    midevil bowievil wrote:


    george wrote:


    I do agree that it’s unlikely you’ll (we’ll) get 17 years out of residential equipment in the future. Ten to 15 is more likely.

    I had to read that twice. Ten years? Weak engineering or just another scam?

    Our natural gas furnace is a HEIL installed in 1996. Our a/c is an old GE with a red General Electric emblem. How old is that? 30 years for sure.

    At our other house it’s all Williamson. Heat pump and oil burning furnace I believe was installed in about 1980. Works great.


    Our furnace was put in sometime in the 1960s and still going strong. They don’t make them like that anymore. And that’s probably a good thing.

    It isn’t a scam or conspiracy as much as intentionally managing life expectancy. They design the products and the process to manufacture the products concurrently – done together at the same time – so the designers do not over-engineer parts to last much longer than the warranty [which is like 10 years]. By doing that they keep the purchase price lower which matters to most home owners. It isn’t poorer quality because they also work like crazy to make sure the products have very few defects initially and last through warranty – its that the parts have more consistent and predictable reliability.

    In the old days they just engineered the $hit out of every thing but generally the manufacturing processes were not as good – more likely to have a part or two out of spec right off the line or fail quickly in the field… BUT if you made it past that initial period those machines never wore out.

    Its a different philosophy today. And frankly I think for the most part a better one. But there are trade offs.

    #154044 Quote
    Anonymous
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    g-manpuck wrote:


    I think there may be 4 different furnace manufacturers in North America and how many brands are there? For instance Carrier makes Payne, Armstrong, Bryant, Tempstar, and Heil. There is a huge difference in price between Carrier and Tempstar and the difference in reliability is probably negligible.

    That’s more common and applies to a lot more things than most people would think.

    A former employer of mine made the house brand dog shampoos for WalMart, Target, Petco, Petsmart and a few smaller boutique brands. The only difference between the products was the packaging. Prices ranged from $2.50/bottle to $19/bottle depending on the brand and retailer.

    #154045 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    SouthTexGopher wrote:


    g-manpuck wrote:


    I think there may be 4 different furnace manufacturers in North America and how many brands are there? For instance Carrier makes Payne, Armstrong, Bryant, Tempstar, and Heil. There is a huge difference in price between Carrier and Tempstar and the difference in reliability is probably negligible.

    That’s more common and applies to a lot more things than most people would think.

    A former employer of mine made the house brand dog shampoos for WalMart, Target, Petco, Petsmart and a few smaller boutique brands. The only difference between the products was the packaging. Prices ranged from $2.50/bottle to $19/bottle depending on the brand and retailer.


    You would be floored if you know who manufactured which appliances..

    #154046 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    dryfly wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    gopheritall wrote:

    I am close to needing a new AC also. Anyone have feedback on the various brands? Lennox, Trane, Carrier, Bryant, etc. I don’t think I would do a heat pump but rather prefer reliability and low maintenance. I wish I was good at maintaining but I’m not so I kind of need it to just run.

    Alos, thermostats. I have a programmable that we hate. It keeps going to the schedule. I want it to, for the most part, stay on hold. I want to use the programming part as the exception. My wife wants the old dial one back.

    All those companies I have quotes from (while, local installers of their products anyway), all VERY similar prices, within $300 of each other…

    All also said they offer 10 year parts warranty, 1 year labor – “Industry standard”. Unfortunately sometimes after 8 years or so if the compressor/condenser goes out, even though it is covered by parts, the labor cost may mean you are replacing before the parts warranty runs out. 2 companies told me that.

    I had a company who installs Daikin come over. Their price for a similar unit was $200 cheaper than the lowest price of the ones listed above, AND they offer a 12 year parts and 12 year labor warranty, essentially meaning this is your AC for 12 years. They also include a 6 year replacement guarantee, where if a major part fails in the first 6 years they don’t just replace the part, they replace the whole unit. I think they said the only requirement to keep the warranty, was every 24 months you needed to do an A/C tune-up/inspection.

    Very strongly leaning towards this installer and Daikin, unless someone has a good reason I wouldn’t want to go with them.


    I like Daikin people – have talked to some of their tech support in Texas. Seem like a really good group. Not saying the others aren’t okay – they are – but the Daikin folks are really bending over backward to help us. We want to buy AC units and have them customized for remote developing world solar installs so can’t use right off the shelf models. Daikin and Lennox have been the most helpful as we work through the kinks. Can’t say enough good about them.

    And you are right about the parts and labor – if the main compressor goes out the unit is pretty much shot. They are integral to the whole damn thing and very hard to rebuild in the field. So understand your warranty really well.

    The other thing is you should plan to have your unit cleaned and inspected EVERY year … unless you can do it without wrecking the fins on the heat exchanger. People think it’s easy and just spray or power wash. Not a good idea unless you know what you are doing. You can jam crap into the fins or flatten them and ruin the exchangers – make it so air can’t easily get through. Efficiency drops off and if bad enough will trigger shutdown.

    If you know what you are doing – great, go for it – otherwise get an annual service plan.

    Just a little update, and I know couple other people are looking at AC units at the same time.

    I have pricing on a 13.5 SEER unit and a 16 SEER unit. It is about a $350 price difference for Daikin. Carrier/Lennox had a much higher price increase to go from a 13.5/14 to a 16 SEER unit.

    a 2.5 ton (30,000 BTUs) 13.5 SEER unit runs about 2,222 watts per hour ran or 2.2 Kw/h.

    a 2.5 ton 16 SEER unit runs about 1,875 watts per hour ran, or 1.875 Kw/h.

    If we say the average AC runs for 600 hours in a year during a MN summer, that would mean 1,320 KW for the 13.5 SEER and 1,125 KW for the 16 SEER. At my current electric rate of 0.099 per KW, I would save 130Kw or $19.31 per year (on current pricing)…

    Now those numbers may not be entirely fair. I imagine the more efficient one will also run a little less, and energy costs are likely to increase. So I probably make up most of that $350 over the course of 10 years. Some of the previous installers where telling me how much money I would save with the higher SEER – maybe in Florida, or Arizona and/or with higher electric rates. I just do not think it makes sense to spend a boat load to jump a couple SEER. To get to a 19 SEER unit from 16, would be a nearly 50% increase in cost on the AC unit.

    The major caveat (for me); the 16 SEER unit is “Designed, Engineered, and Assembled in the USA” the 13.5 SEER unit is not… To me, that is worth the 8% up-charge itself not to mention the cost savings over time. I really like the peace of mind on the 12 year parts AND labor warranty on the Daikin.

    Just trying to convince wife, she seems to think we need to stick with Carrier since that is our furnace brand, and its a “good brand that everyone has”.

    #154047 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    dryfly wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    gopheritall wrote:

    I am close to needing a new AC also. Anyone have feedback on the various brands? Lennox, Trane, Carrier, Bryant, etc. I don’t think I would do a heat pump but rather prefer reliability and low maintenance. I wish I was good at maintaining but I’m not so I kind of need it to just run.

    Alos, thermostats. I have a programmable that we hate. It keeps going to the schedule. I want it to, for the most part, stay on hold. I want to use the programming part as the exception. My wife wants the old dial one back.

    All those companies I have quotes from (while, local installers of their products anyway), all VERY similar prices, within $300 of each other…

    All also said they offer 10 year parts warranty, 1 year labor – “Industry standard”. Unfortunately sometimes after 8 years or so if the compressor/condenser goes out, even though it is covered by parts, the labor cost may mean you are replacing before the parts warranty runs out. 2 companies told me that.

    I had a company who installs Daikin come over. Their price for a similar unit was $200 cheaper than the lowest price of the ones listed above, AND they offer a 12 year parts and 12 year labor warranty, essentially meaning this is your AC for 12 years. They also include a 6 year replacement guarantee, where if a major part fails in the first 6 years they don’t just replace the part, they replace the whole unit. I think they said the only requirement to keep the warranty, was every 24 months you needed to do an A/C tune-up/inspection.

    Very strongly leaning towards this installer and Daikin, unless someone has a good reason I wouldn’t want to go with them.


    I like Daikin people – have talked to some of their tech support in Texas. Seem like a really good group. Not saying the others aren’t okay – they are – but the Daikin folks are really bending over backward to help us. We want to buy AC units and have them customized for remote developing world solar installs so can’t use right off the shelf models. Daikin and Lennox have been the most helpful as we work through the kinks. Can’t say enough good about them.

    And you are right about the parts and labor – if the main compressor goes out the unit is pretty much shot. They are integral to the whole damn thing and very hard to rebuild in the field. So understand your warranty really well.

    The other thing is you should plan to have your unit cleaned and inspected EVERY year … unless you can do it without wrecking the fins on the heat exchanger. People think it’s easy and just spray or power wash. Not a good idea unless you know what you are doing. You can jam crap into the fins or flatten them and ruin the exchangers – make it so air can’t easily get through. Efficiency drops off and if bad enough will trigger shutdown.

    If you know what you are doing – great, go for it – otherwise get an annual service plan.

    Just a little update, and I know couple other people are looking at AC units at the same time.

    I have pricing on a 13.5 SEER unit and a 16 SEER unit. It is about a $350 price difference for Daikin. Carrier/Lennox had a much higher price increase to go from a 13.5/14 to a 16 SEER unit.

    a 2.5 ton (30,000 BTUs) 13.5 SEER unit runs about 2,222 watts per hour ran or 2.2 Kw/h.

    a 2.5 ton 16 SEER unit runs about 1,875 watts per hour ran, or 1.875 Kw/h.

    If we say the average AC runs for 600 hours in a year during a MN summer, that would mean 1,320 KW for the 13.5 SEER and 1,125 KW for the 16 SEER. At my current electric rate of 0.099 per KW, I would save 130Kw or $19.31 per year (on current pricing)…

    Now those numbers may not be entirely fair. I imagine the more efficient one will also run a little less, and energy costs are likely to increase. So I probably make up most of that $350 over the course of 10 years. Some of the previous installers where telling me how much money I would save with the higher SEER – maybe in Florida, or Arizona and/or with higher electric rates. I just do not think it makes sense to spend a boat load to jump a couple SEER. To get to a 19 SEER unit from 16, would be a nearly 50% increase in cost on the AC unit.

    The major caveat (for me); the 16 SEER unit is “Designed, Engineered, and Assembled in the USA” the 13.5 SEER unit is not… To me, that is worth the 8% up-charge itself not to mention the cost savings over time. I really like the peace of mind on the 12 year parts AND labor warranty on the Daikin.

    Just trying to convince wife, she seems to think we need to stick with Carrier since that is our furnace brand, and its a “good brand that everyone has”.


    If the tonnage is the same – both 2.5 ton – then they will produce the same cooling per unit time. The difference is the low SEER unit consumes more electricity per unit of cooling produced. Now maybe that’s because the compressor of the low SEER unit is runnng more per period of time OR it runs at lower efficiency. Runs as much but draws more current.

    We are looking at very high SEER units because my partner wants to run them on solar. The difference in the number of panels and batteries required by low SEER vs high SEER is very significant and those are not inexpensive. These are for off-grid applications in developing world. Grid applications like residential USA isn’t as crazy a trade off.

    #154048 Quote
    gopherguy06gopherguy06
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    Our sink is occasionally backing up. We have a disposal in one and not the other. I believe the pipe is not draining well. Any hacks or tricks before calling the plumber?

    When doing dishes, the sink backs up and even when I run the disposal, won’t drain. I know they are connected, but can’t for the life of me figure it out.

    #154049 Quote
    MaizeMaize
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    gopherguy06 wrote:


    Our sink is occasionally backing up. We have a disposal in one and not the other. I believe the pipe is not draining well. Any hacks or tricks before calling the plumber?

    When doing dishes, the sink backs up and even when I run the disposal, won’t drain. I know they are connected, but can’t for the life of me figure it out.

    On both sinks I’ve had to de-clog, there’s the pipe coming down from the drain, connected to a u-shaped pipe, that’s then connected to another pipe that leads out. Every time I’ve had an issue, it’s stuff(usually grease) getting stuck in that little u-shaped pipe. Put a plastic tub or something down to catch whatever is still in the pipes, then unscrew both sides and clean out that pipe. If that’s the issue, you’ll probably see what it is immediately.

    #154050 Quote
    BladepullerBladepuller
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    OR take a shop vac and suck the sink trap (Maize’s U shaped pipe is really called a P trap) dry and see if there is some residue of grease in the nozzle.

    Also is there another drain further “up hill” from the sink. I.E A laundry tub. If that drain also backs up then the problem is in the sanitary sewer line the two drains are on.

    We used to get a back up when we had a lot of family up at the cabin. Laundry tub at the end of the line would also back up. I would fill sinks & laundry tub with water, pop the drains and use a plunger on the laundry tub. It had the most direct path and the pressure and water volume would then clear the pipe. Root cause was a low spot and it would collect tater peelings, veg. scraps, salad trimmings, etc. from big feeds being produced. It is a nasty azz crawl space so after 2 July 4ths incidents I went in with a pipe hanger & battery drill and lifted up the sag.

    To much “fall’ in a sanitary pipe can be a problem. The H2O will run too fast and leave the “solids” behind. 1/8″ /ft is the rule and if a plumber needs to drop more than that they will run a clean out up and a straight drop down.

    #154051 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    Other thing you should do is follow the drain pipe down all the way – until it leaves the house. Understand the whole layout. What ties in where. See where all the other drains (toilets showers appliances) tie in to the main drain header. Sometimes pipes back up NOT because they are plugged themselves but build up from other sources plug the main line or a downstream feeder (maybe only partially) and if the drain you have backing up is upstream of that – it could be restricted enough to back up when flows are high.

    That happened to me – dishwasher backed up a lot. At first I thought it was insufficient venting on the drain line… replaced a burp valve – not fixed. Turned out the drain line in the floor was plugged going to the main drain header. I had a plumber tear up the floor and pull it. A three inch diameter drain pipe had less than one inch opening remaining – rest was deposits and corrosion. Cost less to fix than I expected too – only about $600. I thought tearing up my basement would be a lot worse but two guys did it in about 4 hours. My basement isn’t finished so no additional cost.

    Point is trace the lines – understand how the flows go – you will likely find your ‘pinch point’ after you do that.

    Good luck.

    #154052 Quote
    georgegeorge
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    Bladepuller wrote:


    OR take a shop vac and suck the sink trap (Maize’s U shaped pipe is really called a P trap) dry and see if there is some residue of grease in the nozzle.

    Also is there another drain further “up hill” from the sink. I.E A laundry tub. If that drain also backs up then the problem is in the sanitary sewer line the two drains are on.

    We used to get a back up when we had a lot of family up at the cabin. Laundry tub at the end of the line would also back up. I would fill sinks & laundry tub with water, pop the drains and use a plunger on the laundry tub. It had the most direct path and the pressure and water volume would then clear the pipe. Root cause was a low spot and it would collect tater peelings, veg. scraps, salad trimmings, etc. from big feeds being produced. It is a nasty azz crawl space so after 2 July 4ths incidents I went in with a pipe hanger & battery drill and lifted up the sag.

    To much “fall’ in a sanitary pipe can be a problem. The H2O will run too fast and leave the “solids” behind. 1/8″ /ft is the rule and if a plumber needs to drop more than that they will run a clean out up and a straight drop down.

    1/4″ a foot now old timer. New plumbing code upped it due to the increase in low-flow fixtures. :wink:

    #154053 Quote
    gopherguy06gopherguy06
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    Thanks for the advice. I’ll have to give it a shot.

    Anyone have a recommendation for someone who could do some small repairs including patching some holes in a wall from nails and what not, re grouting the tile in a tub?

    Normally, I would do it myself but don’t have time this week and a new tenant moving in.

    #154054 Quote
    rowshkexrowshkex
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    #154055 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Get a Honda.

    #154056 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Buying the tools is fun. Buying the furniture…..kill me.

    #154057 Quote
    WPoSWPoS
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Buying the tools is fun. Buying the furniture…..kill me.

    I build it! :biggrin2:

    W

    #154058 Quote
    rowshkexrowshkex
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    Buying furniture for our new house is making my head spin… so many options and so much stuff in those stores…

    #154059 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    rowshkex wrote:


    Buying furniture for our new house is making my head spin… so many options and so much stuff in those stores…

    Good luck with that. There is never enough money to get everything you want/need. These can be tough decisions when the couch/table you want isn’t available at the price you can pay.

    #154060 Quote
    gopherguy06gopherguy06
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    Our AC went out again. Previously they found a leak and fixed it but then added more coolant. Guessing it leaked again but no idea.

    #154061 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    gopherguy06 wrote:


    Our AC went out again. Previously they found a leak and fixed it but then added more coolant. Guessing it leaked again but no idea.

    Well the forecast is looking to be in your favor this week. Good luck on the repairs.

    #154063 Quote
    KarlssonKarlsson
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    Karlsson wrote:


    Cowgirl wrote:


    Karlsson wrote:

    Just wondering how long I go before mentioning it. I get it has been less than a week, they very well may have something in the works. It is one of those situations where I don’t want to be annoyed, but I am.

    Then I would say something, nicely. Such as, “You probably know, but just in case you don’t, your fence is damaged and I’ve fixed it a couple of times because I’m worried your cute little dogs could escape.”

    If you’re really feeling generous (or you actually like them), you could add something like, “If you need some recommendations on a fence company or a little help when you go to replace it, let me know.” Hint hint hint.

    If they respond in a douchebag manner then I wouldn’t touch that fence again. Or just put up your own….

    I do like them, they snowblow the section of sidewalk in front of our house when they notice it hasn’t been cleared. In MPLS this is huge. They also fixed the fence after the July storm last year, but just a portion of it obviously.

    They are good people. I’m just tired of having to “band-aid” the thing every time a stiff breeze rolls through.

    I’ll probably take your advice and be very cool about it. Pick your battles and all that jazz.

    Sooooooooo yeah they haven’t fixed the fence. I mentioned it to them twice. The first time just like laid out above. The second time not quite as nice, but still not a jerk about it. Both times, “Yeah we’re looking at our options, we want to get it done it’s an eyesore.” It’s been over a month since the second time. With all the autumn wind boards have been falling into our yard left and right.

    I no longer care about their dogs. Let them run away. They’re the annoying tiny yap-yap kind anyway. I’m worried about my dogs stepping on rusty nails sticking out the back side of these boards lying in our yard. So I just got done hammering them back up very loudly at 11:00PM.

    This time I also put a 2 inch screw in the top and bottom of each plank so I won’t have to do it so often.

    #154064 Quote
    georgegeorge
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    Karlsson wrote:


    Karlsson wrote:


    Cowgirl wrote:


    Karlsson wrote:

    Just wondering how long I go before mentioning it. I get it has been less than a week, they very well may have something in the works. It is one of those situations where I don’t want to be annoyed, but I am.

    Then I would say something, nicely. Such as, “You probably know, but just in case you don’t, your fence is damaged and I’ve fixed it a couple of times because I’m worried your cute little dogs could escape.”

    If you’re really feeling generous (or you actually like them), you could add something like, “If you need some recommendations on a fence company or a little help when you go to replace it, let me know.” Hint hint hint.

    If they respond in a douchebag manner then I wouldn’t touch that fence again. Or just put up your own….

    I do like them, they snowblow the section of sidewalk in front of our house when they notice it hasn’t been cleared. In MPLS this is huge. They also fixed the fence after the July storm last year, but just a portion of it obviously.

    They are good people. I’m just tired of having to “band-aid” the thing every time a stiff breeze rolls through.

    I’ll probably take your advice and be very cool about it. Pick your battles and all that jazz.

    Sooooooooo yeah they haven’t fixed the fence. I mentioned it to them twice. The first time just like laid out above. The second time not quite as nice, but still not a jerk about it. Both times, “Yeah we’re looking at our options, we want to get it done it’s an eyesore.” It’s been over a month since the second time. With all the autumn wind boards have been falling into our yard left and right.

    I no longer care about their dogs. Let them run away. They’re the annoying tiny yap-yap kind anyway. I’m worried about my dogs stepping on rusty nails sticking out the back side of these boards lying in our yard. So I just got done hammering them back up very loudly at 11:00PM.

    This time I also put a 2 inch screw in the top and bottom of each plank so I won’t have to do it so often.


    Huh, I woulda launched any boards that fell into my yard deep into their yard. I think they’d get the message then. If you put the boards back up, they have no incentive to fix it, you’re an enabler.😉

    #154065 Quote
    gopherguy06gopherguy06
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    My wife tried to turn on the gas fireplace and it doesn’t turn on. I can see the pilot is on and lit, but any thoughts on why it wouldn’t light?

    #154066 Quote
    ThompsThomps
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    gopherguy06 wrote:


    My wife tried to turn on the gas fireplace and it doesn’t turn on. I can see the pilot is on and lit, but any thoughts on why it wouldn’t light?

    Did you mess with the valve at all? If the pilot is on, you are getting gas and are already lit, you just need to give it more gas. Do you turn your fireplace on via wall switch, or remote?

    #154067 Quote
    D2DD2D
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    Thomps wrote:


    gopherguy06 wrote:


    My wife tried to turn on the gas fireplace and it doesn’t turn on. I can see the pilot is on and lit, but any thoughts on why it wouldn’t light?

    Did you mess with the valve at all? If the pilot is on, you are getting gas and are already lit, you just need to give it more gas. Do you turn your fireplace on via wall switch, or remote?


    Good suggestion. After taking off and cleaning the glass front last week I went to turn the fireplace on and……I couldn’t remember how (it’s been a few years since we last used it). Ooops, I forgot there’s an on/off switch down by the various dials and it was just a matter of pushing it, like turning on a light. :oops:

    #154068 Quote
    gopherguy06gopherguy06
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    We have a light switch for it, but I will try to pull the panel to see if there is a knob near the fireplace.

    #154069 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    gopherguy06 wrote:


    We have a light switch for it, but I will try to pull the panel to see if there is a knob near the fireplace.

    Ours is the same. A lightswitch to turn it on and off. However, there are several on/offs down in the access panel. I pulled a D2D also. Even though the pilot light was lit, there was an on/off toggle that allowed the light switch to turn it on and off. That toggle was set to off, so the light switch did nothing. I turned the toggle to ON, then the light switch worked as it should.

    #154070 Quote
    JupiterJupiter
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    gopherguy06 wrote:


    We have a light switch for it, but I will try to pull the panel to see if there is a knob near the fireplace.

    Ours is the same. A lightswitch to turn it on and off. However, there are several on/offs down in the access panel. I pulled a D2D also. Even though the pilot light was lit, there was an on/off toggle that allowed the light switch to turn it on and off. That toggle was set to off, so the light switch did nothing. I turned the toggle to ON, then the light switch worked as it should.


    Probably a bad Thermopile (I think that is what it is called) Had this happen to be at my old house.

    #154071 Quote
    BladepullerBladepuller
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    Thermopile is the little bi-metal sensor that is in the pilot flame that has a thin “tube” running back to the gas valve. If there is a lit pilot, and it is functioning proper, it expands and allows the gas valve to open when the thermostat or other main gas valve control (switch) is calling for “heat”. Older technology and is used where there is a standing pilot to insure the main gas valve is NOT opened with out there being a source of ignition. For me it has been cheap and easy to replace when I have had an ignition issue with the old H2O heater at M.L.

    #154072 Quote
    KarlssonKarlsson
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    george wrote:


    Karlsson wrote:


    Karlsson wrote:


    Cowgirl wrote:


    Karlsson wrote:

    Just wondering how long I go before mentioning it. I get it has been less than a week, they very well may have something in the works. It is one of those situations where I don’t want to be annoyed, but I am.

    Then I would say something, nicely. Such as, “You probably know, but just in case you don’t, your fence is damaged and I’ve fixed it a couple of times because I’m worried your cute little dogs could escape.”

    If you’re really feeling generous (or you actually like them), you could add something like, “If you need some recommendations on a fence company or a little help when you go to replace it, let me know.” Hint hint hint.

    If they respond in a douchebag manner then I wouldn’t touch that fence again. Or just put up your own….

    I do like them, they snowblow the section of sidewalk in front of our house when they notice it hasn’t been cleared. In MPLS this is huge. They also fixed the fence after the July storm last year, but just a portion of it obviously.

    They are good people. I’m just tired of having to “band-aid” the thing every time a stiff breeze rolls through.

    I’ll probably take your advice and be very cool about it. Pick your battles and all that jazz.

    Sooooooooo yeah they haven’t fixed the fence. I mentioned it to them twice. The first time just like laid out above. The second time not quite as nice, but still not a jerk about it. Both times, “Yeah we’re looking at our options, we want to get it done it’s an eyesore.” It’s been over a month since the second time. With all the autumn wind boards have been falling into our yard left and right.

    I no longer care about their dogs. Let them run away. They’re the annoying tiny yap-yap kind anyway. I’m worried about my dogs stepping on rusty nails sticking out the back side of these boards lying in our yard. So I just got done hammering them back up very loudly at 11:00PM.

    This time I also put a 2 inch screw in the top and bottom of each plank so I won’t have to do it so often.


    Huh, I woulda launched any boards that fell into my yard deep into their yard. I think they’d get the message then. If you put the boards back up, they have no incentive to fix it, you’re an enabler.😉

    Rats. Oh well, at least it’ll keep our dogs in our yard.

    Jupiter wrote:

    Probably a bad Thermopile (I think that is what it is called)

    Isn’t that where the Spartans had their last stand?

    :wink:

    #154075 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    I need help.

    I am out of town traveling for work. We are having our siding replaced. My wife has come home to tripped circuit breakers or tripped GFCI every day this week. Today she came home to 6 tripped breakers. What is happening?

    We’ve never had a tripped breaker in the 2 years we’ve lived there.

    I don’t get it.

    #154076 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Can the banging on the house cause a breaker to trip? I know they have plugged saws into out outside outlets. I get they may trip a breaker. But 6? How?

    #154077 Quote
    D2DD2D
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    I need help.

    I am out of town traveling for work. We are having our siding replaced. My wife has come home to tripped circuit breakers or tripped GFCI every day this week. Today she came home to 6 tripped breakers. What is happening?

    We’ve never had a tripped breaker in the 2 years we’ve lived there.

    I don’t get it.


    I would call the contractor and ask them what the hell is going on. That’s totally inexcusable! Tell them you will withhold payment and bring in a different contractor if the situation is not corrected immediately.

    #154078 Quote
    J22J22
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Can the banging on the house cause a breaker to trip? I know they have plugged saws into out outside outlets. I get they may trip a breaker. But 6? How?

    Is your yard really muddy/wet? Is it the same breakers everyday? Are all the tripped breakers connected to outlets that the siders are using? A cord running through a puddle will trip a breaker real quick. If the siders don’t have access to the box, they might be going around your house using whatever outlet still works?

    If the siders are using an electric air compressor, those will trip breakers pretty quickly as well

    #154079 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    All of the external breakers are on the same circuit.

    But they even tripped the circuit for the dryer (220V) and our dishwasher.

    I don’t get it.

    They said they’re going to have their electrician come over. I may have one look at it myself once o get back.

    They should be using a generator tomorrow. I’ll be curious if the circuits continue to trip.

    #154080 Quote
    BladepullerBladepuller
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    Banging on the wall the breaker box is on could cause a breaker to trip.

    If they are not working on that wall and breakers trip I am puzzled.

    #154081 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    Bladepuller wrote:


    Banging on the wall the breaker box is on could cause a breaker to trip.

    If they are not working on that wall and breakers trip I am puzzled.


    Same here. You have to really bang them to trip mechanically. I mean try to trip them yourself – flip one – those springs are damn stiff until heated up by overcurrent. Once hot they go easy but not cold.

    Bertogliat definitely has a good reason to ask the contractor.

    #154082 Quote
    BladepullerBladepuller
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    Agree and once they have tripped a couple of times from overload it seems it takes less of an overload for them to go next time.

    #154083 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    How old is your panel? Breakers wear out. I have replaced a couple in my house since moving in. We have a circuit where the hair dryer and toaster on the same one and it trips daily. Finally had to replace it.

    That being said, it happening all of a sudden with no prior trips is odd. Banging on a wall won’t trip breakers, no matter the age.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being a miscommunication, especially if you have never had the problem before.

    #154084 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    There is no miscommunication. My wife had to reset 6 breakers last night. They did replace the siding on the side of the house with the electrical panel yesterday.

    Today they work on the front and shouldnt be plugging anything in so I will be eager to find out if any breakers trip.

    #154085 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    Are these by change arc fault breakers? A noisy motor on a saw could trip an entire panel of breakers. Not through a short but through the noise looking like an arc.

    #154086 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    Orion wrote:


    Are these by change arc fault breakers? A noisy motor on a saw could trip an entire panel of breakers. Not through a short but through the noise looking like an arc.


    By noise you mean electrical noise – choppy current or voltage wave form as a result of worm brushes or windings – not actual sound vibration right? That sounds obvious but electrical stuff is a bit like magic to me.

    And as a homeowner how would I know if that was happening? How could an electrician tell? Would he need an oscilloscope? Or easier way.

    #154087 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Orion wrote:


    Are these by change arc fault breakers? A noisy motor on a saw could trip an entire panel of breakers. Not through a short but through the noise looking like an arc.

    I have no idea. The hey are circuit breakers in the electrical panel. I don’t get into electricity much beyond that.

    #154088 Quote
    Steve MNSteve MN
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Orion wrote:


    Are these by change arc fault breakers? A noisy motor on a saw could trip an entire panel of breakers. Not through a short but through the noise looking like an arc.

    I have no idea. The hey are circuit breakers in the electrical panel. I don’t get into electricity much beyond that.

    If they’re running off a generator today, that should tell you. The electrical noise being referred to here would essentially require a physical connection to the breaker box to trip anything.

    The next question is, are any of the breakers popping when the construction team isn’t there? If not, it would make sense that the problem is something with their equipment. If, after the team is gone, breakers continue to pop, definitely get an electrician in there to check it out, because that would tend to indicate that something got screwed up in the wiring (nail through a wire, something crazy like that). I’m certainly not qualified to figure that one out, but that’s what electricians are for ;)

    #154074 Quote
    gopherguy06gopherguy06
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    Anyone have a recommendation in Minneapolis for a HVAC person? We need to get our air ducts/vents cleaned out, including the dryer vent.

    #154073 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Aspen Air. They are great to work with. You can probably find a Groupon if that’s still a thing.

    #154062 Quote
    JWGJWG
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    Anyone have a recommended gutter person for the St. Paul area (Inver Grove Heights)? New home, no gutters, needs them. We’ve gotten about 8 flyers on our front door, but recommendations are better than solicitations.

    #153902 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Orion wrote:


    Are these by change arc fault breakers? A noisy motor on a saw could trip an entire panel of breakers. Not through a short but through the noise looking like an arc.

    I have no idea. The hey are circuit breakers in the electrical panel. I don’t get into electricity much beyond that.

    I need closure. How did this end up?

    #154089 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Orion wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    Orion wrote:


    Are these by change arc fault breakers? A noisy motor on a saw could trip an entire panel of breakers. Not through a short but through the noise looking like an arc.

    I have no idea. The hey are circuit breakers in the electrical panel. I don’t get into electricity much beyond that.

    I need closure. How did this end up?

    Ongoing. We still have one circuit breaker (arc fault) that won’t reset. Actually it appears to reset, but I have no power to the rooms. The other breakers did reset and none tripped after they started finished pounding on the wall with the electrical panel.

    My contractor is sending their electrician to look it over and said they’d fix anything due to their work. I am somehow still waiting for that electrician. I expect him to show tomorrow.

    I did buy a new breaker, just in case, so he can replace the breaker while here. I did take the panel cover off and saw one wire from the breaker that was slightly browned near a metal post. So I don’t know if the pounding caused the post to touch a wire causing an arc…? Or if the breaker just gave up. Or if I have a nail through a wire.

    Tomorrow should provide some clarity.

    #154090 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    JWG wrote:


    Anyone have a recommended gutter person for the St. Paul area (Inver Grove Heights)? New home, no gutters, needs them. We’ve gotten about 8 flyers on our front door, but recommendations are better than solicitations.

    Buying gutters is like buying a mattress. Everyone has a different product so they are difficult to compare.

    We used Sela and were happy with the product. Thicker metal and larger 3×5 dimensions. They also seal the seems well and give a warranty on no leaks. They threw in hinged downspouts for free.

    Price was comparable with a better product the their competitors.

    They are SUPER busy fixing storm damage now so they aren’t starving for business.

    #154091 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Orion wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    Orion wrote:


    Are these by change arc fault breakers? A noisy motor on a saw could trip an entire panel of breakers. Not through a short but through the noise looking like an arc.

    I have no idea. The hey are circuit breakers in the electrical panel. I don’t get into electricity much beyond that.

    I need closure. How did this end up?

    Ongoing. We still have one circuit breaker (arc fault) that won’t reset. Actually it appears to reset, but I have no power to the rooms. The other breakers did reset and none tripped after they started finished pounding on the wall with the electrical panel.

    My contractor is sending their electrician to look it over and said they’d fix anything due to their work. I am somehow still waiting for that electrician. I expect him to show tomorrow.

    I did buy a new breaker, just in case, so he can replace the breaker while here. I did take the panel cover off and saw one wire from the breaker that was slightly browned near a metal post. So I don’t know if the pounding caused the post to touch a wire causing an arc…? Or if the breaker just gave up. Or if I have a nail through a wire.

    Tomorrow should provide some clarity.

    Update. The first breaker was tripped with a nail through a wire. That is being fixed now.

    I don’t know about the others. Some were arc fault and other were not. But the master electrician said depending on how a house is wired, big loads from tools can cause multiple breakers to trip.

    #154092 Quote
    davescharfdavescharf
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    Any lawn people here? The ice and snow in my yard from the winter left me with a bunch of what looks like dead grass in a large part of my back yard. Is there anything I can do besides try to dethatch and reseed?

    I’ve never had this happen before so I’m really surprised. I’m not even sure if the grass is dead or dormant so I’m tryIng to figure out the best approach, otherwise I’ll kist call my lawn service and ask them

    #154093 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    davescharf wrote:


    Any lawn people here? The ice and snow in my yard from the winter left me with a bunch of what looks like dead grass in a large part of my back yard. Is there anything I can do besides try to dethatch and reseed?

    I’ve never had this happen before so I’m really surprised. I’m not even sure if the grass is dead or dormant so I’m tryIng to figure out the best approach, otherwise I’ll kist call my lawn service and ask them


    It’s probably winter kill. With the long winter and not a ton of snow until the very end, it’s most likely dead. Dethatch it and overseed it. It may come back on its own, but it will be very thin.

    I typically get the same around the edges of my driveway from clearing the snow off a foot into my grass in some places.

    #154094 Quote
    IceburgIceburg
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    Need new steps in front on the house. Anyone have good experience with concrete outfits in the northeast metro?

    #154095 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    Iceburg wrote:


    Need new steps in front on the house. Anyone have good experience with concrete outfits in the northeast metro?

    Not sure if they go up that way but my buddy works for Creative Concepts and I know they’ve done a while bunch of driveway/patio stuff. They may be worth looking into. They do great work.

    http://www.creativeconceptsconcrete.com

    #154096 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Before you open the valve to charge your exterior water pipes, make sure to plug your sprinkler system drain pipe.

    This weekend I informed two completely unaware neighbors that they were flooding their backyards.

    #154097 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    How do you guys deal with door-to-door sales people?

    The last 2-3 weeks it feels like every other night someone has come to our door in the evening trying to sell a service or raise money for some god-forsaken cause.

    We removed our doorbell battery. They knock, which causes my dog to go crazy and wake up our 1 year old. They are coming between 6:00 and 8:30 My daughter goes to bed at 7:00. We put out a sign that says no solicitors, and they cannot read. Several don’t take no for an answer and I have to shut the door in their face. Several are pushy and want to come IN my house for their sales pitch – how about NO!

    Aptive is the worst. I flat out ignore them, they just come back later the same night or the next night. I tell them not to come back, and they send a different guy the next week.

    It is getting out of control, last night we had 2 different companies show up within 30 minutes of each other.

    Any suggestions?

    #154098 Quote
    Thirty-FourThirty-Four
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    Rub stage blood all over your hands and face prior, then answer saying, ” No wire hangers!!!!!!!”

    Seriously though, I feel for you, that is 1950’s levels of Door to Dooring. I’m glad I don’t live wherever you live.

    #154099 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    Most cities require solicitors to get a permit to go door to door. Ask them to show you the permit. If they don’t call the cops. If they do then call city Hall and complain.

    #154100 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    Orion wrote:


    Most cities require solicitors to get a permit to go door to door. Ask them to show you the permit. If they don’t call the cops. If they do then call city Hall and complain.

    I think many have been asked, because lots of them are wearing city “Authorized Solicitor” badges. Not sure on the exact wording, but something to that effect. I will call city hall and complain, it is getting ridiculous. We have always had a few, and we don’t mind the school-age kids with their school fundraisers, but this year has gotten out of hand.

    #154101 Quote
    Thirty-FourThirty-Four
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    Orion wrote:


    Most cities require solicitors to get a permit to go door to door. Ask them to show you the permit. If they don’t call the cops. If they do then call city Hall and complain.

    I think many have been asked, because lots of them are wearing city “Authorized Solicitor” badges. Not sure on the exact wording, but something to that effect. I will call city hall and complain, it is getting ridiculous. We have always had a few, and we don’t mind the school-age kids with their school fundraisers, but this year has gotten out of hand.

    This makes you wonder if someone on the council owns the businesses or are in some way involved. They have to be getting flack for this.

    #154102 Quote
    georgegeorge
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    How about a sprinkler system with a head aimed at the front step and a remote to start it?

    I think Edina is way tighter about issuing the permits then most cities. We rarely get any, certainly not the number you see.

    #154103 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    We have a no soliciting sign but I found some religious paperwork shoved in my door this morning. In the past I have simply pointed to the sign and walked away without even opening the door.

    If I were you I would start jotting down their name/company/badge number etc., and let them know if they or anyone from their company return, the police will be called because it is trespassing to come onto someone’s property without permission, especially if they have been warned once.

    #154104 Quote
    davescharfdavescharf
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    Orion wrote:


    Most cities require solicitors to get a permit to go door to door. Ask them to show you the permit. If they don’t call the cops. If they do then call city Hall and complain.

    I think many have been asked, because lots of them are wearing city “Authorized Solicitor” badges. Not sure on the exact wording, but something to that effect. I will call city hall and complain, it is getting ridiculous. We have always had a few, and we don’t mind the school-age kids with their school fundraisers, but this year has gotten out of hand.

    In Plymouth they are required to wear them. We put our no soliciting sign right above the doorbell and have no problems. Prior to the sign it was terrible.

    Some of the tree and siding guys will catch us in the driveway but for me they usually go away if I mention the sign. Totally different story when they catch my wife though

    #154105 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    davescharf wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    Orion wrote:


    Most cities require solicitors to get a permit to go door to door. Ask them to show you the permit. If they don’t call the cops. If they do then call city Hall and complain.

    I think many have been asked, because lots of them are wearing city “Authorized Solicitor” badges. Not sure on the exact wording, but something to that effect. I will call city hall and complain, it is getting ridiculous. We have always had a few, and we don’t mind the school-age kids with their school fundraisers, but this year has gotten out of hand.

    In Plymouth they are required to wear them. We put our no soliciting sign right above the doorbell and have no problems. Prior to the sign it was terrible.

    Some of the tree and siding guys will catch us in the driveway but for me they usually go away if I mention the sign. Totally different story when they catch my wife though

    I have no issue if someone wants to leave me a quote to do work. We get that from seal-coating companies and we do that every 2-3 years. Sure leave your price and schedule and I will give you a call if I am interested.

    My wife has gotten angry, rightfully so, as several just immediately dismiss her and ask if “her husband” is home. I told her to say “yeah, but if I go bother him again he’ll probably go back to beating me…” But she is worried they would call the cops haha**

    I looked on our cities website and found some interesting tidbits. Hours they can do this are 9:00am – 8:00pm. I am not sure thrilled with 8:00pm, but we have also had our door knocked on at 8:30 twice in the last 10 days. It says to call the police if that happens.

    It also says if our sign meets the requirements we can call the police if they bother us. And the city offers free window clings at city hall that meet the requirements. Guess what I am going to pick up tomorrow!

    **Domestic violence is not funny. However my wife got sick of everyone asking her about being a “hockey widow”, “you just let your husband be gone for hockey all winter?” and she, on her own, came up with “well, it could be worse, he could come home drunk every night and beat me” and people stop asking her about it now. So in some cases, its kinda funny… :oops: I had no idea what to say after she told me that she said that to a few people including her sister.

    Cowgirl wrote:


    We have a no soliciting sign but I found some religious paperwork shoved in my door this morning. In the past I have simply pointed to the sign and walked away without even opening the door.

    If I were you I would start jotting down their name/company/badge number etc., and let them know if they or anyone from their company return, the police will be called because it is trespassing to come onto someone’s property without permission, especially if they have been warned once.

    In our city, according to the website, Religious, non-profits, and charities are exempt from needing a permit. However it is not clear if that is the only part they are exempt from, or if the other rules (ie obeying the sign) are required of them as well.

    #154106 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    Out of curiosity, what are the requirements for a no soliciting sign? I simply printed the words “no soliciting” and taped it inside the door window.

    Would a no trespassing sign at the end of the driveway offer any more security (ie can that be more ammo to keep them out)?

    Hmmm, maybe more ammo is the answer.

    I KID!

    #154107 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    When we lived in Coon Rapids the door to door sales were off the charts. Older neighbors, maybe easier to con.

    We put up a no soliciting sign and it reduced the knocks by 95%. Those that knocked were referred to the sign as I shut the door. Some even apologized.

    #154108 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    Do you guys think there are more of these kind of solicitations than in recent years? Asking because I wonder if the increase in door to door is a direct result of people not answering their phones. Not saying it’s right just wondering.

    I am old enough to remember when door to door salesmen were really common. When I was kid. Back then phone solicitation was expensive for the seller. They either had huge phone bills due to long distance charges (that was a thing once) or had to have many call offices locally placed so as to utilize unlimited local calling and then each would need to be staffed … also very expensive.

    Then phone service was deregulated and companies offered much more affordable corporate plans … and with technology like robocalling cost per call went to almost zero. Why send people out door to door when you can call peeps for almost free?

    Of course no one now answers the phone unless it is a call they want from someone they know. So those free sales calls are almost worthless to the seller too … maybe the pendulum swings back to more door to door?

    Not justifying – just wondering. FWIW I have also seen a pick up in door to door but wondered if it was just us – our neighborhood. Looks like maybe not.

    #154109 Quote
    streakygopherstreakygopher
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    Just pull your curtain back with a loaded hand gun. It works better than a sign. :)

    #154110 Quote
    MNNavyMNNavy
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    dryfly wrote:


    Do you guys think there are more of these kind of solicitations than in recent years? Asking because I wonder if the increase in door to door is a direct result of people not answering their phones. Not saying it’s right just wondering.

    That could certainly be part of it. However, I’m guessing another part is that land lines are significantly less common than they were even ten years ago. With a land line, telemarketers could target a city or neighborhood using an area code and prefix. You can’t do that with cell phones.

    #154111 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    MNNavy wrote:


    dryfly wrote:


    Do you guys think there are more of these kind of solicitations than in recent years? Asking because I wonder if the increase in door to door is a direct result of people not answering their phones. Not saying it’s right just wondering.


    That could certainly be part of it. However, I’m guessing another part is that land lines are significantly less common than they were even ten years ago. With a land line, telemarketers could target a city or neighborhood using an area code and prefix. You can’t do that with cell phones.


    Good point – really perceptive.

    #154112 Quote
    Jane FondaJane Fonda
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    We don’t get many people knocking on our door like that. And almost always they’re the brainwashed homeschooled jesus cult kids, that have no hope of succeeding in life, that live around the corner trying sell something for their fucked up cult church. So we just ignore them, and don’t answer the door.

    #154113 Quote
    Thirty-FourThirty-Four
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    Jane Fonda wrote:


    We don’t get many people knocking on our door like that. And almost always they’re the brainwashed homeschooled jesus cult kids, that have no hope of succeeding in life, that live around the corner trying sell something for their f*** up cult church. So we just ignore them, and don’t answer the door.

    [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cDhSqERKjo[/media]

    #154114 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    streakygopher wrote:


    Just pull your curtain back with a loaded hand gun. It works better than a sign. :)


    When we were young we had a largish Siberian husky with the bluest devil eyes you could imagine. Friendly dog mostly but he didn’t like people knocking on ‘his’ door. Didn’t bark just stared at people he didn’t like with a hint of snarl. We would open the door to see who was there and they would look at the dog and say something like … “uh ya we’ll come back later.” Never see them again. I miss that guy – great dog.

    #154115 Quote
    Kelly RedKelly Red
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    I made a printed sign that said

    NO Solicitations

    NO Religion

    NO Politics

    NO means No

    I did it in red like the signs you can buy and put it on the outer door to our porch. We’ve had no one ignore the sign, even last year during the election. It’s worked! My neaghbor wanted to buy one, he thought the No means No was a nice hilarious touch.

    #154116 Quote
    MNNavyMNNavy
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    Kelly Red wrote:


    I made a printed sign that said

    NO Solicitations

    NO Religion

    NO Politics

    NO means No

    I did it in red like the signs you can buy and put it on the outer door to our porch. We’ve had no one ignore the sign, even last year during the election. It’s worked! My neaghbor wanted to buy one, he thought the No means No was a nice hilarious touch.

    Another potential solution to deter unwanted salespeople…

    https://www.signxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/I-Shoot-Every-Third-Salesman-Second-Just-Left.png" />

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