Portal Forum General General Discussion Home Ownership

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  • #153968 Quote
    BladepullerBladepuller
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    A licensed surveyor will have place a plastic plug (Now this is the procedure. Back in the old days of chains & transits as equip. , I don’t know what was done.) in the pipe. The plug will have the info on who (surveyor & lic. #) placed the monument.

    In events of differing surveys generally either the county or LGU will have a “viewing”, & render the decision. Often times it is a splitting of the difference.

    Differences arise because Congress correctly enacted a bill where the original monuments placed by the govt. surveyors when the range and section system (gridded townships) was being mapped. The thing is the section & range corners can be far off from correct orientation and if one surveys in from the NE township corner and another surveyor from SW corner there can be a difference. In reality there generally are monuments that have been accepted as correct closer than the 8.4852 miles that a diagonal is from corn er to corner on a 6mi. x 6mi. township.

    Mark, Isn’t the parcel to the west from you for sale? If so and it get plotted & the PLOT ACCEPTED BY O.G. then the plots survey will be then and forever more binding. Also isn’t the neighbor in question part of the old time family that owned the “site” across the county road? We should talk.

    Wait until you have property line issues with a neighbor who had been in a business relationship with you, it is at a lake & your common great grand father is the 1st name on the abstract.

    #153969 Quote
    WPoSWPoS
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    Bladepuller wrote:


    A licensed surveyor will have place a plastic plug (Now this is the procedure. Back in the old days of chains & transits as equip. , I don’t know what was done.) in the pipe. The plug will have the info on who (surveyor & lic. #) placed the monument.

    In events of differing surveys generally either the county or LGU will have a “viewing”, & render the decision. Often times it is a splitting of the difference.

    Differences arise because Congress correctly enacted a bill where the original monuments placed by the govt. surveyors when the range and section system (gridded townships) was being mapped. The thing is the section & range corners can be far off from correct orientation and if one surveys in from the NE township corner and another surveyor from SW corner there can be a difference. In reality there generally are monuments that have been accepted as correct closer than the 8.4852 miles that a diagonal is from corn er to corner on a 6mi. x 6mi. township.

    Mark, Isn’t the parcel to the west from you for sale? If so and it get plotted & the PLOT ACCEPTED BY O.G. then the plots survey will be then and forever more binding. Also isn’t the neighbor in question part of the old time family that owned the “site” across the county road? We should talk.

    Wait until you have property line issues with a neighbor who had been in a business relationship with you, it is at a lake & your common great grand father is the 1st name on the abstract.

    As far as I know the guy I’m having issues with isn’t the one you are thinking of. This guy bought and built a while ago. You are thinking the guy to my WEST, not the west-most SOUTH side property. Stop on by sometime. Like I said, all said and done I’ll prolly get a survey done sometime if I can find a good price and we have the money around to do so.

    W

    #153970 Quote
    rowshkexrowshkex
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    Not only did we get the house we put an offer in on, but the inspection was today and showed basically nothing significant wrong with the house… It was “one of the nicest and most well-maintained houses” the guy has seen. :dup:

    Can’t get much better than that!

    #153971 Quote
    davescharfdavescharf
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    Need the like button for a bit

    #153972 Quote
    gopherguy06gopherguy06
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    rowshkex wrote:


    Not only did we get the house we put an offer in on, but the inspection was today and showed basically nothing significant wrong with the house… It was “one of the nicest and most well-maintained houses” the guy has seen. :dup:

    Can’t get much better than that!

    Congrats! I know its been a process but you will be happy when you are moved in.

    Where did you buy again?

    #153973 Quote
    Steve MNSteve MN
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    rowshkex wrote:


    Not only did we get the house we put an offer in on, but the inspection was today and showed basically nothing significant wrong with the house… It was “one of the nicest and most well-maintained houses” the guy has seen. :dup:

    Can’t get much better than that!

    Very nice indeed :dup:

    #153974 Quote
    skiier32skiier32
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    rowshkex wrote:


    Not only did we get the house we put an offer in on, but the inspection was today and showed basically nothing significant wrong with the house… It was “one of the nicest and most well-maintained houses” the guy has seen. :dup:

    Can’t get much better than that!


    Congrats on the new home!

    #153975 Quote
    rowshkexrowshkex
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    gopherguy06 wrote:


    rowshkex wrote:


    Not only did we get the house we put an offer in on, but the inspection was today and showed basically nothing significant wrong with the house… It was “one of the nicest and most well-maintained houses” the guy has seen. :dup:

    Can’t get much better than that!

    Congrats! I know its been a process but you will be happy when you are moved in.

    Where did you buy again?

    Southeast Blaine, off County J.

    It’s not a perfect location by any means, but it’s a great house in a good neighborhood.

    #153976 Quote
    Kelly RedKelly Red
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    rowshkex wrote:


    Not only did we get the house we put an offer in on, but the inspection was today and showed basically nothing significant wrong with the house… It was “one of the nicest and most well-maintained houses” the guy has seen. :dup:

    Can’t get much better than that!

    Yes, a big congratulations to you and your family.

    #153977 Quote
    melmacmelmac
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    At least it’s not GD Oakdale….

    #153978 Quote
    WPoSWPoS
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    rowshkex wrote:


    gopherguy06 wrote:


    rowshkex wrote:


    Not only did we get the house we put an offer in on, but the inspection was today and showed basically nothing significant wrong with the house… It was “one of the nicest and most well-maintained houses” the guy has seen. :dup:

    Can’t get much better than that!

    Congrats! I know its been a process but you will be happy when you are moved in.

    Where did you buy again?

    Southeast Blaine, off County J.

    It’s not a perfect location by any means, but it’s a great house in a good neighborhood.

    I’ll toss some eggs at it as I drive by tonight on the way home from work….

    congrats!

    W

    #153979 Quote
    5 O.T.5 O.T.
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    rowshkex wrote:


    gopherguy06 wrote:


    rowshkex wrote:


    Not only did we get the house we put an offer in on, but the inspection was today and showed basically nothing significant wrong with the house… It was “one of the nicest and most well-maintained houses” the guy has seen. :dup:

    Can’t get much better than that!

    Congrats! I know its been a process but you will be happy when you are moved in.

    Where did you buy again?

    Southeast Blaine, off County J.

    It’s not a perfect location by any means, but it’s a great house in a good neighborhood.

    [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLtbLw3viO0[/media]

    #153980 Quote
    rowshkexrowshkex
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    :lol:

    #153981 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    Congratulations!

    #153982 Quote
    Steve MNSteve MN
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    melmac wrote:


    At least it’s not GD Oakdale….

    Well… he’d have improved the family name in town, but I think DX poisoned that for him already :biggrin2:

    #153983 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    We have a wedge shaped yard on a cul-de-sac that backs up to 3 different houses behind us. All three houses, to the North of me, have put their gradening/grow operations at the edge of their yards against our shared property line.

    2 summers ago we lost a 65′ tall Ash tree in a storm. We didnt know what we wanted to do with figuring out a replacement, in the time that past, 2 backyard neighbors increased the size of their gardens/growing operations.

    This weekend I planted two 8′ tall trees finally, an oak and a maple, around 15 feet from the edge of our property in the back yard. 2 of those neighbors come out to tell me I need to move those trees to a different location because it will block the sunlight from their garden…

    I looked at the 8′ tall trees that have, maybe 40 leaves on them total right now, and said “I think it is going to be 8-10 years before we get any shade from these trees.” I was also told I couldn’t/shouldn’t plant my new trees near where the base of my old tree was due to the root systems. So it really starts to limit my options where I can put trees. I asked rhetorically where they would like the trees planted, and the spot they picked provided my neighbor to the east with more shade and privacy (in 10 years) than me, and I was the one buying the tree…

    I said I liked where I picked and already had the holes dug. The one woman said to me as she walked up her deck stairs “I’d hate to see something bad happen to those trees…”

    And to be honest, I was sick of looking at their compost bins, hose reels, all these plastic pails and elaborate watering setups. I could put up an 8′ tall privacy fence along that entire property line. That would be much worse for their gardens since they are directly against the property line.

    Am I being totally unreasonable? Do people ask their neighbors where to plant trees and things like this?

    #153984 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    We have a wedge shaped yard on a cul-de-sac that backs up to 3 different houses behind us. All three houses, to the North of me, have put their gradening/grow operations at the edge of their yards against our shared property line.

    2 summers ago we lost a 65′ tall Ash tree in a storm. We didnt know what we wanted to do with figuring out a replacement, in the time that past, 2 backyard neighbors increased the size of their gardens/growing operations.

    This weekend I planted two 8′ tall trees finally, an oak and a maple, around 15 feet from the edge of our property in the back yard. 2 of those neighbors come out to tell me I need to move those trees to a different location because it will block the sunlight from their garden…

    I looked at the 8′ tall trees that have, maybe 40 leaves on them total right now, and said “I think it is going to be 8-10 years before we get any shade from these trees.” I was also told I couldn’t/shouldn’t plant my new trees near where the base of my old tree was due to the root systems. So it really starts to limit my options where I can put trees. I asked rhetorically where they would like the trees planted, and the spot they picked provided my neighbor to the east with more shade and privacy (in 10 years) than me, and I was the one buying the tree…

    I said I liked where I picked and already had the holes dug. The one woman said to me as she walked up her deck stairs “I’d hate to see something bad happen to those trees…”

    And to be honest, I was sick of looking at their compost bins, hose reels, all these plastic pails and elaborate watering setups. I could put up an 8′ tall privacy fence along that entire property line. That would be much worse for their gardens since they are directly against the property line.

    Am I being totally unreasonable? Do people ask their neighbors where to plant trees and things like this?

    No. They are being unreasonable. It’s your yard. Plant trees where you want. If they are so worried about it, they can move their garden to a different spot in the yard a lot easier than you can move trees. JMO

    #153985 Quote
    J22J22
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    We have a wedge shaped yard on a cul-de-sac that backs up to 3 different houses behind us. All three houses, to the North of me, have put their gradening/grow operations at the edge of their yards against our shared property line.

    2 summers ago we lost a 65′ tall Ash tree in a storm. We didnt know what we wanted to do with figuring out a replacement, in the time that past, 2 backyard neighbors increased the size of their gardens/growing operations.

    This weekend I planted two 8′ tall trees finally, an oak and a maple, around 15 feet from the edge of our property in the back yard. 2 of those neighbors come out to tell me I need to move those trees to a different location because it will block the sunlight from their garden…

    I looked at the 8′ tall trees that have, maybe 40 leaves on them total right now, and said “I think it is going to be 8-10 years before we get any shade from these trees.” I was also told I couldn’t/shouldn’t plant my new trees near where the base of my old tree was due to the root systems. So it really starts to limit my options where I can put trees. I asked rhetorically where they would like the trees planted, and the spot they picked provided my neighbor to the east with more shade and privacy (in 10 years) than me, and I was the one buying the tree…

    I said I liked where I picked and already had the holes dug. The one woman said to me as she walked up her deck stairs “I’d hate to see something bad happen to those trees…”

    And to be honest, I was sick of looking at their compost bins, hose reels, all these plastic pails and elaborate watering setups. I could put up an 8′ tall privacy fence along that entire property line. That would be much worse for their gardens since they are directly against the property line.

    Am I being totally unreasonable? Do people ask their neighbors where to plant trees and things like this?

    Did they ask you for your opinion/permission on where they should plant their gardens?

    #153986 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    I used to be surprised when neighbors would try to dictate what you did in your own yard, but after being on my City Council for 5 years, nothing surprises me anymore.

    If you aren’t violating any ordinances and you are following setback guidelines, politely tell them to pack sand.

    #153987 Quote
    gopherguy06gopherguy06
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    We have a wedge shaped yard on a cul-de-sac that backs up to 3 different houses behind us. All three houses, to the North of me, have put their gradening/grow operations at the edge of their yards against our shared property line.

    2 summers ago we lost a 65′ tall Ash tree in a storm. We didnt know what we wanted to do with figuring out a replacement, in the time that past, 2 backyard neighbors increased the size of their gardens/growing operations.

    This weekend I planted two 8′ tall trees finally, an oak and a maple, around 15 feet from the edge of our property in the back yard. 2 of those neighbors come out to tell me I need to move those trees to a different location because it will block the sunlight from their garden…

    I looked at the 8′ tall trees that have, maybe 40 leaves on them total right now, and said “I think it is going to be 8-10 years before we get any shade from these trees.” I was also told I couldn’t/shouldn’t plant my new trees near where the base of my old tree was due to the root systems. So it really starts to limit my options where I can put trees. I asked rhetorically where they would like the trees planted, and the spot they picked provided my neighbor to the east with more shade and privacy (in 10 years) than me, and I was the one buying the tree…

    I said I liked where I picked and already had the holes dug. The one woman said to me as she walked up her deck stairs “I’d hate to see something bad happen to those trees…”

    And to be honest, I was sick of looking at their compost bins, hose reels, all these plastic pails and elaborate watering setups. I could put up an 8′ tall privacy fence along that entire property line. That would be much worse for their gardens since they are directly against the property line.

    Am I being totally unreasonable? Do people ask their neighbors where to plant trees and things like this?

    Nope… plant where you want. It is your yard and you have limied space. If they have an issue, they can move their garden.

    #153988 Quote
    georgegeorge
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    We have a wedge shaped yard on a cul-de-sac that backs up to 3 different houses behind us. All three houses, to the North of me, have put their gradening/grow operations at the edge of their yards against our shared property line.

    2 summers ago we lost a 65′ tall Ash tree in a storm. We didnt know what we wanted to do with figuring out a replacement, in the time that past, 2 backyard neighbors increased the size of their gardens/growing operations.

    This weekend I planted two 8′ tall trees finally, an oak and a maple, around 15 feet from the edge of our property in the back yard. 2 of those neighbors come out to tell me I need to move those trees to a different location because it will block the sunlight from their garden…

    I looked at the 8′ tall trees that have, maybe 40 leaves on them total right now, and said “I think it is going to be 8-10 years before we get any shade from these trees.” I was also told I couldn’t/shouldn’t plant my new trees near where the base of my old tree was due to the root systems. So it really starts to limit my options where I can put trees. I asked rhetorically where they would like the trees planted, and the spot they picked provided my neighbor to the east with more shade and privacy (in 10 years) than me, and I was the one buying the tree…

    I said I liked where I picked and already had the holes dug. The one woman said to me as she walked up her deck stairs “I’d hate to see something bad happen to those trees…”

    And to be honest, I was sick of looking at their compost bins, hose reels, all these plastic pails and elaborate watering setups. I could put up an 8′ tall privacy fence along that entire property line. That would be much worse for their gardens since they are directly against the property line.

    Am I being totally unreasonable? Do people ask their neighbors where to plant trees and things like this?

    Nope. And I’d be tempted to respond with “it would indeed, of course it’d be a shame if anything happened to your garden too.”

    #153989 Quote
    WPoSWPoS
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    george wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    We have a wedge shaped yard on a cul-de-sac that backs up to 3 different houses behind us. All three houses, to the North of me, have put their gradening/grow operations at the edge of their yards against our shared property line.

    2 summers ago we lost a 65′ tall Ash tree in a storm. We didnt know what we wanted to do with figuring out a replacement, in the time that past, 2 backyard neighbors increased the size of their gardens/growing operations.

    This weekend I planted two 8′ tall trees finally, an oak and a maple, around 15 feet from the edge of our property in the back yard. 2 of those neighbors come out to tell me I need to move those trees to a different location because it will block the sunlight from their garden…

    I looked at the 8′ tall trees that have, maybe 40 leaves on them total right now, and said “I think it is going to be 8-10 years before we get any shade from these trees.” I was also told I couldn’t/shouldn’t plant my new trees near where the base of my old tree was due to the root systems. So it really starts to limit my options where I can put trees. I asked rhetorically where they would like the trees planted, and the spot they picked provided my neighbor to the east with more shade and privacy (in 10 years) than me, and I was the one buying the tree…

    I said I liked where I picked and already had the holes dug. The one woman said to me as she walked up her deck stairs “I’d hate to see something bad happen to those trees…”

    And to be honest, I was sick of looking at their compost bins, hose reels, all these plastic pails and elaborate watering setups. I could put up an 8′ tall privacy fence along that entire property line. That would be much worse for their gardens since they are directly against the property line.

    Am I being totally unreasonable? Do people ask their neighbors where to plant trees and things like this?

    Nope. And I’d be tempted to respond with “it would indeed, of course it’d be a shame if anything happened to your garden too.”

    “sorry the weed killer that doesn’t affect grass killed your garden that abuts the property line the wind must have carried it….such a shame that happened…”

    actually I’d say screw ’em and put up the fence…ZERO they can say about that.

    W

    #153990 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    Thanks for the responses guys. All valid points. Honestly, I never thought planting a tree would be a big deal. If anything, I thought the neighbors might appreciate the tree. Shows what I know…

    As much as we want a fence, the $12k price tag (460 lineal feet) we have received from 2 different places is a bit steep right now. I cannot wait to see their reactions in a few years when we finally get around to installing that.

    #153991 Quote
    GreyeagleGreyeagle
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    The answer is simple: Build a replica of Fenway for whiffle ball with the green monster at that portion of your property line.

    #153992 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Greyeagle wrote:


    The answer is simple: Build a replica of Fenway for whiffle ball with the green monster at that portion of your property line.


    This. All of this. I will lend my skills at constructing this as well!!

    #153993 Quote
    Steve MNSteve MN
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    Greyeagle wrote:


    The answer is simple: Build a replica of Fenway for whiffle ball with the green monster at that portion of your property line.

    Where’d the thumbs-up button go? ;)

    This sounds like a perfect solution. :dup:

    #153994 Quote
    davescharfdavescharf
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    Steve MN wrote:


    Greyeagle wrote:


    The answer is simple: Build a replica of Fenway for whiffle ball with the green monster at that portion of your property line.

    Where’d the thumbs-up button go? ;)

    This sounds like a perfect solution. :dup:

    We are thinking about this all wrong. It needs to be a left field version of the old Baggie in the Dome.

    #153995 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    davescharf wrote:


    Steve MN wrote:


    Greyeagle wrote:


    The answer is simple: Build a replica of Fenway for whiffle ball with the green monster at that portion of your property line.

    Where’d the thumbs-up button go? ;)

    This sounds like a perfect solution. :dup:

    We are thinking about this all wrong. It needs to be a left field version of the old Baggie in the Dome.


    No. That should have never happened. And we need to forget about it.

    #153996 Quote
    rowshkexrowshkex
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    Less than 3 weeks until closing day on our first home!

    Questions for all you pro homeowners:

    1) Related to another question I recently asked… Where do people rent carpet steamers?

    2) Is it worth it to re-seal our hardwood floor? Or if we are considering re-staining it down the road, is it fine to wait until then to do anything with the floor?

    3) Is it easy enough to replace locks and deadbolts ourselves, or is it not worth the hassle and instead worth it to have a locksmith do it?

    #153997 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    rowshkex wrote:


    Less than 3 weeks until closing day on our first home!

    Questions for all you pro homeowners:

    1) Related to another question I recently asked… Where do people rent carpet steamers?

    2) Is it worth it to re-seal our hardwood floor? Or if we are considering re-staining it down the road, is it fine to wait until then to do anything with the floor?

    3) Is it easy enough to replace locks and deadbolts ourselves, or is it not worth the hassle and instead worth it to have a locksmith do it?


    1. Any hardware/home improvement store.

    2. It is worth it 110%. If you want to re-stain, just wait. Unless they are terrible.

    3. Easy to do yourself. Take them off and bring the key side to a hardware/home improvement store and they will do it. You will save a bunch of money.

    #153998 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    Somehow the drain plug in my floor drain in my laundry room is completely rusted to hell (not the bypass plug, the actual plug at the bottom of the drain).

    We’ve tried just about everything we can to get it to budge and it won’t frickin move. I’m no dainty guy and I was putting my whole weight into the socket wrench to try to move it and the damn thing wouldn’t even budge. Bought some “Knock Er Loose” stuff to try to get the rust to loosen up. Sprayed it on there the night before, then again in the morning, and a third layer right before we tried to give it hell, and nothing. Tried slamming it with a crowbar hoping to knock something loose. Nothing.

    We ended up taking an impact driver and drilling a couple holes into it (one on the top, two on the sides) to help with drainage when my AC is running. Obviously it’s a short term fix.

    Anybody got any other ideas on how the hell to get this frickin plug out of there?

    #153999 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    I’ve seen plumber cut a plug out of an old radiator. If you can get a big enough hole in the center of the plug to get a sawzall blade in, then you cut the plug from the center out until JUST before the threads. After a few cuts about 45 degrees apart you can knock out the piece of plug with a chisel.

    I know there is a This Old House segment on this.

    #154000 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    Beauner wrote:


    Somehow the drain plug in my floor drain in my laundry room is completely rusted to hell (not the bypass plug, the actual plug at the bottom of the drain).

    We’ve tried just about everything we can to get it to budge and it won’t frickin move. I’m no dainty guy and I was putting my whole weight into the socket wrench to try to move it and the damn thing wouldn’t even budge. Bought some “Knock Er Loose” stuff to try to get the rust to loosen up. Sprayed it on there the night before, then again in the morning, and a third layer right before we tried to give it hell, and nothing. Tried slamming it with a crowbar hoping to knock something loose. Nothing.

    We ended up taking an impact driver and drilling a couple holes into it (one on the top, two on the sides) to help with drainage when my AC is running. Obviously it’s a short term fix.

    Anybody got any other ideas on how the hell to get this frickin plug out of there?

    Guess you better sell and get a new house. It’s all downhill now.

    :mrgreen:

    (Didn’t you just recently move in?!)

    #154001 Quote
    ZwakZwak
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    Does anyone participate in a solar garden? Our community has the opportunity to participate. Not quite sure how they work and if it is worth it.

    #154002 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    Cowgirl wrote:


    Beauner wrote:


    Somehow the drain plug in my floor drain in my laundry room is completely rusted to hell (not the bypass plug, the actual plug at the bottom of the drain).

    We’ve tried just about everything we can to get it to budge and it won’t frickin move. I’m no dainty guy and I was putting my whole weight into the socket wrench to try to move it and the damn thing wouldn’t even budge. Bought some “Knock Er Loose” stuff to try to get the rust to loosen up. Sprayed it on there the night before, then again in the morning, and a third layer right before we tried to give it hell, and nothing. Tried slamming it with a crowbar hoping to knock something loose. Nothing.

    We ended up taking an impact driver and drilling a couple holes into it (one on the top, two on the sides) to help with drainage when my AC is running. Obviously it’s a short term fix.

    Anybody got any other ideas on how the hell to get this frickin plug out of there?

    Guess you better sell and get a new house. It’s all downhill now.

    :mrgreen:

    (Didn’t you just recently move in?!)

    Yeah moved in at the end of February. I better not be moving out any time soon. The home buying process sucked.

    #154003 Quote
    WPoSWPoS
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    Beauner wrote:


    Somehow the drain plug in my floor drain in my laundry room is completely rusted to hell (not the bypass plug, the actual plug at the bottom of the drain).

    We’ve tried just about everything we can to get it to budge and it won’t frickin move. I’m no dainty guy and I was putting my whole weight into the socket wrench to try to move it and the damn thing wouldn’t even budge. Bought some “Knock Er Loose” stuff to try to get the rust to loosen up. Sprayed it on there the night before, then again in the morning, and a third layer right before we tried to give it hell, and nothing. Tried slamming it with a crowbar hoping to knock something loose. Nothing.

    We ended up taking an impact driver and drilling a couple holes into it (one on the top, two on the sides) to help with drainage when my AC is running. Obviously it’s a short term fix.

    Anybody got any other ideas on how the hell to get this frickin plug out of there?

    heat. apply heat, as long as everything is metal you can use a MAP gas torch and heat it up and let it cool, cycle a few times and that helps. LOTS of what you call “knock er loose” and repeat. That’s how you take apart 60+year old vehicles w/o damaging sheet metal parts and fasteners.

    W

    #154004 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    WPoS wrote:


    Beauner wrote:


    Somehow the drain plug in my floor drain in my laundry room is completely rusted to hell (not the bypass plug, the actual plug at the bottom of the drain).

    We’ve tried just about everything we can to get it to budge and it won’t frickin move. I’m no dainty guy and I was putting my whole weight into the socket wrench to try to move it and the damn thing wouldn’t even budge. Bought some “Knock Er Loose” stuff to try to get the rust to loosen up. Sprayed it on there the night before, then again in the morning, and a third layer right before we tried to give it hell, and nothing. Tried slamming it with a crowbar hoping to knock something loose. Nothing.

    We ended up taking an impact driver and drilling a couple holes into it (one on the top, two on the sides) to help with drainage when my AC is running. Obviously it’s a short term fix.

    Anybody got any other ideas on how the hell to get this frickin plug out of there?

    heat. apply heat, as long as everything is metal you can use a MAP gas torch and heat it up and let it cool, cycle a few times and that helps. LOTS of what you call “knock er loose” and repeat. That’s how you take apart 60+year old vehicles w/o damaging sheet metal parts and fasteners.

    W

    Yeah we’re in the process of trying to track down a blowtorch to use.

    Is the flammability of Knock Er Loose something we’d need to be real concerned about when using the blowtorch to heat it?

    #154005 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    Beauner wrote:


    WPoS wrote:


    Beauner wrote:


    Somehow the drain plug in my floor drain in my laundry room is completely rusted to hell (not the bypass plug, the actual plug at the bottom of the drain).

    We’ve tried just about everything we can to get it to budge and it won’t frickin move. I’m no dainty guy and I was putting my whole weight into the socket wrench to try to move it and the damn thing wouldn’t even budge. Bought some “Knock Er Loose” stuff to try to get the rust to loosen up. Sprayed it on there the night before, then again in the morning, and a third layer right before we tried to give it hell, and nothing. Tried slamming it with a crowbar hoping to knock something loose. Nothing.

    We ended up taking an impact driver and drilling a couple holes into it (one on the top, two on the sides) to help with drainage when my AC is running. Obviously it’s a short term fix.

    Anybody got any other ideas on how the hell to get this frickin plug out of there?

    heat. apply heat, as long as everything is metal you can use a MAP gas torch and heat it up and let it cool, cycle a few times and that helps. LOTS of what you call “knock er loose” and repeat. That’s how you take apart 60+year old vehicles w/o damaging sheet metal parts and fasteners.

    W

    Yeah we’re in the process of trying to track down a blowtorch to use.

    Is the flammability of Knock Er Loose something we’d need to be real concerned about when using the blowtorch to heat it?

    I think he was referencing just good ol’ beating the crap out of it…..but I could be wrong. I tend to stay away from the home projects. Although I think a fight with our insurance over a leaking roof is impending…wish us luck.

    #154006 Quote
    Kelly RedKelly Red
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    rowshkex wrote:


    Less than 3 weeks until closing day on our first home!

    Questions for all you pro homeowners:

    1) Related to another question I recently asked… Where do people rent carpet steamers?

    2) Is it worth it to re-seal our hardwood floor? Or if we are considering re-staining it down the road, is it fine to wait until then to do anything with the floor?

    3) Is it easy enough to replace locks and deadbolts ourselves, or is it not worth the hassle and instead worth it to have a locksmith do it?

    Can I make just one comment on the re-sealing your floors. If you are seriously thinking of restraining, do it NOW. It is a huge hassle to remove and store all the furniture, you can’t walk on the new floors for at least 48 hours, and the smell is strong. Do it before you move in and the room is already empty and clean. They often don’t recommend having open windows when re-sealing because you don’t want dust or bugs to get stuck in the coating. The smell is quite sharp and no open windows traps it for a few days. It is headache inducing. I know you probably worry about scratches when you finally do move in furniture but some large drop cloths and a firmly worded warning to the movers usually takes care of that. I can not emphasize enough what a huge disruption this process is, do it before you make it worse on your family. It may seem like an added expense you don’t want right now, but the saving of your sanity will off set any $$

    #154007 Quote
    BeaunerBeauner
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    Kelly Red wrote:


    rowshkex wrote:


    Less than 3 weeks until closing day on our first home!

    Questions for all you pro homeowners:

    1) Related to another question I recently asked… Where do people rent carpet steamers?

    2) Is it worth it to re-seal our hardwood floor? Or if we are considering re-staining it down the road, is it fine to wait until then to do anything with the floor?

    3) Is it easy enough to replace locks and deadbolts ourselves, or is it not worth the hassle and instead worth it to have a locksmith do it?

    Can I make just one comment on the re-sealing your floors. If you are seriously thinking of restraining, do it NOW. It is a huge hassle to remove and store all the furniture, you can’t walk on the new floors for at least 48 hours, and the smell is strong. Do it before you move in and the room is already empty and clean. They often don’t recommend having open windows when re-sealing because you don’t want dust or bugs to get stuck in the coating. The smell is quite sharp and no open windows traps it for a few days. It is headache inducing. I know you probably worry about scratches when you finally do move in furniture but some large drop cloths and a firmly worded warning to the movers usually takes care of that. I can not emphasize enough what a huge disruption this process is, do it before you make it worse on your family. It may seem like an added expense you don’t want right now, but the saving of your sanity will off set any $$

    This. I remember when my dad decided to re-stain the floors at their house one summer. The smell was ridiculous and it was borderline impossible to get around the area that was re-stained and resealed. Throw in having to move furniture around possibly… If you’re thinking of doing it anytime in the next 5-7 years, just do it now IMO.

    #154008 Quote
    Kelly RedKelly Red
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    Beauner wrote:


    Kelly Red wrote:


    rowshkex wrote:


    Less than 3 weeks until closing day on our first home!

    Questions for all you pro homeowners:

    1) Related to another question I recently asked… Where do people rent carpet steamers?

    2) Is it worth it to re-seal our hardwood floor? Or if we are considering re-staining it down the road, is it fine to wait until then to do anything with the floor?

    3) Is it easy enough to replace locks and deadbolts ourselves, or is it not worth the hassle and instead worth it to have a locksmith do it?

    Can I make just one comment on the re-sealing your floors. If you are seriously thinking of restraining, do it NOW. It is a huge hassle to remove and store all the furniture, you can’t walk on the new floors for at least 48 hours, and the smell is strong. Do it before you move in and the room is already empty and clean. They often don’t recommend having open windows when re-sealing because you don’t want dust or bugs to get stuck in the coating. The smell is quite sharp and no open windows traps it for a few days. It is headache inducing. I know you probably worry about scratches when you finally do move in furniture but some large drop cloths and a firmly worded warning to the movers usually takes care of that. I can not emphasize enough what a huge disruption this process is, do it before you make it worse on your family. It may seem like an added expense you don’t want right now, but the saving of your sanity will off set any $$

    This. I remember when my dad decided to re-stain the floors at their house one summer. The smell was ridiculous and it was borderline impossible to get around the area that was re-stained and resealed. Throw in having to move furniture around possibly… If you’re thinking of doing it anytime in the next 5-7 years, just do it now IMO.


    Plus I forgot to mention, staining and re-sealing require separate drying times. So you have to avoid walking on the new stain AND the new sealant, this could mean up to 78 or 120 hours. Add in furniture storage costs, hotel cost for 3-4 days, pet boarding and it can all be very expensive to wait. If you can swing it now before you actually move in it will be so much easier. I am speaking from personal experience, one of our biggest home mistakes was waiting a few years to redo the floors. Our main floor is pretty continuous so we had to empty out living, dining, sunroom and my office to get stain and sealant even. It was a logicistal nightmare and the above added expense added to the stress. I wish we had done it before moving in. Hindsight advice for you :dup:

    #154009 Quote
    rowshkexrowshkex
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    Fair enough, thanks for the ideas. We certainly don’t have the money (or the time for that matter) to do it before we move in, and it’s not something we feel is absolutely necessary anyway–I just would rather have slightly darker floors, so it’s purely preference. The floors are in great shape, so I’m not overly tempted to do anything to them anyway.

    But either way, it’s good to hear those experiences for down the line if we do consider it in the future. Fortunately all the extra expenses wouldn’t be an issue for us, but still.

    #154010 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    rowshkex wrote:


    Fair enough, thanks for the ideas. We certainly don’t have the money (or the time for that matter) to do it before we move in, and it’s not something we feel is absolutely necessary anyway–I just would rather have slightly darker floors, so it’s purely preference. The floors are in great shape, so I’m not overly tempted to do anything to them anyway.

    But either way, it’s good to hear those experiences for down the line if we do consider it in the future. Fortunately all the extra expenses wouldn’t be an issue for us, but still.


    It is easy to go darker later. It is much harder to go lighter. It is possible with oxalic acid ‘bleach’ but a hassle. So if the floor is in good shape and all you want to do is get it a little darker or richer hues – it can wait and easily be done later when you really need to redo the whole floor again. But you will want to completely remove existing varnish / urethane sealer prior to new stain or it can be blotchy.

    I have done floors quite a number of times over almost 40 years – always had hardwood. I have torn up badly damaged floor and put in new from scratch. I have repaired very old damaged floor part by part as needed [termites in Iowa and another badly burned floor where prior owner dropped a cigarette over carpet – then covered with new carpet]… I have refinished using the big push sanders [fast but can eat a floor badly if unskilled] and have stripped and sanded ‘by hand’ [six inch rotary orbital sander on hands and knees]. You name it and I have done it with wood floors. It isn’t as hard as it sounds.

    All the hassles you read above are legit. Probably the worst though is if you have area carpet in part of the room over sealed wood floor. While you can walk in stocking feet on cured varnish after about 12 hours. As mentioned above, pets with claws, people wearing shoes and furniture you should wait longer, like 72 hours… But if you have area rugs and carpets – they should stay off newly varnished sealed floors for almost a month… or they can partially fuse to the sealant. Especially if there is backing or no-slip liner under the rug. The chemicals in the backing and urethane really like to bond.

    So… we usually do floors prior to buying new area rugs or if they are out for maintenance and cleaning – that can take a month total turnaround so it works pretty well for us.

    Good luck – have fun with those floors.

    #154011 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    So, I use Minwax polyacrylic for almost all of my finishing projects. Some say it is better on floors than polyurethane.

    You can recoat in about an hour or less so the time on it is way better than its oil-based brother.

    #154012 Quote
    KarlssonKarlsson
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    Our main level hardwood floor is on my radar. The scratches from the dog nails are getting more noticeable. Won’t be happening for a while though, little tight on money.

    #154013 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    So, I use Minwax polyacrylic for almost all of my finishing projects. Some say it is better on floors than polyurethane.

    You can recoat in about an hour or less so the time on it is way better than its oil-based brother.


    I will look into that. Thanks.

    One thing I always consider is how often I plan to refinish a floor. If often I tend to use something easy to strip – like gym seal. It’s soft but resurfaces real easy. In areas where I don’t plan to resurface often and might have water – bathroom kitchen – I use polyurethane … but man is it hard to strip if you need to get down to bare wood again.

    #154014 Quote
    WPoSWPoS
    • Posts: 65
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    Beauner wrote:


    WPoS wrote:


    Beauner wrote:


    Somehow the drain plug in my floor drain in my laundry room is completely rusted to hell (not the bypass plug, the actual plug at the bottom of the drain).

    We’ve tried just about everything we can to get it to budge and it won’t frickin move. I’m no dainty guy and I was putting my whole weight into the socket wrench to try to move it and the damn thing wouldn’t even budge. Bought some “Knock Er Loose” stuff to try to get the rust to loosen up. Sprayed it on there the night before, then again in the morning, and a third layer right before we tried to give it hell, and nothing. Tried slamming it with a crowbar hoping to knock something loose. Nothing.

    We ended up taking an impact driver and drilling a couple holes into it (one on the top, two on the sides) to help with drainage when my AC is running. Obviously it’s a short term fix.

    Anybody got any other ideas on how the hell to get this frickin plug out of there?

    heat. apply heat, as long as everything is metal you can use a MAP gas torch and heat it up and let it cool, cycle a few times and that helps. LOTS of what you call “knock er loose” and repeat. That’s how you take apart 60+year old vehicles w/o damaging sheet metal parts and fasteners.

    W

    Yeah we’re in the process of trying to track down a blowtorch to use.

    Is the flammability of Knock Er Loose something we’d need to be real concerned about when using the blowtorch to heat it?

    torch away….I do all the time.

    #1 the volume is low

    #2 you let it sit for a while so the volatile stuff will be gone

    W

    #154015 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    So in the wonderful heat late last week, we noticed our A/C wasn’t working great. It would try to cool, and then after 15 minutes or so the saver switch would shut it off (stupid saver switch, I need to disable that thing…). However in years past, it could usually catch up in that time, so we had someone look at it on Friday.

    They found our 17 year old, Payne A/C unit was low on R22. They couldn’t say how low, and didn’t recommend topping it off. As it could take up to 5 lbs at $85 per pound and no idea of how long that would last since there was already a leak. And that a leak wasn’t worth chasing down on that old of a unit because none of the new parts support the R22, so it would be futile and wasted money. I opted to top it off and see how long we can last and luckily it only took 1 pound. That being said I am looking into a replacement…

    I got a quote from them for $4k for a 16seer mid-range model (new outdoor unit, evap coil, etc). My electric company only gives me a rebate of $100 for a 16 seer or greater unit. However, I can get a $500 rebate on a heat pump, and half-price electricity on it through a metered use program. However, he said he “cannot find an indoor unit for my equipment to pair with a heat pump”. He also said heat pumps aren’t really worth it in MN unless you’re on propane, the payoff is too long. This particular company also offers a 17 seer AC Unit that has a 2 stage compressor, but I was told that is a significant price increase as well.

    Can I expect a new AC to last me another 17 years? Or are they built to be disposable now just like many major home appliances?

    Our furnace is a 7 year old Carrier Performance 96, that seems to work well. It was replace 1 year before we moved in. So while the old owner got the 10 year warranty, we only got the 5 year transfer warranty and of course last year had the inducer motor go out… Do I need to stick with a Carrier AC unit to get them to perform well together or can any of them really work together?

    Does anyone here run a heat pump or a 2-stage A/C unit that could offer some comparisons? $4k feels like quite a bit for a “mid-range” unit, and they are about 1 month out on installs right now, but maybe thats the going rate now. Any insight would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

    George, any insight?

    #154016 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    So in the wonderful heat late last week, we noticed our A/C wasn’t working great. It would try to cool, and then after 15 minutes or so the saver switch would shut it off (stupid saver switch, I need to disable that thing…). However in years past, it could usually catch up in that time, so we had someone look at it on Friday.

    They found our 17 year old, Payne A/C unit was low on R22. They couldn’t say how low, and didn’t recommend topping it off. As it could take up to 5 lbs at $85 per pound and no idea of how long that would last since there was already a leak. And that a leak wasn’t worth chasing down on that old of a unit because none of the new parts support the R22, so it would be futile and wasted money. I opted to top it off and see how long we can last and luckily it only took 1 pound. That being said I am looking into a replacement…

    I got a quote from them for $4k for a 16seer mid-range model (new outdoor unit, evap coil, etc). My electric company only gives me a rebate of $100 for a 16 seer or greater unit. However, I can get a $500 rebate on a heat pump, and half-price electricity on it through a metered use program. However, he said he “cannot find an indoor unit for my equipment to pair with a heat pump”. He also said heat pumps aren’t really worth it in MN unless you’re on propane, the payoff is too long. This particular company also offers a 17 seer AC Unit that has a 2 stage compressor, but I was told that is a significant price increase as well.

    Can I expect a new AC to last me another 17 years? Or are they built to be disposable now just like many major home appliances?

    Our furnace is a 7 year old Carrier Performance 96, that seems to work well. It was replace 1 year before we moved in. So while the old owner got the 10 year warranty, we only got the 5 year transfer warranty and of course last year had the inducer motor go out… Do I need to stick with a Carrier AC unit to get them to perform well together or can any of them really work together?

    Does anyone here run a heat pump or a 2-stage A/C unit that could offer some comparisons? $4k feels like quite a bit for a “mid-range” unit, and they are about 1 month out on installs right now, but maybe thats the going rate now. Any insight would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

    George, any insight?


    Not George but I have a little insight – I am helping my friend on a start up company and am researching HVAC like crazy for him. He is trying to develop HVAC product solutions specifically for developing world but would also like to tap into more remote US markets. Not necessarily off grid but lets say ‘grid challenged applications’. I am no where near an expert like George is but talking to A LOT of manufacturers and their tech staff about things like reliability and warranty and real world performance [vs.standard boiler plate claims they provide on their websites].

    Per 17 year life span – I doubt it. The engineers I talk to say 10 years is really the maximum a person should expect and that only if they maintain the equipment well.

    Two reason to assume shorter life expectancy:

    One reason is technology is exploding in this area. While 16 SEER seems like pretty good performance its not that unusual to see performance now in the 20’s for standard commercial units. We are specifying AC to DC POWER inverter and or straight DC units all with variable drive motors. Most of what we are looking at will be mini-split but I am told there are traditional North American style AC units out there using invertor technology now too. Prices are dropping fast and efficiency improving.

    https://www.inventorairconditioner.com/blog/faq/what-is-the-inverter-technology-in-air-conditioners

    Point is in ten years you will want to swap it out anyway just to save on energy which is likely to increase in price A LOT over the next decade.

    The other reason you might have to replace sooner than your old unit is while engineers do a much better job of designing product to have very high initial quality [few defects off the line or inside the warranty period] they are not over engineering products for consumer market like they used to. This isn’t planned obsolescence as much as it is trading off initial cost to buy [over engineered parts are expensive] vs longer term reliability. You might get more than ten years out of the thing but I doubt it. I work with design engineers in a lot of fields and this is a fairly universal trend for consumer products like household utilities and appliances.

    As for heat pumps – I think they are great. Again inverter technology only. If I was putting in a new AC system it absolutely would be a heat pump like that. But I would only expect to use it to heat in spring and fall – midwinter you still need a furnace in Minnesota.

    Furnaces are generally more efficient and lower energy cost but only when running fairly hard at near steady state [meaning on more than off]. In the fall and spring that isn’t usually the case. Inverter based motors are variable so the heat pump is always on but running at demand – so not much on and off. Very efficient.

    I would have a more detailed discussion with your contractor – do a little more reading and hopefully others will chime in with their 2 cents.

    What I learned is its a lot more complicated today than ever and the systems are in a state of flux. Even today’s ‘new’ solutions could be obsolete in a couple decades. It is crazy how this industry is changing.

    #154017 Quote
    georgegeorge
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    Sorry to reply so late, wanted to do it on a computer versus my phone.

    First, I am not an expert on residential equipment, but I know a little. Much of what dryfly says is correct, but I take issue with a few things.

    First, I see no reason to expect energy prices to go up significantly in the next decade. Perhaps if we were keeping with the Paris Accord, but not otherwise. I do expect electric cost to go up more than fuel costs though. There are still lots of fields to be fracked and I expect natural gas prices to stay low as a result.

    Second, fuel fired heating does really well in turn down mode in the shoulder seasons while heat pump efficacy falls off rapidly with falling outdoor temperatures. Heat pumps have really extended their range down to being able to generate heat at lower outdoor temps, but their efficiency at those temps really falls off rapidly and no technology will change that – it’s thermodynamics that determine that. Even if a residential furnace does have to cycle from off to on to off for heating, it’s still more efficient at low outside temps than a heat pump is. The heat pump will also obviously be more impacted by rising electrical costs. Bottom line is I’m not a huge fan of heat pumps in Minnesota, unless they are water source – not usual in residential.

    As to inverter technology I don’t see that being so prevalent in residential equipment, I’d expect to see more ECM (electronically commutated motors) for the smaller motors on residential equipment.

    I do agree that it’s unlikely you’ll (we’ll) get 17 years out of residential equipment in the future. Ten to 15 is more likely.

    There is no reason that the furnace and condensing unit/A coil would have to be by the same manufacturer. There is some minor interface regarding fan/off but otherwise the thermostat just controls both devices as needed.

    I hope this is some help, feel free to PM me or email me at home (I’m not at E-P anymore).

    #154018 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    george wrote:


    Sorry to reply so late, wanted to do it on a computer versus my phone.

    First, I am not an expert on residential equipment, but I know a little. Much of what dryfly says is correct, but I take issue with a few things.

    First, I see no reason to expect energy prices to go up significantly in the next decade. Perhaps if we were keeping with the Paris Accord, but not otherwise. I do expect electric cost to go up more than fuel costs though. There are still lots of fields to be fracked and I expect natural gas prices to stay low as a result.

    Second, fuel fired heating does really well in turn down mode in the shoulder seasons while heat pump efficacy falls off rapidly with falling outdoor temperatures. Heat pumps have really extended their range down to being able to generate heat at lower outdoor temps, but their efficiency at those temps really falls off rapidly and no technology will change that – it’s thermodynamics that determine that. Even if a residential furnace does have to cycle from off to on to off for heating, it’s still more efficient at low outside temps than a heat pump is. The heat pump will also obviously be more impacted by rising electrical costs. Bottom line is I’m not a huge fan of heat pumps in Minnesota, unless they are water source – not usual in residential.

    As to inverter technology I don’t see that being so prevalent in residential equipment, I’d expect to see more ECM (electronically commutated motors) for the smaller motors on residential equipment.

    I do agree that it’s unlikely you’ll (we’ll) get 17 years out of residential equipment in the future. Ten to 15 is more likely.

    There is no reason that the furnace and condensing unit/A coil would have to be by the same manufacturer. There is some minor interface regarding fan/off but otherwise the thermostat just controls both devices as needed.

    I hope this is some help, feel free to PM me or email me at home (I’m not at E-P anymore).


    Thanks – I was waiting your reply too.

    I was not a huge fan of heat pumps here until lately but they have improved so much I absolutely would look at one IF I was putting in new AC. The additional cost for heat pump traded off against added versatility [especially with interrupted power discounts] makes them something people should at least be aware of.

    As for residential AC with inverter technology it is just now coming on to the market in a big way. They are currently expensive but prices are dropping. Lennox I know offers one with SEER 25 and is even solar off-grid ready. I know because we are looking at that for developing world applications where electrical prices are 2-3X what they are in US. Right now most high SEER units like that are mini-split but I have started seeing traditional US-style residential units like the Lennox one starting to be offered. There will be more.

    As for why I see energy prices going up has nothing to do with Paris [either being in or out – no factor]. It is macro economics. We have been in a commodities super cycle for some time [all commodities – food like corn/wheat and metals like ore/aluminum and energy nat gas/oil]. A decade or more ago they were increasing globally and peaked [corn got up to something like $6/bu and oil near $100/bbl]… capacity was added faster than demand and the prices crashed. Capacity and new supply has NOT been added aggressively since then due to weak pricing but demand continues to expand. Look for prices to strengthen gradually for all of them over the next 10-20 years as demand catches up with current supply. Since adding supply takes quite a lot of time the opportunity for overshoot on prices is likely.

    Our electrical grid was somewhat insulated from this because we had such low natural gas prices – due to fracking in the Marcellus primarily but elsewhere too. Nat gas is the ‘marginal input’ affecting base line pricing for all other sources. It puts very intense price pressure on the other energy sources for electricity – coal nuclear and alternative. Historically nat gas was very difficult to transport internationally – its a gas you can’t just fill up a tanker and ship it. So was priced regionally – might be low here in US but high in Europe because it didn’t transport easily. That is changing with improvements in LNG technology. We are bringing online quite a few very large LNG plants with tanker load-out capability and there are more and more vessels capable of transporting LNG every year. Transport is getting easier and less expensive.

    So there is expectation that our low natural gas prices will eventually merge with higher international prices. Natural gas will still be abundant here but priced higher – more in line with international markets not unlike how oil and grain and metals price. That is what will be driving our electrical prices higher over the next ten to twenty years – without super low cost natural gas pricing at the margin the generating costs will go up across the board.

    Now I was told that by oil and gas people who have ‘an interest’ in seeing this happen. Maybe its just wishful thinking on their part but they have been more right than wrong over the years so I think they will be mostly right again. My biggest skepticism is ‘how soon’ and ‘how much’? There YMMV.

    Again – thanks for your input.

    #154019 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    Thank you both for your feedback, very much appreciated.

    I have had 3 companies look at, and price it – as well as get some better explanations from them.

    It is not that they cannot find an indoor coil to pair with the unit, it is that they cannot find one to pair that will give them an official “SEER Rating” that the electrical company will accept for the rebate. I get $600 back for 14 SEER or better Heat Pump, but because I am not replacing the furnace at the same time, I cannot get the highest SEER rating, and other calculations bring the official rating to below 14 even though it will likely operate better than that. I have a 3-speed, DC motor on my furnace, but because it isn’t new, I get the basic SEER rating, which is lower than the advertised rating. So they can get me a heat pump, just not necessarily one that qualifies for the $600 rebate.

    Also, while there are some ultra-high efficient, and solar ready units, cost grows exponentially with those features. Once we get above 14-16 SEER, cost gets pretty high… I have prices from Lennox, Carrier and Bryant. All prices are remarkably similar.

    The 2.5-ton Heat Pumps are looking like right around $6,000 installed. My $600 rebate brings me down to $5,400 but I do get half price electric rates on a metered program. A 3-ton 16 SEER, 2-stage A/C unit is looking like $5,400-$5,600 and a $100 rebate gets me to, lets call it $5,400 as well. About the same price as the Heat Pump. All 3 then have some 2.5-ton 14 SEER AC units for $3,800-$4,000 installed with the same $100 rebate. I think, over the course of 10 years, I am unlikely to see a cost savings of $1,400 between the higher level 2-stage AC or Heat Pump, as compared to the 14 SEER unit.

    Not to mention, for Carrier and Lennox at least (Bryant was unsure), my Ecobee3 Thermostat will not (or so I am told) make use of the 2-stage cooling, variable speed, etc. of the 2-stage unit and I would need a $300+ thermostat to pair with it. It also seems, to me at least, that this is pretty new technology and more parts to break and go wrong. They all offer 10 year warranty on parts, but only 1 year on labor.

    So maybe the best plan is to keep it simple and more cost effective to go with the 14 SEER, single stage A/C.

    #154020 Quote
    Slap ShotSlap Shot
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    Apologies if this has already been a topic, but does anyone have experience with owning a home and renting it out as a, “rent to own” agreement? How does it work, do you recommend it, pros, cons, etc? We honestly don’t really want to sell our house, but owning property half a world away sometimes has it’s problems. :(

    Thanks

    #154021 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Slap Shot wrote:


    Apologies if this has already been a topic, but does anyone have experience with owning a home and renting it out as a, “rent to own” agreement? How does it work, do you recommend it, pros, cons, etc? We honestly don’t really want to sell our house, but owning property half a world away sometimes has it’s problems. :(

    Thanks


    Contract for Deed is what it is called and rather than me blab about it, this describes the pros and cons pretty well.

    https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/community-dividend/risks-and-realities-of-the-contract-for-deed” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/community-dividend/risks-and-realities-of-the-contract-for-deed

    #154022 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thank you both for your feedback, very much appreciated.

    I have had 3 companies look at, and price it – as well as get some better explanations from them.

    It is not that they cannot find an indoor coil to pair with the unit, it is that they cannot find one to pair that will give them an official “SEER Rating” that the electrical company will accept for the rebate. I get $600 back for 14 SEER or better Heat Pump, but because I am not replacing the furnace at the same time, I cannot get the highest SEER rating, and other calculations bring the official rating to below 14 even though it will likely operate better than that. I have a 3-speed, DC motor on my furnace, but because it isn’t new, I get the basic SEER rating, which is lower than the advertised rating. So they can get me a heat pump, just not necessarily one that qualifies for the $600 rebate.

    Also, while there are some ultra-high efficient, and solar ready units, cost grows exponentially with those features. Once we get above 14-16 SEER, cost gets pretty high… I have prices from Lennox, Carrier and Bryant. All prices are remarkably similar.

    The 2.5-ton Heat Pumps are looking like right around $6,000 installed. My $600 rebate brings me down to $5,400 but I do get half price electric rates on a metered program. A 3-ton 16 SEER, 2-stage A/C unit is looking like $5,400-$5,600 and a $100 rebate gets me to, lets call it $5,400 as well. About the same price as the Heat Pump. All 3 then have some 2.5-ton 14 SEER AC units for $3,800-$4,000 installed with the same $100 rebate. I think, over the course of 10 years, I am unlikely to see a cost savings of $1,400 between the higher level 2-stage AC or Heat Pump, as compared to the 14 SEER unit.

    Not to mention, for Carrier and Lennox at least (Bryant was unsure), my Ecobee3 Thermostat will not (or so I am told) make use of the 2-stage cooling, variable speed, etc. of the 2-stage unit and I would need a $300+ thermostat to pair with it. It also seems, to me at least, that this is pretty new technology and more parts to break and go wrong. They all offer 10 year warranty on parts, but only 1 year on labor.

    So maybe the best plan is to keep it simple and more cost effective to go with the 14 SEER, single stage A/C.


    Might be best. Go simple and look at a complete overhaul later if energy prices dictate. We are in a similar boat – sort of. Should have put in central air years ago just never did – have a window unit in the bedroom and one in the office. Big windows throughout the house with cross ventilation and fans. Works most days. The few it doesn’t we hole up in a bedroom. It’s what folks did 100 years ago.

    My furnace is ancient – like 60 years old – but well built and easy for me to maintain (I can clean and check myself easily). My HVAC guy just laughs when he sees it – love to sell me a new one but says the energy savings wouldn’t be enough to justify new. So I put it off waiting for it to fail and it never does. He has been waiting to close that sale for 20 years.

    When it does though I plan to go all in – new furnace and central air and all new duct work in basement – THAT is when I look really hard at heat pumps for the AC part. If all I am doing is modernizing to sell – I won’t go with the heat pump. Buyers won’t appreciate it.

    Let us know what you do and how you like it – might help us make that decision ourselves. Good luck.

    #154023 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    dryfly wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thank you both for your feedback, very much appreciated.

    I have had 3 companies look at, and price it – as well as get some better explanations from them.

    It is not that they cannot find an indoor coil to pair with the unit, it is that they cannot find one to pair that will give them an official “SEER Rating” that the electrical company will accept for the rebate. I get $600 back for 14 SEER or better Heat Pump, but because I am not replacing the furnace at the same time, I cannot get the highest SEER rating, and other calculations bring the official rating to below 14 even though it will likely operate better than that. I have a 3-speed, DC motor on my furnace, but because it isn’t new, I get the basic SEER rating, which is lower than the advertised rating. So they can get me a heat pump, just not necessarily one that qualifies for the $600 rebate.

    Also, while there are some ultra-high efficient, and solar ready units, cost grows exponentially with those features. Once we get above 14-16 SEER, cost gets pretty high… I have prices from Lennox, Carrier and Bryant. All prices are remarkably similar.

    The 2.5-ton Heat Pumps are looking like right around $6,000 installed. My $600 rebate brings me down to $5,400 but I do get half price electric rates on a metered program. A 3-ton 16 SEER, 2-stage A/C unit is looking like $5,400-$5,600 and a $100 rebate gets me to, lets call it $5,400 as well. About the same price as the Heat Pump. All 3 then have some 2.5-ton 14 SEER AC units for $3,800-$4,000 installed with the same $100 rebate. I think, over the course of 10 years, I am unlikely to see a cost savings of $1,400 between the higher level 2-stage AC or Heat Pump, as compared to the 14 SEER unit.

    Not to mention, for Carrier and Lennox at least (Bryant was unsure), my Ecobee3 Thermostat will not (or so I am told) make use of the 2-stage cooling, variable speed, etc. of the 2-stage unit and I would need a $300+ thermostat to pair with it. It also seems, to me at least, that this is pretty new technology and more parts to break and go wrong. They all offer 10 year warranty on parts, but only 1 year on labor.

    So maybe the best plan is to keep it simple and more cost effective to go with the 14 SEER, single stage A/C.


    Might be best. Go simple and look at a complete overhaul later if energy prices dictate. We are in a similar boat – sort of. Should have put in central air years ago just never did – have a window unit in the bedroom and one in the office. Big windows throughout the house with cross ventilation and fans. Works most days. The few it doesn’t we hole up in a bedroom. It’s what folks did 100 years ago.

    My furnace is ancient – like 60 years old – but well built and easy for me to maintain (I can clean and check myself easily). My HVAC guy just laughs when he sees it – love to sell me a new one but says the energy savings wouldn’t be enough to justify new. So I put it off waiting for it to fail and it never does. He has been waiting to close that sale for 20 years.

    When it does though I plan to go all in – new furnace and central air and all new duct work in basement – THAT is when I look really hard at heat pumps for the AC part. If all I am doing is modernizing to sell – I won’t go with the heat pump. Buyers won’t appreciate it.

    Let us know what you do and how you like it – might help us make that decision ourselves. Good luck.


    The energy savings on a new furnace don’t justify replacement? Wow. My old house was 2400 sq ft and I had a 15 year old Lenox furnace that was in tip top condition, but not high efficiency. My new house is 3600 sq ft and with the 6 year old high efficiency furnace I pay about 2/3rds the heating cost of my previous, smaller house. Add in my new house has 2.5 floors above ground and twice the windows (less efficient windows too), I can’t believe you haven’t switched.

    #154024 Quote
    Kelly RedKelly Red
    • Posts: 497
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    dryfly wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thank you both for your feedback, very much appreciated.

    I have had 3 companies look at, and price it – as well as get some better explanations from them.

    It is not that they cannot find an indoor coil to pair with the unit, it is that they cannot find one to pair that will give them an official “SEER Rating” that the electrical company will accept for the rebate. I get $600 back for 14 SEER or better Heat Pump, but because I am not replacing the furnace at the same time, I cannot get the highest SEER rating, and other calculations bring the official rating to below 14 even though it will likely operate better than that. I have a 3-speed, DC motor on my furnace, but because it isn’t new, I get the basic SEER rating, which is lower than the advertised rating. So they can get me a heat pump, just not necessarily one that qualifies for the $600 rebate.

    Also, while there are some ultra-high efficient, and solar ready units, cost grows exponentially with those features. Once we get above 14-16 SEER, cost gets pretty high… I have prices from Lennox, Carrier and Bryant. All prices are remarkably similar.

    The 2.5-ton Heat Pumps are looking like right around $6,000 installed. My $600 rebate brings me down to $5,400 but I do get half price electric rates on a metered program. A 3-ton 16 SEER, 2-stage A/C unit is looking like $5,400-$5,600 and a $100 rebate gets me to, lets call it $5,400 as well. About the same price as the Heat Pump. All 3 then have some 2.5-ton 14 SEER AC units for $3,800-$4,000 installed with the same $100 rebate. I think, over the course of 10 years, I am unlikely to see a cost savings of $1,400 between the higher level 2-stage AC or Heat Pump, as compared to the 14 SEER unit.

    Not to mention, for Carrier and Lennox at least (Bryant was unsure), my Ecobee3 Thermostat will not (or so I am told) make use of the 2-stage cooling, variable speed, etc. of the 2-stage unit and I would need a $300+ thermostat to pair with it. It also seems, to me at least, that this is pretty new technology and more parts to break and go wrong. They all offer 10 year warranty on parts, but only 1 year on labor.

    So maybe the best plan is to keep it simple and more cost effective to go with the 14 SEER, single stage A/C.


    Might be best. Go simple and look at a complete overhaul later if energy prices dictate. We are in a similar boat – sort of. Should have put in central air years ago just never did – have a window unit in the bedroom and one in the office. Big windows throughout the house with cross ventilation and fans. Works most days. The few it doesn’t we hole up in a bedroom. It’s what folks did 100 years ago.

    My furnace is ancient – like 60 years old – but well built and easy for me to maintain (I can clean and check myself easily). My HVAC guy just laughs when he sees it – love to sell me a new one but says the energy savings wouldn’t be enough to justify new. So I put it off waiting for it to fail and it never does. He has been waiting to close that sale for 20 years.

    When it does though I plan to go all in – new furnace and central air and all new duct work in basement – THAT is when I look really hard at heat pumps for the AC part. If all I am doing is modernizing to sell – I won’t go with the heat pump. Buyers won’t appreciate it.

    Let us know what you do and how you like it – might help us make that decision ourselves. Good luck.


    The energy savings on a new furnace don’t justify replacement? Wow. My old house was 2400 sq ft and I had a 15 year old Lenox furnace that was in tip top condition, but not high efficiency. My new house is 3600 sq ft and with the 6 year old high efficiency furnace I pay about 2/3rds the heating cost of my previous, smaller house. Add in my new house has 2.5 floors above ground and twice the windows (less efficient windows too), I can’t believe you haven’t switched.

    We have a furnace that’s almost 90!!! And we haven’t switched either, also on the advise of our heating guy. As Dryfly states, it’s simple, it’s easy to maintain and we have radiators, not forced air. The efficiency value isn’t the same for hot water heating. Don’t compare newer built homes with forced air to old fashioned radiator heat and assume a new furnace is more efficient. It’s not. Our heating guy inspects our ancient metal monster in our basement every year and every year he says the same thing, that it will last another 100 yrs.

    #154025 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    Kelly Red wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    dryfly wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thank you both for your feedback, very much appreciated.

    I have had 3 companies look at, and price it – as well as get some better explanations from them.

    It is not that they cannot find an indoor coil to pair with the unit, it is that they cannot find one to pair that will give them an official “SEER Rating” that the electrical company will accept for the rebate. I get $600 back for 14 SEER or better Heat Pump, but because I am not replacing the furnace at the same time, I cannot get the highest SEER rating, and other calculations bring the official rating to below 14 even though it will likely operate better than that. I have a 3-speed, DC motor on my furnace, but because it isn’t new, I get the basic SEER rating, which is lower than the advertised rating. So they can get me a heat pump, just not necessarily one that qualifies for the $600 rebate.

    Also, while there are some ultra-high efficient, and solar ready units, cost grows exponentially with those features. Once we get above 14-16 SEER, cost gets pretty high… I have prices from Lennox, Carrier and Bryant. All prices are remarkably similar.

    The 2.5-ton Heat Pumps are looking like right around $6,000 installed. My $600 rebate brings me down to $5,400 but I do get half price electric rates on a metered program. A 3-ton 16 SEER, 2-stage A/C unit is looking like $5,400-$5,600 and a $100 rebate gets me to, lets call it $5,400 as well. About the same price as the Heat Pump. All 3 then have some 2.5-ton 14 SEER AC units for $3,800-$4,000 installed with the same $100 rebate. I think, over the course of 10 years, I am unlikely to see a cost savings of $1,400 between the higher level 2-stage AC or Heat Pump, as compared to the 14 SEER unit.

    Not to mention, for Carrier and Lennox at least (Bryant was unsure), my Ecobee3 Thermostat will not (or so I am told) make use of the 2-stage cooling, variable speed, etc. of the 2-stage unit and I would need a $300+ thermostat to pair with it. It also seems, to me at least, that this is pretty new technology and more parts to break and go wrong. They all offer 10 year warranty on parts, but only 1 year on labor.

    So maybe the best plan is to keep it simple and more cost effective to go with the 14 SEER, single stage A/C.


    Might be best. Go simple and look at a complete overhaul later if energy prices dictate. We are in a similar boat – sort of. Should have put in central air years ago just never did – have a window unit in the bedroom and one in the office. Big windows throughout the house with cross ventilation and fans. Works most days. The few it doesn’t we hole up in a bedroom. It’s what folks did 100 years ago.

    My furnace is ancient – like 60 years old – but well built and easy for me to maintain (I can clean and check myself easily). My HVAC guy just laughs when he sees it – love to sell me a new one but says the energy savings wouldn’t be enough to justify new. So I put it off waiting for it to fail and it never does. He has been waiting to close that sale for 20 years.

    When it does though I plan to go all in – new furnace and central air and all new duct work in basement – THAT is when I look really hard at heat pumps for the AC part. If all I am doing is modernizing to sell – I won’t go with the heat pump. Buyers won’t appreciate it.

    Let us know what you do and how you like it – might help us make that decision ourselves. Good luck.


    The energy savings on a new furnace don’t justify replacement? Wow. My old house was 2400 sq ft and I had a 15 year old Lenox furnace that was in tip top condition, but not high efficiency. My new house is 3600 sq ft and with the 6 year old high efficiency furnace I pay about 2/3rds the heating cost of my previous, smaller house. Add in my new house has 2.5 floors above ground and twice the windows (less efficient windows too), I can’t believe you haven’t switched.

    We have a furnace that’s almost 90!!! And we haven’t switched either, also on the advise of our heating guy. As Dryfly states, it’s simple, it’s easy to maintain and we have radiators, not forced air. The efficiency value isn’t the same for hot water heating. Don’t compare newer built homes with forced air to old fashioned radiator heat and assume a new furnace is more efficient. It’s not. Our heating guy inspects our ancient metal monster in our basement every year and every year he says the same thing, that it will last another 100 yrs.


    Bertoglait makes a good point but it isn’t the right one for us right now.

    If a person lives in a dusty old house – an old furnace that is easy to clean is better than a new high efficiency one that is not and has very expensive filtration. A high efficiency furnace that has plugged filters or is fouled isn’t high efficiency anymore. In fact they can be dangerous if the heat exchanger burns out due to fouling.

    We have two more rooms to redo – patch plaster and sand floors, lots of dust. Plus our pets are aging, they won’t live forever. We need to consider replacing our wood stove – maybe we go with gas on the next one. Point is in a couple years we might have a much cleaner house with a lot less dust, pet hair and ash and one where a high efficiency furnace makes a lot more sense. But not now.

    #154026 Quote
    georgegeorge
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    Wood burning stove????? :shock:

    #154027 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    george wrote:


    Wood burning stove????? :shock:


    :lol:

    The trot to the outhouse in January has to be getting old.

    #154028 Quote
    SkiUMahLawSkiUMahLaw
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thanks for the responses guys. All valid points. Honestly, I never thought planting a tree would be a big deal. If anything, I thought the neighbors might appreciate the tree. Shows what I know…

    As much as we want a fence, the $12k price tag (460 lineal feet) we have received from 2 different places is a bit steep right now. I cannot wait to see their reactions in a few years when we finally get around to installing that.

    Late to the party on the discussion but one note:

    AS the tree grows, if the branches and leaves start growing over the property line, the neighbors have the right to trim the tree back to the property line limits. So it could result in a deformed looking tree that will eventually fall because of the unequal weight distribution. They don’t need your permission to do that trimming. So be aware on that if they aren’t already in the ground.

    #154029 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    SkiUMahLaw wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thanks for the responses guys. All valid points. Honestly, I never thought planting a tree would be a big deal. If anything, I thought the neighbors might appreciate the tree. Shows what I know…

    As much as we want a fence, the $12k price tag (460 lineal feet) we have received from 2 different places is a bit steep right now. I cannot wait to see their reactions in a few years when we finally get around to installing that.

    Late to the party on the discussion but one note:

    AS the tree grows, if the branches and leaves start growing over the property line, the neighbors have the right to trim the tree back to the property line limits. So it could result in a deformed looking tree that will eventually fall because of the unequal weight distribution. They don’t need your permission to do that trimming. So be aware on that if they aren’t already in the ground.


    Yep, my neighbor does NOTHING to care for his yard. Grass over-grown, trees not trimmed, weeds all over the place. Me and the rest of my neighbors just detest them. Their trees hang onto my property and I been half tempted to go and trim every one of them (17 in all) right to the property line…but that is a lot of work and wouldn’t accomplish much except make me feel better for a short period of time.

    #154030 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    SkiUMahLaw wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thanks for the responses guys. All valid points. Honestly, I never thought planting a tree would be a big deal. If anything, I thought the neighbors might appreciate the tree. Shows what I know…

    As much as we want a fence, the $12k price tag (460 lineal feet) we have received from 2 different places is a bit steep right now. I cannot wait to see their reactions in a few years when we finally get around to installing that.

    Late to the party on the discussion but one note:

    AS the tree grows, if the branches and leaves start growing over the property line, the neighbors have the right to trim the tree back to the property line limits. So it could result in a deformed looking tree that will eventually fall because of the unequal weight distribution. They don’t need your permission to do that trimming. So be aware on that if they aren’t already in the ground.


    Yep, my neighbor does NOTHING to care for his yard. Grass over-grown, trees not trimmed, weeds all over the place. Me and the rest of my neighbors just detest them. Their trees hang onto my property and I been half tempted to go and trim every one of them (17 in all) right to the property line…but that is a lot of work and wouldn’t accomplish much except make me feel better for a short period of time.

    Do it. Please. For all of us.

    #154031 Quote
    KarlssonKarlsson
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    One of the fences in my backyard is a neighbor’s. It is old and rotten. Every time we get some wind (like this last weekend) a panel or post breaks. The direction the wind commonly moves through our houses means it is always in my yard.

    This time a post or two appears to have snapped just below the ground, meaning it is leaning at a pretty good angle toward my property. A few planks have fallen into my yard, I pick those up and nail them back on. I do this for his dogs, which are tiny and can walk right through when a plank is missing. Once in our yard they can take off into the alley through our picket fence. Our dogs are far too large to manage that.

    Just wondering how long I go before mentioning it. I get it has been less than a week, they very well may have something in the works. It is one of those situations where I don’t want to be annoyed, but I am.

    #154032 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    Karlsson wrote:

    Just wondering how long I go before mentioning it. I get it has been less than a week, they very well may have something in the works. It is one of those situations where I don’t want to be annoyed, but I am.

    Then I would say something, nicely. Such as, “You probably know, but just in case you don’t, your fence is damaged and I’ve fixed it a couple of times because I’m worried your cute little dogs could escape.”

    If you’re really feeling generous (or you actually like them), you could add something like, “If you need some recommendations on a fence company or a little help when you go to replace it, let me know.” Hint hint hint.

    If they respond in a douchebag manner then I wouldn’t touch that fence again. Or just put up your own….

    #154033 Quote
    KarlssonKarlsson
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    Cowgirl wrote:


    Karlsson wrote:

    Just wondering how long I go before mentioning it. I get it has been less than a week, they very well may have something in the works. It is one of those situations where I don’t want to be annoyed, but I am.

    Then I would say something, nicely. Such as, “You probably know, but just in case you don’t, your fence is damaged and I’ve fixed it a couple of times because I’m worried your cute little dogs could escape.”

    If you’re really feeling generous (or you actually like them), you could add something like, “If you need some recommendations on a fence company or a little help when you go to replace it, let me know.” Hint hint hint.

    If they respond in a douchebag manner then I wouldn’t touch that fence again. Or just put up your own….

    I do like them, they snowblow the section of sidewalk in front of our house when they notice it hasn’t been cleared. In MPLS this is huge. They also fixed the fence after the July storm last year, but just a portion of it obviously.

    They are good people. I’m just tired of having to “band-aid” the thing every time a stiff breeze rolls through.

    I’ll probably take your advice and be very cool about it. Pick your battles and all that jazz.

    #154034 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    george wrote:


    Wood burning stove????? :shock:


    Yup. This ain’t Edina. But understand it is just a big ‘space heater’ really – provides about half the heat the house requires on a winter day but keeps the central living spaces really warm. Very comfortable.

    Plus I can get quite a lot of free wood – just need to cut haul split and dry. Ya – just.

    It was a super efficient European stove when new – designed for California and Colorado emission laws of say 1985? Low soot – clean burn. Not clean enough for today’s standards though. I have been maintaining well but after almost 30 years it’s in need of replacement. I am getting too old to cut all that wood so thinking of getting gas replacement. Wife prefers wood though – but she isn’t the one doing the cutting. We will see.

    #154035 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    george wrote:


    Wood burning stove????? :shock:


    :lol:

    The trot to the outhouse in January has to be getting old.


    Don’t laugh – my in laws in Wisconsin have s ‘guest house’ with one. That’s a sure fire way to make sure guests don’t OVER stay.

    EDITED

    #154036 Quote
    gopheritallgopheritall
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thank you both for your feedback, very much appreciated.

    I have had 3 companies look at, and price it – as well as get some better explanations from them.

    It is not that they cannot find an indoor coil to pair with the unit, it is that they cannot find one to pair that will give them an official “SEER Rating” that the electrical company will accept for the rebate. I get $600 back for 14 SEER or better Heat Pump, but because I am not replacing the furnace at the same time, I cannot get the highest SEER rating, and other calculations bring the official rating to below 14 even though it will likely operate better than that. I have a 3-speed, DC motor on my furnace, but because it isn’t new, I get the basic SEER rating, which is lower than the advertised rating. So they can get me a heat pump, just not necessarily one that qualifies for the $600 rebate.

    Also, while there are some ultra-high efficient, and solar ready units, cost grows exponentially with those features. Once we get above 14-16 SEER, cost gets pretty high… I have prices from Lennox, Carrier and Bryant. All prices are remarkably similar.

    The 2.5-ton Heat Pumps are looking like right around $6,000 installed. My $600 rebate brings me down to $5,400 but I do get half price electric rates on a metered program. A 3-ton 16 SEER, 2-stage A/C unit is looking like $5,400-$5,600 and a $100 rebate gets me to, lets call it $5,400 as well. About the same price as the Heat Pump. All 3 then have some 2.5-ton 14 SEER AC units for $3,800-$4,000 installed with the same $100 rebate. I think, over the course of 10 years, I am unlikely to see a cost savings of $1,400 between the higher level 2-stage AC or Heat Pump, as compared to the 14 SEER unit.

    Not to mention, for Carrier and Lennox at least (Bryant was unsure), my Ecobee3 Thermostat will not (or so I am told) make use of the 2-stage cooling, variable speed, etc. of the 2-stage unit and I would need a $300+ thermostat to pair with it. It also seems, to me at least, that this is pretty new technology and more parts to break and go wrong. They all offer 10 year warranty on parts, but only 1 year on labor.

    So maybe the best plan is to keep it simple and more cost effective to go with the 14 SEER, single stage A/C.


    I am close to needing a new AC also. Anyone have feedback on the various brands? Lennox, Trane, Carrier, Bryant, etc. I don’t think I would do a heat pump but rather prefer reliability and low maintenance. I wish I was good at maintaining but I’m not so I kind of need it to just run.

    Alos, thermostats. I have a programmable that we hate. It keeps going to the schedule. I want it to, for the most part, stay on hold. I want to use the programming part as the exception. My wife wants the old dial one back.

    #154037 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    gopheritall wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    Thank you both for your feedback, very much appreciated.

    I have had 3 companies look at, and price it – as well as get some better explanations from them.

    It is not that they cannot find an indoor coil to pair with the unit, it is that they cannot find one to pair that will give them an official “SEER Rating” that the electrical company will accept for the rebate. I get $600 back for 14 SEER or better Heat Pump, but because I am not replacing the furnace at the same time, I cannot get the highest SEER rating, and other calculations bring the official rating to below 14 even though it will likely operate better than that. I have a 3-speed, DC motor on my furnace, but because it isn’t new, I get the basic SEER rating, which is lower than the advertised rating. So they can get me a heat pump, just not necessarily one that qualifies for the $600 rebate.

    Also, while there are some ultra-high efficient, and solar ready units, cost grows exponentially with those features. Once we get above 14-16 SEER, cost gets pretty high… I have prices from Lennox, Carrier and Bryant. All prices are remarkably similar.

    The 2.5-ton Heat Pumps are looking like right around $6,000 installed. My $600 rebate brings me down to $5,400 but I do get half price electric rates on a metered program. A 3-ton 16 SEER, 2-stage A/C unit is looking like $5,400-$5,600 and a $100 rebate gets me to, lets call it $5,400 as well. About the same price as the Heat Pump. All 3 then have some 2.5-ton 14 SEER AC units for $3,800-$4,000 installed with the same $100 rebate. I think, over the course of 10 years, I am unlikely to see a cost savings of $1,400 between the higher level 2-stage AC or Heat Pump, as compared to the 14 SEER unit.

    Not to mention, for Carrier and Lennox at least (Bryant was unsure), my Ecobee3 Thermostat will not (or so I am told) make use of the 2-stage cooling, variable speed, etc. of the 2-stage unit and I would need a $300+ thermostat to pair with it. It also seems, to me at least, that this is pretty new technology and more parts to break and go wrong. They all offer 10 year warranty on parts, but only 1 year on labor.

    So maybe the best plan is to keep it simple and more cost effective to go with the 14 SEER, single stage A/C.


    I am close to needing a new AC also. Anyone have feedback on the various brands? Lennox, Trane, Carrier, Bryant, etc. I don’t think I would do a heat pump but rather prefer reliability and low maintenance. I wish I was good at maintaining but I’m not so I kind of need it to just run.

    Alos, thermostats. I have a programmable that we hate. It keeps going to the schedule. I want it to, for the most part, stay on hold. I want to use the programming part as the exception. My wife wants the old dial one back.


    Per HVAC – those are all good brands. Add Daikin too (bought Goodman). All provide a range of products from modestly priced economy to high end whoa that’s expensive. My suggestion is find a dealer / installer you really like – one that offers great service and repairs. Ask what they sell then choose among those. In my town my favorite dealer / repairman / installer is an authorized and preferred Lennox dealer so that is what we would go with if changing out. Just makes things easier to keep running if you use what they service most.

    As for controls – yes they can be complicated. I have both simple on off control and programmable – they are run in parallel with modules in different parts of the house. Sounds complicated to use but really isn’t. I just turn off the programmable one and use the simple on-off most of the time. When I want programmable I do the reverse – turn off the simple on-off and turn on the programmable. In theory I could have both on at the same time and manage via different set points – the wiring and logic is such they ‘know’. But I rarely do that. Result is I have great flexibility in a really old house and am not having to reprogram all the time. Cost a couple hundred more to do that but makes life easy for us.

    Talk to an HVAC guy in detail. The good ones are wizards. If they seem disinterested – get a different one.

    #154038 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
    • Posts: 507
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    dryfly wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    george wrote:


    Wood burning stove????? :shock:


    :lol:

    The trot to the outhouse in January has to be getting old.


    Don’t laugh – my in laws in Wisconsin have s ‘guest house’ with one. That’s a sure fire way to make sure guests don’t OVER stay.

    EDITED


    Honestly, if I didn’t live in Fargo, I would absolutely burn wood. We have burned wood my entire live, my Dad used to haul a semi-load to EGF every fall and we would spend weekends cutting, splitting and stacking wood. 10 cords a winter.

    I don’t drive a semi, nor do I have a place to dump a full one to cut and split. Instead, I burn pellets.

    Wood is the cheapest form of heat…at least it was a couple years ago when researching. You get more BTUs per ton than any other source. If done right, it is safe and it keeps you in shape.

    #154039 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
    • Posts: 223
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    gopheritall wrote:

    I am close to needing a new AC also. Anyone have feedback on the various brands? Lennox, Trane, Carrier, Bryant, etc. I don’t think I would do a heat pump but rather prefer reliability and low maintenance. I wish I was good at maintaining but I’m not so I kind of need it to just run.

    Alos, thermostats. I have a programmable that we hate. It keeps going to the schedule. I want it to, for the most part, stay on hold. I want to use the programming part as the exception. My wife wants the old dial one back.

    All those companies I have quotes from (while, local installers of their products anyway), all VERY similar prices, within $300 of each other…

    All also said they offer 10 year parts warranty, 1 year labor – “Industry standard”. Unfortunately sometimes after 8 years or so if the compressor/condenser goes out, even though it is covered by parts, the labor cost may mean you are replacing before the parts warranty runs out. 2 companies told me that.

    I had a company who installs Daikin come over. Their price for a similar unit was $200 cheaper than the lowest price of the ones listed above, AND they offer a 12 year parts and 12 year labor warranty, essentially meaning this is your AC for 12 years. They also include a 6 year replacement guarantee, where if a major part fails in the first 6 years they don’t just replace the part, they replace the whole unit. I think they said the only requirement to keep the warranty, was every 24 months you needed to do an A/C tune-up/inspection.

    Very strongly leaning towards this installer and Daikin, unless someone has a good reason I wouldn’t want to go with them.

    #154040 Quote
    dryflydryfly
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    gopheritall wrote:

    I am close to needing a new AC also. Anyone have feedback on the various brands? Lennox, Trane, Carrier, Bryant, etc. I don’t think I would do a heat pump but rather prefer reliability and low maintenance. I wish I was good at maintaining but I’m not so I kind of need it to just run.

    Alos, thermostats. I have a programmable that we hate. It keeps going to the schedule. I want it to, for the most part, stay on hold. I want to use the programming part as the exception. My wife wants the old dial one back.

    All those companies I have quotes from (while, local installers of their products anyway), all VERY similar prices, within $300 of each other…

    All also said they offer 10 year parts warranty, 1 year labor – “Industry standard”. Unfortunately sometimes after 8 years or so if the compressor/condenser goes out, even though it is covered by parts, the labor cost may mean you are replacing before the parts warranty runs out. 2 companies told me that.

    I had a company who installs Daikin come over. Their price for a similar unit was $200 cheaper than the lowest price of the ones listed above, AND they offer a 12 year parts and 12 year labor warranty, essentially meaning this is your AC for 12 years. They also include a 6 year replacement guarantee, where if a major part fails in the first 6 years they don’t just replace the part, they replace the whole unit. I think they said the only requirement to keep the warranty, was every 24 months you needed to do an A/C tune-up/inspection.

    Very strongly leaning towards this installer and Daikin, unless someone has a good reason I wouldn’t want to go with them.


    I like Daikin people – have talked to some of their tech support in Texas. Seem like a really good group. Not saying the others aren’t okay – they are – but the Daikin folks are really bending over backward to help us. We want to buy AC units and have them customized for remote developing world solar installs so can’t use right off the shelf models. Daikin and Lennox have been the most helpful as we work through the kinks. Can’t say enough good about them.

    And you are right about the parts and labor – if the main compressor goes out the unit is pretty much shot. They are integral to the whole damn thing and very hard to rebuild in the field. So understand your warranty really well.

    The other thing is you should plan to have your unit cleaned and inspected EVERY year … unless you can do it without wrecking the fins on the heat exchanger. People think it’s easy and just spray or power wash. Not a good idea unless you know what you are doing. You can jam crap into the fins or flatten them and ruin the exchangers – make it so air can’t easily get through. Efficiency drops off and if bad enough will trigger shutdown.

    If you know what you are doing – great, go for it – otherwise get an annual service plan.

    #154041 Quote
    midevil bowievilmidevil bowievil
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    george wrote:


    I do agree that it’s unlikely you’ll (we’ll) get 17 years out of residential equipment in the future. Ten to 15 is more likely.

    I had to read that twice. Ten years? Weak engineering or just another scam?

    Our natural gas furnace is a HEIL installed in 1996. Our a/c is an old GE with a red General Electric emblem. How old is that? 30 years for sure.

    At our other house it’s all Williamson. Heat pump and oil burning furnace I believe was installed in about 1980. Works great.

    #154042 Quote
    g-manpuckg-manpuck
    • Posts: 397
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    midevil bowievil wrote:


    george wrote:


    I do agree that it’s unlikely you’ll (we’ll) get 17 years out of residential equipment in the future. Ten to 15 is more likely.

    I had to read that twice. Ten years? Weak engineering or just another scam?

    Our natural gas furnace is a HEIL installed in 1996. Our a/c is an old GE with a red General Electric emblem. How old is that? 30 years for sure.

    At our other house it’s all Williamson. Heat pump and oil burning furnace I believe was installed in about 1980. Works great.

    It’s just the pure numbers game of how many are manufactured. When thousands are pumped out of the manufacturer each week engineering takes a back seat. The funny thing is everyone thinks you need to stick with Brand X or Brand Y when both of them may very well be the same damn furnace but with a different name plate! I think there may be 4 different furnace manufacturers in North America and how many brands are there? For instance Carrier makes Payne, Armstrong, Bryant, Tempstar, and Heil. There is a huge difference in price between Carrier and Tempstar and the difference in reliability is probably negligible.

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