Portal Forum General Other Sports Hockey Officiating

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  • #131531 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    So I couldn’t find a topic for this and figured I would start one.

    I starting officiating youth hockey this year. My 2nd weekend just concluded and I have 13 games under my belt already. Anyway, lots of rule changes with USA Hockey and in true fashion, Minnesota Hockey is marching to the beat of their own drum and causing mass confusion.

    Anyway, its still surprising how many youth coaches still don’t know the rules or think youth hockey is officiated under the same rules as NHL.

    Maybe this will take off and maybe it won’t. Not mean to be a bitch session either. I know [mention]fightclub30[/mention] officiates as well or did.

    #165001 Quote
    KarlssonKarlsson
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    My dad has been officiating for over 50 years now, been a supervisor in district 10 for the last 20 or so. He always found it funny as well. Here and there a coach will say “Well shouldn’t we be preparing them for the pros?” Of course he’d respond with *long blank stare* “…They’re 9 years old.”

    #165002 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Karlsson wrote:


    My dad has been officiating for over 50 years now, been a supervisor in district 10 for the last 20 or so. He always found it funny as well. Here and there a coach will say “Well shouldn’t we be preparing them for the pros?” Of course he’d respond with *long blank stare* “…They’re 9 years old.”


    That’s a good one!

    My experience is that coaches only know NHL rules because they watch it on TV. For that reason I am glad they changed the rule about faceoff locations after a penalty. I still remember coaching my first Squirt game in 2017, another rule change year for USA Hockey. One of the big ones was no icing on a penalty kill. I screamed at the ref (last time I ever did it) and when he laughed and told me about the rule change, I felt stupid and it wasn’t long after that I said I would officiate when I am done coaching.

    #165003 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Districts add in their own fun too. Since MN Hockey changed the penalty times to a sliding scale (2 min. 1:30, 1 min) District 10 decided to have 17 min run time periods for 60 min games to keep the penalty time to 2 min. BUT the games change to stop time during a penalty. My first game running the clock I had a ref yell at me for stopping the clock in the 3rd period. He said the 3rd period was run time regardless of having a penalty on the clock or not.

    Yesterday I left the clock run during the 3rd period penalty only to have the refs yell at me to stop the clock. I’m still not sure which ref was right.

    Interestingly District 2 and 3 each have different rules. One used 12 min stop time with 1 min penalties and the other used 14 min stop time with 1:30 penalties.

    Whatever….

    #165004 Quote
    trixR4kidstrixR4kids
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    Used to ref, not much interest in ever doing it again honestly.

    #165005 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Districts add in their own fun too. Since MN Hockey changed the penalty times to a sliding scale (2 min. 1:30, 1 min) District 10 decided to have 17 min run time periods for 60 min games to keep the penalty time to 2 min. BUT the games change to stop time during a penalty. My first game running the clock I had a ref yell at me for stopping the clock in the 3rd period. He said the 3rd period was run time regardless of having a penalty on the clock or not.

    Yesterday I left the clock run during the 3rd period penalty only to have the refs yell at me to stop the clock. I’m still not sure which ref was right.

    Interestingly District 2 and 3 each have different rules. One used 12 min stop time with 1 min penalties and the other used 14 min stop time with 1:30 penalties.

    Whatever….


    Yeah I had a conversation with a USA Hockey officiating director today and I am not sure the rest of the country is pleased with Minnesota Hockey. To further complicate it, MN Hockey gives description to each District, League or Tournament.

    The problem with going to 17 minute periods is that the associations will end up paying more for refereeing than planned. There is too much individual game discretion as well.

    #165006 Quote
    skiier32skiier32
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    [mention]MNGophers29[/mention] welcome to the club! I am entering my second year officiating in Districts 6 and 8. I also joined the high school ranks this year as a linesman for varsity and ref at jv games and both boys and girls. There are different rules for each and as a ref you have to slow down and think what level and where are you officiating. Then add in summer reffing and its a whole other world. Each tourney has its own rules. Good luck this year and have fun!!

    #165007 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    So I couldn’t find a topic for this and figured I would start one.

    I starting officiating youth hockey this year. My 2nd weekend just concluded and I have 13 games under my belt already. Anyway, lots of rule changes with USA Hockey and in true fashion, Minnesota Hockey is marching to the beat of their own drum and causing mass confusion.

    Anyway, its still surprising how many youth coaches still don’t know the rules or think youth hockey is officiated under the same rules as NHL.

    Maybe this will take off and maybe it won’t. Not mean to be a bitch session either.

    Welcome to the fraternity! There will be nights you wonder why the heck you do it, but there will be plenty of nights where you think it’s a pretty fun thing to do. You will make mistakes, I made quite a few. In fact making mistakes is one of the reasons I got to the places I did; learn from it and never make that mistake again. Making a mistake will be burned into your brain – I’ll never do that again – versus just knowing the rules and never having experienced it.

    All the obscure crap in the rulebook… be around the game long enough and it’ll eventually come up. Some coach found it, and is going to try and work around it. A team takes a timeout to warm up a replacement goalie, there is a rule dictating how many pucks they can use. A coach refuses to put his players on the ice to dispute a call, there is a specific amount of time to physically put on the clock and count down before you can penalize them and then again before a forfeit. My suggestion is early on, keep a copy of the rule book by the toilet and read a small section every time you use the facilities.

    I am continually amazed at how many players and coaches don’t understand the rules. In NCAA hockey every year, people need to be reminded you cannot hand pass in the D-zone. “Is that new?” Nope, its been that way for at least 5 years now, if not more. If there are no penalties on the board, and you have coincidentals, we go 4-on-4 (different from most leagues, but has been that way a long time).

    All the non-sense with USA Hockey makes me so glad I quite youth several seasons ago. It is too much to keep track of and work through. No thanks.

    I have a “wall” (a few shelves) of pucks and a stack of crests from the different leagues and levels I worked. You collect a lot of stuff over the years. A lot of the leagues I worked for no longer exist; Central Hockey League, Minnesota Junior Hockey League, Great Lakes Junior Hockey League, Central States Hockey League… the freaking WCHA :( :( Save some mementos, it is fun to look back on. Back when people came to our house it was a conversation piece; New Mexico had a hockey team? How did you find that puck? What the heck is a Swamp Rabbit? and then war stories begin.

    If you want pointers, questions, etc. Feel free to PM me or message here, I check in fairly often. However if the question is about USA Hockey current rules, I am not a good resource. Been out of touch with USA for awhile, haha.

    A couple things I wish I had known/realized earlier than I did:

    – No such things as calling a perfect game.

    – If both coaches are upset you probably did your job.

    – If you “call the rulebook” you won’t make it very far. A trip isn’t always a trip. You need a “feel for the game” despite what they try to tell you early on.

    – Don’t ever go looking for penalties. Call what jumps off the page.

    – If you see something and your brain says “Holy #$%&!!” – its probably a major. My favorite supervisor I ever had, Scott Brand (great guy), said “Major penalties are like pornography… I can’t describe it, but I know it when I see it”. So don’t over think it.

    #165008 Quote
    HockeyBumHockeyBum
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    I’ll be following this thread. I nearly pulled the trigger and registered for an officiating seminar a few months ago, but got cold feet at the last minute. My daughter is still playing (15U), so I didn’t think I’d have enough time for officiating this year with her heavy schedule.

    I did “referee” one of her scrimmages a few weeks back. The game was fast, and a lot rougher than I was prepared for (technically girls can’t body-check, but pretty much everyone does it to some degree). Since it was just a scrimmage, my goal going into it was not to call any penalties unless it was something egregious. I ended up calling 4. One thing I need to do better on next time is putting my arm up for a delayed penalty and wait until the offending team gains control of the puck. My first instinct was to blow the whistle as soon as the infraction occured.

    #165009 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    HockeyBum wrote:


    I’ll be following this thread. I nearly pulled the trigger and registered for an officiating seminar a few months ago, but got cold feet at the last minute. My daughter is still playing (15U), so I didn’t think I’d have enough time for officiating this year with her heavy schedule.

    I did “referee” one of her scrimmages a few weeks back. The game was fast, and a lot rougher than I was prepared for (technically girls can’t body-check, but pretty much everyone does it to some degree). Since it was just a scrimmage, my goal going into it was not to call any penalties unless it was something egregious. I ended up calling 4. One thing I need to do better on next time is putting my arm up for a delayed penalty and wait until the offending team gains control of the puck. My first instinct was to blow the whistle as soon as the infraction occured.


    So after 2 weeks of doing it, here is what I wound tell you.

    Sign up and ease into it when you don’t have the availability. You only need 2-3 games a weekend to start. My first weekend I had 6, second weekend I had 7. Because my kid doesn’t travel the month of November, I put what I actually had for free time. I shouldn’t have and several people told me I could not sacrifice family at this point for it.

    So, this month I will end up with 17 games in 3 weekends. Next month I should have less than 10.

    #165010 Quote
    skiier32skiier32
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    I did way more games this weekend than I probably should have. But I never went in to the ref room and complained it was too early or the level I was about to ref was below me or even that the players should just quit because its a U15b game and why are your parents even paying for you to play. I was so disgusted by the attitude displayed by my partner that I went home and blocked him so I never have to ref with him again. If you don’t want the games don’t accept them.

    [mention]MNGophers29[/mention] family time is important and take what your schedule will allow and never feel bad about it. Keep learning!! I see and learn something new almost every game.

    I love that my oldest loves to ref. He told me to get him as many games as I could for him. Fri-Sunday he had around 20. He works hard and does a great job, I am one proud dad!

    #165011 Quote
    5 O.T.5 O.T.
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    Meanwhile, in Massachusetts:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6aX6pdmmb4

    #165012 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Refs are very much appreciated…by most of us.

    I see D10 refs are blacked out for scrimmages almost every weekend. As a scrimmage coordinator, I definitely appreciate having them available.

    Officials not available for scrimmages on these dates:

    12/4/2021

    12/5/2021

    12/11/2021

    12/12/2021

    12/18/2021

    12/19/2021

    1/8/2022

    1/9/2022

    1/15/2022

    1/16/2022

    1/22/2022

    1/23/2022

    1/29/2022

    1/30/2022

    2/12/2022

    2/19/2022

    2/20/2022

    2/26/2022

    2/27/2022

    #165013 Quote
    HockeyBumHockeyBum
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    skiier32 wrote:


    … or even that the players should just quit because its a U15b game and why are your parents even paying for you to play. I was so disgusted by the attitude displayed by my partner that I went home and blocked him so I never have to ref with him again. If you don’t want the games don’t accept them.

    As a parent of a daughter on a horrible U15B team, THANK YOU skiier32 for having the right attitude! If a referee is that jaded, then maybe it’s time to find something else to do with your time.

    On a side note, the dad of a girl on my daughter’s team got thrown out by the referee yesterday for repeatedly making loud comments about the officiating. It was embarrassing, and it makes our team (and hockey association) look terrible. To make things worse, he didn’t even leave the rink. He just moved to the other side of the arena where the ref couldn’t see him.

    #165014 Quote
    skiier32skiier32
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    HockeyBum wrote:


    skiier32 wrote:


    … or even that the players should just quit because its a U15b game and why are your parents even paying for you to play. I was so disgusted by the attitude displayed by my partner that I went home and blocked him so I never have to ref with him again. If you don’t want the games don’t accept them.

    As a parent of a daughter on a horrible U15B team, THANK YOU skiier32 for having the right attitude! If a referee is that jaded, then maybe it’s time to find something else to do with your time.

    On a side note, the dad of a girl on my daughter’s team got thrown out by the referee yesterday for repeatedly making loud comments about the officiating. It was embarrassing, and it makes our team (and hockey association) look terrible. To make things worse, he didn’t even leave the rink. He just moved to the other side of the arena where the ref couldn’t see him.


    I am pretty sure I was reffing that game. Breamar East, Woodbury vs OMG? I was not the one who tossed him, I actually did not hear him at all. I have a great ability to ignore parents. Coaches on the other hand i can hear. But I did see that he only did move to the other end and stood back by the table. Trust me when I say that all associations have that 1 or 100 parents that are loud and obnoxious towards the refs so don’t worry about him. I actually also had your game on Friday too. Your team did great and played well. It was fun to officiate them. What number was your kid?

    #165015 Quote
    HockeyBumHockeyBum
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    skiier32 wrote:


    HockeyBum wrote:


    skiier32 wrote:


    … or even that the players should just quit because its a U15b game and why are your parents even paying for you to play. I was so disgusted by the attitude displayed by my partner that I went home and blocked him so I never have to ref with him again. If you don’t want the games don’t accept them.

    As a parent of a daughter on a horrible U15B team, THANK YOU skiier32 for having the right attitude! If a referee is that jaded, then maybe it’s time to find something else to do with your time.

    On a side note, the dad of a girl on my daughter’s team got thrown out by the referee yesterday for repeatedly making loud comments about the officiating. It was embarrassing, and it makes our team (and hockey association) look terrible. To make things worse, he didn’t even leave the rink. He just moved to the other side of the arena where the ref couldn’t see him.


    I am pretty sure I was reffing that game. Breamar East, Woodbury vs OMG? I was not the one who tossed him, I actually did not hear him at all. I have a great ability to ignore parents. Coaches on the other hand i can hear. But I did see that he only did move to the other end and stood back by the table. Trust me when I say that all associations have that 1 or 100 parents that are loud and obnoxious towards the refs so don’t worry about him. I actually also had your game on Friday too. Your team did great and played well. It was fun to officiate them. What number was your kid?

    Yep. PM’d you.

    #165022 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Well, last night’s game for me is why there is a shortage of refs in all sports, including hockey. A parent in the stands from an unnamed MN town, betrayed me because of a call my partner made. I told him that it was enough out of him. After the period ended he started swearing and taunting us, I tossed him from the game. Immediately upon doing so, I was given the middle finger by the lady standing next to him. Tossed her too. Then he walks down the bleachers and continues to yell at us holding onto the top of the glass. The game started at 8pm so I imagine they were liquored up..

    We will probably have 5-6 games cancelled this weekend due to a referee shortage. My son’s game today turned into a “scrimmage” because there is no one available.

    #165023 Quote
    OrionOrion
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Well, last night’s game for me is why there is a shortage of refs in all sports, including hockey. A parent in the stands from an unnamed MN town, betrayed me because of a call my partner made. I told him that it was enough out of him. After the period ended he started swearing and taunting us, I tossed him from the game. Immediately upon doing so, I was given the middle finger by the lady standing next to him. Tossed her too. Then he walks down the bleachers and continues to yell at us holding onto the top of the glass. The game started at 8pm so I imagine they were liquored up..

    We will probably have 5-6 games cancelled this weekend due to a referee shortage. My son’s game today turned into a “scrimmage” because there is no one available.


    I’m sorry you had to deal with this. This type of behavior is now all too common

    #165024 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Orion wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Well, last night’s game for me is why there is a shortage of refs in all sports, including hockey. A parent in the stands from an unnamed MN town, betrayed me because of a call my partner made. I told him that it was enough out of him. After the period ended he started swearing and taunting us, I tossed him from the game. Immediately upon doing so, I was given the middle finger by the lady standing next to him. Tossed her too. Then he walks down the bleachers and continues to yell at us holding onto the top of the glass. The game started at 8pm so I imagine they were liquored up..

    We will probably have 5-6 games cancelled this weekend due to a referee shortage. My son’s game today turned into a “scrimmage” because there is no one available.


    I’m sorry you had to deal with this. This type of behavior is now all too common


    It’s fine, I can handle it. Young, new refs can’t and won’t, thus why we have a shortage.

    The biggest thing that feels like has changed is that teams want every single ticky tack penalty committed against them but heaven forbid you call a blatant penalty against their team and coaches, players and parents just go nuts. Not knowing the new rules for USA Hockey this year is also another thing that I still hear a lot of and try to explain to players and coaches.

    I tried explaining an interference penalty to a kid last night and he said he didn’t want to hear it from me….because he coach said the same thing the period before.

    #165025 Quote
    HockeyBumHockeyBum
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Well, last night’s game for me is why there is a shortage of refs in all sports, including hockey. A parent in the stands from an unnamed MN town, betrayed me because of a call my partner made. I told him that it was enough out of him. After the period ended he started swearing and taunting us, I tossed him from the game. Immediately upon doing so, I was given the middle finger by the lady standing next to him. Tossed her too. Then he walks down the bleachers and continues to yell at us holding onto the top of the glass. The game started at 8pm so I imagine they were liquored up.

    If I do decide to start reffing next year, I think I want to exclusively work girls games. I’ve watched a few Pee Wee games this year, and the abusive behavior towards refs at boys games is on a completely different level.

    #165026 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    HockeyBum wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Well, last night’s game for me is why there is a shortage of refs in all sports, including hockey. A parent in the stands from an unnamed MN town, betrayed me because of a call my partner made. I told him that it was enough out of him. After the period ended he started swearing and taunting us, I tossed him from the game. Immediately upon doing so, I was given the middle finger by the lady standing next to him. Tossed her too. Then he walks down the bleachers and continues to yell at us holding onto the top of the glass. The game started at 8pm so I imagine they were liquored up.

    If I do decide to start reffing next year, I think I want to exclusively work girls games. I’ve watched a few Pee Wee games this year, and the abusive behavior towards refs at boys games is on a completely different level.


    Based on my experience this year, I agree with you. However my 12 year old son did a 12/14U girls game last season and got a middle finger from a parent at the end of then. There is a much more to the story where he was in the right, but I think crazy people don’t discriminate between ages or skill levels…

    #165027 Quote
    CowgirlCowgirl
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    Sounds like they should just stop letting parents attend games. I feel for you guys. That is sad, embarrassing and downright disgusting from the adults who should be setting examples for the younger generations. At least have a zero tolerance policy – one infraction and you’re banned from games the rest of the season. Maybe that would help them rethink being a moron.

    #165028 Quote
    IdontknowIdontknow
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    HockeyBum wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Well, last night’s game for me is why there is a shortage of refs in all sports, including hockey. A parent in the stands from an unnamed MN town, betrayed me because of a call my partner made. I told him that it was enough out of him. After the period ended he started swearing and taunting us, I tossed him from the game. Immediately upon doing so, I was given the middle finger by the lady standing next to him. Tossed her too. Then he walks down the bleachers and continues to yell at us holding onto the top of the glass. The game started at 8pm so I imagine they were liquored up.

    If I do decide to start reffing next year, I think I want to exclusively work girls games. I’ve watched a few Pee Wee games this year, and the abusive behavior towards refs at boys games is on a completely different level.

    I think a new thing needs to happen where if refs are getting abused they are allowed to just leave and then everyone left can deal with the game however they want.

    My son is going to start soccer reffing this coming summer and I’m wondering how that will go.

    #165029 Quote
    GoldenRubeGoldenRube
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    I have 4 hockey grandkids ranging from first year mite to Pee Wee. I’m retired and go to as many games as I can and there always seems to be the one parent that is “that guy” At a girls u10 game 2 weeks ago one parent on the opposing team was so upset and so loud that I thought the veins were going to pop in his neck. Another parent from his team asked him to settle down and his response was “you want to go”? The other parent didn’t respond but I noticed a police officer standing at the top shortly after keeping an eye on things. One, how sad is we have to involve police because someone wants to fight at a U10 girls’ game and two I feel so sorry for that parent’s kid because his tirade was focused more on the players than the ref.

    #165030 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Idontknow wrote:


    HockeyBum wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Well, last night’s game for me is why there is a shortage of refs in all sports, including hockey. A parent in the stands from an unnamed MN town, betrayed me because of a call my partner made. I told him that it was enough out of him. After the period ended he started swearing and taunting us, I tossed him from the game. Immediately upon doing so, I was given the middle finger by the lady standing next to him. Tossed her too. Then he walks down the bleachers and continues to yell at us holding onto the top of the glass. The game started at 8pm so I imagine they were liquored up.

    If I do decide to start reffing next year, I think I want to exclusively work girls games. I’ve watched a few Pee Wee games this year, and the abusive behavior towards refs at boys games is on a completely different level.

    I think a new thing needs to happen where if refs are getting abused they are allowed to just leave and then everyone left can deal with the game however they want.

    My son is going to start soccer reffing this coming summer and I’m wondering how that will go.

    It isn’t much different. That said I’ve actually seen coaches be kicked out of soccer games (and they have to miss the next game as well) but never a hockey coach.

    Last week we had a district hockey game and the opposing goalie covered the puck with his glove while our whole team changed lines. Since there was no pressure on the goalie the refs didn’t blow the whistle (appropriately). He covered the puck for a good 5-10 seconds then Panicked when our fresh players rushed in on him. He threw the puck out right to our player and immediately created a scoring chance.

    The opposing parents were IRATE. And very nasty to the refs.

    Before the next play the ref skates over to the goalie and was clearly explaining that they can’t blow the whistle and he has to get rid of the puck when there is no pressure. The opposing parents got even more mad and momma yells “DON’T YOU SAY A WORD TO HIM.”

    A lot of venom for refs doing their job well.

    #165031 Quote
    skiier32skiier32
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Well, last night’s game for me is why there is a shortage of refs in all sports, including hockey. A parent in the stands from an unnamed MN town, betrayed me because of a call my partner made. I told him that it was enough out of him. After the period ended he started swearing and taunting us, I tossed him from the game. Immediately upon doing so, I was given the middle finger by the lady standing next to him. Tossed her too. Then he walks down the bleachers and continues to yell at us holding onto the top of the glass. The game started at 8pm so I imagine they were liquored up..

    We will probably have 5-6 games cancelled this weekend due to a referee shortage. My son’s game today turned into a “scrimmage” because there is no one available.


    I actually tossed a coach on Friday in a Squirt B game. He was obnoxious. He wanted everything called for him and nothing against. If we did we would not have even finished the 2nd period. He went crazy when we would not call a penalty on an opposing player who basically stood his ground from a charging player. Said charging player ended up on the ground hurt. How is that the fault of the player standing his ground. For the head coaches parting shot he said I would hear from the district. Then the assistant coaches forfeited after we tossed ther HC. Great lesson to teach your kids. Hope he enjoys his vacation and disciplinary hearing.

    #165032 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    Oof. It is too often called a penalty on the larger player when two kids collide and the smaller kid ends up on the ice. My kids are both peewees and that seems to be the age with the largest size discrepancies. The big strong kids end up in the box too often for not falling when hit by smaller kids who do.

    #165033 Quote
    skiier32skiier32
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    Bertogliat wrote:


    Oof. It is too often called a penalty on the larger player when two kids collide and the smaller kid ends up on the ice. My kids are both peewees and that seems to be the age with the largest size discrepancies. The big strong kids end up in the box too often for not falling when hit by smaller kids who do.


    I had a game this weekend, peewee B1, where there was a kid that was at least 6 foot tall and had a full on mustache. He was a good player and never over used his size. He will be a force (or could be) in bantams next year.

    #165034 Quote
    GoldenRubeGoldenRube
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    [/quote]

    I had a game this weekend, peewee B1, where there was a kid that was at least 6 foot tall and had a full on mustache. He was a good player and never over used his size. He will be a force (or could be) in bantams next year.

    [/quote]

    Sounds like someone was trying to get some game experience in before the GPL game.

    #165035 Quote
    BertogliatBertogliat
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    skiier32 wrote:


    Bertogliat wrote:


    Oof. It is too often called a penalty on the larger player when two kids collide and the smaller kid ends up on the ice. My kids are both peewees and that seems to be the age with the largest size discrepancies. The big strong kids end up in the box too often for not falling when hit by smaller kids who do.


    I had a game this weekend, peewee B1, where there was a kid that was at least 6 foot tall and had a full on mustache. He was a good player and never over used his size. He will be a force (or could be) in bantams next year.

    My peewee C has a 6 foot kid on his team. His dad said at the start of the season he was 5’10” but I look him straight in the eye now so he’s already grown another 2″. He is a gentle giant but sometimes an opposing player makes the mistake of trying to play the body and he pays the price. Note: we do go up against teams with girls and the girls NEVER make that mistake. I don’t think I have ever seen a girl get smoked in a collision with a big boy.

    My peewee A has teammates with baby fuzzy mustaches. None are 6 feet but some are just big and strong. One of them is a 2010. I can’t imagine him an a 2010 AAA team. Some of these kids are already 150-170 pounds at 11-12 years old. Testosterone is a game changer.

    #165036 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    You guys are making me sure glad I quit USA Hockey 6-7 years ago. I see it hasn’t changed.

    The most disrespect I ever received at any level of hockey was at the younger youth levels.

    Not just the coaches berating you, the yelling at their players “Don’t worry about it Charlie, that was a great hockey play, you keep doing that, its not a penalty. Good Hit!” Yeah, lambasting a guy into the end wall from 8′ away, that won’t get called next time… Or after an argument “Well boys, we’re going to have to beat the other team AND the refs tonight with these clowns.”

    A lot of Parents and too many coaches at that level hardly know the year to year rule changes, and have no idea what to expect from officiating. You could have two D-1 officials out there on a Wednesday night and they would scream their heads off at them for calling too much, then for not calling enough. Then telling them that clearly, this PeeWee B game was too fast for them and way over their head.

    I learned youth teams don’t lose games anymore, they just win or they got screwed over by the refs.

    Guess what, sometimes calls don’t go your way. Sometimes that cop isn’t going to give you a warning for speeding. Sometimes your boss is going to pick the new guy for the promotion instead of you. That’s life. But why would we want to start teaching young men that lesson when it’s easier to just scream and the refs and blame someone else for our shortcomings?

    There are coaches who think “the squeaky wheel gets the grease” and if they scream and yell and whine enough, they will get call to keep them quiet/happy. Or that if they yell enough the officials will be scared to call a penalty on them. Unfortunately this sometimes works on young, inexperienced refs — who happen to be a lot of the officials at PeeWee and below games.

    Here is what I can offer as some advice;

    Remember, you hold the Ace Card (kicking out the coach) and you should try not to use it unless absolutely necessary. You don’t HAVE to interact with them, it is a privilege, not a right not matter how many times they scream “you HAVE to come and talk to me” — no, no you don’t. If a conversation is clearly not going to be productive, or most likely going to result in someone getting kicked out, dont go over there.

    Give it a cooling off period. One of my favorite policies we had in the WCHA was a mandatory cooling off period — you weren’t to go to either bench at the end of a period. If they wanted to talk it had to be before the start of the next period (after zamboni). I carried that to all other levels I worked, even if no zamboni, you had to talk to your team first, then I would come talk to you.

    Recognize the situation; if a coach has one foot on the bench and one foot up on the dasher, I am not going over there. Its demeaning and disrespectful, and he only wants to scream down at me, show me up, and spit in my face. If they are like that and I do need to go over there (IE Weird penalty situation or something) then I will go to the other end of the bench and make them step down and walk to me. If they aren’t willing to do that, than it isn’t that important to them and just tell a captain and skate away.

    I am not saying anyone has done this, but make sure to avoid arguments. Hear the coach’s argument, say your side or your point. If you aren’t allowed to get a word in – skate away. If they disagree, just acknowledge you hear what they are saying and skate away. Don’t reiterate your point or argue. Communication is a 2-way street and too many youth coaches don’t feel like listening, that’s fine, but we don’t have to listen to them either then.

    Knowing when to skate away, or just avoiding the situation altogether will help in reducing those types of situations. However, inevitably, there will still come times and places where you need to lay that ace card down and send them to the locker room.

    #165037 Quote
    ArmadilloArmadillo
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    skiier32 wrote:


    HockeyBum wrote:


    skiier32 wrote:


    … or even that the players should just quit because its a U15b game and why are your parents even paying for you to play. I was so disgusted by the attitude displayed by my partner that I went home and blocked him so I never have to ref with him again. If you don’t want the games don’t accept them.

    As a parent of a daughter on a horrible U15B team, THANK YOU skiier32 for having the right attitude! If a referee is that jaded, then maybe it’s time to find something else to do with your time.

    On a side note, the dad of a girl on my daughter’s team got thrown out by the referee yesterday for repeatedly making loud comments about the officiating. It was embarrassing, and it makes our team (and hockey association) look terrible. To make things worse, he didn’t even leave the rink. He just moved to the other side of the arena where the ref couldn’t see him.


    I am pretty sure I was reffing that game. Breamar East, Woodbury vs OMG? I was not the one who tossed him, I actually did not hear him at all. I have a great ability to ignore parents. Coaches on the other hand i can hear. But I did see that he only did move to the other end and stood back by the table. Trust me when I say that all associations have that 1 or 100 parents that are loud and obnoxious towards the refs so don’t worry about him. I actually also had your game on Friday too. Your team did great and played well. It was fun to officiate them. What number was your kid?

    I didn’t see this until now, but this is hilarious. My daughter is on that Osseo-Maple Grove team, and all the parents could talk about after the game was the guy who got 86ed. If it helps, HockeyBum: we didn’t hold him against the rest of you.

    #165038 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    You guys are making me sure glad I quit USA Hockey 6-7 years ago. I see it hasn’t changed.

    The most disrespect I ever received at any level of hockey was at the younger youth levels.

    Not just the coaches berating you, the yelling at their players “Don’t worry about it Charlie, that was a great hockey play, you keep doing that, its not a penalty. Good Hit!” Yeah, lambasting a guy into the end wall from 8′ away, that won’t get called next time… Or after an argument “Well boys, we’re going to have to beat the other team AND the refs tonight with these clowns.”

    A lot of Parents and too many coaches at that level hardly know the year to year rule changes, and have no idea what to expect from officiating. You could have two D-1 officials out there on a Wednesday night and they would scream their heads off at them for calling too much, then for not calling enough. Then telling them that clearly, this PeeWee B game was too fast for them and way over their head.

    I learned youth teams don’t lose games anymore, they just win or they got screwed over by the refs.

    Guess what, sometimes calls don’t go your way. Sometimes that cop isn’t going to give you a warning for speeding. Sometimes your boss is going to pick the new guy for the promotion instead of you. That’s life. But why would we want to start teaching young men that lesson when it’s easier to just scream and the refs and blame someone else for our shortcomings?

    There are coaches who think “the squeaky wheel gets the grease” and if they scream and yell and whine enough, they will get call to keep them quiet/happy. Or that if they yell enough the officials will be scared to call a penalty on them. Unfortunately this sometimes works on young, inexperienced refs — who happen to be a lot of the officials at PeeWee and below games.

    Here is what I can offer as some advice;

    Remember, you hold the Ace Card (kicking out the coach) and you should try not to use it unless absolutely necessary. You don’t HAVE to interact with them, it is a privilege, not a right not matter how many times they scream “you HAVE to come and talk to me” — no, no you don’t. If a conversation is clearly not going to be productive, or most likely going to result in someone getting kicked out, dont go over there.

    Give it a cooling off period. One of my favorite policies we had in the WCHA was a mandatory cooling off period — you weren’t to go to either bench at the end of a period. If they wanted to talk it had to be before the start of the next period (after zamboni). I carried that to all other levels I worked, even if no zamboni, you had to talk to your team first, then I would come talk to you.

    Recognize the situation; if a coach has one foot on the bench and one foot up on the dasher, I am not going over there. Its demeaning and disrespectful, and he only wants to scream down at me, show me up, and spit in my face. If they are like that and I do need to go over there (IE Weird penalty situation or something) then I will go to the other end of the bench and make them step down and walk to me. If they aren’t willing to do that, than it isn’t that important to them and just tell a captain and skate away.

    I am not saying anyone has done this, but make sure to avoid arguments. Hear the coach’s argument, say your side or your point. If you aren’t allowed to get a word in – skate away. If they disagree, just acknowledge you hear what they are saying and skate away. Don’t reiterate your point or argue. Communication is a 2-way street and too many youth coaches don’t feel like listening, that’s fine, but we don’t have to listen to them either then.

    Knowing when to skate away, or just avoiding the situation altogether will help in reducing those types of situations. However, inevitably, there will still come times and places where you need to lay that ace card down and send them to the locker room.


    Thank you for this. I appreciate the insight. I am a Level 1, first year ref, but I am 43 years old, have coached hockey and baseball in the Fargo area for 8 years, before that in EGF when I was in HS. I have umpired softball and baseball and some of you know what I do for a living, but I de-escalate intense situations for a living.

    When I was coaching, I said I would ref when I was done. I gave myself 1 season off. This year, massive shortage and I sign up hoping to lead by example, it doesn’t work. Fortunately I have some very good connections and a close group of friends I call for all sorts of advice.

    Today, I was really doubting myself as an official after the weekend I had. More specifically, the entire Bantam level of hockey. Some games I feel I call to much, others I feel I didn’t call enough. Haven’t had a single good game at that level.

    Called a buddy who has officiated for a long time. He said not only was it the age and the young coaches, but for the the specific teams I had issues with this weekend, it was the constant travel to play teams that won’t travel to play them. I get it.

    Anyway, I appreciate the feedback, I take it all to heart and I want to be good. I want to be a mentor and help people understand tue game better, but unfortunately in the moment, no one wants to hear anything…

    #165039 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    Thank you for this. I appreciate the insight. I am a Level 1, first year ref, but I am 43 years old, have coached hockey and baseball in the Fargo area for 8 years, before that in EGF when I was in HS. I have umpired softball and baseball and some of you know what I do for a living, but I de-escalate intense situations for a living.

    When I was coaching, I said I would ref when I was done. I gave myself 1 season off. This year, massive shortage and I sign up hoping to lead by example, it doesn’t work. Fortunately I have some very good connections and a close group of friends I call for all sorts of advice.

    Today, I was really doubting myself as an official after the weekend I had. More specifically, the entire Bantam level of hockey. Some games I feel I call to much, others I feel I didn’t call enough. Haven’t had a single good game at that level.

    Called a buddy who has officiated for a long time. He said not only was it the age and the young coaches, but for the the specific teams I had issues with this weekend, it was the constant travel to play teams that won’t travel to play them. I get it.

    Anyway, I appreciate the feedback, I take it all to heart and I want to be good. I want to be a mentor and help people understand tue game better, but unfortunately in the moment, no one wants to hear anything…

    It’s funny you mention that… On my resume I would list my higher level officiating and for experience said “Showcased my ability to follow guidelines and make quick, usually unpopular, decisions in a fast-paced and often hostile environment.” It was usually a talking point, and good for an opening conversation in the interview. It also helped weed out some places who were “We need you 100% committed here and not working a side job like this.” yeah, no thanks, I don’t need that level of requirement in my life.

    We all have off games. I had a game a few weeks ago I just couldn’t felt like I had a puck magnet on me and could read play and anticipate to get out of the way. It is going to happen, we just try to limit them as best we can. NHL officials have bad games, we have all seen some. My best experience comes from mistakes I have made, so the best I can do is offer up what I learned from my mistakes and hope others can benefit from it.

    Jumping to the next level is always difficult, and you’ll question your calls and your ability. But you’re learning an assessing yourself at the same time. Each game you’ll get a little more comfortable. Pretty soon that level is your standard. Some games you have to call a lot to keep it from going off the rails, some games you can let the players figure it out and loosen the standard a bit. Let them dictate. Coaches will also notice when it is an official they haven’t seen before, assume you are new, and try to take advantage of it. Don’t let them get to you. If they ain’t fishing, they ain’t trying.

    Especially at a new level, let your first penalty be an obvious penalty or an injury potential. If that never happens (doubtful), then don’t call anything. Nothing good ever comes from looking for penalties. Take the stuff that jumps out at you, don’t start looking for something.

    There are coaches and players where it is like talking to a box of rocks. Zero personality and don’t want to listen to a word you have to say. Fine, just let them be. Later in the game when the D takes another lazy penalty doing the same thing, well you tried to talk to him about it but he didn’t want to listen. There are some players who are great “Ref, why is that a penalty?” And actually want to listen a learn. Give those players you’re time and effort, just ignore the others. Even though my wife hates it, my selective hearing is an awesome tool when officiating.

    #165040 Quote
    midevil bowievilmidevil bowievil
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    I didn’t know a PW could ref a PW game. ??? So we had a 6th grade PWA reffing his buddies PWB game. That’s weird to me.

    #165041 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    midevil bowievil wrote:


    I didn’t know a PW could ref a PW game. ??? So we had a 6th grade PWA reffing his buddies PWB game. That’s weird to me.


    There is no hard rule that says they can’t. USA Hockey recommends they do not, but with the shortage of officials, some areas don’t have a choice. They also should be recommended that they are ready to do a higher level by an experienced official/trainer. My son is a 1st year Bantam and in his 2nd year of officiating, he has been recommended to be ready for Bantams but fortunately we are not that desperate yet. Plus he is one of the smaller Bantams anyway.

    #165042 Quote
    midevil bowievilmidevil bowievil
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    So what is the rule on penalty shot from covering puck in crease by defending skater?

    I know you can’t cover or pick it up but can a defender push the puck with his glove?

    We had a situation yesterday in a Bantam game.

    #165043 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    midevil bowievil wrote:


    So what is the rule on penalty shot from covering puck in crease by defending skater?

    I know you can’t cover or pick it up but can a defender push the puck with his glove?

    We had a situation yesterday in a Bantam game.

    Not idea on specifics of the USA Hockey rule…

    Generally speaking, Defender can push the puck with anything, glove included. It’s the covering of the puck that becomes a problem. A defender could dive in and punch the puck out of the crease with their glove no problem.

    #165044 Quote
    midevil bowievilmidevil bowievil
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    Ya, that’s what I thought. I wasn’t positive so all I yelled was “he never covered it!”.

    I was watching in the corner, side where the puck was and never lost sight of it, it was pushed out of the crease. Ref races in and calls for penalty shot. It was overtime, penalty shot good, we lose.

    :ddown:

    #165045 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    midevil bowievil wrote:


    Ya, that’s what I thought. I wasn’t positive so all I yelled was “he never covered it!”.

    I was watching in the corner, side where the puck was and never lost sight of it, it was pushed out of the crease. Ref races in and calls for penalty shot. It was overtime, penalty shot good, we lose.

    :ddown:

    Is that what the PS was for? Did someone intentionally dislodge the net? Seen that before, and the PS rarely gets called because not many know the rule. Last 2 minutes or OT is a PS…

    Guys make mistakes. Sometimes the bad call goes your way, sometimes it goes the other way.

    #165046 Quote
    TiggsyTiggsy
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    Question for the all the officials out there.

    Are the linesmen able to call major penalties? There was an incident in a game which I wonder about. 3 man crew working the game. One linesman saw it but the ref didn’t either see it or call anything. At the next stoppage of play which was at least 2 minutes later or more, the officials huddled and looks like the linesman actually talked the ref into making the call. And it was decided to be a major penalty so our guy got suspended for something the ref never saw. Is this acceptable to happen? I hear that our coach took the livebarn clip to the district and got some high ranking administrator to admit it should not have been a major, but he still enforced the suspension.

    And to top it all off, due to all this ref discussion the refs ended the game with 5 minutes left shortly after we scored to get within one and had momentum. That one hurt especially since we were the last ice time of the night and the delay was strictly from the refs, but I get it. Rules are rules. Never seen it enforced this harshly. One of our assistant coaches went ballistic and got a suspension for abuse of officials and the end of the game. I was working the score table and the ref was trying to explain himself to us. I wanted just tell him that we weren’t the ones arguing with him so he didn’t need to justify himself to us but no one else would listen to him after that game.

    #165047 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    Tiggsy wrote:


    Question for the all the officials out there.

    Are the linesmen able to call major penalties? There was an incident in a game which I wonder about. 3 man crew working the game. One linesman saw it but the ref didn’t either see it or call anything. At the next stoppage of play which was at least 2 minutes later or more, the officials huddled and looks like the linesman actually talked the ref into making the call. And it was decided to be a major penalty so our guy got suspended for something the ref never saw. Is this acceptable to happen? I hear that our coach took the livebarn clip to the district and got some high ranking administrator to admit it should not have been a major, but he still enforced the suspension.

    And to top it all off, due to all this ref discussion the refs ended the game with 5 minutes left shortly after we scored to get within one and had momentum. That one hurt especially since we were the last ice time of the night and the delay was strictly from the refs, but I get it. Rules are rules. Never seen it enforced this harshly. One of our assistant coaches went ballistic and got a suspension for abuse of officials and the end of the game. I was working the score table and the ref was trying to explain himself to us. I wanted just tell him that we weren’t the ones arguing with him so he didn’t need to justify himself to us but no one else would listen to him after that game.

    A Linesman absolutely can call major penalties. Especially in the 1 referee, 2 linesman system. Nobody can see everything that goes on, even in the 4 man system. They can report what they saw to the referee at the next stoppage. There are often times where 2 guys are d*%king around behind play, and the ref has to follow play up the ice so the back linesman watches them behind play. If a guys spears someone, but the ref didn’t see it, would you rather that not be called? A Linesman can also call some minor penalties as well – Too Many Players, Puck out of play (some levels), etc. The officials are the 3rd team and need to work together.

    The referee was likely just trying to talk to someone at the scorers table. There is nothing worse than trying to explain a complex situation to a coach and getting interrupted 37 times all the while the assistant coach(es) are screaming at you and you cannot even finish your explanation. At the scorers table he may have just been trying to get his thoughts out loud and be heard. Sometimes you’re just trying to say all the steps out loud to make sure you are following proper protocol, hearing yourself say it is sometimes better than just running through it in your head.

    People get upset when officials don’t get together to discuss a situation, and then they also get upset when they do get together to discuss a situation… So which way do people want it? If an assistant coach went ballistic, they probably deserve to sit out for a game. Officials talk to captains and head coaches generally. They don’t need a bunch of outside noise from assistant coaches. It is uncalled for at the youth level quite honestly. If an official went ballistic at a coach, you can bet your mortgage they’d be hearing about it and facing consequences. Communication is a 2-way street.

    I know none of the specifics of your particular situation. Regardless, officials make mistakes its going to happen. Coaches and players make just as many. Its life, and its sports. I have met officials who officiate for the wrong reasons, but they rarely make it far and/or for very long. I have never met an official who goes looking for ways to get kids suspended. NHL officials make a living doing it, and still make the occasional mistake. Youth officials who work other jobs, and often are newer to the game/job… Yeah… There is going to be some mistakes.

    RE; still enforcing the suspension. There is already a shortage of officials. If you start overturning every officials decision for penalties, you’re going to get even more quit. Blame USA Hockey and MN Hockey for making so many things automatic suspensions now. Give officials some leeway to call the game rather than trying to make everything black and white.

    There are specific circumstances where officials can just “end a game.” Did curfew time run out? Unsafe playing conditions, refusal to put players on the ice, ejection of all adults on one of the benches, forfeiture… You cannot decide to just end a game.

    EDIT: Sorry, not trying to be a jerk. Don’t take it personally. Just trying to offer some opposite perspective.

    #165048 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    Tiggsy wrote:


    Question for the all the officials out there.

    Are the linesmen able to call major penalties? There was an incident in a game which I wonder about. 3 man crew working the game. One linesman saw it but the ref didn’t either see it or call anything. At the next stoppage of play which was at least 2 minutes later or more, the officials huddled and looks like the linesman actually talked the ref into making the call. And it was decided to be a major penalty so our guy got suspended for something the ref never saw. Is this acceptable to happen? I hear that our coach took the livebarn clip to the district and got some high ranking administrator to admit it should not have been a major, but he still enforced the suspension.

    And to top it all off, due to all this ref discussion the refs ended the game with 5 minutes left shortly after we scored to get within one and had momentum. That one hurt especially since we were the last ice time of the night and the delay was strictly from the refs, but I get it. Rules are rules. Never seen it enforced this harshly. One of our assistant coaches went ballistic and got a suspension for abuse of officials and the end of the game. I was working the score table and the ref was trying to explain himself to us. I wanted just tell him that we weren’t the ones arguing with him so he didn’t need to justify himself to us but no one else would listen to him after that game.

    A Linesman absolutely can call major penalties. Especially in the 1 referee, 2 linesman system. Nobody can see everything that goes on, even in the 4 man system. They can report what they saw to the referee at the next stoppage. There are often times where 2 guys are d*%king around behind play, and the ref has to follow play up the ice so the back linesman watches them behind play. If a guys spears someone, but the ref didn’t see it, would you rather that not be called? A Linesman can also call some minor penalties as well – Too Many Players, Puck out of play (some levels), etc. The officials are the 3rd team and need to work together.

    The referee was likely just trying to talk to someone at the scorers table. There is nothing worse than trying to explain a complex situation to a coach and getting interrupted 37 times all the while the assistant coach(es) are screaming at you and you cannot even finish your explanation. At the scorers table he may have just been trying to get his thoughts out loud and be heard. Sometimes you’re just trying to say all the steps out loud to make sure you are following proper protocol, hearing yourself say it is sometimes better than just running through it in your head.

    People get upset when officials don’t get together to discuss a situation, and then they also get upset when they do get together to discuss a situation… So which way do people want it? If an assistant coach went ballistic, they probably deserve to sit out for a game. Officials talk to captains and head coaches generally. They don’t need a bunch of outside noise from assistant coaches. It is uncalled for at the youth level quite honestly. If an official went ballistic at a coach, you can bet your mortgage they’d be hearing about it and facing consequences. Communication is a 2-way street.

    I know none of the specifics of your particular situation. Regardless, officials make mistakes its going to happen. Coaches and players make just as many. Its life, and its sports. I have met officials who officiate for the wrong reasons, but they rarely make it far and/or for very long. I have never met an official who goes looking for ways to get kids suspended. NHL officials make a living doing it, and still make the occasional mistake. Youth officials who work other jobs, and often are newer to the game/job… Yeah… There is going to be some mistakes.

    RE; still enforcing the suspension. There is already a shortage of officials. If you start overturning every officials decision for penalties, you’re going to get even more quit. Blame USA Hockey and MN Hockey for making so many things automatic suspensions now. Give officials some leeway to call the game rather than trying to make everything black and white.

    There are specific circumstances where officials can just “end a game.” Did curfew time run out? Unsafe playing conditions, refusal to put players on the ice, ejection of all adults on one of the benches, forfeiture… You cannot decide to just end a game.

    EDIT: Sorry, not trying to be a jerk. Don’t take it personally. Just trying to offer some opposite perspective.


    Not sure if there will EVER be a better explanation of how referees view things on the ice than this. I coached for 8 years. Always said I wanted to officiate and this year I did.

    All coaches should have to officiate at least a half of season before they can coach a team.

    #165049 Quote
    Chill KesselChill Kessel
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    I coached hockey for many years. My first year i was on the refs constantly. The next summer I umpired baseball games. My next season of hockey i left the refs alone.

    #165050 Quote
    IdontknowIdontknow
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    Chill Kessel wrote:


    I coached hockey for many years. My first year i was on the refs constantly. The next summer I umpired baseball games. My next season of hockey i left the refs alone.

    I had to emergency ref a couple soccer games back in the day (was a high school coach and had games where a ref didn’t show up). I was never trained in reffing but that was an eye opening experience as to how difficult some calls are to make.

    #165051 Quote
    TiggsyTiggsy
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    Tiggsy wrote:


    Question for the all the officials out there.

    Are the linesmen able to call major penalties? There was an incident in a game which I wonder about. 3 man crew working the game. One linesman saw it but the ref didn’t either see it or call anything. At the next stoppage of play which was at least 2 minutes later or more, the officials huddled and looks like the linesman actually talked the ref into making the call. And it was decided to be a major penalty so our guy got suspended for something the ref never saw. Is this acceptable to happen? I hear that our coach took the livebarn clip to the district and got some high ranking administrator to admit it should not have been a major, but he still enforced the suspension.

    And to top it all off, due to all this ref discussion the refs ended the game with 5 minutes left shortly after we scored to get within one and had momentum. That one hurt especially since we were the last ice time of the night and the delay was strictly from the refs, but I get it. Rules are rules. Never seen it enforced this harshly. One of our assistant coaches went ballistic and got a suspension for abuse of officials and the end of the game. I was working the score table and the ref was trying to explain himself to us. I wanted just tell him that we weren’t the ones arguing with him so he didn’t need to justify himself to us but no one else would listen to him after that game.

    A Linesman absolutely can call major penalties. Especially in the 1 referee, 2 linesman system. Nobody can see everything that goes on, even in the 4 man system. They can report what they saw to the referee at the next stoppage. There are often times where 2 guys are d*%king around behind play, and the ref has to follow play up the ice so the back linesman watches them behind play. If a guys spears someone, but the ref didn’t see it, would you rather that not be called? A Linesman can also call some minor penalties as well – Too Many Players, Puck out of play (some levels), etc. The officials are the 3rd team and need to work together.

    The referee was likely just trying to talk to someone at the scorers table. There is nothing worse than trying to explain a complex situation to a coach and getting interrupted 37 times all the while the assistant coach(es) are screaming at you and you cannot even finish your explanation. At the scorers table he may have just been trying to get his thoughts out loud and be heard. Sometimes you’re just trying to say all the steps out loud to make sure you are following proper protocol, hearing yourself say it is sometimes better than just running through it in your head.

    People get upset when officials don’t get together to discuss a situation, and then they also get upset when they do get together to discuss a situation… So which way do people want it? If an assistant coach went ballistic, they probably deserve to sit out for a game. Officials talk to captains and head coaches generally. They don’t need a bunch of outside noise from assistant coaches. It is uncalled for at the youth level quite honestly. If an official went ballistic at a coach, you can bet your mortgage they’d be hearing about it and facing consequences. Communication is a 2-way street.

    I know none of the specifics of your particular situation. Regardless, officials make mistakes its going to happen. Coaches and players make just as many. Its life, and its sports. I have met officials who officiate for the wrong reasons, but they rarely make it far and/or for very long. I have never met an official who goes looking for ways to get kids suspended. NHL officials make a living doing it, and still make the occasional mistake. Youth officials who work other jobs, and often are newer to the game/job… Yeah… There is going to be some mistakes.

    RE; still enforcing the suspension. There is already a shortage of officials. If you start overturning every officials decision for penalties, you’re going to get even more quit. Blame USA Hockey and MN Hockey for making so many things automatic suspensions now. Give officials some leeway to call the game rather than trying to make everything black and white.

    There are specific circumstances where officials can just “end a game.” Did curfew time run out? Unsafe playing conditions, refusal to put players on the ice, ejection of all adults on one of the benches, forfeiture… You cannot decide to just end a game.

    EDIT: Sorry, not trying to be a jerk. Don’t take it personally. Just trying to offer some opposite perspective.

    Thanks for the info. Don’t worry I’m not taking it personally because I wasn’t doing anything other than just being there. :lol:

    Anyways, one follow up. Should the linesman have blown his whistle right away for the penalty or did he do it the right way by waiting for the stoppage to discuss with the ref? It was definitely a penalty so the only argument was if it should be a major.

    The coach did get a suspension for official abuse at the end of the game along with one other player who decided to join into the argument.

    Ending the game explanation was curfew time. That one was hard to take because of the extended time they took to straighten out the penalties. Plus being the last ice of the day and how it was less than a minute after a goal to close the gap. Some rinks have countdown curfew clocks or buzzers but this one didn’t so it came out of nowhere to everyone. Plus with everyone already upset at the refs about the major, this didn’t help things. 2 games later we were up in the game late and the other team scored to tie the game, but it was after the time limit. The parents chat lit up saying we won that game because the game should have ended before the goal was scored. Which technically was true according to the clock. I think this was the point several players and parents checked out for the year. I don’t know what to make of it. So just waiting for a tough season to end an looking ahead to the next one. :good2:

    #165052 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    Tiggsy wrote:


    Thanks for the info. Don’t worry I’m not taking it personally because I wasn’t doing anything other than just being there. :lol:

    Anyways, one follow up. Should the linesman have blown his whistle right away for the penalty or did he do it the right way by waiting for the stoppage to discuss with the ref? It was definitely a penalty so the only argument was if it should be a major.

    The coach did get a suspension for official abuse at the end of the game along with one other player who decided to join into the argument.

    Ending the game explanation was curfew time. That one was hard to take because of the extended time they took to straighten out the penalties. Plus being the last ice of the day and how it was less than a minute after a goal to close the gap. Some rinks have countdown curfew clocks or buzzers but this one didn’t so it came out of nowhere to everyone. Plus with everyone already upset at the refs about the major, this didn’t help things. 2 games later we were up in the game late and the other team scored to tie the game, but it was after the time limit. The parents chat lit up saying we won that game because the game should have ended before the goal was scored. Which technically was true according to the clock. I think this was the point several players and parents checked out for the year. I don’t know what to make of it. So just waiting for a tough season to end an looking ahead to the next one. :good2:

    If a linesman sees a major penalty they are supposed to wait until the next stoppage to report it to the referee, and the referee would then asses the penalty (or deal with a possibly mutiny if they choose not to… haha). HOWEVER, there are circumstances where an immediate whistle is warranted. Is somebody hurt and in danger if play continues? or is someone about to be hurt due to the actions of the player who has a delayed penalty against them? IE is a guy on top of a defenseless player throwing punches? Is a player, who is already getting a major, lining up a player to crosscheck them in the head, or bury them into the boards? Then there are scenarios where the Linesman can and should stop play. You cannot stop play for potential penalties, but if you’ve already got one on delay and there is another obvious and imminent one coming, shut down play. You know the situations that require immediate whistles when you see them. If it was a major penalty, and nothing happened subsequently, then the linesman was correct in waiting until the next stoppage to report what they saw to the referee.

    Just as a for instance; too many players on the ice. Technically you are not supposed to shut down play until the team with too many players gains possession and control, and a linesman is not permitted to put their arm up for a delayed penalty. So if you wait too long, often times the team is back to the correct number of players on the ice and the shouting beings. Linesman will generally shut play down for too many players provided the non-offending team isn’t rushing up the ice or something. 99% of the time they will accept the “inadvertent” whistle because they are about to go on the powerplay. It is much easier to catch them in the act; “I need one of these 6/7 players right here to serve your too many players penalty,” as compared to “coach, 23 seconds ago, you had 6 players on the ice and I need one of them, but I don’t have numbers for 3 of the players who were out here then.”

    #165053 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Well the Fargo Squirt International tournaments are over. In the last 3 weekends I officiated 30 games total (some guys did over 30 just this past weekend :shock: )

    Out of all of those games, I only had issues with parents/coaches in 3 games (3 coaches and 1 parent) and they were all from Grand Forks, ND and they were Squirt B and B1 teams. Not one single issue with Squirt A coaches/parents. Pro Tip: When a kids falls down to the ice at that level (or any level really) it isn’t automatically a penalty.

    I officiated a team from Tampa Bay 2 weekends ago and that game happened during a blizzard. Some of the better conversation with coaches who were just beside themselves that we live and play here and I think they each had about 4 Hot Hands packets in each pocket!

    This past weekend I officiated a Carolina Jr Hurricanes team where Justin Williams was the coach (his daughter played) and Rod Brind’Amour coaches as well, his son played but he wasn’t there this weekend. Justin Williams made a tweet about youth players carrying their own bags that sparked some outrage.

    Overall, the kids were really neat and polite, spent time chatting with as many as I could, explaining rules and trading some referee pins with them.

    #165054 Quote
    VegoeVegoe
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    This past weekend I officiated a Carolina Jr Hurricanes team where Justin Williams was the coach (his daughter played) and Rod Brind’Amour coaches as well, his son played but he wasn’t there this weekend. Justin Williams made a tweet about youth players carrying their own bags that sparked some outrage.

    You’re going to have a team of 10-year-olds ‘selects’ fly from Carolina to Colorado, Texas, Ilinois, New Jersey, Tennessee, Massachusetts, Virgina, Fargo, etc. for hockey tournaments, but then say a parent who helps a kid with their bag is doing it wrong.

    https://www.carolinajuniorhurricanes.org/programguide2021

    #165055 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    Vegoe wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    This past weekend I officiated a Carolina Jr Hurricanes team where Justin Williams was the coach (his daughter played) and Rod Brind’Amour coaches as well, his son played but he wasn’t there this weekend. Justin Williams made a tweet about youth players carrying their own bags that sparked some outrage.

    You’re going to have a team of 10-year-olds ‘selects’ fly from Carolina to Colorado, Texas, Ilinois, New Jersey, Tennessee, Massachusetts, Virgina, Fargo, etc. for hockey tournaments, but then say a parent who helps a kid with their bag is doing it wrong.

    https://www.carolinajuniorhurricanes.org/programguide2021


    They only won 1 game out of 5 too, their last one of the weekend.

    #165056 Quote
    gatorgator
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    #165057 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    gator wrote:


    $1,000 fine for unruly fans?!?!?!

    https://fox9.com/news/minnesota-lawmakers-say-1000-fine-will-get-unruly-youth-sports-fans-under-control


    I see zero arguments against this.

    There is a difference between yelling something from the stands during a play and screaming non-stop/throwing objects/following officials.

    I was given the finger from a fan this year in a game they were winning by a decent margin because her husband was swearing at my partner (late game and he was clearly drunk) I had warned him twice and finally tossed him. Got the bird from the wife and tossed her too. The coach was tossed that game along with another parents.

    The entire team of parents and coaching staff had to have a meeting with the tournament director that next morning before anyone was allowed back in the arena.

    #165058 Quote
    Bar downBar down
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    gator wrote:


    $1,000 fine for unruly fans?!?!?!

    https://fox9.com/news/minnesota-lawmakers-say-1000-fine-will-get-unruly-youth-sports-fans-under-control


    I see zero arguments against this.

    There is a difference between yelling something from the stands during a play and screaming non-stop/throwing objects/following officials.

    I was given the finger from a fan this year in a game they were winning by a decent margin because her husband was swearing at my partner (late game and he was clearly drunk) I had warned him twice and finally tossed him. Got the bird from the wife and tossed her too. The coach was tossed that game along with another parents.

    The entire team of parents and coaching staff had to have a meeting with the tournament director that next morning before anyone was allowed back in the arena.


    With 3 boys playing hockey and baseball (all are done playing), I have seen my share of out of control parents, and near fist fights. I say suspend the players for conduct or their parents. Maybe the parents will grow up.

    #165059 Quote
    Chill KesselChill Kessel
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    I am most definitely not in favor of punishing a kid for the actions of their parents.

    #165060 Quote
    trixR4kidstrixR4kids
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    Chill Kessel wrote:


    I am most definitely not in favor of punishing a kid for the actions of their parents.

    Reminds me of when teachers would punish the entire class because of one rock head. It’s a dumb way to deal with the problem.

    #165061 Quote
    J22J22
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    Chill Kessel wrote:


    I am most definitely not in favor of punishing a kid for the actions of their parents.

    It’s a shitty deal for the kid, but it would most likely be the quickest way to fix the problem.

    #165062 Quote
    Bar downBar down
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    trixR4kids wrote:


    Chill Kessel wrote:


    I am most definitely not in favor of punishing a kid for the actions of their parents.

    Reminds me of when teachers would punish the entire class because of one rock head. It’s a dumb way to deal with the problem.


    I have no problem with parent shaming.

    #165063 Quote
    BetterDeadThenRedBetterDeadThenRed
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    Bar down wrote:


    trixR4kids wrote:


    Chill Kessel wrote:


    I am most definitely not in favor of punishing a kid for the actions of their parents.

    Reminds me of when teachers would punish the entire class because of one rock head. It’s a dumb way to deal with the problem.


    I have no problem with parent shaming.

    I have no problem with “parent shaming either” but I would suggest a bench minor for unruly parent behavior. That will get the coach more involved and likely the association barring some of these idiots. I actually asked the ref to toss a parent this year because I was sick of listening to them.

    #165021 Quote
    HockeyBumHockeyBum
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    Any refs here know when USA Hockey starts offering the officiating seminars? April is one of the few slow(er) months when I have more free time than usual. I was hoping to get this done before things start getting busy again.

    #165020 Quote
    Goldy GuyGoldy Guy
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    I would check USAhockey.com. You can look at the schedule of trainings without having to login.

    #165019 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    HockeyBum wrote:


    Any refs here know when USA Hockey starts offering the officiating seminars? April is one of the few slow(er) months when I have more free time than usual. I was hoping to get this done before things start getting busy again.

    Because registration to good through November 1st of the following year, officiating seminars, in the past at least, really didn’t start until Mid August with most of them occurring Mid- September through Mid October. I really don’t think you’ll see much of anything until then. In fact I don’t think you’ll even see a schedule until roughly June.

    #165018 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    HockeyBum wrote:


    Any refs here know when USA Hockey starts offering the officiating seminars? April is one of the few slow(er) months when I have more free time than usual. I was hoping to get this done before things start getting busy again.

    Because registration to good through November 1st of the following year, officiating seminars, in the past at least, really didn’t start until Mid August with most of them occurring Mid- September through Mid October. I really don’t think you’ll see much of anything until then. In fact I don’t think you’ll even see a schedule until roughly June.


    Yeah we had some questions about kids getting certified for spring/summer hockey and this is what our State Director said as well.

    #165017 Quote
    fightclub30fightclub30
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    MNGophers29 wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    HockeyBum wrote:


    Any refs here know when USA Hockey starts offering the officiating seminars? April is one of the few slow(er) months when I have more free time than usual. I was hoping to get this done before things start getting busy again.

    Because registration to good through November 1st of the following year, officiating seminars, in the past at least, really didn’t start until Mid August with most of them occurring Mid- September through Mid October. I really don’t think you’ll see much of anything until then. In fact I don’t think you’ll even see a schedule until roughly June.


    Yeah we had some questions about kids getting certified for spring/summer hockey and this is what our State Director said as well.

    Very few leagues are USA Hockey sanctioned. So not only is it not a requirement, you can get in (a very small amount of) trouble for wearing your USA Hockey Crest at a non-sanctioned event… Almost all summer hockey (aka Checkbook hockey) is on an island and unsanctioned.

    If they’re interested, see if the scheduler is okay with sticking a mentor with them or something. But if they have never done it before, then I do suggest the seminar first.

    #165016 Quote
    MNGophers29MNGophers29
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    fightclub30 wrote:


    MNGophers29 wrote:


    fightclub30 wrote:


    HockeyBum wrote:


    Any refs here know when USA Hockey starts offering the officiating seminars? April is one of the few slow(er) months when I have more free time than usual. I was hoping to get this done before things start getting busy again.

    Because registration to good through November 1st of the following year, officiating seminars, in the past at least, really didn’t start until Mid August with most of them occurring Mid- September through Mid October. I really don’t think you’ll see much of anything until then. In fact I don’t think you’ll even see a schedule until roughly June.


    Yeah we had some questions about kids getting certified for spring/summer hockey and this is what our State Director said as well.

    Very few leagues are USA Hockey sanctioned. So not only is it not a requirement, you can get in (a very small amount of) trouble for wearing your USA Hockey Crest at a non-sanctioned event… Almost all summer hockey (aka Checkbook hockey) is on an island and unsanctioned.

    If they’re interested, see if the scheduler is okay with sticking a mentor with them or something. But if they have never done it before, then I do suggest the seminar first.


    No I get that, but it was parents who were asking for their kids and wanted the seminars before allowing their kids to officiate.

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